New air shocks and bushings

[arnulfo de l.a.]

Greetings men. A write up on installing new air shocks and all rear end bushings,i.e. trailing arms, panhard bar, rear axel link. Started with trailing arms. I have a beast of a press ( 50 ton DAKE) that was indispensable for removing and installing the bushings. Made some supports out of sections of 2” pipe so as not to distort arms during removal and installation of bushings. White stuff is manteca ( lard ) to help with the process.I use it for cutting, drilling and machining . Its cheap and effective.Next was the panhard bar. That was a bit more difficult because of the stubborn metal sleeve that refused to come out. Nothing a dremel couldn’t handle.Lastly the axel link. That went relatively easy.These are the air shocks i will be installing.Bushings and shocks were in pretty bad shape. Hoping for a noticeable improvement in handling .The job on a 1- 10 difficulty scale 10 being worst was about an eight. I would not suggest tackling this job without a press , a floor jack, a bottle jack, and a couple of jack stands. At the moment still in the final stages of installing the air shocks. Will report back after test drive. Sorry about the upside down picture. Didn’t know how to fix it. Anyone that knows how please do so.

[EmTee]

Why did you go with air shocks?  Is that what was in the car already?  Just curious.  My '67 has what appear to be original Delco air shocks that still work.  I don't believe they were a factory option; they were most likely dealer-installed.

[arnulfo de l.a.]

Tired of scraping bottom when entering and exiting driveway

[NTX5467]

Seems like the '67 El Camino was the first GM vehicle to have factory-equipment air shocks?  With Cadillac having "automatic level control" a year or so earlier?  Air shocks are an easy way to compensate for sagged rear springs, from my experience.  ALL of them are also "HD" in nature, having a larger than 1" piston, usually.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[arnulfo de l.a.]

9 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

Seems like the '67 El Camino was the first GM vehicle to have factory-equipment air shocks?  With Cadillac having "automatic level control" a year or so earlier?  Air shocks are an easy way to compensate for sagged rear springs, from my experience.  ALL of them are also "HD" in nature, having a larger than 1" piston, usually.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

True words. Had an 87 el camino conquista with factory air shocks. Loved that car. Psycho ex girlfriend tore it up in a rage of anger. Currently have a 06  cadillac escalade with auto level control. Using same model compressor for air shocks on Rivi. Its small and compact, perfect for my application.

[XframeFX]

On 4/7/2023 at 6:27 PM, arnulfo de l.a. said:

Next was the panhard bar. That was a bit more difficult because of the stubborn metal sleeve that refused to come out. Nothing a dremel couldn’t handle.

Those are polyurethane bushings for the panhard rod are they not? If so, need a press to install? Can't recall having to use a press when I did mine. A big improvement for that alone.

The 6 bushings for the other links are those repro items from our Australian members?

A rear anti-sway bar in your plan?

Yes, let us know the improvement.

Looking good!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[arnulfo de l.a.]

Yes poly on the bushings for panhard and yes did require press. Yes on source for all bushing , no on sway bar. 

[arnulfo de l.a.]

[arnulfo de l.a.]

Received the compressor I bought through ebay. Went with it because it was less than half the price of a name brand like ARNOTT. Bench tested it right out the box. Glad i did. It leaked air out the exhaust valve. Sent it back for a refund. Going with the $400 ARNOTT compressor. Another testament to the ol saying “you get what you pay for.” Should receive the ARNOTT tomorrow.

[1965rivgs]

5 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said:

Received the compressor I bought through ebay. Went with it because it was less than half the price of a name brand like ARNOTT. Bench tested it right out the box. Glad i did. It leaked air out the exhaust valve. Sent it back for a refund. Going with the $400 ARNOTT compressor. Another testament to the ol saying “you get what you pay for.” Should receive the ARNOTT tomorrow.

  I have an '03 Escalade with 350 K which I bought new. I still tow my largish boat and the occasional 6K lb Buick-trailer combo with it. I've been through 3 Arnott compressor units since new and one pair of rear air shocks and am happy with their products. I'm much less happy with the location of the compressor unit which is behind the left rear tire. Corrosion from road splash/road salt has been the cause of compressor failure in all 3 instances.

Tom Mooney

[arnulfo de l.a.]

3 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

  I have an '03 Escalade with 350 K which I bought new. I still tow my largish boat and the occasional 6K lb Buick-trailer combo with it. I've been through 3 Arnott compressor units since new and one pair of rear air shocks and am happy with their products. I'm much less happy with the location of the compressor unit which is behind the left rear tire. Corrosion from road splash/road salt has been the cause of compressor failure in all 3 instances.

Tom Mooney

Escalades of that generation are TANKS! I have an 06 with 190 k . Still purrs. I agree about the location of the compressor. Fortunately we dont have to deal with salt on the roads here in So Cal. 

[dr914]

waste of time and money, just install Bilstein Gas and have the best ride and handling for any first gen

[telriv]

AND EVEN BETTER add my sway bars front & rear.

NOW you won't believe the sure footedness with NO advise effects on ride.

Then to improve upon that one of my fast ratio steering boxes.

 

Tom T.

[arnulfo de l.a.]

1 hour ago, dr914 said:

waste of time and money, just install Bilstein Gas and have the best ride and handling for any first gen

My time, my money , your opinion

 

1 hour ago, telriv said:

AND EVEN BETTER add my sway bars front & rear.

NOW you won't believe the sure footedness with NO advise effects on ride.

Then to improve upon that one of my fast ratio steering boxes.

 

Tom T.

If I were to install a sway bar ,it would be the one made  by the Aussie .

Edited April 13, 2023 by arnulfo de l.a. (see edit history)

[gungeey]

Gee, if it's just a matter of simply adding bilsteins to get "the best ride and handling for ANY 1st Gen"  why would someone go to the extra significant expense and effort of front and rear sway bars plus a new steering box. The dots just don't connect.

 

Lots of opinions represented as facts.

 

I hope Arnulfo has success and ease with his project and it brings about better than anticipated results.

 

I think the best ride is the one when the 1st owner drove off the Buick lot and strive to replicate it.

 

 

 

 

[60FlatTop]

26 minutes ago, gungeey said:

think the best ride is the one when the 1st owner drove off the Buick lot and strive to replicate it.

My sentiments exactly.  And that is on modifications in general. I usually get the image of a cowboy hat waving out the window and a hearty "Yahoo" when I read about the mods.

(That just happens. I can't control it.)

 

End of the Boulevard Ride

Letter From Detroit

 

I just bought a ~20 year old Cadillac with coil spring unequal length A-arm front suspension. Just that warmed my little boulevard ride heart.

[telriv]

No one, including the nay Sayers, has any idea of the benefits WITHOUT the harshness of ride.

The ONLY way anyone will know is to go for a ride in a 1st. Gen so equipped.

 

Tom T.

[XframeFX]

17 minutes ago, telriv said:

The ONLY way anyone will know is to go for a ride in a 1st. Gen so equipped.

I know, I know! Frustrating my project won't allow me to advance. I'd love to purchase Georges Bilsteins for BOLT-ON-RESULTS. But those SEARS shock absorbers from the '70s still dampen the ride while I'm forever chasing other issues!

The price has gone up for those Bilsteins I see.

[gungeey]

1 hour ago, telriv said:

No one, including the nay Sayers, has any idea of the benefits WITHOUT the harshness of ride.

The ONLY way anyone will know is to go for a ride in a 1st. Gen so equipped.

 

Tom T.

One would have to ride in every car with every configuration to make such a statement.

[RivNut]

AND, not everyone is going to agree on what the ride should feel like.  I know for a fact that I do not want my Riviera to ride like my BMW.  Around town, while just cruising, the BMW will rock your socks at every expansion join but at speed around a corner, it cannot be beat.  But the BMW seats hold you in, not like the mini-benches in the 1st generation cars.  As long as the road is flat and smooth, the BMW is great, but not around town.  The comfort of the “luxury ride” in the Riviera is much nicer around town.  That’s why we have multiple cars.

[BulldogDriver]

6 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said:

My time, my money , your opinion

 

If I were to install a sway bar ,it would be the one made  by the Aussie .

Done.

Ray

[telriv]

MY rear bars have no bushings or links to wear out.

Been in my Riv. for 50+ years with NO problems whatsoever.

No Squeaks, rattles, loose bolts or otherwise.

I sure wish some would chime in with their experiences with my rear bar.

 

Tom T.

[Riviera63]

11 minutes ago, telriv said:

MY rear bars have no bushings or links to wear out.

Been in my Riv. for 50+ years with NO problems whatsoever.

No Squeaks, rattles, loose bolts or otherwise.

I sure wish some would chime in with their experiences with my rear bar.

 

Tom T.

Ask and ye shall receive. Before I go any further I just want to say that I am not claiming the things I have done to my car and the items installed are the best things you can do or the best items you can buy, they are not the only things you can do or that everyone should do them to their car. I am simply reporting what I have done and my impressions. No more, no less.

 

I have one of Tom's rear sway bars on my car. I like it. It tucks up nicely between the rear axle and the muffler where it is not noticeable. With that and a host of other things that I have done have improved a car which was a pretty nice handling and driving car into a really great handling and driving car. Along with Tom's rear sway bar I have replaced the track bar bushings (this probably made the most noticeable improvement of any of them), brake reaction rod bushings, Bilstein shocks (which stiffened the ride somewhat and I like that), beefier front sway bar and one of Tom T's quick ratio steering boxes. I also found an old school alignment shop and had them realign with as much positive caster as they could get.

 

Was all of this necessary? No. Was all of this overkill? Probably but, I do not regret doing any of it. I did not aspire to turn my car into a sports car but, merely to make it as pleasurable a driving car as I could make it for me. One thing I have noticed is that I use my brakes a lot less than I used to. A very noticeable difference in handling on corners and curves. I enjoyed driving my car before. I love driving my car now.

 

Bill

[arnulfo de l.a.]

2 hours ago, telriv said:

MY rear bars have no bushings or links to wear out.

Been in my Riv. for 50+ years with NO problems whatsoever.

No Squeaks, rattles, loose bolts or otherwise.

I sure wish some would chime in with their experiences with my rear bar.

 

Tom T.

Fool me once shame on you ,fool me twice the laugh is on me. The distributor i sent you for rebuild and conversion to 12v volt electronic ignition was junk right out the box. I paid you top dollar for the work and got a used vacum advance a hacked timiing stop,and a rotor that was installed incorrectly. Worst of all is the fact that the electronic ignition module you put in,according to you , still required the use of an inline resistor to bring the voltage down to 9v. I was not made aware of this prior to agreeing to have you do the work. I assumed it would be set up for 12 v like all modern day electronic ignitions.Had you tried to make it right by offering to install a module that worked with 12 volts  all would be good. Instead you ask me “ what do you want me to do? “ . My response was “ you dont have to do nothing”. I was angry and did not want to go back and forth with you on what should be done. A good man to do business with would have known what to do. I am by no means a financially rich man but i am not hurting for money either. My view on life is that it is too short to spend any time being angry over the loss of a few hundred dollars so I let it go.  I would have much rather had this conversation with you face to face but again, a few hundred dollars is not enough for me to travel half way across the country to do so. I would not have put this on here had you not tried to sell me any more of your products/ sevices. I take that as an insult. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by arnulfo de l.a. (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

14 hours ago, BulldogDriver said:

Done.

So, which Anti-Sway Bar is pictured by Ray? Tom T's?

2 hours ago, telriv said:

MY rear bars have no bushings or links to wear out.

Which "Bar" has no bushings? Anti-Sway or Panhard Rod?

[Riviera63]

46 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

So, which Anti-Sway Bar is pictured by Ray? Tom T's?

Which "Bar" has no bushings? Anti-Sway or Panhard Rod?

Ray's is Tony's from Australia I believe. Tom's anti-sway has no bushings.

 

Bill

 

 

[arnulfo de l.a.]

In my opinion , the sway bar made by the aussie ( sorry i dont know the mans name) is a MUCH more effective design. The pivot/ attachment points on the axel of the aussies sway bar is the reasoning for my opinion. The torsion action of the aussies sway bar is greater because of those attachment points . Toms design allows the sway bar more movement with the rear axel because the attachment points of his are only at the ends of the sway bar therefor, the sway bar moves more freely with the axel. That is not to say that there is no torsion action going on with Toms design. There is but it is confined to the shorter section of the sway bar that runs parallel to the cars body whereas the aussies torsion action is the part of the sway bar that runs parallel to the rear axel which is a longer dimension.

[RivNut]

Tony Gentilcore. 

[BulldogDriver]

Yes Tony from Down Under was who I got both front and rear sway bars from. I also used his conversion kit for front disc brakes. I had considered Tom T’s sway bar but Tony’s mount points are either directly to the frame or the differential which is what I wanted. I personally don’t think that Tom T’s is better or worse just a different approach to the task. Either one should get you down the road without an unpleasant experience.

 

 I’m not sure if Tony is still doing either one of these upgrades now. An email should resolve that question. Shipping is probably quite a bit more today, I got these from him over 3 years ago and even than the lead time was around 4-6 months if I remember correctly.

 

One thing I will say about the Aussie’s, they have to be quite resourceful in coming up with parts to keep these old cars moving. They have a lot more restrictions on what they are allowed to use. Thank them for what I think was a great resolution to the rear bushing mounts issue. My car has decent original bushings still on it but a set of the Aussie bushings are sitting on the shelf for a time I’m bored and looking for something to do…… Yeah right!

 

tonyg@mako.com.au

 

Ray

 

 

[NTX5467]

We HAVE to remember that there are many ways to do the same things.  Which is what made the cars of the 1960s so neat . . . EACH brand had their own brand character, which related to ride/handling and other feels and sounds.  Now, much of that has been dumbed-down or greatly diminished, all in the name of "sameness" for those who do not understand those things, by observation.  In the world of replacment parts, "customers had choices" between "very good" and "mediocre", yet some did not know the difference or why there was a difference.  Everybody has their own sense of what they want in a car or parts for the car.  There might be common ground on some things, but NOT always "how to get there".

 

Personally, I'll "pass" on Bilsteins and head toward KONIs, IF KONI has something for the vehicle I'm looking to put them on, otherwise, I'll make another decision.  I like sway bars with rubber o r polyurethane bushings (as I KNOW there has to be a sacrificial wear point in those mounting points).  The OEM rear sway bar bushings on my '77 Camaro have been there since the earlier 1980s, with no deterioration.  But the link bolts on the front bar have broken a few times, for some reason.  Plus, I'll take the rubber/polyurethane bushings over an alternative to not add any extra "noise" into the chassis (although it has rubber isolation from the body).  To mme, this makes good sense . . . although others might feel differently.

 

Having a better or more-modern feel is probably what these suspension modifications are about, which is fine. but unless one is going to go road racing or canyon carving in their vehicles, as in instrumented testing, there can be different orientations on "what is best".  Which can also relate to one's driving style and expectations.

 

Not unlike the factory "handling packages" in the 1998 GM W-cars.  Monte Carlo, Regal, Grand Prix, and Intrigue.  As it turned out, the only common item was the Eagle GT radials in P225/60R-16 size.  Sway bar sizes, spring rates, etc. were ALL different.  BUT not by much.  Yet each car had a different feel on the track and in normal driving.  BUT in instrumented testing, the differences in actual performance and skidpad grip was miniscule.  While competitive, the Regal GS had a chassis calibration which would surprise a LOT of Buick owners, by observation.  As the GP was more gutsy-feeling against the Intrigue's refinement.

 

We might all end up at the same destination, but how we get there is the fun part.

 

Y'all ENJOY!

NTX5467

[arnulfo de l.a.]

8 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

We HAVE to remember that there are many ways to do the same things.  Which is what made the cars of the 1960s so neat . . . EACH brand had their own brand character, which related to ride/handling and other feels and sounds.  Now, much of that has been dumbed-down or greatly diminished, all in the name of "sameness" for those who do not understand those things, by observation.  In the world of replacment parts, "customers had choices" between "very good" and "mediocre", yet some did not know the difference or why there was a difference.  Everybody has their own sense of what they want in a car or parts for the car.  There might be common ground on some things, but NOT always "how to get there".

 

Personally, I'll "pass" on Bilsteins and head toward KONIs, IF KONI has something for the vehicle I'm looking to put them on, otherwise, I'll make another decision.  I like sway bars with rubber o r polyurethane bushings (as I KNOW there has to be a sacrificial wear point in those mounting points).  The OEM rear sway bar bushings on my '77 Camaro have been there since the earlier 1980s, with no deterioration.  But the link bolts on the front bar have broken a few times, for some reason.  Plus, I'll take the rubber/polyurethane bushings over an alternative to not add any extra "noise" into the chassis (although it has rubber isolation from the body).  To mme, this makes good sense . . . although others might feel differently.

 

Having a better or more-modern feel is probably what these suspension modifications are about, which is fine. but unless one is going to go road racing or canyon carving in their vehicles, as in instrumented testing, there can be different orientations on "what is best".  Which can also relate to one's driving style and expectations.

 

Not unlike the factory "handling packages" in the 1998 GM W-cars.  Monte Carlo, Regal, Grand Prix, and Intrigue.  As it turned out, the only common item was the Eagle GT radials in P225/60R-16 size.  Sway bar sizes, spring rates, etc. were ALL different.  BUT not by much.  Yet each car had a different feel on the track and in normal driving.  BUT in instrumented testing, the differences in actual performance and skidpad grip was miniscule.  While competitive, the Regal GS had a chassis calibration which would surprise a LOT of Buick owners, by observation.  As the GP was more gutsy-feeling against the Intrigue's refinement.

 

We might all end up at the same destination, but how we get there is the fun part.

 

Y'all ENJOY!

NTX5467

What you state makes sense. Curious as to why the KONI’s over BILSTEIN’s ?

[60FlatTop]

I find that a good quality shock that is less than 40 years old works fine on my older cars.

 

There are so many times that an over aged consumable is replaced by something of assumed performance enhancing value gives dramatic results that could have been the same with an OEM item. Shocks, tires, anything rubber, all that stuff ages.

 

When was the last time a first or second generation owner looked closely at those rear body mounts above the axle? It could be half and inch thick and the bolt still thinks there is cushion. The body could be dragging across the frame on every curve. Delco Pleasurizers would, do, suit me just fine. And that knit pickin stuff I do when poking around in dark places that can be easy to overlook in the goal of the performance minded.

[telriv]

ANY Swaybar has NO action other than in the center.

Makes NO diff. how long the side bars are which has NOTHING to do with the center twist.

Do a search to find out HOW a Swaybar works.

Go to Addco's site.

 

Tom T.

[arnulfo de l.a.]

Test drove this morning and happy to report 100% improvement on the REAR END. I drove over a few speed bumps on residential streets and highway dips on the freeway. The back end reacted perfectly not too stiff not too soft.My drive train sounds quieter also which i attribute to the fact that I no longer have the rear end sag anymore. I previously had a 1 “ sag relative to the front end height . The rear end improvements highlighted the fact that the front end needs attention. While the car does not pull and tracks  perfectly straight, driving over the freeway dips revealed a need for new front shocks. I am of the opinion that the bushings and other related under carriage parts are still in good shape. Front tires wear evenly which is what leads me to that conclusion. I am going to research front shocks now. I will be looking for something along the line of OEM type. I want something that will get me as close to the factory ride as possible. Not too stiff not too soft. Im thinking  Gabriel or Monroes. When I get done with that I will let you all know how it turns out. Stay well everyone!

[drhach]

Any squeaking from the Poly track bar bushings? 

[arnulfo de l.a.]

1 hour ago, drhach said:

Any squeaking from the Poly track bar bushings? 

Yes ! Hoping that will go away as they wear in . You have a similar experience?

[drhach]

17 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said:

Yes ! Hoping that will go away as they wear in . You have a similar experience?

Not yet, I have a set that I'm getting ready to install. I've heard that if you wrap them in teflon pipe tape, they won't squeak. Not sure about that though. I debated abotu a full set of Poly bushings, but I figured that would be triple the squeaking. 

[60FlatTop]

I have never used dry Molly powder on poly bushings but remember hearing it was recommended. It does a good job for industrial application.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Molybdenum-Disulfide-Micron-Powder-Ounces/dp/B00ICXS2OS/ref=pd_lpo_1?pd_rd_w=FoFx2&content-id=amzn1.sym.116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_p=116f529c-aa4d-4763-b2b6-4d614ec7dc00&pf_rd_r=E1CD3WFT39EAH2VCFZTT&pd_rd_wg=nTPdv&pd_rd_r=e442b0af-bbf9-4960-bd8a-99c205bb3c79&pd_rd_i=B00ICXS2OS&th=1

 

[arnulfo de l.a.]

Right now the squeaking is not that bad. Dont know if it will get as they wear. 

[telriv]

The press had to be used because it appears you did NOT remove the steel sleeves. 

Steel sleeves are NOT required or suggested to be used with the "Poly" bushings.

Could be why they are now squeaking because they are too tight.

Just my observation.

 

Tom T.