Question about insurance!

[Guest mdeluca]

I'm having a hard time finding any classic car insurance that would accept me, as I am under the normal 25 year old requirement. Any recommendations for a good insurance company that would insure me? I already checked Hagerty and they have a hidden clause that every licensed driver in the household has to have their own personal use vehicle. Any and all suggestions are welcome!

 

Thanks!

[padgett]

The common criteria for a classic car policy is that it must be kept in a locked garage and must not be used as a daily driver. In most cases this means having another car. Dunno what happens if you do not commonly drive anywhere (e.g. city dweller).

[Paul Dobbin]

Padgett is correct.  Collector car insurance is for secondary vehicles that are for very limited use.   Because they are not for regular road use the usual driver use classifications and young drivers ratings are not built into their rate system,  Youth classifications are notoriously costly to all insurance companies and if the collector car market had to rate for them we'ed all pay a lot more.    If "mdeluca" has another vehicle her best choice is to add the collector car to the regular policy until he reaches 25.  (Many of us had to forgo the collision & comprehensive coverage for cost reasons)  It may sound unfair, but the rates for collectors cars are low because the classification is adult, experienced drivers who are usually in some other car and the collector car is locked in the garage,  Perhaps better relations with the parents until age 25 would help parent child relations.  I see lots of fathers and sons at shows.

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Paul Dobbin
John S in Penne clarified gender (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Michelle, could you transfer your car

to your parents or a trusted relative--

to someone who has a regular car also?

That way, there would be a regular car

in the household along with the antique.

 

Being honest, you should do that only if 

you are using your Trans Am for mostly

antique-car purposes.  (Occasional other

driving is usually allowed.)   I assume that's your intent.

[Guest mdeluca]

I was thinking about transferring it to my dad, he has a "65 GTO and could add it to his policy. He called and said he was going to purchase a Trans Am and that he wanted to bring both of his cars to shows and cruises and that he wanted to list me as a secondary driver so that I could drive one of them. They told him that that could not be done. The only issue with that is that I would not be able to drive it. If I get into an accident the insurance company will not cover the cost because there is a clause in the policy that states that all drivers of the vehicle must be over 25.

 

I have the car insure now with Geico because I do not have my own personal use vehicles, as I use my parents for all commuting purposes. The Trans Am is kept in a locked, secured garage, and it will be stored there all winter to stay away from the cold and the snow. I intend only to use it as a weekend car ( going to shows, cruises, and maybe just cruising around the neighborhood occasionally), possibly using it one day a week. But with Geico, they won't even provide me with a classic car insurance policy unless I have a regular use vehicle insured by them. To undergo the hassle of transferring one of my parents cars into my name and having it insured is enough of a pain, but that would all be before I even see a quote for the classic/ show car. 

 

My father and I didn't think I would have such a difficult time finding a good insurance. It's like you try to do the right thing and aren't allowed to. It's very frustrating. It's hard enough being a young person, and a girl, in this hobby. No one takes you seriously until you show them what your capable of (usually being able to do something mechanically). But adding unnecessary difficulty to do the right thing is just irritating. 

Edited September 17, 2016 by mdeluca (see edit history)

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

Try 

The Cincinnati Insurance Company

 

[charlier]

You might want to look at American Collectors Insurance

 

According to their web site they will consider operators with:

1.) A minimum of 5 years of licensed driving experience.
2.) A good driving record. No more than one moving violation or one at-fault accident within the last 3 years (up to 2 per household).
3.) One regular-use vehicle for every licensed driver in the household (exceptions may be made for full-time students and retired couples).

 

I do not see an age requirement of 25 years old or that you personally must own the regular use vehicle. If you reside in your parent's household and they have enough regular-use vehicles to cover all the drivers then American Collectors Might work for you.

 

Good Luck with your search for insurance.

 

Charlie

[joe_padavano]

A little common sense, folks.  "Classic car" insurance is low cost BECAUSE the companies have placed use restrictions on the policies to minimize their risk of loss.  This is simply math (probabilities, actually).  The less you use the car, the less likely you are to make a claim.  It really is that simple.  THIS is why they require a regular-use auto in addition to the classic. THIS is why they limit mileage and usage.  Sure, you can lie about how you use the car, but expect to have an argument if you ever make a claim.

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, AJFord54 said:

She's using it just for the purposes of antique car coverage.  They limit you to maybe 2000 miles a year or so.  If she follows those guidelines, what is the difference?  She will probably use one of her father's cars as a daily driver when needed.  

 

The difference is that without another vehicle registered in the person's name, the insurance company has no proof that the classic isn't the person's only vehicle and assumes it will be used for daily driving.  Again, this is simply a risk assessment.  Sure, you could have another vehicle the day you sign the policy and sell it the next day. Good luck with that if you try to make a claim.

 

The insurance company deals with actuarial calculations, not specific cases.  There are people who lie about how they use their cars, which obviously hurts the honest ones.  You MIGHT find a company who will either believe the story or accept some signed affidavit to that effect, but these are big companies who deal in averages, not specific cases.  They are in business to make money and will maximize their chances of doing so within the limits of the law. That's life. Get used to it.

[padgett]

Key is perseverance. I suspect that Michelle will be able to find what is needed and sounds like the type of person the AACA needs.

 

BTW most policies allow driving to and from an event, cruise, or rally (as long as not a contest of speed) or occasional personal use even if an overnight or two at a hotel/motel is needed. As long as not needed for daily use and stored in a secured garage the Majors (Grundy, Hagerty, Taylor)  are quite reasonable.

[mercer09]

JC Taylor will only insure for 26 on-as Joe says, they are doing the math and many people under 26 have accidents, so it is merely statistics we are dealing with.

I say use reg insurance for now, and as mentioned, take the car off the road for the winter...........

in another year you can reevaluate.

[joe_padavano]

2 hours ago, AJFord54 said:

The "proof" is in the odometer.  I would also suggest that her father go to other insurance companies and tell them the story.  Suggest to them that he will switch to their company if they will go to bat with Haggarty, JC Taylor, etc.  to get the coverage for her.  

 

It is trivially easy to disconnect the speedo/odometer on that car.  It is only slightly more difficult to reset the odo. Do you REALLY think people don't do that on cars with mileage-limited policies.

These insurance companies don't know the OP and have no prior business with her.  Do you really think they will accept "trust me"?  Welcome to the real world.

[Guest mdeluca]

I'm fine with mileage limits, as it is only a show car. The car only has 24000 original miles on it. I plan to keep it as low as possible for as long as possible. I have the car in a locked garage on private property and it will stay there for the majority of the time when I am not using it. I understand the issue and the reason why insurance companies will not cover someone under the age of 25, or 26. But I find it very unfair because it puts us young people, who obviously do not have as much money as older classic car connoisseurs, at a disadvantage because either the full price of any repairs is put on us or the normal insurance company will total our cars. 

 

I've looked into different insurances and the main issue is my age, they won't cover me. Although it is trivially easy to remove the odo cable from the transmission, I don't want to do that because then I have no real knowledge how low many miles I'm putting on the engine, which can be an issue on it's own.

 

I have it insured right now, but it is a very basic coverage. Say for instance I am in an accident, they will total a perfectly good car because in their eyes its more expensive to fix the car than to give me the book value, which isn't much for classic cars unless they are insured by classic car insurance.  So I'm at a complete loss. I have a beautiful car I want to take out and drive but at the same time I'm horrified that some fool will crash into me and I will lose it because no proper insurance will cover me or allow me to drive it if it is listed under my fathers name.

 

Also, as to the full time students, I mentioned that when I called hagerty and they told me it didn't matter. Both my younger brother and myself are full time students, with him living in a dorm. They told  me it made no difference because our drivers licenses are listed under my home address and there are not enough vehicles to  allow each member of my family to have a personal use vehicle, even though he does not live at home for the majority of the year.

[charlier]

13 minutes ago, mdeluca said:

Also, as to the full time students, I mentioned that when I called hagerty and they told me it didn't matter. Both my younger brother and myself are full time students, with him living in a dorm. They told  me it made no difference because our drivers licenses are listed under my home address and there are not enough vehicles to  allow each member of my family to have a personal use vehicle, even though he does not live at home for the majority of the year.

 

 

Did you have a chance to look into insurance with American Collectors? See my post above since their insurance might fit your needs.

 

Charlie

[joe_padavano]

27 minutes ago, mdeluca said:

I'm fine with mileage limits, as it is only a show car. The car only has 24000 original miles on it. I plan to keep it as low as possible for as long as possible. I have the car in a locked garage on private property and it will stay there for the majority of the time when I am not using it. I understand the issue and the reason why insurance companies will not cover someone under the age of 25, or 26. But I find it very unfair because it puts us young people, who obviously do not have as much money as older classic car connoisseurs, at a disadvantage because either the full price of any repairs is put on us or the normal insurance company will total our cars. 

 

I've looked into different insurances and the main issue is my age, they won't cover me. Although it is trivially easy to remove the odo cable from the transmission, I don't want to do that because then I have no real knowledge how low many miles I'm putting on the engine, which can be an issue on it's own.

 

I have it insured right now, but it is a very basic coverage. Say for instance I am in an accident, they will total a perfectly good car because in their eyes its more expensive to fix the car than to give me the book value, which isn't much for classic cars unless they are insured by classic car insurance.  So I'm at a complete loss. I have a beautiful car I want to take out and drive but at the same time I'm horrified that some fool will crash into me and I will lose it because no proper insurance will cover me or allow me to drive it if it is listed under my fathers name.

 

Also, as to the full time students, I mentioned that when I called hagerty and they told me it didn't matter. Both my younger brother and myself are full time students, with him living in a dorm. They told  me it made no difference because our drivers licenses are listed under my home address and there are not enough vehicles to  allow each member of my family to have a personal use vehicle, even though he does not live at home for the majority of the year.

 

Your specific situation and trustworthiness are irrelevant to an insurance company.  They deal in averages over very large populations.  This is how they make money. Based on that, your age group is FAR more likely to have an accident and thus make a claim.  Take up the "unfairness" with others of your age. 

 

While you're at it, get them to put down the phone while driving.

 

And for what it's worth, we all went through this.  I paid through the nose for insurance on my 442s when I was under 25 - and that was a daily driver in Los Angeles, so I was doubly screwed on price.

[60FlatTop]

Most, if not all, regulations are reactionary. People whom pushed the limits or skewed the interpretation of the rules got you where you are with the insurance company. Get older and own two cars. Then you are golden.

 

Now is a good time to learn to play by the rules. I live in New York where they have been hauling away 60 and 70 year old politicians  in handcuffs. They wanted to interpret the rules in their own way. Don't do stuff like that. Even putting it in another person's name and driving it is a level of fraud.

 

You are young. It is better to sit back and watch the connivers than to be one. Be patient and make more money.

Bernie

[GARY F]

I agree with charlier.

[Guest mdeluca]

19 hours ago, charlier said:

 

 

Did you have a chance to look into insurance with American Collectors? See my post above since their insurance might fit your needs.

 

Charlie

I'll check them out! Thanks so much! 

[Paul Dobbin]

 

Face the facts that young drivers as a group or class are of much greater risk to the insurance companies.  That does not mean that ALL are, but as a group it;s a valid selection criteria because of the numbers and loss ratios. 

I spent 30 years in that business and made it a point to have every new 16 year old come to my office with their parents when they obtained their license.  I explained the rules to them and the parents and told them driving was a privilege offered at the discretion of the parents.  I suggested no other kids in the car for the first 3 months then only one for the remainder of the first year.  My theory is that 3 passengers having fun and acting silly in the car is to big a distraction to the new driver.

Parents almost always said "Not my kid, who is a responsible, good student who would never be that way".  One year just before I retired, every single new driver had an accident.  That's why rates and rules are hard on young drivers.

For those of us who were young once (That's ALL of us) and felt we were being dealt a bad deal, went without collision & comprehensive coverage and paid high rates for liability coverage.  Without collision & comp., we proved we were responsible by not having accidents and self insuring during those youthful years.

Another class that feels the same way is Corvette and Muscle Car classification.  In the regular insurance world, they pay more, but not in the collector car market because they are supposed to be more mature and more sensible in their driving.  However, I see to may "Old Guys" showing off at or near car events with demonstrations of immature driving,  Fortunately it's not in big enough numbers to change their classification.

[Matt Harwood]

Remember that insurance is a gamble and the rules are heavily skewed in favor of the house. You're betting that you WILL Have an accident (hence you buy insurance to cover it) and the insurance company is betting that you won't, but they're also hedging their bet by charging you enough to cover the loss if it comes. But in some cases, they know they'll lose so they simply won't play, which is the case with younger drivers.

 

You can be careful and you can be conscientious and you can care about hurting your car and drive accordingly, but the fact is, you don't have that much experience as a young person. Care and vigilance can make a huge difference, but experience is the best teacher of all, and younger drivers have less experience. There are some things you can only learn through action, not care and studying and vigilance.

 

When I was 16, I had saved enough money to go to the Bondurant School of Racing for four days. It was SHOCKING what I didn't know about how a car behaved and how to drive, even though I'd been studying driving for, well, 16 years, and had technically already been driving for three years. I went in there thinking I was already pretty good and within ten minutes, I was humiliated and humbled, ready to learn. I've never had an accident of any kind save bumping my father's car in the driveway, and I attribute that to what I learned at that driving school. Not just how to be faster, but how to be safer and, more importantly, how a car behaves because sometimes it's just not what you expect. And the only way to learn that is to experience it.

 

Your best bet might be to put your car in a parent's name and buy a beater as a daily driver. Or simply buy regular insurance and eat the cost for a few years, being sure to turn it off when it's parked during the winter. Or maybe see if the insurance company will amortize 6 months of coverage over the whole year, so your monthly payment is smaller. I had to pay my own insurance when I was a kid and it was a BIG chunk of change if I wanted to drive. But that was the deal. I drove a 1976 Cadillac Eldorado convertible and no collector car insurance policy would touch it, but my parents' USAA policy covered it and me--for a price.

[Plyroadking]

I've been there except I was a male and somehow in a higher risk bracket.....

 

JC Taylor insurance might still insure people under 25 with classic cars. I looked into them then and it was cheaper to put the car in my parent's name and have them insure it with a generic insurance company, and assign it as a secondary vehicle for me. It had full coverage and to offset the cost I'd suspend all coverage except comprehensive during the winter months. Eventually as I collected more cars rates went down but I still had to have a primary driver. 

 

Until a couple years ago I had all of my classics insured with "agreed value" policies with State Farm but also a primary driver. I learned the hard way that "agreed value" is a hoax when I went to collect on a "total loss" claim. Anyway about all I could do was stay with a regular insurance company till I became magically responsible the day I turned 25.....

[tomcarnut]

I have two daughters 25 and under that I am told by JC Taylor can drive the collector cars if I am with them. I had the cars insured through State Farms collector program for a while but it was stated value not agreed but I got an appraisal. I do not remember an age limit with State Farm. You might check with them. Had some of the same issues when I was 22 in 1980 and bought my first car that was a 1966 Chev Impala Convt with 25000 miles and all original that I used only as collector car. Lived with regular insurance till I turned 25. By the way, I still have it and now has 51000 AACA tour driven miles with only tires, batteries and mufflers replaced over the last 36 years

 

Tom Muth

Cincinnati, Ohio

[Annie G]

Michelle - good luck getting a decent insurance company!  I've never had collector car insurance, but am in the process of having my 1990 pickup appraised so I can get an agreed value policy for the first time in 23 years of owning the truck.  Keep going through every insurance company you can find - it might be worth it to buy a beater car as your DD so you can put your car as the 2nd vehicle.  just a thought.

[Plyroadking]

1 hour ago, AnniesSS said:

Michelle - good luck getting a decent insurance company!  I've never had collector car insurance, but am in the process of having my 1990 pickup appraised so I can get an agreed value policy for the first time in 23 years of owning the truck.  Keep going through every insurance company you can find - it might be worth it to buy a beater car as your DD so you can put your car as the 2nd vehicle.  just a thought.

Ask your agent what happens when the at fault driver's insurance company won't give you a fair market  compensation for the car once it's deemed totaled or repair costs exceed their "fair" market value. Do you get a check from your insurance company for exactly the amount that your agreed value is? If they say yes, get it in writing!!!

[joe_padavano]

14 hours ago, AnniesSS said:

Michelle - good luck getting a decent insurance company!

 

^^^THIS!  And if you find one. PLEASE share the name of that company!

[Restorer32]

Big difference between "Agreed Value" and "Stated Value". Be sure to understand the difference.

[tomcarnut]

State Farm still has a collector/antique car program  https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/auto/antique-classic-cars  Does not have any age of driver comments on the site but you need to call an agent and do some research on the stated value/agreed value. I had stated value that I did not like but got appraisals on the cars to cover me maybe. They may have agreed value now. If they will cover under 25 drivers, stated value maybe a better choice that a regular insurance policy at least till you turn 25 at which time you can switch to another provider.

 

Tom Muth

Cincinnati, Ohio

[padgett]

BTW as far as I understand it, Agreed Value is what you want if you want insurance greater than the actual cash value (ACV). Stated value if you want a lower premium (and will receive less if totaled). Watch out for the escape clauses though.

[Plyroadking]

1 hour ago, padgett said:

BTW as far as I understand it, Agreed Value is what you want if you want insurance greater than the actual cash value (ACV). Stated value if you want a lower premium (and will receive less if totaled). Watch out for the escape clauses though.

Maybe with a different company but State Farm Mutual Insurance will NOT give you a check for the dollar amount of your "agreed value". Upon "totalling" of you car, they have an appraiser determine the at that time value of the vehicle insured with the "agreed value" policy and then only give you what that appraiser says it's worth irregardless of what the previously "agreed value" was when you started the policy. 

 

Been there done that and they honked me off enough that I promised to tell everyone I met about it!

[trimacar]

I think that agreed value, stated value, and actual cash value (acv) are such a trap for antique car owners who want insurance.  Unfortunately, insurance seekers are all to eager to get cheap (excuse me, inexpensive)  insurance, then when something goes wrong, it's an expensive wake up call.

 

You want an "Agreed Value" policy, but you also have to read the fine print in your insurance contract.  And yes, that's what it is, a contract, and if the fine print says "agreed value or acv, whichever is less", then you're twisted into a spiral (that's what screws are, you know).  You want a full blown, agreed value, if the car is gone from wreck or fire or theft or flood or any of another 30 things that can destroy your car, then THAT'S what you get paid.  Very few policies now are going to give you that dollar figure without a fight, that's one reason it's so inexpensive.

 

OK, how many of you have sat down with the 30 pages of nice printed material you received from your insurance agency, and read it through, line by line?  Really, both of you?

 

Do it now.  Make a promise to yourself to read your contract, and understand what happens if your car is wrecked, burned, stolen.  I'd wager over half of you will be reading and saying "WHAT?" at some point in the review.  Most of you won't bother, and then the 2% of you that have claims will be wondering what happened.  Also, understand what the little word "or" means, it's huge in insurance.  "your stated value OR actual cash value"....wow....