Models disappearing after 2014

[nick8086]

[h=1]Models disappearing after 2014[/h]

Car sales never measured up to expectations...

https://autos.yahoo.com/photos/models-disappearing-after-2014-1400619081-slideshow/

[CarlLaFong]

Won't miss a single one of them

[39BuickEight]

The Cadillac wagon was neat, but I'm never buying a new car, so my opinion isn't too important lol.

[Matt Harwood]

Knowing that Cadillac was killing the CTS wagon, I grabbed one last fall. Not a V, but a 3.6 with direct-injection and all-wheel-drive. The sucker looks like a rock star and drives quite well--just finished a 900-mile road trip and it pulled down better than 25 MPG at 75 MPH. Not bad for a full-boat luxury car. Sadly, the looks, as awesome as they are, mean that the cargo bay is pretty useless for large items that would fit in my former Audi allroad wagon. I'm bummed there won't be another CTS wagon, but they were pretty much sales-proof. I think mine is one of only 1300 built that year.

[nick8086]

I looking in to a F/J. I may not happen..

[Bleach]

I'm disappointed the the Ford E series vans are getting cut in favor for the grotesque and tiny Transit. There won't be much for contractors left to chose from.

[joe_padavano]

I'm disappointed the the Ford E series vans are getting cut in favor for the grotesque and tiny Transit. There won't be much for contractors left to chose from.

You are confusing the full size Transit with the "tiny" Transit Connect. The Transit is still grotesque, but it isn't tiny. Ford now has two grotesque vans.

Ford Transit Connect:

Ford Transit:

[Bleach]

Wow I didn't know about that ugly monster. I didn't know Ford could make something that ugly.

[Guest Skyking]

Wow I didn't know about that ugly monster. I didn't know Ford could make something that ugly.

They are all ugly, that's why we are all here.

[Matt Harwood]

They are all ugly, that's why we are all here.

Ding ding ding! Winner! Best quote of the day.

[Fleek]

I know the Dodge Avengers do not have a good reputation and are not anything really special, but I have one of the first ones made in 2008. It has been a good car with few problems. It was my wifes choice for a car for her and she still loves its looks. If I could afford it, I would buy one of the last 2014s and plan on keeping it. But the 2008 will have to stay around for a while longer.

[dictator27]

Grotesque? Ugly? Where? I'll take the Transit and the new Fiat based Ram van over what they are replacing any day. At least European styling has some imagination to it. The domestic stuff is BLAND.

Terry

[Dave@Moon]

I've yet to meet the person who bought a utility van for it's appearance.

The FJ Cruiser made sense (sort of) in a world of $1.50/gal., relatively harmless fuel (in environmental terms). In today's world of ever increasing C.A.F.E. standards to fight climate change, vehicles like the FJ make less sense every day. I see about 20/week at the Toyota dealer service department where I now work, and in the last year I've seen exactly one (owned and used by a surveyor) out of hundreds that is used off road in any capacity. (If you want one get a used one, they're almost all pretty much immaculate grocery-getters used by well-to-do housewives.) The Nissan Murano CrossCabriolet is a similar out-of-step vehicle, made into a silly expensive SUV convertible that nobody asked for.

What baffles me is the collapse of Mitsubishi. I've owned two, and they were every bit the equal of any Toyota/Mazda/Subaru I've owned in quality and reliability (just like their collective reputations in consumer tests). But their marketing mistakes have been terrific (i.e. 2 wildly different SUVs with basically the same name, failure to follow up any success [Eclipse, EVO, Montero Sport, Galant, Mighty Max truck, etc.] with a model that actually improved on the original, failing to capitalize on unique models [they're still the last company to introduce a new true compact station wagon in the U.S.--the 2003-2004 Mirage wagon which was almost never promoted]. etc.). The loss of the EVO, a truly exceptional performance car, leaves Mitsubishi with nothing but a smattering of some of the dullest cars sold in the U.S. They're still well made, but not likely to be cherished by their owners.

[Guest Skyking]

Oh yeah, Mitsubishi, that rings a loud bell! I've owned a Chrysler with one or their engines. The biggest piece of carp I've ever owned. They should stick to building printing presses.

[joe_padavano]

...I see about 20/week at the Toyota dealer service department where I now work, and in the last year I've seen exactly one (owned and used by a surveyor) out of hundreds that is used off road in any capacity. (If you want one get a used one, they're almost all pretty much immaculate grocery-getters used by well-to-do housewives.)

And this is a surprise because???

Look, SUVs are simply macho minivans, used as heavy, tall station wagons that get crappy gas mileage. The only time any of these ever go off-road is if the driver accidentally backs over the landscaping on the way out of the driveway.

I live in Loudoun County, VA, which has both the highest per-capita income of any county in the US and the most miles of unpaved public roads of any county in VA. These SUV drivers are the ones afraid to drive their SUVs on these unpaved roads. I'm in an old station wagon and these people are creeping along, apparently either afraid of a stone chip or upset by the stiff suspension and rough ride in their "truck". Go figure.

[junkyardjeff]

I hate to see the Ford vans go away,can not stand the goofy looking and probably much wimpier European designed replacements. Keep that crap in Europe and not over here.

[superior1980]

I can't say that I personally care about a van one way or the other, but I can say that I hate what the new Transit van represents. To me, what it represents is the demise of the USA being its own market and having its own vehicles, in favor of global companies designing stuff for Europe and pawning it off on us as well. I say shame on you Ford, I thought you were supposed to be an American company. Did you forget your roots and the country that made you the great company that you are?

[Dave Mellor NJ]

The Transit was originally made in Turkey then they moved production to Romania, I heard they planned to make it here or they already started so I'm not so upset but I really can't figure why they have to kill the E150. Wasn't it profitable? You see them all over the place. I couldn't figure why they stopped the Ranger either.

[Bleach]

Ford also discontinued the Panther platform in 2012 which included the venerable Crown Victoria, a staple of law enforcement and taxi service. Ford's replacement for the Crown Vic was not so warmly received by many law enforcement agencies. Many agencies have opted for the new Caprice or the Dodge Charger instead.

It seems the taxi industry was left with the Transit Connect. I still see many more Crown Vic in taxi service than the Transit Connect. I'm wondering what alternatives are there for the Crown Vic for taxis?

[BearsFan315]

Will not miss most of them, did not know some of them existed...

so many options out there not enough buyers to make them all

[Dave@Moon]

I'm wondering what alternatives are there for the Crown Vic for taxis?

Right now a great many taxis (about 1/2 in NYC) are hybrids. Progressive cities, like San Francisco, are nearing 100% hybrid taxi fleets. Priuses and older Ford Escapes are very common, even here in Cincinnati.

However NYC recently awarded a 10 year contract to Nissan to build Nissan’s NV-200 as the exclusive taxi supplier there. Environmentally it's a step backwards, and is largely related to the unique way NYC issues it's taxi medallions (e.g. not to the people who buy the gas for the taxi).

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/10/6538091/combusted-death-hybrid-taxis-new-york?page=all

[Dave@Moon]

And this is a surprise because???

Obviously it's not a surprise, just an absurdity that I've long opined about here. What I am finding ever more amusing is the reverse usage seen among most SUV drivers. The more capable an off-road machine becomes, the more pampered it usually is. It's very rare that i see a Highlander or a Rav4 receiving the kid glove care afforded* most extreme off-roaders like FJ Cruisers, Land Cruisers, and lifted 4WD Tundras. The latter are never seen with dirty tires, and rarely haul anything more than a laptop.

Why do people become posers for an activity almost no one does?:confused:

(* a word very deliberately chosen)

[joe_padavano]

Obviously it's not a surprise, just an absurdity that I've long opined about here.

We're in 100% agreement on this, and posers is exactly the right word, also.

[Bleach]

Right now a great many taxis (about 1/2 in NYC) are hybrids. Progressive cities, like San Francisco, are nearing 100% hybrid taxi fleets. Priuses and older Ford Escapes are very common, even here in Cincinnati.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]250162[/ATTACH]

Neither the Escape or the Prius offer the room and comfort of a Crown Vic. They fine for a short trip if you only have two passengers (a third if they allow anyone to sit up front with the driver) and maybe a few bags. Rear shoulder and leg room are tight in either. If you had to have one of these pick you up from the airport, you'd have to hope an Escape was available and even that doesn't have the cargo room of the Crown Vic.

My daily driver is a Crown Vic PI. 5 adults (including driver) can ride comfortably in it and carry a decent amount of luggage. 6 people would fit fine if I had a bench seat up front instead of buckets.

[39BuickEight]

We're in 100% agreement on this, and posers is exactly the right word, also.

I don't think poser is the correct work because they don't even know what it is they are posing for. To me the correct word is misguided. They just buy these things because they think they are supposed to, without really making any decision of their own. Another great example are Range Rovers. The ultimate off road vehicle that is bought by people who often wouldn't even walk on a dirt path, much less drive on one.

There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.

[joe_padavano]

I don't think poser is the correct work because they don't even know what it is they are posing for. To me the correct word is misguided. They just buy these things because they think they are supposed to, without really making any decision of their own. Another great example are Range Rovers. The ultimate off road vehicle that is bought by people who often wouldn't even walk on a dirt path, much less drive on one.

That's exactly my definition of poser. These are people who NEED a station wagon but want to look like something more macho (for lack of a better term).

[39BuickEight]

At least we agree

[junkyardjeff]

I would rather walk then ride in the back or a Prius or what ever that other ugly thing is.

Right now a great many taxis (about 1/2 in NYC) are hybrids. Progressive cities, like San Francisco, are nearing 100% hybrid taxi fleets. Priuses and older Ford Escapes are very common, even here in Cincinnati.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]250162[/ATTACH]

However NYC recently awarded a 10 year contract to Nissan to build Nissan’s NV-200 as the exclusive taxi supplier there. Environmentally it's a step backwards, and is largely related to the unique way NYC issues it's taxi medallions (e.g. not to the people who buy the gas for the taxi).

[ATTACH=CONFIG]250160[/ATTACH]

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/10/6538091/combusted-death-hybrid-taxis-new-york?page=all

[dictator27]

www.vauxhall.co.uk/vehicles/vans-and-commercial-vehicles.html

When-not if-GM does the same thing, this is likely what we'll get. Awesome looking vehicles.

Terry

[Bleach]

www.vauxhall.co.uk/vehicles/vans-and-commercial-vehicles.html

When-not if-GM does the same thing, this is likely what we'll get. Awesome looking vehicles.

Terry

I doubt it. They used to say that Pontiac builds excitement but now that Pontiac is gone GM only builds excrement.

[dictator27]

I doubt it. They used to say that Pontiac builds excitement but now that Pontiac is gone GM only builds excrement.

At least we agree on that.

Terry

[Dandy Dave]

Ahhh Yessss. Land Rovers in the Dirt...

Edited May 29, 2014 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

Neither the Escape or the Prius offer the room and comfort of a Crown Vic. They fine for a short trip if you only have two passengers (a third if they allow anyone to sit up front with the driver) and maybe a few bags. Rear shoulder and leg room are tight in either. If you had to have one of these pick you up from the airport, you'd have to hope an Escape was available and even that doesn't have the cargo room of the Crown Vic.

My daily driver is a Crown Vic PI. 5 adults (including driver) can ride comfortably in it and carry a decent amount of luggage. 6 people would fit fine if I had a bench seat up front instead of buckets.

While hybrids save a ton of gas when used as taxis:

Gasoline costs in taxi use*: Crown Vic. $8750.00, Prius $2550.00, Escape (hybrid) $3850.00. (*$3/50/gal., 35,000 mi./yr., 100% city driving--using the fueleconomy.gov calculator)

None of them (except the newest PriusC) are small cars. At worst the Prius is a mid-sized car equal to a Chevy Malibu or Ford Fusion. As for interior dimensions, these are all from Motor Trend online:

Crown Vic.: Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches): 39.5, rear headroom (inches): 37.7, front hip room (inches): 57.6, rear hip room (inches): 58.7, front leg room (inches): 41.6, rear leg room (inches): 38.4, front shoulder room (inches): 60.8, rear shoulder room (inches): 60.3 and interior volume (cu ft): 109.8

Prius: Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches): 38.6, rear headroom (inches): 37.6, front hip room (inches): 52.7, rear hip room (inches): 51.2, front leg room (inches): 42.5, rear leg room (inches): 36.0, front shoulder room (inches): 54.9, rear shoulder room (inches): 53.1 and interior volume (cu ft): 93.7

Escape: Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches): 40.4, rear headroom (inches): 39.2, front hip room (inches): 53.3, rear hip room (inches): 49.1, front leg room (inches): 41.6, rear leg room (inches): 35.6, front shoulder room (inches): 56.6 and rear shoulder room (inches): 55.9

Cargo Room: Cargo room: 2008 Ford Crown Victoria: 21 cu. ft., 2014 Toyota Prius (rear seats not folded): 22 cu. ft., 2012 Ford Escape: 31 cu. ft.

--Note that while the Crown Vic. enjoys a 6" advantage in rear hip room over the Prius, it actually has less rear leg room than the Prius. Also note that the Crown Vic. has the smallest trunk of all three cars.

[Guest Skyking]

So what's your capacity at Toyota, a salesman?

[R W Burgess]

Even the dealers don't like it:

I was in a local Chevy dealer showroom a couple weeks ago hitting him for a tour sponsorship. (He bought one)

We were talking about the SS Chevy in the showroom.

Noticing the heavy rear brakes and wide based tires I asked if it was rear wheel drive????

"Why, yes it is. It has a Corvette engine, and special suspension!"

Really????? Where does it say that? That's when I asked the stupid question...

"When are you guys going to post the big signs?"

LOOK AT OUR NEW HIGH POWERED SEDAN!

Well, he said that they would not make that many, and.........

So, in other words..."What's the point?"

This dealership owner, who has been in business since the '60's, told me to my face, that these cars were so generic that it saddened him.

What more can I say? American automobiles now are the most boring vehicles I have ever seen. Who do we blame???

[joe_padavano]

They used to say that Pontiac builds excitement but now that Pontiac is gone GM only builds excrement.

Aw, GM built excrement even when Pontiac was still around...

[dan at larescorp]

Ahhh the Pontiac Plaztek lol. I know they made special body designs for crash protection, but I just cant wrap my head around having that much plastic while going down the freeway.

[Bleach]

While hybrids save a ton of gas when used as taxis:

Gasoline costs in taxi use*: Crown Vic. $8750.00, Prius $2550.00, Escape (hybrid) $3850.00. (*$3/50/gal., 35,000 mi./yr., 100% city driving--using the fueleconomy.gov calculator)

None of them (except the newest PriusC) are small cars. At worst the Prius is a mid-sized car equal to a Chevy Malibu or Ford Fusion. As for interior dimensions, these are all from Motor Trend online:

Crown Vic.: Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches): 39.5, rear headroom (inches): 37.7, front hip room (inches): 57.6, rear hip room (inches): 58.7, front leg room (inches): 41.6, rear leg room (inches): 38.4, front shoulder room (inches): 60.8, rear shoulder room (inches): 60.3 and interior volume (cu ft): 109.8

Prius: Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches): 38.6, rear headroom (inches): 37.6, front hip room (inches): 52.7, rear hip room (inches): 51.2, front leg room (inches): 42.5, rear leg room (inches): 36.0, front shoulder room (inches): 54.9, rear shoulder room (inches): 53.1 and interior volume (cu ft): 93.7

Escape: Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches): 40.4, rear headroom (inches): 39.2, front hip room (inches): 53.3, rear hip room (inches): 49.1, front leg room (inches): 41.6, rear leg room (inches): 35.6, front shoulder room (inches): 56.6 and rear shoulder room (inches): 55.9

Cargo Room: Cargo room: 2008 Ford Crown Victoria: 21 cu. ft., 2014 Toyota Prius (rear seats not folded): 22 cu. ft., 2012 Ford Escape: 31 cu. ft.

--Note that while the Crown Vic. enjoys a 6" advantage in rear hip room over the Prius, it actually has less rear leg room than the Prius. Also note that the Crown Vic. has the smallest trunk of all three cars.

Wow you have really altered the heck out of the dimensions to favor the Prius. These are nothing like what is published in KBB

Here are the three compared which I can verify against the car I personally own.

http://www.kbb.com/compare-cars/specs/2011-ford-crown-victoria-352514-vs-2012-toyota-prius-373440-vs-2012-ford-escape-364411/

[dictator27]

With all due respect to Americans who complain about "high" gas prices, I humbly suggest that they come to my area and see what we pay. We have the highest gas prices in North America here. Using Dave@Moon's figures for the Crown Vic ($8750 /$3.50 US gal.) that equals 2500 gallons. The price of regular gas here this morning is $1,51/litre. There are 3.78 litres in a US gallon, therefore 3.78 x 1.51 = $5.71/US gal. I live in Canada so converting to Imperial gallons is 4.54 x 1.51 or $6.87/Imp. gallon. Multiplying 2500 x $5.71 = $14,275 or $17,150 for Imperial gallons. Using those figures, the Crown Vic is no longer viable as a taxi here. It is a dinosaur and thankfully has been discontinued. Toyota has a firm grip on taxi fleets here, which are dominated by Priuses and Corollas. Police forces here (RCMP and city) still have some Crown Vics, but are gradually being replaced by Fusions and Explorers. GM has very little presence as a police vehicle here. One city has gone over to Nissan, using Altimas and Maximas.

Again guys, all due repect, but when it comes to gas prices kwitcherbellyakin. You've got it easy.

Terry

Edited May 29, 2014 by dictator27 (see edit history)

[Bleach]

I don't think Taxi companies are charging any less whether they shuttle you around in a Prius or a Crown Vic. If paying the same I would expect a CV.

I don't bellyache about fuel prices. I bought my CV used. I paid much less than a new car down payment for it. My monthly fuel costs are about 1/2 of what an average new car payment would be. My maintenance costs combined with a few unscheduled low cost minor repairs have been less than average. I also don't worry about insuring the car in full nor do I worry if something will happen or someone steals this car when I leave it parked in a parking lot.