Guest Jesse49 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Hello everyone I'm new to the group. Just brought my father's 1949 Desoto custom home, not to sure if I should attempt to restore the original engine. The car ran when he parked it about 10yrs ago, or should I just invest on 318 swap? Ps. The car only holds sentimental value and no plans on selling it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I have put several of those engines back in commission, have never had one refuse to run yet. In addition to being durable and reliable, they are also simple and easy to rebuild and all parts are available. An acquaintance recently had a full rebuild done on one for her 41 Dodge and it only cost $3000. I doubt you could have even a second hand, junkyard 318 installed for that. I hope it was not left sitting with the air cleaner off? Do you have the original air cleaner? If it was mine I would start by checking if the gas has gone bad, checking the oil, clean around the spark plugs with an air hose, remove the plugs and squirt a little oil into the cylinders then see if it will turn over, first by hand then on the starter. If it will turn over and has compression it will run. There are other details to it. But I won't go into that until you know if it will turn over. Don't go tearing things apart, don't change or remove anything unless you have to. I always start with the theory that it ran when parked and will run again. If you tear everything up there is no way to tell why it won't start. You have to start from scratch and redo EVERYTHING. You want to avoid that by checking things one at a time in a systematic way. 2 other things every 49 DeSoto owner should know. Your car has a 6 volt POSITIVE ground electrical system. And left hand thread wheel bolts on the left side. The bolts should be marked L and R just in case they have been changed. In conclusion that is a good looking car. It looks like it has been cared for and stored inside. It should be possible to put it back in commission with a little work. 9 chances out of 10, the engine needs nothing but a little cleaning and adjusting. Edited July 13, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Nice looking car, and very nice connection to your Dad. Rusty is right on all counts -- you will do well to heed his advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 To the best of my knowledge, the reason you don't see many 318 swaps is the engine compartment is narrow and you have to cut the crap out of everything to get it in. Back in the day, v8 swaps in these cars always seemed to be smallblock Fords. I hear it fits a lot better. I agree with Rusty. You should keep the flathead 6. What does it have for a transmission? Fluid drive? There are quite a few of those still running that have never been overhauled. Good luck with your project and welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jesse49 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I don't have the air clear it was under a carport, and I found out the hard way when I was changing the tires. Do you have any links for parts I would appreciate. My neighbor was telling I should give the car a tune up and see if the engine turns over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I would start by taking the spark plugs out and squirting a little diesel, marvel mystery oil, or liquid wrench into the spark plug holes. The holes are over the valves, so you need to get the oil over to the other side of the motor where the pistons are. Liquid wrench might be the easiest because it has that little hose. Don't drop the hose in. Let it sit for a couple of days, and then try to turn it over with a wrench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jesse49 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, Bloo said: To the best of my knowledge, the reason you don't see many 318 swaps is the engine compartment is narrow and you have to cut the crap out of everything to get it in. Back in the day, v8 swaps in these cars always seemed to be smallblock Fords. I hear it fits a lot better. I agree with Rusty. You should keep the flathead 6. What does it have for a transmission? Fluid drive? There are quite a few of those still running that have never been overhauled. Good luck with your project and welcome! I'm not sure what transmission is on the car, from what I remember from my dad is that it's all original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Probably has Fluid Drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 If I was there I would have it eating out of my hand in 2 hours or know the reason why. Without buying any parts, maybe a battery. If you have a 12v battery it will do for getting it going, but it should have a 6v battery. Just do the things I already said. Then clean the points and see that you have spark to the spark plugs. If it turns over, and has sparks, it should fire even if you have to pour a little gas down the carburetor. Suggest you disconnect the fuel line at the pump and connect a fresh supply of gas, from a motorboat gas tank or small gas can. Unless you know the gas in the tank has not gone bad. This is not hard to check. But after 10 years chances are the gas is bad. Do you have an air compressor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Forget about changing the engine. Learn to change spark plugs first. Have you worked on an old car before? If not do you know any old mechanics? I can talk you through it but it helps if you have some experience. If you have not worked on a car like that before PLEASE do not go getting ideas of your own, or listening to some random person. On this forum you have hundreds of years of experience to draw on. I have 50 years experience myself. We would love to see you get your car running, and driving, as easily and cheaply as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 All DeSotos that year came with a flathead six cylinder engine of 112 horsepower and Fluid Drive with semi automatic transmission. They were quite an expensive, well made car. Selling against Oldsmobile, Studebaker Land Cruiser, Mercury and the smaller Buicks. I know 112HP does not sound like a lot. But the smooth running, long stroke six cylinder has plenty of power where it counts. And the transmission, one of the first efforts at an automatic, is very tough and reliable. It is trouble free, and easy to drive once you learn a few simple tricks. They were well known for being roomy, comfortable, economical and easy to drive. Many were used as taxicabs. The engine was used in millions of DeSoto and Chrysler cars and Dodge trucks, as well as industrial and marine power plants. Parts are still available and are not expensive or hard to get. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Do as Rusty says. Clean things, including the ignition. Look on this site and just see how many are : "I just tuned up my car. Changed the pionts, plugs condenser, wrires and cap - and now it wont run". It should be a lession learned. If it did run with theold stuff it will run again. A couple of my cars have ignition parts more than 30 years old and they run fine. The fuel system and brakes will jnheed attention though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) You have a real nice car there. It should not be hard to get it going. I see from your plate you are from Texas. If it was stored in dry west Texas chances are the engine has taken no harm, even sitting in a car port for 10 years with the air cleaner off. Is there any chance you can find the air cleaner? Is it in the trunk, or maybe back in the car port? Here is a report on a 1 owner, six cylinder 1951 DeSoto like yours. The original owner's experience of driving it for 24 years and 185,000 miles including trips to Death Valley and the Colorado mountains. Gives you some idea of what a car like yours is capable of. Hope you get a kick out of it, I know I did. http://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/suburban-1951.html Edited July 13, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jesse49 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, DonMicheletti said: Do as Rusty says. Clean things, including the ignition. Look on this site and just see how many are : "I just tuned up my car. Changed the pionts, plugs condenser, wrires and cap - and now it wont run". It should be a lession learned. If it did run with theold stuff it will run again. A couple of my cars have ignition parts more than 30 years old and they run fine. The fuel system and brakes will jnheed attention though. Will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 As far as parts go you can get most things you need from your local auto parts store. Look for the place the farmers go, with old gray haired or bald headed countermen. The new shiny place on the main road, manned by kids with purple hair and a snot ring won't be much help. There are specialists that have rare parts the regular stores don't have, like Andy Bernbaum . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 One thing that bothers me is the air cleaner being left off. For 2 reasons. One is rain water or dampness might have got in and frozen up your valves or pistons. It won't hurt anything if the valves are stuck, but it will stop the engine running. If the pistons are stuck it may be impossible to get it to turn over. The other danger is small objects might have fallen in the carburetor like gravel stones or nuts, bolts etc. If they get sucked into the engine they can damage valves and pistons. So I am debating whether it would be worth while to take the carb off and vacuum out the intake manifold. Maybe you could just open the throttle and choke, and look down in there with a strong light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jesse49 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said: You have a real nice car there. It should not be hard to get it going. I see from your plate you are from Texas. If it was stored in dry west Texas chances are the engine has taken no harm, even sitting in a car port for 10 years with the air cleaner off. Is there any chance you can find the air cleaner? Is it in the trunk, or maybe back in the car port? Here is a report on a 1 owner, six cylinder 1951 DeSoto like yours. The original owner's experience of driving it for 24 years and 185,000 miles including trips to Death Valley and the Colorado mountains. Gives you some idea of what a car like yours is capable of. Hope you get a kick out of it, I know I did. http://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/suburban-1951.html I do not have the air cleaner I do recall my dad was looking for one. I will go thru the engine and give it a very good tuneup. I'm not familiar with old cars but do know a old school mechanic hopefully he can steer me in the right direction. Thanks for all the insight Rusty!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 You don't need to give it a tuneup. All you need to do is oil the cylinders, get it turning over, and make sure you have sparks. You should need NO new parts. Maybe a new battery. The only thing that bothers me is the chance of debris getting into the carburetor. Other than that it is a pretty simple engine to get running. I have gotten several of them going that were off the road for up to 30 years and never had much difficulty and never had to buy any new parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, Jesse49 said: I do not have the air cleaner I do recall my dad was looking for one. I will go thru the engine and give it a very good tuneup. I'm not familiar with old cars but do know a old school mechanic hopefully he can steer me in the right direction. Thanks for all the insight Rusty!! The NICE thing about older cars (pre-electronic age) is you can actually fix them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Drain the old oil out. Remove and clean the pan , clean the oil pump pickup screen. Refill with the best oil you think you can afford. Hey , Rusty : do these cars have an oil filter ? Welcome to AACA forums , Jesse49 ! As the other guys say , heed Rusty. He has already taken you under his wing , and I have seen him walk plenty of guys through no end of everything. Particularly Chrysler products. Yeah , keep it original. How is the interior ? Looks like it will be a fun car. And don't let anyone try to tell you that visor is not cool. It is ! - Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I agree with draining the oil and cleaning the oil pan, but the pan is not easy to get off on a lot of cars with IFS because the crossmember is in the road. Not sure about the DeSoto, but if it is too hard to get off just changing the oil is a good idea. Check for water in the oil, if what comes out isn't too nasty you are probably ok. Yes they have an oil filter, you can see it in the engine photos. It may be a bypass type or a full flow type, they changed from bypass to full flow about that time. You can tell the difference by the size of the oil lines. The bypass will have oil lines the size of a pencil. The full flow will be bigger, more the size of a Sharpie. Both work equally well for all practical purposes. I would get it running first and evaluate the engine's condition. If it runs well with no bangs or knocks, and has good oil pressure and good compression go ahead and do a tuneup and an oil and filter change. But if it needs major work that must be done first. You do not tell us how many miles are on it. In fact you do not tell us much of anything. We have to guess what you need. But the normal engine life of one of those cars is about 80,000 miles. If it has 50,000 miles or less it should be in decent shape. Or it may have been rebuilt some time in the past. You don't really know what you are dealing with till you get it running, unless you want to take it to pieces and inspect all the parts. Edited July 13, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike36 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I agree with keeping it original. Before you get to involved under the hood, get a shop manual for your year and model of car. They are available on the "net". Also get a Motors Auto Repair manual that covers your year of car. Available used on the "net"also. BUY THESE, and listen to Rusty and you will be "cruzn" before long. All the help you need is available here. Get a air cleaner, and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 There is an old junkyard about an hour from my home which has several cars of this vintage still in it. I will look to see if I can find an air cleaner for you next time I'm there. If anyone has a photo of the correct unit, it would be a big help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jesse49 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 hour ago, lump said: There is an old junkyard about an hour from my home which has several cars of this vintage still in it. I will look to see if I can find an air cleaner for you next time I'm there. If anyone has a photo of the correct unit, it would be a big help. Thanks lump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Rusty if you are taking people under your wing or better yet adopting a kid I'm available if you consider a 70+ year old a kid. I come with a 38 Studebaker that needs a little help right now. Dave S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 2 hours ago, SC38DLS said: Rusty if you are taking people under your wing or better yet adopting a kid I'm available if you consider a 70+ year old a kid. I come with a 38 Studebaker that needs a little help right now. Dave S I might just take you up on this. How is the weather in Versailles in winter? Is your wife a good cook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) Did a search for 49 DeSoto engine, the air cleaner is surprisingly hard to pin down. This is supposed to be a 50 DeSoto. Can you confirm that the under the hood view matches your car? It looks the same in the pictures. This is the clearest view. The air cleaner is an oil bath type. It never wears out and never needs to be replaced. All you have to do is rinse the filter medium in cleaning solvent, and let it drip dry. Do not blow air thru it, you can make channels that let dirt in. Fill the filter base with 50 motor oil to the line and pour a little oil over the filter medium. This only takes about 1/2 a pint. The filter only needs service every 10,000 miles more or less depending on how dusty the roads are. You check it at tuneup time by taking out the filter and looking at the base, if the base is full of dirt it is time to clean it out. 50 oil can be obtained at any good parts store, they may have to order it. A quart will last 40,000 miles. Notice the support strut on the right, and the square box with wires on it. You need the support strut, some have the box and some don't. It contains a resistor and a circuit breaker that are part of the transmission controls, the wires go to the carburetor then the transmission. They all need this, some have it in one place, some in the other. If the wires are intact to the carb and coil and you can trace them to a similar box somewhere else all is good. If the wires are cut off then you will need the box, as well as the support strut and air cleaner. If you do not have the box and cannot find one it is easy enough to substitute any suitable resistor and circuit breaker. You can also see the heater which seems to be missing from your car. It is a steel box that sits in the right fender. The thing with the red hose to it. Behind it is a cardboard duct that ducts the heated air into the car. There is a squirrel cage blower in front of the rad support. Edited July 13, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Rusty, It looks like the heater is in Jesse49's car, but the cardboard duct is missing ... or am I seeing things? Nice car. Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) I think you are right. At first it looked like a rusty fender, evidently an optical illusion. The original duct was molded of papier mache. Not many have survived intact. In the picture above you can see where the duct has been patched. I have made a replacement of the heavy duty black cardboard used by upholsterers on the backs of sofas and for door panels. They probably used this type material for its sound deadening qualities. Edited July 13, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jesse49 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 14 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said: I agree with draining the oil and cleaning the oil pan, but the pan is not easy to get off on a lot of cars with IFS because the crossmember is in the road. Not sure about the DeSoto, but if it is too hard to get off just changing the oil is a good idea. Check for water in the oil, if what comes out isn't too nasty you are probably ok. Yes they have an oil filter, you can see it in the engine photos. It may be a bypass type or a full flow type, they changed from bypass to full flow about that time. You can tell the difference by the size of the oil lines. The bypass will have oil lines the size of a pencil. The full flow will be bigger, more the size of a Sharpie. Both work equally well for all practical purposes. I would get it running first and evaluate the engine's condition. If it runs well with no bangs or knocks, and has good oil pressure and good compression go ahead and do a tuneup and an oil and filter change. But if it needs major work that must be done first. You do not tell us how many miles are on it. In fact you do not tell us much of anything. We have to guess what you need. But the normal engine life of one of those cars is about 80,000 miles. If it has 50,000 miles or less it should be in decent shape. Or it may have been rebuilt some time in the past. You don't really know what you are dealing with till you get it running, unless you want to take it to pieces and inspect all the parts. The engine has 41730 miles the model # on the drivers door is 50015298 and the engine block is stamped S13-21810 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike6024 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) There are many oil-bath air filters for sale that are unidentified. Seller doesn't know what it came from. Here is an exception, seller says 1950 Desoto. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950-desoto-air-cleaner-oil-bath-assembly-assy-/322542831118? Unidentified, but seems promising. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-OIL-BATH-AIR-CLEANER-2-1-2-INCH-CARB-OPENING-/263072366315? Edited July 14, 2017 by mike6024 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 (edited) Ask for the support strut and electric box when shopping for an air cleaner. They may well throw them in for nothing if they know you want them. Jesse that is not much mileage. Chances are the engine, and car, are in good shape and will run with minimal work. Once you get it going there are ways to minimize wear and extend the life of the car through proper maintenance. You should be able to enjoy that car for many years without major repairs. Edited July 14, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 The cardboard ducts are available somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Those look like Chev or GM air cleaners. DeSoto is smooth on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cocuzza Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1949-1950-1951-1952-Chrysler-Oil-Bath-Air-Cleaner-/112481506533?hash=item1a306b94e5:g:0bYAAOSwGy5Y8TWz&vxp=mtr Maybe???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 looks right. Shipping is the same price as BIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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