What is Considered Antique?

[Guest Dee Jay]

First I would like to say that I really appreciate this site and the people that post here. I have gone to some sites where it seems that if you're not part of the "In Crowd", you are ignored. Now for my question. According to aaca guidelines, what vehicles are considered antique? Thank You

[Shop Rat]

Vehicles that are 25 years old or older.

[joe_padavano]

Vehicles that are 25 years old or older.

Is that the AACA definition? States may vary for registration purposes, but 25 years is probably most common.

[Shop Rat]

Is that the AACA definition? States may vary for registration purposes, but 25 years is probably most common.

Yes, that is the AACA requirement for their national shows. Local Regions and Chapters sometimes hold shows that welcome other than that.

Regarding state by state requirements, that is their laws as to who can get the special antique plates for vehicles.

[Guest rmongoose]

It seems to me that twenty years or so ago there used to be a general rule most folks felt that a vehicle was considered a "Classic" at age twenty and "Antique" at age forty

Just my nickle minus three cents.

[Booreatta]

Vehicles that are 25 years old or older.

In Kansas the vehicle must be at least 35 years old

[MCHinson]

According to aaca guidelines, what vehicles are considered antique?

Shop Rat's answer was the answer to the question that was asked. That is the AACA Definition. Many States have different legal answers to the question. But Shop Rat correctly answered the question asked.

Coming up with one all correct all inclusive definition of "Antique Vehicle" is impossible.

[poci1957]

Coming up with one all correct all inclusive definition of "Antique Vehicle" is impossible.

I don't think it is hard at all--25 years old as per the AACA. Likewise Classic--as defined by the CCCA list. The hard part is to get people to use and/or accept the terms. Mongoose's definition above is novel, as was that of the new guy in the nearby "what is a classic?" thread. People love to say classic so much that they just make stuff like that up and it never stops.

No offense to mongoose, as we have all heard so many definitions who can know what to think.

Excuse me while I go to lunch in my classic Ford Escape.

Edited March 2, 2010 by poci1957 (see edit history)

[Guest rmongoose]

I don't think it is hard at all--25 years old as per the AACA. Likewise Classic--as defined by the CCCA list. The hard part is to get people to use and/or accept the terms. Mongoose's definition above is novel, as was that of the new guy in the nearby "what is a classic?" thread. People love to say classic so much that they just make stuff like that up and it never stops.

No offense to mongoose, as we have all heard so many definitions who can know what to think.

Excuse me while I go to lunch in my classic Ford Escape.

I'm not offened, it's hard for me to imagine a 1990 anything as a "Classic".

[R W Burgess]

I'm not offened, it's hard for me to imagine a 1990 anything as a "Classic".

Hang around until 2015, Goose. You will have young people pointing at those "old" Fords and Chevys wondering why they look so "funny"???????:confused:

Wayne

[alsancle]

The problem is the arrogant appropriation of common English terms by self proclaimed arbiters of usage.

The question (if you get past the subject line) and response were specific to the AACA. Absolutely appropriate!

But to allow the AACA or CCCA to define what the terms "antique" and "classic" mean in the English language is utter nonsense

The CCCA started using the word "Classic" over 50 years ago to describe certain cars, same for the AACA. The terms "antique" & "classic" have very specific meanings to knowledgeable cars guys and it makes communicating much easier when words means something. Why does that not make sense?

[poci1957]

The CCCA started using the word "Classic" over 50 years ago to describe certain cars, same for the AACA. The terms "antique" & "classic" have very specific meanings to knowledgeable cars guys and it makes communicating much easier when words means something. Why does that not make sense?

I agree alsuncle.

The AACA was the first known antique car organization in 1935 and the CCCA was formed later (1948?) specifically to cover their list of Classics. They were there first to set the definitions and I am OK with that.

[Richard Lichtfel]

In Wisconsin a car has to be 40 years old to get an Antique vehicle license plate. The plate is good for the life of the car as long as it is registered and in Wisconsin. There are restrictions though. You are only supposed to use the car for shows or club functions. Any car that is 25 years old can have a Collector plate, the only restriction is that it can not be driven in January. There is a one time fee and the plate is good until you sell the car.

I have been collecting cars for 60 years and I do think the terminology should be changed. A 1985 car is definetly not an antique, it is a collectable though.

Before I register for an antique car tour I have to check on the miles and speed that the tour is set up for. Someone that lays out a tour with their

"antique" 1985 Cadillac will have higher speeds and faster roads than I can travel with my 1916 Peerless. The AACA has done a good job setting up different tour classes, the Brass & Gas, one & two cylinder and Nickel tours for the older cars but there just are not enough of them. Years ago I had the newest car on most tours with my 1916 but today I am usually the oldest. I came to an AACA club tour a few years ago with my Peerless and was told that my car was too old for the tour. Hmmmmmm antique cars!

RHL

[CarlLaFong]

The VCC-GB was founded in 1930 which predates the AACA.

Antique is from Latin to refer to earlier times and has been an English word since at least 1530.

Classic is from Latin for high-class as (opposed to low-class) and was an English word by 1613.

The AACA and CCCA cannot claim precedence or exclusivity on the terms even if their internal usage of "antique" and "classic" conforms with the base roots of words.

Did you sign up here simply to argue semantics. We can play this game all day long. Since this is a site devoted to old cars and their fans, the question, and it's answer, should be considered within those parameters. Nobody is claiming precedence or exclusivity to the words in their broad meanings, only when applied to automobiles. Loosen up and enjoy the show.

[poci1957]

The VCC-GB was founded in 1930 which predates the AACA.

Antique is from Latin to refer to earlier times and has been an English word since at least 1530.

Classic is from Latin for high-class as (opposed to low-class) and was an English word by 1613.

The AACA and CCCA cannot claim precedence or exclusivity on the terms even if their internal usage of "antique" and "classic" conforms with the base roots of words.

It's OK, as you correctly point out I should revise my statement to say most recognize the AACA as America's first antique car organization, founded in 1935.

Your definition above would seem to make the CCCA use of "Classic" very appropriate, actually the closest to their (high class) definition of anyone here. As such I do not know why you would encourage lesser (low class) application of the term.

If the point is that of Green Dragon--that it is awkward to label cars of 1916 and 1985 both as antique--then I agree. But it seems adding another layer of terms would be difficult as we are still arguing over the ones we have. Actually, the Wisconsin license plate terms seem sensible to me.

[alsancle]

I'm not sure why you are hung up on this being an "arrogant" sort of thing. I love bathtub porches too, but personally I don't use the word "Classic" when talking about them because its not the way "car guys" I know talk.

That said, if I'm talking cars with someone and they use "Classic" to describe an 82 Yugo, I will politely change the subject because I know we are on different wave lengths.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Alsancle, well put sir! Breaking my vow not to waste time on this ongoing argument long enough to say, once pointed out if someone cannot simply understand and use the terms as defined by AACA & CCCA, and used by most serious collectors, it is then most likely best to move on as I am probably not on the same page as that person...

[Shop Rat]

Y'all can argue until the cows come home, the only thing that matters HERE on the AACA forums is their definitions of antique and classic.

And how those terms apply to how the AACA operates as to putting vehicles into classes so that the ones together are "similar". It also helps the spectators that want to see certain eras or makes/models (ie. Mustangs, Corvettes ect.) but maybe are not interested in others.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Shop Rat (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

WOW. Have watched this thread from begining. I believe the only thing we can ALL agree on is that some disagree. Personally, I LIKE black haired ladies. Nothing wrong with blonds and bruenets. A person is a child until 25. If you are younger than that and do not like it, come around next year and we will talk about it!!

GEEEZEE!!

Ben

[LINC400]

As I have already stated on another post, it always amuses me when someone says that the AACA and CCCA do not own the English language, and have no right to make up definitions for the words "Classic" or "antique". Then we hear their version of what these words are supposed to mean based on their own made up definitions or what they heard from their neighbor's cousin's father who made up their own definition years ago. And we are all supposed to agree with that definition.

Antique is based on age, nothing more, nothing less. For AACA, that is 25 years old. It is the same for many states as well. It does not matter if it has air conditioning or a hand crank to start it. Or what was considered an antique when you graduated high school, or if it was new when you first got married. If it is 25 years or older now, it is an antique whether it is a 1918 Packard Twin Six or 1985 Ford Escort.

If you have a chair from 1860, that would be an antique. So if someone has a chair from 1530, does that make the 1860 chair not an antique or less of one? I don't think so. Would you like it if the person with the chair from 1530 told you your 1916 Cadillac is not an antique because it is nowhere near as old as his chair? It is not even 100 years old. You could have driven a new Cadillac in 1916 to pick up his 1530 chair from an antique store. It is the same with people with 1975 or 1985 cars. They do not like to hear that you consider their cars not an antique or less of one, just because it is not old enough for your personal taste. It is based on age of the car only, not your personal opinion of it. And you are insulting them and their car.

Sorry but a 1985 Cadillac is an antique, and next year, a 1986 will be. And in 10 years, a 1995 will be. And if you don't think so, there were people that thought your 1915, 1940, or 1955 were not worthy of the term at one point also. But they were as soon as they hit 25 years, regardless of what those people thought.

Edited March 3, 2010 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[Big Beat]

One of my other hobbies is old guitars. There, we don't use "classic" or "antique". The term is "vintage". Of course, there are just as many vintage guitar collectors who argue about the definition of "vintage", and every now and then some smart alec pipes up about how the original and correct usage of the word should only refer to wine and that therefore only the wine collectors should have the right to use it. This kind of thing is universal

Personally, I think "antique", referring to cars, should be re-defined as "pre-1948", with the same kind of firm cut-off date that the CCCA has. And anything newer can be "special interest", "collectible", small-c "classic" or yes, even "vintage". But I certainly don't try to impose this idea on anyone. For better or worse, in this hobby, antique = 25 years old. Like it or not, get used to it.

[1937hd45]

I've been in the hobby long enough to know what is what, so do my friends. If it makes the reprogramed people and newbies happy there is no differance between my wifes daily driver 1985 Ford and my 1912 Ford. The 1912 is a keeper the '85 gets crushed when it dies.

[Big Beat]

Most of us here are aware of the difference. And I, for one, consider it absurd that ANYTHING from 1985 should be called an antique, whether it's cars or Boy George LPs. But what we have here is a hobby-specific, de-facto standard, which has nothing to do with regular English usage.

[Guest DuaneK]

I was born in 1937. My Dodge is 1937. I am not an antique. I am old. So I just say my Dodge is an old car.

[MCHinson]

This horse has been beaten to death on this Forum many times. It does not get any deader nor does it get more interesting. Don't we have more interesting things to stress over and to argue about?

[LINC400]

I've been in the hobby long enough to know what is what, so do my friends. If it makes the reprogramed people and newbies happy there is no differance between my wifes daily driver 1985 Ford and my 1912 Ford. The 1912 is a keeper the '85 gets crushed when it dies.

Are there any differences between a 65 A.D. Roman urn, 1506 Leonardo da Vinci painting, 1861 Confederate cannon, and a 1912 Cracker Jack prize? Yes, plenty. But they are all antiques.

So what exactly is your definition of an antique? Nothing with "fancy geegaws"? Most 1950's cars could be ordered with power accessories and automatic everything. So could some 1940's cars. On the other hand I have seen 1910 highwheelers that look absolutely primitive compared to a 1912 Ford. Does that mean your 1912 Ford is not an antique? Does it have to be prewar? So a 1942 Lincoln Continental and Packard Clipper are antiques, but nearly identical 1947's are not? Pre-1930, 1920, or 1912? So no car was ever the same in 1929-30 or 1919-20? How about a Model T from 1908-27? The 1985 is mass produced an high volume? A Model T isn't? The 1985 is slapped together with cheap materials? Is your 1912 Ford made with the same quality of materials as a Duesenberg or Isotta Fraschini? Or is it because that is what you or someone else first started collecting 25 or 50 years ago?

The AACA is required to provide a definition of antique by the very name of the club. So should they use an unbiased definition based on age, or a definition of "What this guy and his buddies first started collected years ago, provided it isn't a car they don't like"? Should we use that description for the next 50-100 years?

[poci1957]

Earlier in this post 1910 anon said that to some an antique is a car "older than I am". I rather like that reference as a defense of why the 25 year rule is a good one.

As we have documented (at length) here the argument over "real" antiques has gone on since the formative years of the club, with a faction of old timers always sneering at the inclusion of a new group of "antiques" that are too modern for them to appreciate. But the 25 year rule serves to keep a prospective new batch of cars and owners coming in every year and I applaud that, even as I am now at the age when I feel like the sneering old timers myself.

Unlike so many I know what a real Classic is, and as such I respect them for being a superior class of car. I have a 1995 Mazda Miata that I think is something of a modern small c "classic" but I do not refer to it with that term, I would feel like an idiot doing so with such a car. In ten years it will be an antique and in the meantime I will not gripe that I should be part of a redefinition just to get my car into a show early. The definitions have been there since before I was and I do not know why they continue to be so hard for people to accept.

[Terry Bond]

Well I like old cars (and motorcycles).

Going to go polish some brass, then pack for the meet in Fla where I'll check out the sports car class, then probably go look at muscle cars. Last night we donated our 99 Plymouth Voyager to charity. Should have kept it I guess.

Terry

[CarlLaFong]

I believe Mr. Anon is here,simply, to nit pick and to impress the rubes with his vast and comprehensive knowledge of etymology. As previously posted, this horse has suffered enough. There is never a winner. How many have walked away muttering, "I don't care what anyone says, my Pinto, Chevette, Yugo or whatever, is a classic." We all believe what we choose to believe or what makes us feel good. It's not going to change and so many fine horses will end up paying the consequences

[Shop Rat]

..... then pack for the meet in Fla where I'll check out the sports car class, .....Terry

Then be on the lookout for our friend Rodger Woodrum, he usually judges in that class. Nice guy for sure. He stays with us in our RV at shows.

[1937hd45]

58Mustang, The club is so "antique", this is 2010, time for an upgrade., a nice Ingersoll Rand Roller would flatten that horse and others much more efficiently.

[1937hd45]

Are there any differences between a 65 A.D. Roman urn, 1506 Leonardo da Vinci painting, 1861 Confederate cannon, and a 1912 Cracker Jack prize? Yes, plenty. But they are all antiques.

So what exactly is your definition of an antique? Nothing with "fancy geegaws"? Most 1950's cars could be ordered with power accessories and automatic everything. So could some 1940's cars. On the other hand I have seen 1910 highwheelers that look absolutely primitive compared to a 1912 Ford. Does that mean your 1912 Ford is not an antique? Does it have to be prewar? So a 1942 Lincoln Continental and Packard Clipper are antiques, but nearly identical 1947's are not? Pre-1930, 1920, or 1912? So no car was ever the same in 1929-30 or 1919-20? How about a Model T from 1908-27? The 1985 is mass produced an high volume? A Model T isn't? The 1985 is slapped together with cheap materials? Is your 1912 Ford made with the same quality of materials as a Duesenberg or Isotta Fraschini? Or is it because that is what you or someone else first started collecting 25 or 50 years ago?

The AACA is required to provide a definition of antique by the very name of the club. So should they use an unbiased definition based on age, or a definition of "What this guy and his buddies first started collected years ago, provided it isn't a car they don't like"? Should we use that description for the next 50-100 years?

Slow day?

[LINC400]

Slow day?

No, just simple logic. Unlike "any car older than me". Especially when they don't say how old they are.

Edited March 4, 2010 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[LINC400]

I believe Mr. Anon is here,simply, to nit pick and to impress the rubes with his vast and comprehensive knowledge of etymology. As previously posted, this horse has suffered enough. There is never a winner. How many have walked away muttering, "I don't care what anyone says, my Pinto, Chevette, Yugo or whatever, is a classic." We all believe what we choose to believe or what makes us feel good. It's not going to change and so many fine horses will end up paying the consequences

So when someone new comes along wondering if their car can be shown in an AACA show and asks "What is considered an antique?", should we say

1. We've beaten this horse many times, and no one can agree on anything.

2. Anything older than Bubba, except we don't know how old he is.

3. Anything that was considered antique when Billy and his buddies first started collecting years ago.

OR

Anything 25 years or older

[alsancle]

So when someone new comes along wondering if their car can be shown in an AACA show and asks "What is considered an antique?", should we say

1. We've beaten this horse many times, and no one can agree on anything.

2. Anything older than Bubba, except we don't know how old he is.

3. Anything that was considered antique when Billy and his buddies first started collecting years ago.

OR

Anything 25 years or older

No, we should teach them how to use the search function so they can look at the roughly 300 posts on the subject. I think many times these newbies are simply trolls trying to get a rise out of everyone.

[MCHinson]

Actually the first post asked a question. Post number two completely and correctly answered that question. Everything after that was mostly just unnecessary arguing back and forth...

[ted sweet]

my head hurts

[Guest Dee Jay]

I am sorry my question caused so much controversy. The thought of that happening never entered my mind,despite what some may believe. I simply had a question and did not know where or how to access the information so this seemed to be the appropriate place to ask.

[Guest dan_caine]

In the United States, an antique car is generally defined as a car over 45 years of age, this being the definition used by the Antique Automobile Club of America. However, the legal definition for the purpose of antique vehicle registration varies widely.

The term classic car is often used synonymously with antique car, but (in the United States) the formal definition of that term has it as applying only to certain specific high-quality vehicles from the pre-World War II era. In the UK, the term is not used: antique often refers to an item over 100 years old and cars of this age are termed Vintage.

20 years is about double the design life of modern cars and an even greater increment on those cars now 20 years old; therefore, a car that's reached 25 is a Classic, these and Antique cars are often not economical to maintain as regular transportation.

Source: wikipedia.org

[poci1957]

I am sorry my question caused so much controversy. The thought of that happening never entered my mind,despite what some may believe. I simply had a question and did not know where or how to access the information so this seemed to be the appropriate place to ask.

Not at all DeeJay, it is indeed a perfectly appropriate question for you to ask. This is just a little internal issue that flares up among ourselves sometimes and I only hope you are not put off by it, hope you will come back and join in on other better topics.

Signed,

The Arrogant Source of All the Argument

PS--the wikepedia 45 year date above is incorrect too, made up by someone

Edited March 4, 2010 by poci1957 (see edit history)