Old car for a permanent daily driver

[John348]

14 minutes ago, Littlestown Mike said:

I wouldn't be the first to have done that.  I know a guy who probably has close to $100K--parts and his labor-- into a '67 Galaxie LTD, knowing that he will never recoup that $$.  That identifies him, to me, as a true hobbyist--the very best kind.  His workmanship is beyond outstanding, but it is his passion.

So now it is a loosing proposition at a $100K so to save time and money one would be better off buying a new or newer "pre-owned" under a factory warranty for every day transportation.  

[pkhammer]

   First thing that comes to my mind is a mid-to-late 70s Ford F150 with a 302 V8 or 300 six. Rust can be an issue with these trucks but I've had several and with proper care never had a problem. Rock-solid dependability, easy to work on and available with A/C. That's what I'd be looking at.

 

   On the other hand it could pretty easily be argued that a vehicle that is already 40-50 years old will nickel and dime you to death as a daily driver and that newer vehicles in the long run are more dependable, efficient, safe and comfortable. For most of my adult life I'd tried to purchase new or low mileage vehicles that I felt I could keep for many years and be relatively trouble free.

   My Wife and I purchased a 1993 Honda Civic Del Sol in 1996 as a second, fun vehicle. We still own it and it has been nearly trouble free for the 26 years we've had it. It has nearly 200k on the clock, blows cold A/C, gets 35 mpg, has good power and is a lot of fun. Also still rust-free. We couldn't ask for more.

   We purchased a new 2500 Dodge Ram pickup in 2004 with the Cummins diesel. We still own that one too after 18 years and it has 255k nearly trouble free miles on it. It gets 20 mpg, can tow 10,000 lbs with ease, has cold A/C and still rust-free. Everything still works including the power windows, cruise, etc. Not so much as a rip in the upholstery yet. Like I said, who could possibly ask for more?

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by pkhammer
mispelling (see edit history)

[StanleyRegister]

Hmm...  A potential other path is slowly sinking in after all these great positive analyses.  Identify newer cars that do not break and have better steel.  As long as consumable parts remain available, things are good.  And a bulletproof car might not need as many of those.

 

It's a little less obvious to me to ask for help considering '90s Toyotas from the Antique car club.  But hey, it's happening right here, and that '93 Del Sol has probably already shown up on the Hershey show field.

 

I continue to appreciate your input on how to think about making this project work.

 

If it doesn't break or age out, it doesn't matter how complex it is.  My dark view of things is that most engineering teams that add complexity end up reducing reliability.

[pkhammer]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:30 AM, John_S_in_Penna said:

You might get a 1980's or 1990's Honda, Toyota, or Nissan

(before Nissan was bought out by Renault, it was 

as reliable as the others) and get 200,000 miles.

They make some interesting cars.  But you should have

a winter "beater" to avoid winter driving in your old car.

  This probably won't be the most popular opinion on here but I agree with it 100%! The company I work for has been buying Honda CRVs as company vehicles for the project managers for about 20 years now. The older ones are still rust free and have between 200-300k miles. Very little in the way of issues except for persistent "check engine" light that usually has something to do with the gas cap! Our company mechanic, a died in the wool Chevy man and "buy American" veteran finally bought himself one after seeing for himself how dependable they are. Many of my co-workers daily drive 80's-90's Honda, Toyota or Subaru's with 200k+ on them and they just seem to keep on ticking. Those would be my top picks for high dependability, low cost ownership. Toyotas and Subarus do seem to have issues with rust however.

[Skvitt]

I was thinking along the same lines as OP. And keep my eyes open for something old, but what can be used as a daily deriver in the summer. And this popped up for sale locally. if only the price was more reasonable.

[Frank DuVal]

They all were stainless steel body panels AFAIK, maybe you mean not painted?

 

The rest makes no sense, even with Flux Capacitors left out.😁

 

DeLorean Industries will put in a Ford Coyote 5 liter.....

[Pilgrim65]

On 10/12/2022 at 2:59 PM, EmTee said:

1983 Mercedes 300D

Having read all the suggestions , admittngly some good cars ,I think  these era mercs fit the criteria better , here in Cyprus ,my friend runs a holiday business providing touring in a classic car , the entourage consists of 12 similar model and age mercs , some British and European 70s sports cars  about 20 total, I often join in as guide with my 72 stag v8 

The trips include motorway and mountain roads , the cars are accompanied by minibus carrying refreshments and mechanic , however I have never been on a tour where the mercs needed attention , always the small British or European sports cars 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Pilgrim65 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

On the 1991 F 150 I inherited from my father I am already running into parts availability problems.  Most things are still reasonably easy to find , But something as simple as an engine oil dipstick seems to be pure unobtainium. Fits about 1988 - 1994 302's and NLA everywhere. None of the wreckers around here have anything that old. Had to be millions of them made. Even on ebay used ones are few and far between and priced very high when one does eventually show up.

[StanleyRegister]

That's what was making me look toward cars with reproduction part availability.

[1912Staver]

On 10/16/2022 at 5:30 PM, pkhammer said:

   First thing that comes to my mind is a mid-to-late 70s Ford F150 with a 302 V8 or 300 six. Rust can be an issue with these trucks but I've had several and with proper care never had a problem. Rock-solid dependability, easy to work on and available with A/C. That's what I'd be looking at.

 

   On the other hand it could pretty easily be argued that a vehicle that is already 40-50 years old will nickel and dime you to death as a daily driver and that newer vehicles in the long run are more dependable, efficient, safe and comfortable. For most of my adult life I'd tried to purchase new or low mileage vehicles that I felt I could keep for many years and be relatively trouble free.

   My Wife and I purchased a 1993 Honda Civic Del Sol in 1996 as a second, fun vehicle. We still own it and it has been nearly trouble free for the 26 years we've had it. It has nearly 200k on the clock, blows cold A/C, gets 35 mpg, has good power and is a lot of fun. Also still rust-free. We couldn't ask for more.

   We purchased a new 2500 Dodge Ram pickup in 2004 with the Cummins diesel. We still own that one too after 18 years and it has 255k nearly trouble free miles on it. It gets 20 mpg, can tow 10,000 lbs with ease, has cold A/C and still rust-free. Everything still works including the power windows, cruise, etc. Not so much as a rip in the upholstery yet. Like I said, who could possibly ask for more?

 

 

I often think it would be nice to have a new or almost new truck. But then I look at the price. Base price for the most basic model is $60,000 . Truly knock your socks off these days. 

All my life I have used old beater trucks. But that is getting harder with each passing year due to the same factors StanleyRegister mentions in his original post.

 I really only use my trucks for trailer towing and the odd large item pick up. Most years perhaps 8 or 10 trips , some years as little as 2 or 3. Gas around here is almost always the highest or nearly the highest priced in North America so I can't even think of using a truck for daily transport.

 I may just start using rentals.

 

 

 

A reliable unit woud be nice, but for my needs I can't even remotely justify the cost.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

On 10/16/2022 at 6:51 PM, pkhammer said:

  This probably won't be the most popular opinion on here but I agree with it 100%! The company I work for has been buying Honda CRVs as company vehicles for the project managers for about 20 years now. The older ones are still rust free and have between 200-300k miles. Very little in the way of issues except for persistent "check engine" light that usually has something to do with the gas cap! Our company mechanic, a died in the wool Chevy man and "buy American" veteran finally bought himself one after seeing for himself how dependable they are. Many of my co-workers daily drive 80's-90's Honda, Toyota or Subaru's with 200k+ on them and they just seem to keep on ticking. Those would be my top picks for high dependability, low cost ownership. Toyotas and Subarus do seem to have issues with rust however.

Your selection does not meet the criteria!

 

 

1.  Enough acceleration to be sufficiently agile in town.

2.  80 mph on the highway without strain.

3.  Not too big - the lamented PT Cruiser is a good size for my garage, though I don't expect to find something quite that small.

4.  Weather-tight.

5.  Fairly quiet inside.

6.  Air conditioned.

7.  Cruise control.

8.  Reasonably tight handling in curves, doesn't need to be a sports car.  Maybe radials would be enough.

9.  Rust resistant.  I don't want to be struggling with rotting panels, and unfortunately it seems like a lot of steel was pretty poor in that era.  And I'm in the northeast in the winter time.

10.  Most service can be accomplished with a set of sockets, a set of combination wrenches, some screwdrivers, and a couple of pullers, brake, and suspension tools.

11.  No electronic fuel or ignition management systems.  (Might grudgingly accept a Pertronix or the like.)

12.  A shape that will be pleasant to look at for a long time.  Highly subjective of course.  (The PT Cruiser was suppposed to be that.)

13.  Some carrying capacity - wouldn't have to be more than a trunk & a back seat.

14.  Good availability of parts.  I know that can change, but broad part availability now would be good, and I can stock up on consumables.

 

It definitely needs to have hydraulic brakes, and electric wipers, and a good defroster.  ☺️

 

SEE # 10, 11 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

55 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

Your selection does not meet the criteria!

I think nothing meets all the criteria.

We've given him options that meet many of

the criteria, such as vehicles that can be driven regularly

for part of those 30 years if he doesn't drive in snow!

 

In my humble opinion, he needs to make a selection now

or revise the criteria.

[StanleyRegister]

I can see now how hard it might be for any single vehicle to meet all those needs.  I appreciate this great input and it's making me think about the question in a much more well-rounded way.  A Toyota anvil or a Volvo 240 may be in the cards...

 

Returning to that '65 Mustang - If I had gotten one in 1965, or maybe 1974 when I could drive, I could still have one of the thousands of '65 Mustangs that remain on the road.  The AC and OD could have been added along the way.  Anything that broke or wore out could have been replaced - because anything broken or worn out on a barn find today can be replaced right now.  If I had driven it through 48 PA winters, there would likely be rust issues, unless I had been meticulous about the underside.  Although nowadays it seems like I could also buy just about any body panel that was lost that way.

 

Of course, in that scenario, I'd be starting the next 30 years with a half-million miles on the car.  Buying one of today's restored or super-solid cars would put me 400,000 miles ahead of the game.

 

Granted, the next 30 years will likely see some kind of shift in parts availability, not to mention gasoline availability.  But it still seems like the next 30 would be mostly like the past 48 would have been.

[1912Staver]

Volvo 240's are great cars. I have owned a few of them. Rust kills them , but not as fast as many other cars. Most body parts and much trim is now NLA. Some repro parts are available, but very little sheetmetal. Using one as a daily driver gets harder with each passing year.

[StanleyRegister]

Hagerty Driver's Club, Nov-Dec 2022

 

"The Trade-Up Triumph"

... the TR6 is an E-Type for the masses

...

And thanks to good aftermarket support today, there's no reason a solid example can't last a lifetime.

John L. Stein

editor@Hagerty.com

 

[Terry Harper]

I drove a 1968 MGB for over 10 years as a daily driver/commuter with the exception of the winter months. Other than a wire coming off the fuel pump one day it never let me down. With careful preventive maintenance it ran fantastic and other than a bit of added patina looked as good if not better than when I bought it.

 

A friend who ran an MG restoration business use to tell his customers how my MG was on the road everyday and because of that it wasn't sitting in his shop waiting to be fixed. I really regret selling that car but family came first. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

1 hour ago, StanleyRegister said:

Hagerty Driver's Club, Nov-Dec 2022

 

"The Trade-Up Triumph"

... the TR6 is an E-Type for the masses

...

And thanks to good aftermarket support today, there's no reason a solid example can't last a lifetime.

John L. Stein

editor@Hagerty.com

 

Tr 6's have several problem points. I have owned a number of them starting with a TR 250 in 1975, same car as a TR 6 except some of the sheetmetal.

 The frames frequently fail where the lower control arm attaches { front } and where the rear trailing arm attaches. The mounts for the rear diff. assy tear out of the frame.  Brand new , thicker material and re - inforced frames are available.  Ratco, great product , BUT ! $6,500.00 plus $350 for the pallet plus shipping .

 Rear diffs break , fix is a Nissan R 200 rear diff and preferably the CV joint axle upgrade. Goodparts, axles are around $1,200 / pair. Much improved stub axles and axle bearings are part of the package. Diff kit is around $650. 

 Engines spin their thrust bearings, Gearboxes break and O.E.M. parts are getting rare. 5 speed conversions cost a bomb.

 Decent cars, but a good one is getting very pricy.

Edited November 1, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Bloo]

50 minutes ago, Terry Harper said:

A friend who ran an MG restoration business use tell his customers how my MG was on the road everyday and because of that it wasn't sitting in his shop waiting to be fixed.

This bit of wisdom is not nearly as widely known as it should be.

[vermontboy]

On 10/22/2022 at 8:08 PM, StanleyRegister said:

If I had driven it through 48 PA winters, there would likely be rust issues, unless I had been meticulous about the underside.  Although nowadays it seems like I could also buy just about any body panel that was lost that way.

If you had driven it through 48 Central New York winters you would have replaced the structure a couple of times, not just the outer body panels. - no matter how careful you were. Whenever i see "restored? early Mustangs around here I am amazed at those where nothing is square. The rear quarters droop or or are in or out along the length of the body. Rockers are patched. Panel gaps you could dirve a truck through. 

 

And I sympathize - I bought a new Plymouth Valiant in 1970 and in less than two years the tops of the front fenders rusted through. But 48 winters around here is almost a fantasy. I do know of a friend of the family who literally brushed and sprayed the underside of his 62 Chrysler with oil every fall - it looked awful and made repairs messy but that did seem to work for over 10 years until mechanical repairs became a bit much (he "drove it like he stole it" - former P38 pilot).. 

 

No car is indestructible in the Northeast - the tinworm wins....

[StanleyRegister]

57 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Tr 6's ...

 Decent cars, but a good one is getting very pricy.

I just looked at sales on BaT - ouch.

[1912Staver]

Did you see what the 5000 orig mile one sold for ? " Just " $75,000.00,  and two other sold at the 60 K mark. Cheap wheels indeed.

Edited November 1, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)