Trade Offer

[bob duffer]

I have my 34 Buick up for sale and i have been offered a 52 Buick super to trade for it.. Just wanted to know what you all thought. Does it seem to be a good swap ?

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

In my book, yes. If you want a 52 Buick Super two door hard top. I would put the 34 a little higher in value. Just going by quality seen in the pictures.

[F&J]

23 minutes ago, bob duffer said:

Does it seem to be a good swap ?

If you like it, and see it in person, (or trust the owner)...why should it matter if one car is worth a bit more, or a bit less?

 

It's supposed to be a hobby, ....and being happy with a decision.

 

and the market is a bit unsteady for outright sales, so trades might need to be considered for those who are not needing money, but would like a different car.

 

.

[alsancle]

Swaps make a lot of sense if both guys like the other car.  If you do the math on sales tax, auction fees, potential capital gains, etc. swapping something fairly close in value is way more efficient than selling the car to both the other.

 

In this situation you need to have an idea on the market for both cars.   Those both look like great cars, I'm assuming the prewar car is worth a bit more.  The issue is it only 5-10%?  Then make the swap.  If it is closer to 25-50% then no.

[filbily]

the 34 is worth WAY more than any 52

[alsancle]

2 minutes ago, filbily said:

the 34 is worth WAY more than any 52

 

I'm not a Buick guys so I'll admit I don't know what I'm talking about, but wouldn't condition be the great equalizer?  If the 52 is mint isn't it a 10k-12k car?  If the 34 is a Model 40 and not quite as nice, isn't it also about 12k car?

[Povertycove]

The 52 seems really nice, Bob. You obviously want a change from your 34. Why not?

BTW, still loving the Thunderbird you sold me.  Terrific car.

[auburnseeker]

Seems like the value of a 34 would be a bit higher than that of a 52, especially with the 52 being a Super.  Mechanically are they equal?  Those repairs can add up quite quick, if say your car is in great mechanical condition and the 52 drives OK but needs a bunch of various stuff to make it drive like yours.  

Trades always seem tough.  I don't think I have ever been offered a trade of anything that was better or even on par with what I was offering. Just my experience though.

[bob duffer]

there is a picture of the engine

[bob duffer]

[bob duffer]

yes.. I like the looks of the 34 but I want a car that I can go on the freeway with .The  34 just doesn.t go very fast.

[Joe in Canada]

4 hours ago, bob duffer said:

yes.. I like the looks of the 34 but I want a car that I can go on the freeway with .The  34 just doesn.t go very fast.

Put in a higher gear ratio in the 34 or a Vender Overdrive for the best of both worlds.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[bob duffer]

I can't seem to find one Joe ...Do they make them because i will do that for sure . I would keep the car if i could change the gears in the rear.

Edited December 19, 2016 by bob duffer (see edit history)

[F&J]

4 hours ago, bob duffer said:

yes.. I like the looks of the 34 but I want a car that I can go on the freeway with .The  34 just doesn.t go very fast.

Define "Freeway"...  ...and if you have hills, and what type of hills on highway?

In my local area, freeway low speed lane is 65 at the least.

 

The whole problem of re-gearing a prewar vintage car:  If you have lower HP and lower torque, and "too much gear", you can be zipping along with traffic until you get to a long gradual grinding hill.  You end up running out of motor, and speed keeps dropping.....then how can you downshift to second?...without running in the breakdown lane at 40??

 

It's really tough to decide on a new rear axle ratio, when trying to make it work on a highway at the required speed, but not end up with a utter dog around the back roads.  That is compounded by a 3 speed trans, not the beauty of a modern low power car that has 5 speeds to keep the RPM in the correct range for different roads.

 

those old 3 speeds:  They "geared up" first and reverse ratios, to deal with the 4.5 to 4.8 rear axle.  That was needed or else it would have not enough speed in those gears.  If you now put a lower numerical gear in the axle, first gear can be tough to get going on an uphill start.  It may also be too fast in reverse.

 

Not saying it can't be done, but it's not as super easy as it sounds..

 

Some may say to run an inline overdrive, but those are in the mid-upper 20's%, so now if you lost so much speed on the highway hill, you need to drop out of OD, and it will be screaming...because it's too much of a drastic OD percentage.  This is with a typical powered antique engine.  Sometimes the engine may need some power increase mods to make it all work.

 

.

[auburnseeker]

Well you would be starting with a straight 8 as opposed to a 4 banger like an A so you have alot more to work with. Has anyone ever done a more modern transmission swap to help with gearing,  that can be done without making it permanent?  You might hit a snafu with the whole torque tube issue though.  What about swapping the actual rear end for something with better gears?  Probably not as easy as it sounds.  

I know in my Hudson,  they put a Ford 9", utilizing all the Hudson attachments,  so it's just the axle swap.  Could be easily switched back for authenticity, though with my type truck and a later Hudson engine,  I'm pretty sure no one would change it. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

10 hours ago, bob duffer said:

yes.. I like the looks of the 34 but I want a car that I can go on the freeway with .The  34 just doesn.t go very fast.

Life in 1934 was meant to go that fast, some times going 35 is fast enough.

[Curti]

It needs an overdrive. I have a 34 Auburn that has a dual ratio differential that will drive 65 all day long, and 85 if I really want to.

If I were you, I would keep the 34, it has a lot more class.

[mercer09]

trades rarely work out......................

 

with that in mind-sell your car and go buy what you want.

[Buicknutty]

Bob, there are a few vendors that sell an overdrive unit that goes into the torque tube, and gives a much higher gear. They are expensive, maybe $3-4,000, as there is the cost of the unit, plus the installation which requires removal of the torque tube and shaft, then they are cut and machined to fit the OD, then reassembled.

Some friends have a '38 Special which they like to drive a lot, and they had this conversion done, and really love it.

Right now, I don't have the name of the vendor though. Perhaps an internet search might turn up something for you.

Keith

Edited December 26, 2016 by Buicknutty (see edit history)

[avantey]

I agree with Xander about going slow is OK.  For me a great part of the interest in old cars is driving them as built for the driving experience.  They are different from modern cars and I like that.  Knowing their limits makes it all the better to go slower on back roads and enjoy the ride.  As a fairly recent joiner to the brass cars era I am going even slower and enjoying it even more!  I actually really dislike taking any of my cars on an interstate- I do not feel safe, it is not what my cars were made for (except maybe the Avanti) and I feel I am a hazard to others on the road.  If I have to go fast and drive highways I have modern cars.  I say slow down, enjoy the cars as built on the roads they traveled when new!  But this is just one ol' guy's opinion.....

[bob duffer]

Yes , i guess i will just sell it and start looking for my next toy. 

[jim43]

     I owned a 36 Ford with a  Borg Warner overdrive fitted into the torque tube. Six forward gears as  the OD functions in all three gears, and if the electrical on /off button for the OD solenoid is close to the gear shift, smooth shifts are easily accomplished and the engine kept in its favorable power range. I know of several cars that have been fitted by Mr Young with these overdrives, a 1930 Cadillac V-8 and a 1929 REO come to mind. Mr Young is in Ohio.

 

     There is less shifting than you might be imagining as hitting the button to shut the solenoid off drops it out of the the over drive into the regular gear. The extra gear shifts are accomplished with the push of a button, not shifting gears. On steeper descents pull the cable to lock out the OD and allow regular engine braking as the OD reduces that effectiveness.  I never had a moments trouble with mine and I have some good hills to climb.

 

     Without the overdrive a car will often have enough power to go faster than it should in a lower gear but not able to pull the hill in the next higher gear.  The OD gives a gear in between, good power and appropriate speed are readily available.   Jim 43 

[jim43]

    The name is Lloyd Young in Ohio.   Jim 43

[Marty Roth]

Bob, - Overdrive rather than permanent change of ratio, in my opinion.

 

Lloyd Young in Canal-Winchester, Ohio modified my torque tube and installed a 30% Borg Warner oversrive. That way I had the lower gearing for just around town or for extremely steep climbs such as Pikes Peak, and the higher gearing for freeway cruising.

 

The '34 Buick, with its vacuum-assisted 4-wheel power brakes, has more than ample stopping power from freeway speed, and I was even able to drive the Buick as a 5-speed, even though it was entirely unnecessary.

 

The installed cost was significantly more affordable than the new Gearvendor unit, and is "of the period. It never gave me trouble.

 

The '34-57 has significantly more value than the '52 Super Riviera 56-R, at least in my opinion. Maybe if the owner of the other car was willing to swap plus a reasonable amount of cash ????

 

In 1952 the Super was 3,775 lb on a 121.5 wheelbase and 204.8" overall - 124 hp (stick) or 128 with Dynaflow. Either way could be a great car. My wife would say "get both of them". you could decide later if one is less to your liking.

[Dynaflash8]

I don't like that upper water hose on the late-model Buick.  That and the modern radiator cap might mean other shortcuts.  So, what is my opinion?  If the '34 is a Series 50 trade it.  If it is another other Series don't trade it.  That's my opinion.  I don't think it is a Series 90, but if it is write me.

 

 

 

[Marty Roth]

With all due respect to Earl's comment, and his preference for the 40 Series, there is nothing negative with the 50 Series like Bob's car, above. 

 

We toured our 34-57 for 20 years, and then did a proper restoration, taking it to AACA Senior Grand Classic. We then passed it along to another very appreciative caretaker. Sure the Chevy-sized 40-Series had the more modern changes to the engine, and 5 more horsepower, but it lacked much of the refinement of the 50/60/90 Series cars, like the chrome trumpet horns, more deluxe interior, longer wheelbase, etc.

[bobg1951chevy]

Perhaps trades don't work out well, I don't know.

Comments are trades certainly don't work out well.

If, in your heart, you like the '52, go for it.

[Dynaflash8]

Marty: I should not have even responded to the post.  Personal opinions really have no place here.  That was a mistake on my part for which I apologize to all.  But, to explain now that it is done: The 1934-35 Series 50 is beautiful, but it has the smallest of the engines, even the 40 series.  I just prefer the 60 or 90 series with the larger engines, and yes, although I didn't say anything about the 40 in the post, it had the best engine of all which was modern for the time and continued in general through 1953 with size modification in 1937 when the 248 cid engine updated the 1934-1936 engine.  It still retained a great deal of interchangeability of parts through 1949 and the 1950 Special.  Then there was a major modification in 1950 on the Super to the 263 cid engine.  The 1951-53 Special also had the updated 263 engine which had some, but very little interchangeability with the 248 engine.  My comment was strictly based on these technical facts.  The 1934-35 Series 60 had a larger engine, as did the Series 90.  The Series 90 is recognized as a "Full Classic" by the CCCA and Class 19 Classic by AACA, so I definitely would like to have one of those.  Otherwise the Series 40 with the modern engine and downdraft carburetor is, as you say, my favorite of the 1934-35 variety.