1938 Buick Special barn find spins but won't start

[VintageIronage]

Hello and thanks for taking time to read this.

 

This is my first 1930's car, first Buick, and first straight 8. I've restored a 1969 Cutlass, 1970 Willys with Buick V6, and put a 5.3L in a 1948 IH panel truck.

 

 

Just received a 1938 Buick Special a barn find purchased from an estate. It had apparently set for a number of years, the sticker in the window shows 2009 as last on the road, the owner had passed, it had the distributor cap off hanging by it's wires, the points in the glovebox. I installed a new coil, point's, condenser, cap and rotor. The motor was not stuck, so, checked the oil level, full to the mark, hooked up a new battery, and tried to start it. It spun with the starter, so with the fuel line disconnected, I checked that it was drawing air through the carburetor while spinning, and gave it a small amount of gas, and some shots of ether. It will not start just spins. 

 

Checked top dead center, have spark on cylinder 1 with cylinder one valves closed.

My compression gage was a little loose on the threads and was getting about 60 pounds of compression with a little leaking by the threads, I know the pressure should be 100-118 pounds.

 

Currently have a small mount of transmission fluid in each cylinder, letting them soak over night.

 

There is an aftermarket voltage regulator attached to the firewall near the voltage regulator, it appears to have been attached for some time, it's adjustable with a high and low setting.

 

Any suggestions on what's stopping it from starting? 60 pounds of compression is low, but shouldn't it still try to start?

Is it possible that while I'm getting spark that it's not getting enough amperage/voltage in the spark to light the ether and gasoline? That the culprit is a bad voltage regulator/that device trying to compensate? 

 

Is there a ballast resistor, or only the voltage regulator?

Should it have a 3 or 4, or 5 terminal voltage regulator?

 

Thank you in advance for any helpful suggestions!

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, VintageIronage said:

Checked top dead center, have spark on cylinder 1 with cylinder one valves closed.

How sure are you? Could it be on overlap instead of compression? It only comes up on compression every other turn.

 

First figure out which way the distributor rotor turns while cranking.

 

Take the plugs out so it cranks easy, crank it by hand with a wrench or something with your thumb over the #1 hole so you KNOW you are on the compression stroke, then, using the timing marks, bring it rest of the way up to top dead center. Don't go past, the next rotation will be the wrong one. There is a trap here. It is possible for a former owner to have mounted the flywheel in one of several wrong ways. If so, you won't have timing marks. Assuming the mark is present and you find it and stop there, what plug wire is the distributor rotor pointing to? Should be #1. You should be able to follow the firing order around the distributor cap from there. Make sure you follow it in the same direction the rotor turns.

 

 

Edited July 5 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Aaron65]

Yep. I had my hubris checked the other day by the deities of internal combustion. I was resealing the intake manifold on my T-Bird's 390, and I mentioned to my dad that I didn't understand how so many of these car guys on TV got the distributor 180 degrees out. Well, for maybe the third time in my life, I installed the distributor 180 degrees out and it wouldn't start the next day.

 

Make sure the intake valve has just closed and THEN check the timing marks for top dead center.

[EmTee]

Also, check compression on all cylinders to verify that the valves are actually closing.  Zero (or thereabouts) compression on one or more cylinder suggests a valve is sticking open.  As a precaution, I'd spray a little WD-40 at the valve stems just to start softening any sludge or other gunk that may be there.  As you roll the engine through the firing order with the plugs out, check the valve lash at compression stroke TDC for each cylinder.  It's possible to find lash too tight and holding a valve open.  Hot lash spec. is 0.015", so I set mine to 0.018" ~ 0.0.19" cold as a starting point.  It should start and run fine (with a 'tic' here or there) at that value.

[Ltc4748]

Check the above reply first, if that checks out then look closer at the spark. Not sure what you are using to verify spark, some inexpensive testers are a light bulb which is ok for checking consistency of the spark. I have found that the spark from the end of the plug wire needs to be able to jump a gap. I like to see at least a 1/4" . Some older cars may be less due to design but if they only jump the distance of the plug gap you will have a no start or intermittent trouble starting the engine. 

[DonMicheletti]

In my opinion, you are luck it didn't start.

When an engine sits that long, it is not unusual for the oil to "gunk" up and plug the oil pump pickup screen.

I feel ti would be wise to drop the pan and be sure all is OK and clean.

 

I have seen more than one engine ruined by a plugged pickup screen after sitting a long time....including my '38 Special that was toasted by the previous owner.

 

Is the distributor 180 degrees out of time?

[VintageIronage]

Hello and thanks to all for your replies, I took the valve cover off and cranked the engine by hand prior to trying to start it, and all valves were operating freely, too the oil pump is apparently functioning because oil is making it's way up to the valvetrain, as is visble since the valve cover is off.  There is no sludge in the exposed valve train it is a clean looking motor. The distributor has not been touched by me, the vacuum advance module is at 9 o'clock, the rotor points at cylinder one when cylinder one has both valves closed.

 

Per my initial post on this subject I am wondering why there is an aftermarket voltage regulator that is adjustable that is spliced into the wiring harness, what is the correct voltage regulator, I would like to rpelace it, should it be 3,4 or 5 terminals? My 1969 Cutlass needed the correct voltage regulator for it to run, so the aftermarket gadget has me wondering about the quality of the spark to the cylinders.

 

Thank you!

 

[M1842]

Check your new coil, a lot of the newly made coils and condensers are bad out of the box.

[MCHinson]

I have tuned up a 1937 Buick which caused it to no longer run. When I removed the new condenser and replaced it with the old one, the car ran again. Lots of new imported coils and condensers are junk. What is the condition of the battery cables? If they are not properly sized cables for 6 volts, or have bad oxidized connections, you likely are not getting enough voltage to get adequate spark to ignite the fuel under compression. 

 

The voltage regulator you need is a 1118213. They come up on Ebay from time to time. I would also suggest you check out the 36-38 Buick Club and consider joining the club. In addition to technical articles, members advertise parts for sale in the newsletter regularly. https://3638buickclub.org/

 

For a discussion of the 1118213 voltage regulator, check out this discussion: 

 

[nsbrassnut]

Another item to consider checking when the car has been sitting for a long time and the condition of the wiring is questionable. Taught to me my an old time mechanic a long time ago.

 

Apologies if you already tried this.

 

Check the voltage at the "hot" connection of the distributor/coil when cranking the engine. For a 6V system, if the voltage at the distributor is less than 4-5V+- cranking, there won't be enough power to get a good spark. When not cranking the engine, the reading at the distributor may is usually fine and the spark looks good when the points are flicked.

 

A second check is to check the voltage at the starter terminal when cranking. It should also be close to 5V+- with a good battery and cables. If its down to 4V or less, it may still turn over, but likely won't start.

 

The condition of the cables, wires and connections is critical for good performance. One everything is in good condition 6V systems work just fine. But it can take a while to get them there.

[VintageIronage]

43 minutes ago, nsbrassnut said:

Another item to consider checking when the car has been sitting for a long time and the condition of the wiring is questionable. Taught to me my an old time mechanic a long time ago.

 

Apologies if you already tried this.

 

Check the voltage at the "hot" connection of the distributor/coil when cranking the engine. For a 6V system, if the voltage at the distributor is less than 4-5V+- cranking, there won't be enough power to get a good spark. When not cranking the engine, the reading at the distributor may is usually fine and the spark looks good when the points are flicked.

 

A second check is to check the voltage at the starter terminal when cranking. It should also be close to 5V+- with a good battery and cables. If its down to 4V or less, it may still turn over, but likely won't start.

 

The condition of the cables, wires and connections is critical for good performance. One everything is in good condition 6V systems work just fine. But it can take a while to get them there.

Thanks nsbrassnut, I just received the car 2 days ago, so still at the "discovery" phase. anxious to make it run, but I need to step back and look at the big picture. Interior was redone with period correct material and style, and carpeting, the headliner is original, and only has a few small stains. The trunk floor is rusted and so is the rear rocker, the engine is period correct, and under the valve cover looks pretty darn clean, it spins, brake pedal goes to the floor, and the wiring harness is a mess, a mix of old broken and jerry rigged new, that seems to be the most logical thing to do, replace the wiring harness next. Which begs the question, replace ity with 6 volt, or 12? Yes, the purist point is to stay 6 volt, I'm not adverse to that, but thinking of both present, and future ( owner ) 12 volts makes more sense. Can you or anyone point me towards a source of someone having converted this car to 12 volts, so I know what all it would need, yes the obvious parts but the bits and pieces too?

 

Thank you all!

[VintageIronage]

The engine pic is before new parts installed, cap, rotor, coil, points, condenser,. wire from distributor to coil, the battery cable is either 6 or 4 gauge, the ground strap is original, I intend to remove it from the block next and clean it, install a new voltage regulator.

[Aaron65]

You should try to use a zero gauge positive cable with a 6-volt system.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

If 6 volt,  does not need a ballast resistor.   That IS a rats nest. 

 As Aaron said, larger battery cable.   00 is better.  A case of bigger is better. 

 If  you do rewire, go ahead with 6V harness, or just do it yourself, one wire at a time.  If you decide to go 12V later , the 6V wire will be fine.  12V uses smaller wire,  so, once again, bigger [ 6V wire ] is better.

 

  I see no reason to NEED a voltage regulator for engine to run.   Make sure the battery is full 6V.    Run a jumper from the positive post on the battery to the + post on the coil.  This will eliminate possible problems from bad wiring to or from the Ign switch.

 

 I changed my 1950 to 12V.  Not a big deal. All bulbs,  a reducer for the gas gauge.  I use a one wire GM alternator.  Internally regulated, so regulator is eliminated. Starter will work for a long time. Mine did , at least.  There are voltage reducers available for radio, heater, etc. Mine are just in op.  I bypassed the  AMP gauge and use a Volt Meter. 

 

  Ben

Edited July 6 by Ben Bruce aka First Born (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

Personally, I would keep it 6 volts. That way everything can be diagnosed by following the original shop manual and you don't have to worry about things that are not going to work correctly. You don't have to worry about changing components that can't deal with the 12 volts. Not that it makes any difference in getting it started, but if you are buying parts, you need to find out what you actually have since the engine is a later engine than 1938, and that is not a 1938 carburetor. The engine number can be used to identify the engine year which will help you make sure you are not buying incorrect parts.

 

As has been previously mentioned... order the correct battery cables for the car before you waste much more time trying to figure out why it won't start. With the wrong battery cables and the overall condition of the wiring harness shown in the photos, it will be a struggle to get it running even with a good strong battery. Once you have the correct battery cables, you will have much better current flow to the starter and the ignition system.

Edited July 6 by MCHinson (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

When you get new battery cables and have them crimped, have the terminals soldered to the cable.  Solder fixes a host of possible bad crimps, and other issues with the mechanical connection.  In fact it is good to solder all crimped terminals especially critical connections going to ignition switches, ignition, etc....

[VintageIronage]

Hello and thanks for all the replies. The battery cable positive is a 2 gauge, I cleaned the ground spot on the block and put a 0 gauge negative cable instead pf the orginal braided strap on it today. I hooked up an inverter today and used it as a power source direct to the new coil, I also ran a jumper direct to the battery so was bypassing the ignition wiring, it still did not attempt to start just spins any way I have tried. I upped the voltage on the inverter to 9 volts and did a spark text, the spark did seem a bit stronger, but still would not start the car, this with a couple shots of gasoline down the carb, and several shots of ether. Is there a higher output coil> like the Pertronix 45011 45,000 volts, .6 ohm unit that is a pulg and play swap for the new standard output coil i've tried? 

[VintageIronage]

4 hours ago, MCHinson said:

Personally, I would keep it 6 volts. That way everything can be diagnosed by following the original shop manual and you don't have to worry about things that are not going to work correctly. You don't have to worry about changing components that can't deal with the 12 volts. Not that it makes any difference in getting it started, but if you are buying parts, you need to find out what you actually have since the engine is a later engine than 1938, and that is not a 1938 carburetor. The engine number can be used to identify the engine year which will help you make sure you are not buying incorrect parts.

 

As has been previously mentioned... order the correct battery cables for the car before you waste much more time trying to figure out why it won't start. With the wrong battery cables and the overall condition of the wiring harness shown in the photos, it will be a struggle to get it running even with a good strong battery. Once you have the correct battery cables, you will have much better current flow to the starter and the ignition system.

MCHinson-

                    Thanks for your reply, I knew the carburetor is not original it's a Carter WCD. Other than color ( someone rattle can painted it in place I can see where they stopped at the back of the engine ) what makes you think the engine is not a 1938? The oil dipstick is the correct place for a pre-1940.

[Bloo]

That voltage regulator mess will have to be cleaned up at some point, but won't cause the engine not to run. It might potentially be the cause of it not cranking on *some* Buicks, but if it cranks the regulator is a red herring.

 

 

 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Battery positive is a 2 gauge or a 2  00   [aught] gauge.?   It needs to be as large as your thumb.  As  Matt said, engine number should tell.  How about a picture of the other side of the engine.

 

  Ben

[EmTee]

Make sure the breaker plate is grounded.  There should be a small braided wire connecting the plate to the distributor body.

 

[Larry Schramm]

IMO, Pertronix will not fix your problem, so............

 

Let's start with the basics.  With the ignition on and points open, check the voltage at the one side of the coil. Is it battery voltage? If it is not you are losing voltage from that point back to the ignition switch and further back to the fuse block, etc..  Just keep tracing back until you find the battery voltage drop.

If you have battery voltage on the ignition feed side of the coil, is there battery voltage at the other side of the coil?  If not, bad/open coil for sure.  If yes then go to the point arm and see if you have battery voltage at the point contact at the point arm.  Battery voltage there, then it would appear that you have a ground problem.  

 

As EmTee states you need a good ground on the breaker plate, the plate that the points are screwed to.

If all of this is good, then you should have spark with everything hooked up.  One thing to check is with the distributor cap off and turning the engine over with the starter do you see any sparking at the point contacts?   

 

Also, don't forget to double check the condenser/capacitor.  If shorted internally you will not have any spark and if open will cause the points to burn.

 

Just some thoughts.

[MCHinson]

2 hours ago, VintageIronage said:

MCHinson-

                    Thanks for your reply, I knew the carburetor is not original it's a Carter WCD. Other than color ( someone rattle can painted it in place I can see where they stopped at the back of the engine ) what makes you think the engine is not a 1938? The oil dipstick is the correct place for a pre-1940.

In 1938 the intake manifold did not have that dip at the back of the engine. The engine angle was changed in 1939 so your manifold is a 1939 or later. The engine number will identify what year engine you have. If the engine has 1938 engine mounts, the carburetor is never going to be sitting at the correct angle with that 1939 or later intake manifold. That will likely cause some drivability issues, although it is not the cause of your no-start condition. 

[1939_Buick]

Looks to have a dip stick to the right of the distributor.  In 1940 dip stick was moved to the rear.  So block is 1939 or older.

Stepped intake manifold 1939 or later. With the position of the vents and bosses may be about 1946.  Will have a casting number which is the part number  (usually not the same)

Not sure about the circular vent to the right of the coil.

Head maybe anything.  Has 3 studs for the valve cover. Some straight 8's have 2

Suspect is a mix and match engine.

 

Should able to get a 1938 intake-exhaust manifold from Dave T.  As above the sloping manifold will not help the carb.

 

Edited July 7 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[VintageIronage]

Hello and again, thanks for all the replies, my previous experience in restoration has been more plug and play, and less solving mysteries.

 

Today I rechecked the compressions with a better gage and adapter, while all held pressure which leads me to believe the valves are seating, I had a couple of low cylinders at 75lbs, the rest were a mix of mid 90's and 80's, while not ideal you'd think it would still try to start.

 

Checked voltage before and at distributor on ignition circuit, less than .4 volts drop from battery voltage, added a ground to the distributor. No change it made no attempt to fire, I even put a small amount of gasoline in each cylinder, and used a significant amount of starting fluid. Observed point with cap off, it seemed that the spark was intermittent, and still have only a small yellow/orange spark at the plug, which also seems intermittent. The coil makes a nice blue spark that will jump .250".

 

Checked the resistance on the old spark plug wires, most were around 3 ohms, one at 5.

 

Looking for a source for spark plug wires.

 

Have the distributor checked?

 

Thanks!

[Bloo]

Three things:

 

1) Weak yellow spark at the plugs wont do. The spark probably blows out under compression. That screams bad condenser.

2) If spark really is that hot and blue at the coil, check the carbon button in the cap that contacts the rotor, and try a new rotor. Three ohm plug wires are better than expected. The wires must have copper cores. Normal modern resistance wires are in the thousands of ohms. It is possible you might need new wires for other reasons, but these are not the reason it won't run.

3) The fact you haven't ever got it to even try suggests there is a timing problem, either valve or ignition timing. Are you really really sure the distributor isn't 180* out?

 

[EmTee]

You might try adjusting the timing a bit.  From your picture, the vacuum advance is a little closer to the block than I would expect (based on my '38).  Mine sits at 9 o'clock (vacuum line parallel to the block).  Try twisting the distributor body CCW to that position and see whether that makes any difference.

 

[roysboystoys]

I'm thinking by now your plugs are fouled from fuel and ether. It's not always visible. 

Yellow spark at the plugs is not good.

If you are getting spark , than the points and ground are probably sufficient to run.

Three inexpensive pieces that will help are cap, rotor and a Delco Remy brand condenser of old stock.

Than replace the plugs, I'm guessing it will fire off unless your cylinders are washed down with gas, than you'll need to oil them.

Good luck

 

[VintageIronage]

4 hours ago, Bloo said:

Three things:

 

1) Weak yellow spark at the plugs wont do. The spark probably blows out under compression. That screams bad condenser.

2) If spark really is that hot and blue at the coil, check the carbon button in the cap that contacts the rotor, and try a new rotor. Three ohm plug wires are better than expected. The wires must have copper cores. Normal modern resistance wires are in the thousands of ohms. It is possible you might need new wires for other reasons, but these are not the reason it won't run.

3) The fact you haven't ever got it to even try suggests there is a timing problem, either valve or ignition timing. Are you really really sure the distributor isn't 180* out?

 

Hello Bloo and thanks for your reply, my own experience with a distributor being out 180 degrees out, and seeing restorations is that the engine will fire but blows back through the carburetor, there is not even a hint of this engine trying to fire, so while I have not taken the distributor out I'm inclined to think while it might need timed, it's not 180 degrees out.

 

I've ordered a set of copper Brillman sparkplug wires for it.

[Bloo]

Re reading that, I think I should clarify what i meant is I think your old wires are copper, not that you necessarily need copper. Resistance wires also work fine, and they could be up at 3000ohm or so. Probably more like 1500 ohm, point being it isn't the wires causing low spark if they are 3 ohms. I like my Brillman copper wires though.

 

I agree a 180 out distributor usually pops back (and also pops in the exhaust). It won't even pretend to try to start though. I cant help but be suspicious of some sort of timing issue when it won't fire at all.

 

If it were me, I'd steal a used condenser for it from a car, any car, that is actually known to run. Then, I would find the timing marks, and with plugs out bring it up to TDC overlap (not firing) on #1 with a wrench. Only rotate clockwise. Watch for intake opening and exhaust closing (overlap) happening on the valves to make sure it is more or less split before/after TDC. This makes sure the cam gear is not a tooth off. Then rotate one turn only, still only closkwise, so you are on #1 firing now, verify that the points have just opened, and the rotor is pointing to #1, and ignition timing should be close enough to run. Leave the pan thing that covers the plug wires off for now. Find the manifold drain, and make sure it is not missing, or if it is missing, that the hole it was in has been plugged. It's under the intake. It has a ball bearing that sucks against a seat and plugs the hole when there is vacuum.

 

Now verify you have gas in the carb (by verifying you can make the accelerator pump squirt). Got gas? Good. Now get a fresh set of spark plugs and gap them to .032 or so. Maybe factory spec instead if you know it. In any event they should be fresh and clean and NOT gapped wide to .050 or so like most new plugs come out of the box. Charge the battery good and clean connections to be sure it won't be struggling to crank. Now put about a teaspoon of ATF (clean oil should also work) in each cylinder. Immediately put the new plugs in and try to start it.

 

 

Edited July 8 by Bloo (see edit history)

[VintageIronage]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

Re reading that, I think I should clarify what i meant is I think your old wires are copper, not that you necessarily need copper. Resistance wires also work fine, and they could be up at 3000ohm or so. Probably more like 1500 ohm, point being it isn't the wires causing low spark if they are 3 ohms. I like my Brillman copper wires though.

 

I agree a 180 out distributor usually pops back (and also pops in the exhaust). It won't even pretend to try to start though. I cant help but be suspicious of some sort of timing issue when it won't fire at all.

 

If it were me, I'd steal a used condenser for it from a car, any car, that is actually known to run. Then, I would find the timing marks, and with plugs out bring it up to TDC overlap (not firing) on #1 with a wrench. Only rotate clockwise. Watch for intake opening and exhaust closing (overlap) happening on the valves to make sure it is more or less split before/after TDC. This makes sure the cam gear is not a tooth off. Then rotate one turn only, still only closkwise, so you are on #1 firing now, verify that the points have just opened, and the rotor is pointing to #1, and ignition timing should be close enough to run. Leave the pan thing that covers the plug wires off for now. Find the manifold drain, and make sure it is not missing, or if it is missing, that the hole it was in has been plugged. It's under the intake. It has a ball bearing that sucks against a seat and plugs the hole when there is vacuum.

 

Now verify you have gas in the carb (by verifying you can make the accelerator pump squirt). Got gas? Good. Now get a fresh set of spark plugs and gap them to .032 or so. Maybe factory spec instead if you know it. In any event they should be fresh and clean and NOT gapped wide to .050 or so like most new plugs come out of the box. Charge the battery good and clean connections to be sure it won't be struggling to crank. Now put about a teaspoon of ATF (clean oil should also work) in each cylinder. Immediately put the new plugs in and try to start it.

 

 

Hello Bloo, I did not know about the manifold drain, thanks. I have confirmed TDC, rotor pointing at cylinder 1, cylinder one both valves closed.

I have also put new plugs in it, and gapped them to the book, and have had them out while doing the compression test yesterday, they are not fouled, and had squirted a small amount of transmission fluid in each cylinder, a new battery with a full charge, the positive and negative battery cables have been cleaned, the positive cable has no lettering on it, but is larger diameter than a 4 gauge, the negative is a 0, too there is a powerfull spark from the coil.

 

Have reached out to the local carb shop that also rebuilds distributors, but the distributor tech is not at work today, and owner not sure they can do a 1938.

[Bloo]

I can't say whether the distributor needs a rebuild or not, but it shouldn't need one just to fire and try to run. It does need a new rotor, because it might be burned through the middle to ground. Your description of a hot enough spark at the coil but not the plugs suggests this might be the case. It needs a cap too only if there is carbon tracking, or if there is some problem with the carbon button. Look at it under a bright light. Every time in my life I have had what looked like enough spark, but the engine wouldn't try at all, it was the condenser. Brand new condensers are of poor quality and a super common cause of "car wont start" threads around this forum. Whenever there's doubt, and there is doubt because you have the exact symptoms, temporarily steal a condenser from a car that is known to run. It might not be the right value, but it will run! There are 2 wires inside the distributor that are special because they move all the time. They can break inside the insulation. One runs from the post to the points/condenser, the other (that @EmTee mentioned) is a ground from the breaker plate to the distributor housing. @Larry Schramm's post covers how to check all this, and since the car still doesn't run I suggest you do it again.

 

I don't know that "both valves closed" proves much. It would indeed prove you are on the correct rotation and therefore the distributor is not 180 degrees out.... *IF* you knew for sure the cam is timed correctly, but do you know that? That is the reason for the check at overlap. On almost all engines the overlap (distance between intake opening and exhaust closing) is more or less centered around TDC. it wont be exact but pretty close. The shop manual will tell you for sure when the valve events happen, either in a table or an illustration of valve events. With an engine all together so you can't see inside, what you do is look in the shop manual and find how many teeth are on the crank sprocket. Divide 360 degrees by the number of crank teeth and you know how many crank degrees a tooth is worth. Most engines have chain and gear slop, that is why you turn the crank only clockwise. The valve events at overlap may be a little late, and that's fine, but it had better be less than a tooth worth of degrees late! Otherwise the chain has jumped or someone installed it wrong.

 

Speaking of installing it wrong, If I remember correctly this timing chain is the sort of thing where you count the links between marks to time it. If someone changed the timing chain not knowing that and just lined up the dots, it won't run. I'm thinking this is a very good possibility, and maybe the best possibility if it isn't the condenser.

 

At some point you will need to verify (if you haven't already) that when you are at TDC by the timing marks, and your #1 valves are both closed, or on overlap, etc. that the #1 piston *really is* at TDC. A long ziptie or a soft wire can be useful for this. The reason is that there are six bolts holding the flywheel on a Buick Eight, and there is no offset bolt and no pin or key. The flywheel fits 6 ways, but only one of those 6 ways results in the timing mark for TDC being actually at TDC. If someone puts in a clutch and doesn't know that, there is only a one in six chance that they get it right.

 

Carburetor is full of gas, and the accelerator pump squirts when you move the throttle, right?

 

Edited July 8 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Gary W]

I recently posted a full, step-by-step guide to rebuilding the Delco-Remy distributors.  Maybe it will help, even just as a guide to where all the wires and parts go:

 

 

[EmTee]

The compression readings suggest that cam timing is probably OK (or at least not more than 1 tooth off).  Ignition timing is a different story.  As I said earlier, it is probably worth twisting the distributor a few degrees in each direction to see whether that makes any difference.

 

I second the warning about crappy condensers; I got burned by that on my '38 last year.  How are you setting the breaker point gap?  I suggest starting with a feeler gauge (0.015").  I discovered that my dwell meter has a bias error when used on a 6V car, even though it is a 2-wire one and doesn't say it's 12V only.  So, don't rely on your dwell meter until you have had the chance to verify (or calibrate) it for 6V use.

[MCHinson]

To try to summarize the high points again, I would do the following:

 

1. Make sure your battery cables are good cables of the proper size with clean tight connections.

2. Replace the condenser with a known good one... preferably not an imported one.

3. Install new properly gapped spark plugs.

 

Make sure all of the ignition wiring is correct by following the shop manual instructions.

 

Try starting the car. It is likely to start.

 

If it does not start, then you need to try retiming and/or rebuilding the distributor. 

 

[VintageIronage]

2 hours ago, EmTee said:

The compression readings suggest that cam timing is probably OK (or at least not more than 1 tooth off).  Ignition timing is a different story.  As I said earlier, it is probably worth twisting the distributor a few degrees in each direction to see whether that makes any difference.

 

I second the warning about crappy condensers; I got burned by that on my '38 last year.  How are you setting the breaker point gap?  I suggest starting with a feeler gauge (0.015").  I discovered that my dwell meter has a bias error when used on a 6V car, even though it is a 2-wire one and doesn't say it's 12V only.  So, don't rely on your dwell meter until you have had the chance to verify (or calibrate) it for 6V use.

EmTee- I set the points gap at .015" with a feeler gage, the battery cables are around .500" thick and are cleaned at the connections, too, per my previous post, I'm getting a blue strong spark from the coil, but a weak yellow/orange spark at the plugs. Am going to try playing with the distributor, thanks too for the tip on the dwell meter bias, I was going to try that next.

[VintageIronage]

2 hours ago, MCHinson said:

To try to summarize the high points again, I would do the following:

 

1. Make sure your battery cables are good cables of the proper size with clean tight connections.

2. Replace the condenser with a known good one... preferably not an imported one.

3. Install new properly gapped spark plugs.

 

Make sure all of the ignition wiring is correct by following the shop manual instructions.

 

Try starting the car. It is likely to start.

 

If it does not start, then you need to try retiming and/or rebuilding the distributor. 

 

MCHinson, thanks for your replies, battery cables, and new gapped sparkplugs, have tried 3 different condensers all have been done, I'm getting a strong blue spark from the coil, and the voltage drop from the battery at the distributor, ( through the ignition system ) is less than .4 volts.

[MCHinson]

How does the spark look at the plugs? If you have a good spark at the plugs, you probably have a timing problem. If the condensers were all new ones there is no telling if they are good or not. You really need to have one that has been confirmed to be good by removing it from a running car. If you can't do that, pulling one plug and seeing that it has good strong spark is a good indication that the condenser is probably not the problem and you need to check the timing.

[TerryB]

He says the spark at the coil is good and strong but the spark at the plugs is weak.  Sound like the distributor cap and/or rotor might have problems.

[roysboystoys]

When all else fails, jump it with a 12 volt battery. Use a 12 volt lead to the coil after you disconnect the 6 volt power lead. As soon as it starts, disconnect the 12 battery .

I'm betting it starts , and continues to start on 6 volt ever after.

Done it many times when all else fails.

I'm assuming you installed the new wires you ordered? and you checked the cap and rotor as stated.

If so , it should run. Won't hurt to advance the distributer a little first.