Guest Mr. Ute Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Hello! I'm fresh off the internet after researching about Coupe Utility-class cars from the early 50s to the early 80s, and I thought I would ask the people who might know more than some older websites (or know people who know more)! I am currently collecting information for a story idea, which will at the least be a short story or series of vignettes, and at most (in the future, of course), be a short or full length film. The main crux is this: Set in Saskatchewan (and likely other places in Canada, as that is my home country), a small group of people are fighting off an invasion from another country (as yet undecided, but this would be set between 1990 and 2020, so it's anyone's guess). As the enemy is fielding tanks and APCs, the ragtag guerilla group of civilians are using older Coupe Utility vehicles with assault guns mounted over the roofs (the mounting is set in the flatbed). For story reasons, these are the only vehicles available to utilize the mounted guns while still being fast enough to avoid return fire from tanks/infantry. They would obviously be retrofitted with armour and lift kits to allow them to withstand the rigours of combat, but the majority of what I am interested in is what sort of ability these utility vehicles had over trucks. Obviously they handled more like cars than trucks, given a lower profile and different mechanics, but in general, I am looking for help understanding the differences in transmissions and engine types, what problems might arise from such a situation (wear and tear on the vehicles from firing the guns, etc), and suggestions for better models and makes if possible. Please feel free to criticize or question; I realize this is a bit outlandish compared to your standard conversations about antique cars. I will provide the specifications I have assigned each make and link to pictures of their general design. - '59 Chevrolet El Camino; 4.6L V8 Engine; 4-Speed Manual Transmission 1959 El Camino 1959 El Camino (Different Angle) - '58 Ford Ranchero; 5.8L V8 Engine; 3-Speed Automatic Transmission Ford Ranchero Ford Ranchero (Back View) - '69 Toyota Crown S50; 2.3L 2M I6 Engine; 4-Speed Manual Transmission Toyota Crown S50 Toyota Crown S50 - '77 Holden Belmont; 4.2L V8 Engine; 3-Speed Automatic Transmission Holden Belmont Holden Belmont - 64 Ford Falcon Deluxe Utility; 3.3L I6 Engine; 2-Speed Automatic Transmission Ford Falcon Deluxe Utility Ford Falcon Deluxe Utility -'79 Ford Durango; 3.3L I6 Engine; 3-Speed Automatic Transmission Ford Durango Ford Durango - '56 Dodge Kingsway Utility; 3.6L I6 Engine; Could not find specifications for Transmission options on this make Dodge Kingsway Coupe Utility Dodge Kingsway Coupe Utility - '72 GMC Sprint; 7.4L V8 Engine; 4-Speed Manual Transmission GMC Sprint GMC Sprint Additionally, if anyone can identify which of these might be faster or slower over each other, that would be of great help. I am woefully uneducated in the world of cars, so most of the specifications are alien to me. Their main tactic is a hit-and-run Wolf pack technique, with the lower-caliber Utes (a common nickname for a Coupe Utility) swinging by in waves from different angles to disorient and confuse the larger and well-armed (not to mention armoured) tanks while the other Utes that have heavier guns take aim. I chose to have the guns mounted over the cab for two reasons: One, it provides a static mount that is close to the main bulk of the vehicle (the engine) and removes the need for complicated turning mechanisms that could jam, and Two, the driver would be driving head-on towards the tanks, providing forward momentum to partially counteract the heavy assault gun firing. Other Utes might have machine guns instead, but the main questions i'm puzzling out involve large tank weaponry mounted on Coupe Utility vehicles. Thank you for your time, and any feedback/criticism is welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Unless this is science fiction my answer would be "none of the above". Only the American made models would even exist on the prairies and they would be vanishingly rare and confined to collectors garages and museums. I can see prairie farm boys putting up a good fight using home made equipment. Possibly 50 caliber machine guns mounted in the box of Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge 4 wheel drive pickup trucks with mud bog tires. The recoil from anything larger like an anti tank gun might be too much for the vehicle. But to set these home made jobs against tanks is not real. Modern tanks could kill them from a mile away (or more). They would have to develop guerilla tactics like a case of dynamite in a culvert, that you can blow as a tank passes over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 It's a movie. It's make believe. Use whatever your fancy dictates..........................Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Carl Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 How much experience do you have in the movie business ? - Cadillac Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Do you have any idea how many Chargers the Dukes of Hazard TV show went through ? Typically they could jump. Once. The cars (were on a car chassis like an El Camino or Ranchero) were not built for any kind of fast rough country driving. Second there is a reason "technicals" mount light machine guns and hand held antitank weapons (bazooka, LAW) are rockets that exhaust out the back of the device. When an A10 was configured for "tankbusting" first they went to full military power before firing or they were liable to stall. Recoil is interesting. Be better to start with a tractor (as in semi, not farm) or flatbed. Besides a diesel can be made to run on almost anything. Rusty has the right idea. Maybe you were watching the El Camino in "Machete Kill" but kids in near stock light utilities against a tank would just be road kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Why is this thread here ? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Mr. Ute said: Hello! I'm fresh off the internet after researching about Coupe Utility-class cars from the early 50s to the early 80s, and I thought I would ask the people who might know more than some older websites (or know people who know more)! I am currently collecting information for a story idea, which will at the least be a short story or series of vignettes, and at most (in the future, of course), be a short or full length film. The main crux is this: Set in Saskatchewan (and likely other places in Canada, as that is my home country), a small group of people are fighting off an invasion from another country (as yet undecided, but this would be set between 1990 and 2020, so it's anyone's guess). As the enemy is fielding tanks and APCs, the ragtag guerilla group of civilians are using older Coupe Utility vehicles with assault guns mounted over the roofs (the mounting is set in the flatbed). For story reasons, these are the only vehicles available to utilize the mounted guns while still being fast enough to avoid return fire from tanks/infantry. They would obviously be retrofitted with armour and lift kits to allow them to withstand the rigours of combat, but the majority of what I am interested in is what sort of ability these utility vehicles had over trucks. Your movie idea reads like a direct rip off from the Mad Max series Coupe Utilities are still made and sold in Australia (but not for much longer) And in Eu, Asia & South America, but often based on 4 cylinder fwd cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 More realistic would be a bunch of Diesel Pickups. You can tune/ modify them to have pretty impressive performance from roasting off the tires and drag racing to mighty pulling machines. What would look wilder than flames from the stacks on each side of the gunner in the bed? After all it is Movie fiction anyways. Probably cheaper and easier to find than any Hudson or Studebaker expresses or at the rate they are going even Elcamino and Rancheros. I could just imagine a 50 Caliber in the bed of a Dodge Rampage or Subaru brat though. You might have a tough time finding either of those though with enough sheetmetal left to attach anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 What, exactly, is a "coupe utility vehicle", a pickup truck of some sort? Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, capngrog said: What, exactly, is a "coupe utility vehicle", a pickup truck of some sort? Cheers, Grog Car based pickup truck from Australia. Think El Camino or Ranchero. First built in the mid thirties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Trulyvintage said: Why is this thread here ? Jim Everything has to be somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 This sounds like a job for Red Green and the Possum Lodge design team. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1939_Buick Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 6 hours ago, capngrog said: What, exactly, is a "coupe utility vehicle", a pickup truck of some sort? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupé_utility A new ute here ttps://www.holden.com.au/cars/ute Believe the V8 is no longer made.sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Suggest you look at film of "technicals", of various insurgent and armed forces, in action to see how they react to weapons mounted on them being fired. Coupe utility vehicles will be lighter (will they even have a separate chassis?) and two wheel drive so won't last long. Your guerillas, driving such light vehicles, will have to be very clever and fast to avoid being shot up a mile away in their first engagement. Remember tank armor is pretty good these days. Depleted uranium (which is very dense) is used in the core of armor-piercing shells so your light vehicles might not be able to carry very many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragtop4two Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Set in Saskatchewan? As someone who is a big fan of the Corner Gas tv series i would find it hard to take the story you described seriously. I would be looking for Dog River being mentioned at least. For anyone here who has never heard of Corner Gas, its a great Canadian comedy set in Dog River Saskatchewan. Im sure you can watch episodes online, check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Mad Max meets Red Dawn meets the Rat Patrol ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, ragtop4two said: Set in Saskatchewan? As someone who is a big fan of the Corner Gas tv series i would find it hard to take the story you described seriously. I would be looking for Dog River being mentioned at least. For anyone here who has never heard of Corner Gas, its a great Canadian comedy set in Dog River Saskatchewan. Im sure you can watch episodes online, check it out. That occurred to me too. For those not familiar with the Canadian prairie watch a few episodes of Corner Gas, and see if you can figure out where you could hide your Mad Max vehicle from a modern tank with a cannon range of several miles, and infra red scope. In BC your invaders would have it much, much tougher. A few deer hunters with a case of dynamite and a few cases of Molotov cocktails could wipe out a dozen tanks if they caught them on a mountain road, Edited July 19, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjay Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 You missed the AMC Cowboy since some of those were custom or one offs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Hornet http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=amc+cowboy&qpvt=amc+cowboy&qpvt=amc+cowboy&qpvt=amc+cowboy&FORM=IGRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captndan Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Wouldn't it be a lot easier to get a surplus ONTOS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Cap: Very Interesting. That led to the M40 106 mm recoilless rifle (anti tank designed for light vehicles). Also the ONTOS were returned to the states, de-armored, and used for construction/rescue work. So it is within feasibility that the locals could have one or two of the hulls. While the ONTOS had a top speed of 30 mph I suspect that without the armor plus a little hotrodding (GM 302 straight 6 was popular for hotrodding in the 50's so nitrous bottles ?) & two guns (was a proposal for amphibious use) it might exceed that. Think you might be ONTOS something. Further the M40 had a 0.50 caliber Remington M8C Spotting Rifle mounted on top which could be replaced with a SMG. Seems within Artistic License that you could find an armory full of M40s (apparently still in use worldwide), plus a couple of surplus ONTOS hulls and mount M40s on a number of technicals as well. Further a little movie magic and HICAMs could have the hulls doing 60MPH +. (Like an M1 with the governor removed). Finally with just a hull mounting twin M40s you are talking about 3 feet high & hide almost anywhere. Speculation like this is fun & an ONTOS (or surplus hull) could be AACA eligible.... Edited July 20, 2017 by padgett (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capngrog Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Having been in the Air Force, I had no idea what an "ONTOS" was, so I looked it up. This is what I found: Is this what you're talking about captndan and padgett? Then I found this thing, the M274 A5 Mechanical Mule mounting a single 106mm recoilless rifle: These, minus the 106mm recoilless rifles, occasionally show up on ebay. When I encountered this, I had to quit surfing and check out my rum supply: Now I think I've seen everything. Cheers, Grog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Think we are on to something here: an anti-tank motorcycle. Talk about a hot seat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP Remember trying a mule north of Vegas, was unsafe at any speed. Think the wheel was designed for an Isetta. Can see the .50 cal "spotting rifle" on top. Edited July 20, 2017 by padgett (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 The "Pig" was quite a sight when it was firing those 106s. At Khe Sanh, after the siege, I salvaged three Mules that had been blown up and managed to build a running one from the junkers. I was told that I couldn't drive it because I had not been to "Mule School". I decided to disregard this bit of pedantic advice. 10 months of combat tends to give you a surly attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, CarlLaFong said: 10 months of combat tends to give you a surly attitude. Didn't take me that long.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captndan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Yes the track vehicle is an ONTOS. We had a few of them in Vietnam. The idea was to sneak up on the target fire the 106's turn around and run like hell. The 50 cal. On top was a single shot spotting rifle. And 60mph is more like it. No armor made of aluminum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Mr. Ute if you are still following this thread I have 2 suggestions. One is to write about something else, something you know about. If you pursue this line you will drop klangers right and left. The other suggestion is to go ahead with your original plan but find someone with combat experience like a Canadian veteran who served in Iraq or Afghanistan. They came up against just the kind of rebels or guerrilas with home made equipment you are talking about. I should think such veterans have a few ideas of their own and some of them are very interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarrsCars Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 To be the odd man out I say go for the list you provided as they would be far more visually interesting to see on screen, and I do like the Red Dawn sort of vibe to the story. It's a movie, so the tech specs aren't terribly relevant but you seem to have an interest in keeping it close to possible. Maybe less heavy guns and more light machine guns, anti tank weapons like RPG, etc. Home made flame throwers would work as well. Sure the tanks could easily dispatch most of these in real life, but heck, even a dozen Stormtroopers can't hit Luke with their blasters so maybe your crew of under-seige Canadians can find ways to disable their capabilities to a degree. This is where Rusty's suggestion would be useful, ask soldiers with experience in this field what caused them troubles in wartime and what were the effective defenses of the enemy. Of course you may end up on a government watch list for asking these questions, but so be it for art! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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