TexRiv_63 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I have just acquired a 1932 Cadillac V12 5-passenger sedan. These days I'm not sure if I am fortunate or crazy, but right now I feel fortunate. This is an older restoration with a sad paint job but everything else appears to be in great shape. I am still checking it over but my immediate goal is to get it to pass state inspection so I can license it and drive it without restrictions. So far the only problem I have is finding a replacement headlight bulb, it uses a weird three-filament bulb and I will post on the buy and sell to see if anyone has one.I will be joining the Cadillac-LaSalle Club and would like to hear from anyone with experience in this model who can help with potential pitfalls or other useful advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Try http://classicautobulbs.com/.I've never used these guys, but I've seen them reccommended several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Nice car. Good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 For pure elegance, it's hard to surpass a 1932 Cadillac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldohioan Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 This is one fabulous automobile. Fortunate is a mild word for the situation.May I put in my .02? I see it as kinda like an antique revolver or rifle with some blueing worn. To shoot it would possibly destroy its value.Should you maybe only drive it for cruises, shows, parades and other special ocassions to protect its value for history? You're just its 'caretaker' ;-)Id still seek the headlight but surely wouldnt want to register as a daily driver.Good luck with whatever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Wow, what a "fortunate" situation.Run the wheels off of it, as we are only here a short while I'd hate to rip it apart for paint. That must be laquer the way it is flaking? If so, a talented guy could fix what's wrong with it, without a full paint job.I see to many cars that were torn down "just for paint" and are now incomplete "estate finds". JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Walling Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Failure of a large area such as the rear fender is usually due to lack of sanding on a cured primer under enamel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 That is a very fine ride and I would be proud as a peacock to drive it every day. My '31 Dodge is usually a daily driver. Some people think that I am crazy for taking it here and there and everywhere, but if you want to enjoy it, DRIVING it is the real true way to have fun with it. Looking at it is joyful and appealing, but driving is the real cure for this old car bug that we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: F&J</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a talented guy could fix what's wrong with it, without a full paint job.</div></div>In this case, part of the "what's wrong with it" is the color, so a full paint job may be in order. But I agree, drive it, drive it, drive it.Nice car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 A nice two tone mint and dark green would be sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Find a set of 32 plates at a swap meet and register as YOM. Then in Texas you dont have to get it inspected.Is this going to be a fill in for the Pierce Arrow you are working on ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I wouldn't say there are any pitfalls I can tell you about but I can give you some useful information. The first thing you want to do is buy a service manual. There are 2 versions of the V12. The 30/31 has a pair of troublesome carbs & vacuum tanks. The 32-37 has a mechanical fuel pump with Detroit Lubricator carbs. The later version is quite reliable and simple to maintain. The fuel pump is driven by a push rod & lobe off the timing gears. The push rod tends to ware down and cause low pump action. The Detroit Lubs are very simple. Just an idle stop screw and a mixture adjustment needle. It is important that these 2 carbs are balanced. Buy a pair of identical vacuum gauges. Disconnect the vacuum lines on top of each intake manifold, screw in a fitting so you can connect a gauge to each manifold. The shop manual will step you through a simple procedure. I have a 1935 that I tuned up, new plugs, points (dual) and balanced the carbs about 15 years and 18,000 miles ago and haven't touched since. If not abused, these are 100,000 plus mile engines that can go about 20,000 between tune ups.The carbs are updraft but they have the advantage that the carbs, fuel pump & fuel lines are all below and away from the exhaust heat. Vapor lock that can sometimes be a problem with the flat head V8 is not a problem with these cars. if you have a hot starting problem with a V12 Cadillac it is probably electrical. These have 2 coils. Old coils tend to fail when hot.Your brakes are vacuum assisted mechanical. These are a bit tricky. There is no real equalization so you have to adjust the brakes individually. The manual gives you a procedure but it may require a few test drives & readjustments to get it to stop straight. The brakes slow you down quick but as the engine slows, the vacuum drops and it always seems to roll a few extra feet more than you expect. If everything is working properly, The brakes work well and you can lock all 4 if you have to and come to a straight stop. The vacuum comes from the manifold fittings and a vacuum pump that is mounted on top of the bell housing behind the blocks. You can gain access to it through a floor panel. It is a diaphramm type similar to a fuel pump. The booster also has a diaphram that can ware out. The V12 is a powerful 150 HP with lots of torque. You sometimes wonder why it has a first gear. You can drive it 60 on the highway as long as you keep in mind the mechanical brake limitations. With 17" wheels, it should ride and handle well at reasonable speeds.I would also recommend that you consider joining the CCCA. Like most mark clubs, The Cad LaSalles Club went hot rod, ("modified") a few years ago. They promote Nova sub frames & engine swaps these days and you have too nice of a car to do that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Boltendal Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 The Cadillac LaSalle club certainly didn't go hot rod, they did accept a modified chapter under their wings, among many others. I'm a member with my '30 and '32 Cadillac for almost40 years now and the club has a wealth of knowledge towards the early cars,to name a few; fellow members owning the same cars,technicians who know a lot(not all) of your specific car,authenticity manuals,a very nice monthly club magazine and so on.A very nice car you got your self,compliments Johan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Thanks to all who responded. I will definitely be selling my Riviera, it will go on Ebay this friday. My Pierce is a work in progress and I have gotten it to the "drive around the neighborhood" stage but it needs a lot more attention before I would be comfortable with it on the open road. The Cadillac appears to be much more suitable for "regular" driving without much work. When I say "regular" I'm not talking about a commuter car, it will only come out on nice days and probabaly will not be sitting alone for very long. I just don't want the potential restrictions connected with antique plates. The paint is pretty bad, both in color choice and condition. It supposedly was painted in the 70s and looks like the old "30 coats of hand rubbed lacquer". Very thick, brittle, and coming off in chunks. No rust visible, looks like poor prep of the primer. I'm not going to worry about it right now and may try some touch-up later, but a full paint job is not in the cards in the foreseeable future unless I win the Lotto. Jdome, thanks for all the tips. The odometer shows 39,917 miles, I find that hard to believe but if so the engine is just broken in! The guy I bought the car from disassembled the carbs to clean them and found that the accelerator pump springs were installed incorrectly sometime in the past. The previous owner had told him it had never started well or run right but after he fixed the springs it runs quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigersdad Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Don,Beautiful car! I just bought a '31 Cadillac this past week. I'd leave the car the way it is for time being until you actually decide what you want to do with it. Once you go forward, there is no going back! Happy driving!Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Great car, congratulations Don. If your Pierce Arrow is still in progress I would certainly not disable this car until that one is ready to go. I guess Jay Leno once observed that one always needs an old car to drive while the other is under restoration and I agree with that sentiment. Having two cars in stages of disassembly is bad for the morale unless you are retired and working on them 40 hours a week, and maybe even then. Enjoy it now, repaint it later, I say, the pictures show that even with the paint it is still an elegant beauty . And good luck on the Pierce too. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_CarFreak Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdome</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Like most mark clubs, The Cad LaSalles Club went hot rod, ("modified") a few years ago. They promote Nova sub frames & engine swaps these days and you have too nice of a car to do that. </div></div>Pardon my French, but that statement is a bunch of horse puckey! (B.S.) There is now a Modified Chapter of the Cadillac & LaSalle Club but that does not mean the entire CLC organization is promoting Nova subframes and engine swaps. Just where are you getting your information???? Wow. The reason I logged in was to post a comment to this thread that a Chapter of the CLC happens to have online an original 1932 Cadillac V12 sales brochure and recommend you check it out if you don't have one. Funny, that it just happens to be on the Modified Chapter CLC website. http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/documents/1930s/1932/Hey wait, I am a member of that group. We've been working the past couple years to scan and have available online many 1000s of pages of original Cadillac & LaSalle service, sales, technical and other information. The funnier part of jdome's comment is that although the Modified Chapter's credo is to make modifications to their own choice a majority of cars owned and restored by MCLC members are for the most part stock. In fact they might only be 'modified' to include safety updates. Let's see some hands - who knows of an 'original restored' car that had an electric fuel pump added, maybe a post-war Hydramatic on their 1941 or 1942 car? Or change to a dual master cylinder instead of single? An extra terminal post (ground) on a starter? Those are all modifications!!! Yes there are those persons (in the CLC Modified Chapter) doing much more serious modifications but they are in the minority even within the Modified Chapter. <span style="font-weight: bold">As for the Cadillac & LaSalle Club as a whole, their purpose and intent is still to encourage the preservation and authentic restoration of Cadillacs & LaSalles. </span> jdome, I really would like to hear where you acquired this misconception. It is just wrong and a shame that you are spreading mis-truths. PS - the Buick Club has a Modified Division too does that mean their entire organization is also promoting Nova subframes & engine changes too?????? Inquiring minds want to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Poci1957, I hope to not disable either car for a while, I'd like to drive them both!Carfreak, as a CLC member for 3 days I am very happy so far. Love the brochure and will print it out as soon as I can, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 TEXRIV, I'm not sure I understand how the accelerator pump springs could be installed wrong. It's been awhile since I've had a carb apart but if I remember correct the spring is just a coil spring that will only fit in one spot, there's no upside down? I suspect there was another problem. You mentioned that the previous owner took the carbs apart to clean them and then it ran OK. There is a very tiny air hole in the cast iron throttle body that may have been clogged. Air is sucked through the hole when the engine runs. The choke is controlled by a thermostat screwed to the exhaust manifold. The choke knob on the dash doesnt do much except when pulled out all the way it acts as a primer for cold starting. When you pull it out it activates a valve that closes off that air hole which diverts the suction to the fuel bowl to suck raw gas into the cylinders. Kind of like filling primer cups from the drivers seat. If That air hole is plugged or partly clogged It will continue to feed a super rich mixture to that bank. I know from experience that you can't get it to lean out even if you adjust the needle all the way. It may idle OK but it will sputter & accelerate rough. It might fool you into believing you have an ignition problem. That is something I forgot to tell you to keep an eye on. It is not a common problem but if it clogs it can be one of those frustrating problems if you don't know what to look for. I know someone who spent hours trying the get his freshly restored Detroit Lubs to run right. It turned out that when he brush painted the throttle body he got paint down inside the holes and plugged them up & didn't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Very nice automobile. Drive it like you stole it. As far as the colors and comments about them, the 32 color chips I have show it as STRAW and BURNT ORANGE MOON. The colors look very close. Don't take it apart, drive it the way she is, it looks fine. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Wow. I guess you guys told me. I suggest you re-read my last paragraph carefully and not quote me out of context. "I would ALSO suggest that you join the CCCA." I did not suggest that TEXRIV not join the CLC. My interest is in brass & Classic Cadillacs. Both types I believe are under promoted, represented, encouraged (insert your preferred term) in the CLC. Had someone recently purchased a brass Cadillac I would have recommended they join the HCCA which would be more informative for them. "Electric fuel pumps and extra ground straps are modifications too." Well ya got me there. But isn't it a bit of a stretch to equate elect. pumps with wholesale drive train swaps which are more typical of the Modified Division. An extra ground strap is justification for altering body & chassis??? As you suggest, the CLC & BCA do encourage authenticity. They both require that a modified have some vintage engine block of their respective make under all that aftermarket speed equipment. "These are Buicks, lets keep them that way." is the BCA's rational for that requirement. Can't argue with that kind of "authentic" encouragement. I've been a member of the CLC since the early 70's. I'm well aware of what the club stands for & what cars show up at the locals & nationals. I'm not trying to be provocative (well maybe just a little) but I've always felt if it is your time, your money & your car, have at it. About 2 years ago my wife brought to my attention that I was spending hundreds of dollars on car magazines and nation & regional memberships. I belong to various mark clubs for makes that I own, have owned, or hope to own someday. Many of these publications were stacked on the nightstand, un-read. I decided to go through the pile of un-reads and not renew the subscriptions of the ones I lost interest in. And as you might suspect the CLC & BCA with their annual modified editions and other modified articles throughout the year were among a handful I didn't renew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryJ Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I don't like the styling on '32 Cadillacs; however, it looks as if you have acquired quite a nice car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 jdome,I only know what the guy told me about the carbs and I know nothing else yet, research started. It does run a little rich and drips some gas out the overflow tubes when it sits, just a few drops. I'll look for those holes you describe. How do you check the float level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 I took the day off from work yesterday and was able to get the car registered. First it had to pass State inspection. The guys at the Lube and Tune had definitely not seen a car like this before. The tech who was going to do the inspection said he had to drive the car so I asked him if he had ever driven an antique car. He admitted he had not so we talked to the manager, who said I could drive. The "Drive" consisted of once around the parking lot and a quick stop from 20 mph, no problem. He checked that all the lights worked then asked me to raise the hood on both sides. He finally asked me where the master cylinder was, I told him the car did not have one, it has mechanical brakes. He nodded sagely but I don't think he had ever heard that before! I had thrashed to get the windshield wipers working but he never checked those or asked me to blow the horn. With the inspection certificate in hand I headed for the tax office and registered the car. Their biggest concern was that I paid the sales tax (UGH). All told I drove it about 10 miles or so, the car drives nicely but the old tires are lumpy and shake pretty good, smooths out as speed goes up. I will be doing a full lube and check which will include removing all the wheels and drums so I'll check everything out before driving it much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'd would have liked to be with you that day, Don.I also "borrowed" your car picture above for a publications seminar last week at the AACA Convention in Philadelphia. I used it as copyright demonstration and credited the car to you as the owner. Maybe you'll get a little publicity out of this. Good luck!Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Wayne,Thanks but I need to mention those pictures were not taken by me, they are from the previous owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 That's ok Don. They were used in an Instructional Venue, so harm, no foul.It looked nice on the projector screen. W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 A little rich is OK. Better than lean. You have to remove the cover plate to check the float and it doesn't come off without disassemble. I don't recommend that unless you are prepared to balance the carbs. What do you mean it drips a couple drops when sitting? With engine running or off? A few seconds after you shut it off? It's not uncommon for an updraft to drip a couple drops after you shut it off. Does it have an electric fuel pump that is running after you turn the key off? Don't mean to harp about equalizing the carbs. I'm assuming the previous owner did that and it runs good. It might help to know that the Cadillac V12 design is literally 2 inline 6 cyl engines on one crankshaft. Each bank has a conventional inline 6 firing order. They share a distributor with a dual point rotor. Ech end of the rotor runs one bank and each bank has it's own set of points, coil & carb. Aside from the common crank, each bank is virtually independent of the other. You can actually disable one bank by pulling its coil wire and drive the car on the other bank. Obvious loss of power and with the resistance of all those dead cylinders the throttle lags, but the engine runs as smooth and vibration free as if all 12 were firing. So you can imagine that one carb can be pretty far out of tune before you notice a slight loss of power or sluggish performance. Especially if you are not familiar with how well these engines should run. The strong side will pull the weak side along while the weak side drags the strong side down. The reason I said that running a little rich is OK is because these cars are known to backfire. It will typically happen when you are driving along about 40 and you take your foot off the gas going down a steep hill. A little rumbling is OK but any sign of popping or backfire needs atttention. They are known to blow a muffler. If it backfires, it may mean that one carb or both are on the lean side. Adjusting the carbs a tad rich may cure it. It could also indicate that one side is getting less throttle due to unequal idle adjustment or throttle linkage. OR - it could also be a timing issue. If one side is lean or at a lower throttle setting and pulled along by the other side, that effectively makes it even more lean. Too lean can lead to burnt valves and too rich can cause carbon build up. I know of a sick running, low mileage 12 that was torn down and discovered to have heavy carbon deposits in one bank and all the exhaust valves in the other bank were burnt. It seems it was driven most of those low miles with one side too rich and the other too lean. Glad to hear that your car passed inspection and the brakes are working good. Your "master cylinder" is on the frame in front of the brake pedal. I find it interesting that all series got a new chassis in 34 with the independent front axle. The V8's also went to juice brakes in 34 but the heavier 12 & 16 kept the vacuum/mechanical until 36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 It drips after you shut it off, not a lot but enough that you can smell it. I thought it was coming from the overflow but looking on the passenger side it seemed that the area around the mixture screw was wet. It has an electric pump but I only use it to prime the system after it has been sitting, not while running. I'm going to take a better look this weekend. Regarding the balancing, i'm not sure what the previous owner did but I will definitely recheck it before doing much more driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friartuck Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 On the first picture, can anyone identify the trim used between the center soft top and the body? Looks too flat to be Wire-on and it doesn't look like Hide-Em. Any guesses?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Friartuck,Did you e-mail me about that? I'll try to get some close up photos and post them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdome Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 TEXRIV, I kind of doubted that the drip you described was a float problem. Possible seeping float needle aggravated by too much elect pump pressure. Good idea to just use electric pump to prime the carbs and run on mechanical. When you shut off the car there is a lot of fuel mixture in the manifold that will create a smell & possibly condense and create a drop or 2. I think that is common with updrafts. Did you locate a shop manual yet? There are several pages with illustrations regarding tune up. There was a special equalizing gauge set Cadillic SErvice used for the 12 & 16 but a pair of vacuum gauges will work fine. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 Friartuck,I'm posting the roof trim photos I e-mailed you here also in case others can identify.Jdome,I did get an original shop manual with the car and I have ordered a reproduction parts manual. What's interesting about early shop manuals is how much information is missing! The factories must have had a great deal of faith in the knowledge of their mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friartuck Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Don,Thanks for e-mailing and posting these photos. Now that I see it, perhaps it is Wire-on that's been smacked down with a rubber mallet. Anyone else have an idea what trim this is?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edinmass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice automobile. Drive it like you stole it. As far as the colors and comments about them, the 32 color chips I have show it as STRAW and BURNT ORANGE MOON. The colors look very close. Don't take it apart, drive it the way she is, it looks fine. Ed </div></div>I second this motion. Also, I agree with the the idea of joining the CCCA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edinmass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As far as the colors and comments about them, the 32 color chips I have show it as STRAW and BURNT ORANGE MOON. The colors look very close. Don't take it apart, drive it the way she is, it looks fine. Ed </div></div>Ed,Do you think this color combination might be original? The color chips you refer to, are they from Cadillac and are they reproduced? I would love to know what the factory colors were for this car, is that information part of the package that GM offers thru CLC? So many questions, so little knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Try this page on TCP global paint store.I hope the link workshttp://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1932-cadillac-pg01.jpgThe chart is small, but move the mouse over the words and it magnifies the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 Thanks, I already have that page. Unfortunately it does not show either of the colors mentioned, I was hoping Edinmass had additional details. Ed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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