Guest JT Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 What were some of the earlier (pre Nader ) engineering failures that may or may not have lead to recalls of a car such as the copper cooled 1923 Chevrolet http://www.mindspring.com/~corvair/cococo4.html. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Dwight V. Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 In the same vein as the above, the Crosley CoBra engine comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 The upgrade of replacing the two pedals & two levers to the standard three pedals one lever on early 1909 Model T Fords comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Hollow front spindles on Metropolitans caused some to break off at the inner bearing. I had one break years ago sending the car and my son on it's side. The Met I own now has solid spindles that my father made. This was a very poor design and should have been caught!!! I'm not sure if other early AMC's had this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BruceW Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Though not as big of a problem as an ill cooling engine.. or potentially dangerous as breakable spindles.. but a problem area known to most owners of original 1927-31 Ford is the distributors on the 1927-31 Fords that had bad design in several areas. One.. the condensor, which was partially exposed was positioned directly over the exhaust manifold and tended to frequently die from the heat. Also, the thin wire running under the point plate to the points is known for suddenly breaking..often at inopportune times.However, most owners of these cars today, especially those that tour a lot, have solved the problem by installing the repro "modern" point plate which uses late model small block Ford points and condensor, all contained on the plate within the distributor and also eliminates the troublesome wire. In addition, the points on the new plates can now be adjusted without having to redo the ignition timing each time. I installed these plates in our 31 Ford almost 10 years ago and have had no problems since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles2 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 The steel cylinder sleeves used in the early Mercury (and maybe Ford as well) wore out quickly; almost as fast as the aluminum cylinder walls on the Chevrolet Vega. The Mercury engines were ready for pressing out the sleeves and installing new pistons and rings at fairly low mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Guy Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 I was always of the impression that that air cooled Chev was pulled from the market because of a law suit. Franklin claimed patent infringements, and thay pulled it rather than fight them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 How about Edsel's automatic transmission from 1958? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 If I remember the story correctly (I read this about 25 years ago, so forgive me if there are some inaccuracies )...One of the reasons for the copper fins was to get around Franklin patents (?)...The book I was reading put it this way: " They didn't work. The cars overheated, seized, and came apart. Only 719 were built and they were quickly called-back to the factory."I wish I could remember which book I found this in; it was a hardcover book on the history of the autombile, probably published in the '60s or '70s, and this info came from an extensive chapter on Charles Franklin Kettering.Sadly, the copper-cooled Chevrolet was not one of his triumphs...A few still exist; don't know if they're in running order or not...A "failed "Ford motor from the same period (1920's) was the Ford "X-motor"...an eight-cylinder engine whose block was in an "X" configuration when viewed from the end (I guess it would be a radial-type engine)...there were four pairs of two cylinders. I think they had issues with the lower cylinders burning excessive amounts of oil and fouling plugs.There are pictures of them in Floyd Clymer's (?) book on the Model A from the 1960's.Unlilke the copper-cooled Chevy, the Ford X-motor never saw actual production and distribution. Don't know if Old Henry smashed these or not...If someone out there came refine what I'm trying to remember, I would welcome your input ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Teletouch ! The transmission itself was fine - the regular Ford-O-Matic...it was that Teletouch control system...Oy !While we're talking Ford, how about the retractable hardtops ? (Thinking of their complicated electrics, dead batteries, and potential for leakage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar BUYER Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I have a book a friend gave me that has quite a few cars fitting this bill! The Amphicar was a financial failure. The cover has an incorrect statement (it's common to see pertaining to Amphicars). It points to the trunk (in front, engine in rear) and says the engine was prone to lockup when water entered the engine. I have NEVER heard of a single case of that happening. It would be very difficult to make it happen with the way the air cleaner is setup.Lots of interesting cars from ones that rusted rusted quickly to just plain old poor engineering. That is Hans Trippel, the designer of the Amphicar on the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 My dad and mom had an early Valiant that had what turned out to be a problem. If the distributor cap got the least bit damp the car quit. I will always remember my poor dad standing in a downpour down south somewhere trying to dry that cap out so the car would start. It would run for a little while, get damp and quit again. When the 1965 Dodge Dart GT came out he dumped that Valiant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Green Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Having spent this past weekend running the crap out of an Amphicar on its last run of the season, it gets my vote to be removed from the list. Even in pouring down rain it didn't skip a beat and after 2 days of pure torture only a couple of gallons of water in the bilge. Where did the summer go!!!!I wonder if there were any boat or motorcycle manufactures that were considered failures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 In 1957, Plymonths sub-grille (below the front bumper) had six verticle slots. Early versions had wide slots, but fine upright ribs were added to help screen out kicked up road debris...........I'd assume they had radiator problems with the earlier versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21raceabout Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 That's beautiful; crediting Al Gore for the "It isn't pollution that is harming the environment..." statement that was actually made by that historic failure Dan Quayle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I thought Al Gore invented the internet. Or was it the calculator? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Would not the biggist disaster be "Lucas Electrics"??????Or are we only talking about vehicles made in the center of the universe (North America). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21raceabout Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Right, why bother looking for ourselves to see what the actual quote was, much less what actions were taken in terms of supporting development of the internet, when we can just eat the sound bite that Karl Rove fed us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronbarn Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Am surprised no one has mentioned "free wheeling" transmissions - designed to eliminate motor braking when you let your foot off the gas. (Great fun on down mountain drives.) This subject came up in a meeting I had with a club 90 miles from here this evening. The question was, "Did Marmon ever have free wheeling?' I assured them that Marmon did not make that mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I got a couple. How about the Cadillac Cimmaron? A trimmed up Chevy Cavalier with leather interior & Cadillac name plate. Another one would be the 4-6-8 engine put in some of the Cadillac Sevilles in the early 80's. With today's gas prices, maybe some manufacturer will try something like that again. Or how about the aluminum 4100 engine they put in Cadillac's in the 80's that in many cases wore out at 75000 miles? That 4100 engine ruined Cadillac's reputation, greatly boosted Lincoln Towncar sales, and I think they are still trying to recover from that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right, why bother looking for ourselves to see what the actual quote was, much less what actions were taken in terms of supporting development of the internet, when we can just eat the sound bite that Karl Rove fed us. </div></div>Nah... That's not as funny sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or how about the aluminum 4100 engine they put in Cadillac's in the 80's that in many cases wore out at 75000 miles? That 4100 engine ruined Cadillac's reputation,</div></div> What about the Cadillac 350 Diesel conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar BUYER Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 It was Olds that did the diesel conversion. I did not add this or the 4-6-8 Caddy engine as I thought he was looking for 60s on back, problems.The 4-6-8 was a good idea but w/o the engineering to back it. The solenoids would fail constantly. When I was a wrench at McCaddon caddy in Boulder Co then, we disconnected a lot of them. Same time as the Olds diesel fiasco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Maybe an Olds engine but were they not sold also in Sevilles as sort of an attempt at luring Mercedes 300D buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 John,Am I correct in thinking that the Oldsmobile diesel fiasco originated from the fact that GM merely converted a gas engine into diesel? ... rather than develop a new diesel engine? Or were the problems stemming from something more simple in the execution of the redesign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moskowitz Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 As someone who had to deal with these pretty extensively, let me chime in! Yes, the engine was based off the standard 350 engine but none of the parts were interchangeable. My experience was both good and bad with these engines as some that had the oil changed faithfully seemed to do well but others were failing left and right. As time went by and engineering made modifications to the parts the engines seemed fairly reliable. Some of my customers swore by them and some swore at them. We certainly handled a lot of swaps to gas engines later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Now just wait a minute here - Lucas electrics are one of the "bright" spots in the development of automotive lighting. Susan and I have lots of experience with them on our MGs. We are always amazed at how well they work and how little replacement smoke is actually required when making the necessary daily adjustments. I've even installed a Lucas battery backup system for my home computer system that provides a very reliable uninterruptable po Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 The 1980s Cadillac 252CID engines were pretty weak and short-lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's beautiful; crediting Al Gore for the "It isn't pollution that is harming the environment..." statement that was actually made by that historic failure Dan Quayle. </div></div>Really, was there any difference between the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bollman Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A "failed "Ford motor from the same period (1920's) was the Ford "X-motor"...an eight-cylinder engine whose block was in an "X" configuration when viewed from the end (I guess it would be a radial-type engine)...there were four pairs of two cylinders. I think they had issues with the lower cylinders burning excessive amounts of oil and fouling plugs.There are pictures of them in Floyd Clymer's (?) book on the Model A from the 1960's.Unlilke the copper-cooled Chevy, the Ford X-motor never saw actual production and distribution. Don't know if Old Henry smashed these or not...If someone out there came refine what I'm trying to remember, I would welcome your input ! </div></div>At least one of these X engines survived. I saw it through the windows of one of the closed buildings in Greenfield village many years ago along with several other engines. Thought it was interesting that such a unique engine was just being stored and not displayed. A few years later there was a write up on the engine in a magazine (maybe Special Interest Auto) on the long lost engines that were discovered. Wonder how many other artifacts of our past are lost in plain sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 At least one of these X engines survived. I saw it through the windows of one of the closed buildings in Greenfield village many years ago along with several other engines. Thought it was interesting that such a unique engine was just being stored and not displayed. A few years later there was a write up on the engine in a magazine (maybe Special Interest Auto) on the long lost engines that were discovered. Wonder how many other artifacts of our past are lost in plain sight. I think it was in the late 1970's that one or two of the X engines were sold at a housecleaning action at the Ford collection, along with a lot of neat Ford stuff. I remember seeing a 6 cylinder equiped Model T in the Hershey Swap Meet the next year. The engine looked just like a stock T with an extra two cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyDale Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Dear Skyking,I THINK Al Gore is taller and i DONT THINK Dan ever shared sleeping quarters with that THING called HILLARY.diz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Don't forget the infamous Packard Straight 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 '37...That six-cylinder Model T...was it in a racer bodied chassis with a "vee" racing radiator ?I hope the Henry Ford Museum kept at least one of their X-motors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 When I saw that 6 cylinder experimental T engine it was in a cobbled up T chassis. I'm sure it was something the Museum people did years ago, had parts from at least 12 different years of T production. After all these years i'm sure someone has built a nice speedster out of it. If it shows up at Scottsdale Az. I'm sure history will show that it has won INDY at least 2 times, was a honeymoon car for a few Hollywood types and worth more than the last Hemi Cuda they floggd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAnderson Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I did, too. Spent a lot of time in the mid-80s doing these block replacements. We didn't make squat on them but that was partially offset by stripping the fuel system when these newly-swapped cars came back to us on a tow line, because the owners had gotten used to putting unleaded in their loaners' tanks. Also, I remember that we were having trouble with the replacement long blocks. Two of them self-destructed from the get-go; after the second one blew up we pulled the heads on the third one. Found an upholstery screw in one of the jugs. Guess somebody at the factory was ticked off that GM had reduced potty breaks from one hour down to 59 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Someone over on the P-15 /D-24 website recently posted show/vacation pics that included a white Model T racer with a vee racing radiator, and a "factory"(?) six cylinder T engine...The engine looked legit at first glance, but upon closer inspection looked as though they had siamesed the rear two cylinders of a second T block onto the first, and on the head, the "Ford" script was between cylinders 2 & 3, which puts it towards the front 1/3 of the six-cylinder head. I would have thought a "Factory" job would've had the script centered between #3 & #4...The coil box looked like a "late T" under-hood coil box, except is was longer to accomodate six coils.The intake and exhaust manifolds looked surprisingly stock.I still curious about the origins of this "T-six"...welding-up two blocks and two heads is challenging enough; they'd still have had to make an entirely new crank and cam...not to mention the timer...If I'm clever enough to find the pics, I'll post them here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKFrazee Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 About five years ago, I saw a Ford X-8 on display at henry's home. I assume it's still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Dwight V. Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Got another one...Austin Minis and Americas using the transmission case as the oil sump, and sharing the same oil.Uh, yeah, that'll work for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aanderson44 Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hollow front spindles on Metropolitans caused some to break off at the inner bearing. I had one break years ago sending the car and my son on it's side. The Met I own now has solid spindles that my father made. This was a very poor design and should have been caught!!! I'm not sure if other early AMC's had this problem. </div></div>AMC didn't build the Metropolitan, but rather Austin did, in England, on the chassis of the Austin Princess. AMC's contribution to the car was the styling, and of course marketing and sales.Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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