Guest biodegraded Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 In need of some urgent help. My 53 special has been at the shop getting a new headliner put in for the last week. When I came to pick it up, the brakes are completely dead. Pedal goes straight to the floor with no resistance. I don't have access to my manuals and have yet to even touch the brakes myself. Could someone give me some diagnosing steps? Or maybe I just have to tow it to a shop at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Sounds like the fluid leaked out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest biodegraded Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Yes. I think that's right. How do I bleed the brakes? I'm lost without a manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Do a visual check to see if any fluid dripping on the inside of the tires or back plates to determine if its a wheel cylinder leaking. Have you checked the master cylinder to see if its empty of fluid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 well you need to find the leak before you can bleed brakes. I believe your master cylinder is under the driver's floorboard. I would put the car in the garage, get all 4 wheels off, up on jack stands, put fluid in the master, pump the brakes and find the leak.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) Good advice so far. Get the cap off the master cylinder and see if it is low or empty. Look for leaks. If you dont see any big obvious leaks, bleed it. Harbor freight has vacuum bleeders cheap. Get one. Hook up the little jar to the pump, paying attention to which port is which. It is marked. Suck any remaining fluid out of the master cylinder. Get at least one big bottle of brake fluid, maybe two. Fill the master cylinder with clean new brake fluid. Open a bleeder and hook the hose to it. Start with the farthest one from the master cylinder (right rear). Suck some fluid through. Have an assistant keep dumping fresh new brake fluid in the master cylinder as it goes down.. Do not under any conditions let the master cylinder get empty. Keep sucking until you see clean fluid in the hose. Close the bleeder. Repeat for the other three bleeders, moving closer to the master cylinder as you go. Throughout this process do not let the jar on the bleeder get all the way full. You will have to keep emptying it. Don't let it tip over either (this part is fiddly). If you fail at either of these your cheapie pump will be full of brake fluid. This is not the end of the world, but it makes a mess. If a bleeder wont bleed it may be plugged. Take it out and scrutinize it. The hole goes in from the side at one and, and out the top at the other end (the hole goes around a corner). Tiny drill bits and or stiff wire from a mig welder or a wire brush can help you get the holes open. Once unplugged, put it back in and try again. BRAKE FLUID REMOVES PAINT! Don't get any on the paint. If you do clean it up immediately with water. After you are done and everything is closed clean up any brake fluid mess with water. Avoid the master cylinder lid with the water though, as it is probably vented, and you do NOT want any water getting in the system. The brake fluid chemically attracts the water! Be careful not to get the water too close to the lid, or to any open bleeders. Brake fluid that is contaminated with water is corrosive, and eats the cylinder bores. You will see plenty of this nastiness come out when you bleed it. Ok, so you have it full of clean fluid now. Are there any obvious leaks? If there are fix the leaks now, do not attempt to drive it. No obvious leaks? Bleed once more, this time by hand. Have a friend pump up the pedal a few times, and hold. DO NOT PUSH THE PEDAL TO THE FLOOR WHEN YOU ARE PUMPING, DO YOUR BEST TO NOT PUSH IT DOWN ANY FURTHER DOWN THAN IT WAS GOING WHEN IT WAS WORKING RIGHT. Hold it in the down (brakes on) position, open the farthest away bleeder for just a tiny quick squirt and close it. You can use your hose and bleed jar to keep the mess under control. The pedal will go down when you open it. I hope your friend on the pedal is paying attention. Repeat this 2 or 3 times, or until you have fluid but don't hear any air coming out. Continue this process for the other 3 bleeders, moving closer to the master cylinder as you go. You should have a pedal now. Look it over again for leaks. If there are any, fix before attempting to drive. If you have a spongy pedal, you didnt get all the air out. If you have a good pedal, but it slowly sinks, double check for leaks. Sinking pedal with no leaks? The master cylinder is bad. The reason for not taking the pedal all the way to the floor is if you push the pedal farther than it ever goes, you might be dragging the seals across a bunch of scaly rust, potentially tearing them. If the master cylinder is brand new, you don't need to consider this. Good luck. Let us know what happens. Edited September 27, 2017 by Bloo .. (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I believe the master cyl is under the hood, just in front of the cowl, on the driver side. If it checks to be full, check for the pedal linkage to be unhooked? Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest biodegraded Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Thanks for all the great info. And fast! I checked the master cylinder and it was empty. Couldn't find any signs of leaking either from master cylinder or near drums. Linkage was working OK. So I filled up the cylinder and tried pumping the pedal. Pumped many times and nothing improved. Tried to remove the cylinder cap and see if I could see fluid moving while breaks were pumped but it was hard to tell. Didn't see any leaks around master cylinder. Pumped some more and it got a little mushy pressure for one or two pumps and then went back to nothing. That's when I discovered the leak from one of the lines near the back on the driver's side. Must have had a pin hole that leaked all the fluid out then blew out bigger when I was pumping the pedal. I'm nervous fixing the brakes myself so I'm having it towed to my mechanic to have all the brake lines inspected and replaced if necessary. If he discovers that the master cylinder is also bad, are there rebuilt units available? Thanks again everyone for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Over time, the brake fluid will absorb a certain amount of moisture naturally, and you're supposed to bleed them every couple years. If you don't, the water in the lines will rust the lines from the inside out. If you haven't done a full brake inspection, now would be the time. Make sure your rubber hoses at the front aren't brittle and have your mechanic check the wheel cylinders for wear or cracking of the cups. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Don't forget the rubber line going to the rear axle also. I would suggest replacing all three rubber lines, unless you know they were replaced in the last 20 years.... I live in the rusty east, so every car gets all new brake lines and hoses. Safety first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 There are master cylinder rebuild kits available from Bob's Automobilia and CARS, Inc. The master cylinder can usually be easily rebuilt, unless it has been sitting unused for many years with moisture in it, which would pit the cast iron cylinder. Rebuild kit is around $25 or $30. Pete Phillips, BCA #7338 Leonard, TExas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 64 year old brake system. Wheel cylinders gummy and pitted from rust, ditto the master, rubber lines checked and cracked, steel lines rusty and pitted both inside and out. Look at your brake failure while sitting as a gift from the Brake Gods. They could have given you the failure while trying to stop for a person or solid object. Have your mechanic replace all the lines, hoses, and wheel cylinders. Have the master sleeved and rebuilt. Have the system filled with DOT 5 fluid. Thank the Brake Gods for the warning. Sleep well at night............................................. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 14 hours ago, Bhigdog said: 64 year old brake system. Wheel cylinders gummy and pitted from rust, ditto the master, rubber lines checked and cracked, steel lines rusty and pitted both inside and out. Look at your brake failure while sitting as a gift from the Brake Gods. They could have given you the failure while trying to stop for a person or solid object. Have your mechanic replace all the lines, hoses, and wheel cylinders. Have the master sleeved and rebuilt. Have the system filled with DOT 5 fluid. Thank the Brake Gods for the warning. Sleep well at night............................................. I`m with Bob, don`t do a "patch" job, do the complete system.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Another good solution is to have the cylinders sleeved with stainless. The will never rust again. A bit more expensive than new cylinders, but you'll never have a problem again. By all means go to DOT 5 fluid - doesnt absorb water 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Is DOT5 compatible with others or... Should the whole system need to be flushed and then use DOT5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 My understanding is that DOT 5 is not compatible with the either DOT 3 or 4. If you intend to change the brake fluid from one to the other, while you're doing a complete rebuild would be the time to do it. Keith 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 You will get a million answers whether it is "compatible" or not, so this needs some clarification. DOT5 is a whole different chemical compound. It is advertised as "compatible", which it technically is, because if you use it in a system with conventional brake fluid, it will work. I do NOT suggest you do it however. DOT5 will not mix with the other fluid. They will separate.. WIll it work? Yes, but the conventional fluid in the system will continue to soak up water, turn acidic, and eat up your cylinders. Since the wet fluid is still in there, you don't get the high boiling point of the DOT5 fluid either. DOT5 is a pain to bleed too. You get all the disadvantages and none of the advantages. In my opinion only put DOT5 in if everything is clean and new. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiKi5156B Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 The fact is, if you’re nervous about doing the brakes, you SHOULD take it to a mechanic. Otherwise you will never have peace of mind when driving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 9/27/2017 at 10:04 PM, biodegraded said: Thanks for all the great info. And fast! I checked the master cylinder and it was empty. Couldn't find any signs of leaking either from master cylinder or near drums. Linkage was working OK. So I filled up the cylinder and tried pumping the pedal. Pumped many times and nothing improved. Tried to remove the cylinder cap and see if I could see fluid moving while breaks were pumped but it was hard to tell. Didn't see any leaks around master cylinder. Pumped some more and it got a little mushy pressure for one or two pumps and then went back to nothing. That's when I discovered the leak from one of the lines near the back on the driver's side. Must have had a pin hole that leaked all the fluid out then blew out bigger when I was pumping the pedal. I'm nervous fixing the brakes myself so I'm having it towed to my mechanic to have all the brake lines inspected and replaced if necessary. If he discovers that the master cylinder is also bad, are there rebuilt units available? Thanks again everyone for the help. Anything to follow up with here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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