Best Tires for 1955 Buick Super

[1955Buick]

Hello,

 

I have had a 1955 Buick Super for 4 years, and now it needs new tires. It looks like I have Coker Classic Bias Ply tires at the moment, but I wonder if anyone has any advice on replacing them with identical, or is there a better choice?

 

Thanks,

Patrick

 

[Matt Harwood]

Diamondback Classic wide whitewall radials are really the only choice if you want wide whites. I know, I also prefer the look of bias-plys on old cars, but a set of radials absolutely transformed the way my 1941 Buick Limited drives (and they came with a 40,000 mile warranty--no joke). They look mostly the same, to the point where nobody but an expert will notice, and the difference in ride quality, noise levels, and handling is astounding. Not a little difference, but so big my wife and kids noticed, too. Diamondbacks also cost about the same as bias-plys. Almost all WWW bias-plys are made by a certain large antique car tire manufacturer who shall remain nameless (the big one, you know the name), and their quality has slipped precipitously in recent years, to the point where I don't consider them safe tires anymore. I have a 100% defect rate on the tires I have installed on my personal cars and about a 40-50% defect rate on cars coming through my shop. That's too high. And by "defects, " I mean things that range from whitewalls that turn brown in a matter of days or weeks to valve stems detaching from tubes to balancing problems to total failures on the road at speed.

 

Check out Diamondback. Worth the investment and you'll love the way your Buick feels on the road--it'll make it feel decades younger.

 

/not affiliated, just a happy customer.

 

 

 

[HuntzNSam]

We too are quite pleased with our Diamondback WWW radials on our 60.  Installer said they balanced up easily, they ride, handle, and look great.

 

 

[MCHinson]

While I have no intent to argue with others who are happy with Radials, it really depends on what you intend to use the car for. If you intend to have the car judged in Class Judging at AACA meets, you will incur major point loss for Radial tires on your car. If you don't intend to show the car and want to buy Radials, go ahead. I have reproduction bias ply tires on my 1937 Buick Century and I am very happy with the way it looks and the way it drives. Maybe I have been lucky, but I have not had any problems on several cars with reproduction bias ply tires from the company that Matt Harwood is referring to in his post.

[1955Buick]

Thanks for all the great advice, folks. It is a great looking car (I think), but I drive it a lot more than I show it, so it's a good point about "intent".

 

I thought years ago I read somewhere that I should not put radial tires on a car designed for bias ply, but I'm not hearing that here, and I can't remember where or when I did.

 

Thanks,

Patrick

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I have stayed out of this tire debate until now.  My opinion, FWIW.    IF one is going to drive the car and not try for 400 points, the modern radial is the best way to go. Difficult to find white walls.  BUT PRICE IS RIGHT.  If points are important, stay with the Cokers. If not, and whites are important, go with the Diamondbacks. As Matt has said, the ride is, in most cases,  far superior. If driving, and price is a consideration,  just go to your local tire shop and buy modern.  I did for my '50 and have not regretted a moment. Eight years and 10,000 miles later and they still show very little wear. In spite of what many say, I see no cracking any where.

 

  Ben

[Matt Harwood]

4 hours ago, 1955Buick said:

Thanks for all the great advice, folks. It is a great looking car (I think), but I drive it a lot more than I show it, so it's a good point about "intent".

 

I thought years ago I read somewhere that I should not put radial tires on a car designed for bias ply, but I'm not hearing that here, and I can't remember where or when I did.

 

Thanks,

Patrick

 

There are a lot of myths around radials and many will say that old wheels can't handle the "stress" that radials put on the wheels, but I can't see how they would add any stress, and probably offer less since they absorb more impacts than bias-ply. Sure, if you're ramming around corners at high speed and reaching the adhesion limits of the tires, the radials--which have more grip--may stress the wheels a bit more, but there's just no way an old wheel is so close to failure that the type of tire on it will be the deciding factor. There are others who claim that they can't keep hubcaps on with radial tires and that's proof that the tires are flexing the wheels, but again, I just can't see how there's any additional stress. If you corner at .4g with bias plys and corner at .4g with radials, the stress on the wheel is exactly the same. The tires don't create the stress, the driving situation does.

 

There are others who say the suspensions are specifically "tuned" for bias-ply tires and the radials mess that up, and there may be some merit to that, particularly in cars of the 1960s and 70s when radials were first coming into use. I have had one experience (out of dozens) where the radials caused problems with the handling and bias-plys eliminated it (the car just wouldn't track straight with radials). However, in that situation, I blame the particular brand of radials (yep, you guessed it, Brand X) and not the car. A different set of tires cured the problem.

 

Anyway, if my gigantic 1941 Limited hasn't fallen off its ancient wheels with the radials on it, it is highly unlikely that your '55 will. If you don't care about the points lost in judging, you'll be delighted by how well your car works.

 

I would also heartily recommend that you seek out appropriate wide whites. There are regular whitewalls that are cheaper and available locally, but they always look weird on an old car. If you're buying tires, spend the long dollar to get a set that looks appropriate. The skinny modern whitewalls will ride the same, but you'll probably be dissatisfied with the look and everyone will know they aren't the right look for the car.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[kings32]

YesI have been buying from you know w ho  I am talking about ,never had a problem  until the last two sets . The tires on my 32 chevy are coming apart at the white wall .  The second set on my 1930 Oakland keep turning brown , have called the tire people for 2 weeks ,talk to a sale person send them pictures . They don't call back  , I have bought a lot of tires from them in the past ,have to find some one else   king32 

 

 

 

[Larry Schramm]

I would vote for radials.  Safety and ride trumps points.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[edinmass]

I sure see a lot of people welding on their wheels after they start to run radials. Cadillac's mostly. They do it to keep the hub caps on. I see them on 7000 pound classics and I cringe, for the look and the possibility of rim failure. Yup, I have seen rim failure with them, but they may have been rusty or thin to start with, I just don't know because I didn't see the rim after the failure. It's probably a safe bet on most cars that are post war they will be fine,  as to pre war I would sand blast the rims to bare metal for inspection first, it's downright scary what people do with filler and put tires on.  Most pre war cars war outside for the war and years afterward, and the rims are often difficult to find at any price. Why bet your life on a rim until you know it's condition. 

[EmTee]

Indiscriminate sandblasting could be the root cause of some wheel failures.  Heavy blasting work hardens the steel and can make it brittle.  Oxidation has the same effect chemically and put the two together and it can be trouble.  A severely corroded wheel that is heavily blasted will look clean, but will have a hardened surface with oxidation remaining in the nooks and crannies that the sand missed.  Such wheels would fail regardless of the tire type.  I contend the greater grip provided by the more uniform radial tire contact patch is the reason that radial tires 'break wheels'.  Bias ply tires, on the other hand, will break traction and put the car in the ditch, sparing the wheel.  Most likely any wheel that failed with a radial tire mounted was unsafe to begin with.

[1955Buick]

I'm leaning towards the radials (Diamondbacks). If for some reason it's not right for me, there's always a next time for me and tires.

 

I'm not trying to cheap out, but I do wonder if it is common to pay list price + around $150 for shipping, or if there are other options (is it common for anyone to stock them more locally?).

 

Thanks, everyone.

Patrick

[Roger Zimmermann]

On ‎25‎.‎09‎.‎2016 at 10:10 PM, Matt Harwood said:

There are others who claim that they can't keep hubcaps on with radial tires and that's proof that the tires are flexing the wheels, but again, I just can't see how there's any additional stress. If you corner at .4g with bias plys and corner at .4g with radials, the stress on the wheel is exactly the same. The tires don't create the stress, the driving situation does.

 

Well, Matt I don't agree. I saw somewhere the explanation why radial tires are adding more stress to the rims, unfortunately I don't remember where I saw it. Due to the construction's difference, bias ply tires are distributing the load on a rather large portion of the rim where radials are distributing that load on a very small segment. That's the whole difference.

Anyway, my older cars with one exception have radial tires; when the time will come to replace the bias ply tires from my Biarritz, I will buy radials.

[Akstraw]

I have had Diamondbacks on my '56 Cadillac for about five years.  I have had good experience with them, and no complaints.  They look and drive great, and I would recommend them, unless the AACA point deduction is a concern.

 

Andrew

Edited September 30, 2016 by Akstraw (see edit history)

[Janousek]

I've noticed several broken spokes on a 53' Skylark once the radials were installed.  Grandfather in law drove his car over 15k and more with bias but it didn't take long to start breaking spokes with radials.  Some others in the Skylark club have also experienced it.  They start clicking and the more you run it the more it clicks and more of the short spokes break.  They don't explode because the clicking alerts you and gives you time to address it.   

 

One club member has heavier spokes on his car and he hasn't broken anymore.  But... He's getting older and seldom drives the car anymore.  I like radials and I'm not aware of any steel wheel failures with all the people I know running them but those Skylarks don't like them.   

 

Dayton Wire wheels sell the reproductions as show only.  They think the wheel was under designed when they were new.  But...  The guys in the club never talk about broken wheels when they used to drive the cars.  Long time owners in the club.  

[Guest shinyhubcap]

Couldnt agree more with Matt !   On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 1:10 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Couldn't agree more with Matt - with a couple of qualifications.    I have had excellent results from both of our major tire suppliers - but also have had a few problems - in both cases,  handled responsibly by them.    Yes - there are inconsistancies - some of the "repro" bias tires turned my vehicles into poor handlers.   Virtually all of the radials in recent years have restored handling to the way these vehicles HAD to handle when they were in service.  What I would like to emphasize, is to suggest you should choose a white-wall width that is consistent with the year of your vehicle.   What today's young people call "gangster whites", or super wide white walls,  were pretty much out of favor by the mid 1930's.   Try and find original factory production photos or street scenes (NOT THE ADVERTISING DRAWINGS !)  to get a better idea of what would be "right" for your vehicle's era. By the mid 1950's, you simply could not buy "wide whites" - to some of us, "wide whites" on any post mid 1930's cars looks absurd.  Take Matt's  41 Buick   (looks like a "Limited" to me).  Somehow he wound up with a white-wall width that is correct for what was available when that car was new.  Considerally  narrower white-wall than what was available in the EARLY 1930's.!      It would look silly with the super-wide whites of the early 1930's.

 

 Bottom line - authenticity is a good thing!  Arent we interested in preserving real world history as best as we can ?

 

[MrEarl]

On September 29, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Janousek said:

I've noticed several broken spokes on a 53' Skylark once the radials were installed.  Grandfather in law drove his car over 15k and more with bias but it didn't take long to start breaking spokes with radials.  Some others in the Skylark club have also experienced it.  They start clicking and the more you run it the more it clicks and more of the short spokes break.  They don't explode because the clicking alerts you and gives you time to address it.   

 

One club member has heavier spokes on his car and he hasn't broken anymore.  But... He's getting older and seldom drives the car anymore.  I like radials and I'm not aware of any steel wheel failures with all the people I know running them but those Skylarks don't like them.   

 

Dayton Wire wheels sell the reproductions as show only.  They think the wheel was under designed when they were new.  But...  The guys in the club never talk about broken wheels when they used to drive the cars.  Long time owners in the club.  

 

Hmmm,interesting! Janousek, what brand radials were you running when the breaks occurred? We're the spokes original chrome or stainless? 

[Janousek]

Lamar,  they were diamondbacks on restored original rims with SS spokes.  This was happening over 10 years ago.  The car was just sold but it has mostly sat for the past decade.  

 

I checked the odometer that I know was a tick under 20k of him driving the car.   I would guess the radials were installed at 18k.  It just seemed like we would borrow the car and have to put the spare on.  Have the wheel relaced and next time we borrow it another would break.  It was constant and ruined a good driving car.  Some others in the 53'-54' Skylark club had the same problem if they drove them a lot.  

The car drove great with radials though.  

 

I wouldn't hesitate with radials on a steel wheel.  His 40' Buick had the same treatment and never batted an eye with Diamondbacks.  I'll be putting them on our 42' Cadillac limo when I get around to getting the engine back in it.  

 

I know several guys with radials on Auburn wire wheels and they have been fine.   I think that skylark is such a whale.  I used to have a set of wires from a 53' eldorado and I was going to compare them against the skylark wheels but It never happened before they met the scrap pile.  I've never heard of the Eldorado spokes breaking.  

[Roger Zimmermann]

As radial tires are putting more stress on a small segment of the rim/wheel, this is most probably the reason why the spokes are breaking. Bias-ply tires are distributing the stress on a larger segment of the wheel; therefore more spokes are solicited with bias-ply tires, however with less stress than with radial tires.

I don't remember where I saw a well done description of that behavior between both tires styles; everybody should be aware of that.

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

As radial tires are putting more stress on a small segment of the rim/wheel, this is most probably the reason why the spokes are breaking. Bias-ply tires are distributing the stress on a larger segment of the wheel; therefore more spokes are solicited with bias-ply tires, however with less stress than with radial tires.

I don't remember where I saw a well done description of that behavior between both tires styles; everybody should be aware of that.

 

This is probably the best explanation I've read. The more compliant sidewalls of the radials definitely load the rims differently than do the stiffer sidewalls of bias ply tires.  This is not to say that one is better than the other, just that they are different.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Have a look at this link: my explanation is coming from there: https://www.sema.org/files/attachments/WTC-2011-05-Bias-vs-Radial-Tire-Wheel-Fitment.pdf

[MrEarl]

Thanks for that additional info Janousek. I was considering some Diamondbacks on some KH's wire wheels on a small series 54 Buick.  I too have heard of the problems which you mention so will likely stay with bias ply.

[MrEarl]

Janousek, I am still searching for someone somewhat local to true a set of Kelsey Hayes wires for me and ran across this interesting bit of information on a Thunderbird site.

 

I have a set of aftermarket wire wheels bought from a company in California on my '61. They run tubes but also everything is sealed on the inside where the spokes are with a black type of silicon which acts like a liner. I havent had any issues with spokes rubbing holes in the tubes but I have recently experienced broken spokes. The spokes are stainless steel as are the nipples. After inspecting the broken end of the spoke, the exposed metal looked to be crystallised and brittle. The wheels have done approximately 4000 miles.

I contacted the wheel maker and told him of my findings. He was more than helpful but disagreed about the brittleness of the spokes as he said they only use top quality stainless for the spokes. I opted for stainless as I was under the impression this is the best material for wire wheels. Well, apparently not. After speaking with a metallurgist, he explained that wheel spokes made of S/S are hardened to within an inch of their life.

The reason being it increases the rigidity and helps make them more 'stain' proof. The trade off is the metal loses its ductile and elasticity properties and makes it more brittle. The S/S typically used is Martencitic 316 or similar. The better grade to use would be Austenetic 400 series but is not as readily available.

Therefore, the best spokes to use for a wire wheel are the chromed steel type. This advice came from the metallurgist and also the guy that is going to rebuild my wheels.

 

and in response:

 

Interesting conversation! I've always wanted a set of wire wheels for a 'Bird, but had never even thought about this kind of spoke problem arising.
Since I work with metals, I thought I'd add my 2 cents here -
Not to step on any toes Ozzy, but 316 is an austenitic stainless, and 400 series is martensitic.
Also, since 316 (or 302, 303 or 304, for that matter) doesn't respond to heat treatment (for hardening or increasing its strength) I'd love to know the details about what someone was told about the stainless being hardened within an inch of its life! That just makes no sense. I'm guessing it's more likely that maybe a really cheap variety of stainless - like a 100 series - was being used, and being passed off as 300 series.
400 series does respond very well to heat treatment (due to its ferrous content), and in fact can match heat treated alloy steel for strength, BUT, it's corrosion resistant qualities (again, due to ferrous content) are nearly nil in most conditions. So much for calling that one a "stainless" steel!
I was told many years ago exactly what Ozzy stated: in most applications, steel spokes with an extremely high quality chroming are the best choice.

 

 

I will probably still go with bias ply for fear of broken spokes. From what I understand when one spoke breaks it is not a simple matter of replacing the one spoke but rather relacing and truing the whole wheel. I don't have the time, patience nor $$ for that. 

[Janousek]

Lamar,

 

early on we were just replacing a couple of the short spokes that broke.  But then we ran into problems with the spokes around the broken ones beind loose and the stainless nipple was gauled to the spoke.  They would just break at that point.    Buchannen the spoke people sell a special anti-seize to prevent this when lacing up a new set.  

 

Some people used to speak of embrittlement from the chrome process and that is why the switch to SS.  I think it was just cheaper/easier to make for the aftermarket.  

 

The owner of American Arrow Corporation that makes the mascots and wire wheels has a Skylark.  He knew of our problems and decided to engineer a new set of spokes back when we were restoring his Skylark.  He an aeronautical(however it's spelled) engineer and his are SS but larger diameter.  He never gave me a price to do a set of wheels.  I didn't push either as the Skylark wasn't ours.   I know he will sell a set of spokes and lace them up but I know your paying for peace of mind and your going to pay for it.  Won't be cheap but it will be right.  

[Larry Schramm]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 10:02 AM, Janousek said:

Lamar,

 

early on we were just replacing a couple of the short spokes that broke.  But then we ran into problems with the spokes around the broken ones beind loose and the stainless nipple was gauled to the spoke.  They would just break at that point.    Buchannen the spoke people sell a special anti-seize to prevent this when lacing up a new set.  

 

Some people used to speak of embrittlement from the chrome process and that is why the switch to SS.  I think it was just cheaper/easier to make for the aftermarket.  

 

The owner of American Arrow Corporation that makes the mascots and wire wheels has a Skylark.  He knew of our problems and decided to engineer a new set of spokes back when we were restoring his Skylark.  He an aeronautical(however it's spelled) engineer and his are SS but larger diameter.  He never gave me a price to do a set of wheels.  I didn't push either as the Skylark wasn't ours.   I know he will sell a set of spokes and lace them up but I know your paying for peace of mind and your going to pay for it.  Won't be cheap but it will be right.  

 

 I know Don Sommer at American Arrow and he does top shelf work along with his son.  If he does something you can be assured that it is right.  Not necessarily inexpensive, but right. 

 

Remember, If you do not have the money to do it right the first time, where will you get the money to do it again? 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)