For Sale: 1940 Lincoln Continental Zephyr Convertible - "Good driver, shows well" - "Former museum car" - Glastonbury, CT - Not Mine - 3/1/23 Flipping in New York - 3/15 Reduced

[6T-FinSeeker]

For Sale on Facebook: 1940 Lincoln Continental Zephyr Cabriolet Convertible in Glastonbury, CT  -  $24,000  -  Must be a member of Facebook to access Seller's contact information.

 

Link: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/622134765609119/1940-Lincoln-Continental-Zepher-Cabriolet-Convertible

 

Seller's Description:

1940 Lincoln Continental Zephyr Cabriolet Convertible

• Driven 1,500 miles
• Manual transmission
• Exterior color: Black · Interior color: Red

1940 Lincoln Zephyr cabriolet - Very rare car - All hand built - All of the cars were given to celebrities by Edsel Ford - Only 37 documented cars are left - V-12 engine - I had to list it as a sedan, but it’s not and it never was - Former museum car - Needs restoration - If you want a perfect car, go buy a perfect one. You’d spend less in the long run. This car is a good driver, a great parade car, a car that shows well. But it isn’t mint. Better condition cars have recently sold for $110k to $225k Car is located in Connecticut.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by 6T-FinSeeker
update status (see edit history)

[6T-FinSeeker]

 

 

[auburnseeker]

Not sure where that museum was located but must have been a rough section of town.  Alot of little parts seemed to have disappeared. 

[alsancle]

OK, somebody help me out. Isn’t this supposed to be the most desirable of the entire run?

 

I have always liked the styling, but my dad‘s words ringing in my ears from decades ago about how these would screw up car caravans it’s hard for me to forget.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Car has been for sale for a while, maybe a year now.  Guy has advertised a couple other Lincolns, local but I don't know him.  

 

AJ I think John Pascucci may have owned this car some time ago, 90s to early 2,000s.

 

You and a couple others have put enough fear in my mind to take these off the list, but why this hasn't sold at this price or a tad less seems odd to me.  The first of this series are really good looking cars.

[edinmass]

Museum car…….add 30k to the price if you want to drive it around the block. 50 to go ten miles.

[wayne sheldon]

IF (big IF) I  -EVER-  put the words "museum car" in an advertisement for a car I am selling? It WILL be a matter of "full disclosure"! I would only say such a thing as a warning to potential buyers!

[alsancle]

19 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Car has been for sale for a while, maybe a year now.  Guy has advertised a couple other Lincolns, local but I don't know him.  

 

AJ I think John Pascucci may have owned this car some time ago, 90s to early 2,000s.

 

You and a couple others have put enough fear in my mind to take these off the list, but why this hasn't sold at this price or a tad less seems odd to me.  The first of this series are really good looking cars.

Steve, not fair to just use my opinion. Would like to hear from experts on the car. My experiences are completely colored  by my dad‘s tour experiences.  Maybe he was just unlucky to experience some poorly sorted cars?

Edited September 2, 2022 by alsancle (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

4 hours ago, alsancle said:

Steve, not fair to just use my opinion. Would like to hear from experts on the car. My experiences are completely colored  by my dad‘s tour experiences.  Maybe he was just unlucky to experience some poorly sorted cars?

AJ:

This '40 Continental looks the way they did when they showed up at early LCOC meets in the 1950's-early 1960's.  Check The Lincoln Continental by OCee Ritch, Copyright 1963 and vintage photos in the club publication "Continental Comments".    Chromed spare tire covers, rear wheelhouses modified to a full-open or partially open configuration as this car, 'nosed' removal of prow trim.  Most typically they had the smoky, under-powered, disappointing H-Series V-12 replaced by an OHV Olds or Cadillac V8 or hopped-up Mercury flathead V8.  Interiors were reupholstered in shiny vinyl when the original leather and whipcord went bad.  The tops replaced with poor-fitting pinpoint vinyl with wide plastic rear windows.

 

The bodies for the 350 cabriolets and 54 coupes for 1940 were hand-built by long-time Lincoln body craftsmen from modified Zephyr stamping plus panel-beating forms in the old Lincoln K body shops as no volume dies were yet available.  Low volume dies were built before the 1941 models enter production but still required a good deal of handwork to build, still a labor-intensive operation when that was still possible.  

 

Your dad's distaste for the H-Series V-12 Continentals ruining Caravans with far more capable, roadable Classics is well founded.  Be thankful your Great Race experience wasn't in one!

Steve

PS: But yes, it is a lovely design!

Edited September 2, 2022 by 58L-Y8 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Steve, what you’re saying to me is what I have always thought. I just don’t feel right disparaging something I’ve never driven.

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Steve, what you’re saying to me is what I have always thought. I just don’t feel right disparaging something I’ve never driven.

AJ:

Disparage away!  While the H-Series V-12 Lincolns have their defenders, their defense generally sounds like damning with faint praise. Next time you visit Tom's collection, if he has a Continental in inventory, take it for a test drive.

Steve

[Steve_Mack_CT]

6 hours ago, alsancle said:

Steve, not fair to just use my opinion. Would like to hear from experts on the car. My experiences are completely colored  by my dad‘s tour experiences.  Maybe he was just unlucky to experience some poorly sorted cars?

Maybe but I have heard it from others as well, anyway no buyers remorse but I did see this car and kicked around checking it out.

 

I think it may need work as Ed points out to enjoy regularly.  It is together on the other hand, for same money a forum member is asking for same car apart in NY

[Steve_Mack_CT]

To Steve's point, Tom sold that maroon 47 or 48 a few months back, I know that car had issues as disclosed in his ad.  Pretty but a big enough car where you want some grunt I would think, I wonder how much heavier than the early cars?

[58L-Y8]

17 hours ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

To Steve's point, Tom sold that maroon 47 or 48 a few months back, I know that car had issues as disclosed in his ad.  Pretty but a big enough car where you want some grunt I would think, I wonder how much heavier than the early cars?

The '40 Continental cabriolet is listed as 3615 lbs; 1941: 3860; 1942: 4020; 1946: 4090; 1947-'48: 4135.  The 292 ci V-12 rated at 120 hp @ 3600, 214 ft/lbs @ 1600 rpm.  The bore was increased .062 for 1942, 1946-part of 1947 model year to 305 ci, 235 ft/lbs @ 1800 rpm.  The 305 V-12 was even more problematic, reverted to 292 ci for the late years production.

 

For comparison in the Continental's pre-war $2,800-$3,200 price segment:

1940-'42 Packard 160 & 180 356 ci straight eight: 160 hp @ 3500, 292 ft/lbs @1800 rpm.

1940-'42 Cadillac: 60 Special, Series 72 & 75, 346 ci V8: 135-150 hp @ 3400 rpm, 283 ft/lbs @ 1700 rpm  

1940-'42 Chrysler New Yorker & Crown Imperial: 323 ci straight eight, 140 hp @ 3600 hp, 260 ft/lbs @ 1600 rpm

 

Continentals look sleek and elegant, but their V-12 was woefully underpowered for the weight it had to move.

 

Steve

Edited September 3, 2022 by 58L-Y8
syntax corrected (see edit history)

[Pilgrim65]

Seems reasonable price , but perhaps I’m the exception don’t like shape , ugly big trunk , apologies to owner and devotees 

[TAKerry]

33 minutes ago, Pilgrim65 said:

Seems reasonable price , but perhaps I’m the exception don’t like shape , ugly big trunk , apologies to owner and devotees 

Im with you on this one. The top brings new meaning to 'land yacht'. Looks like its the size of a large sail!  Way too much canvas (or whatever the material is).

[58L-Y8]

Here is another1940 Lincoln Continental cabriolet in much better condition and for much more money:

1940 Lincoln Zephyr - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle automotive... (craigslist.org)
Copy and paste in your email: 1122bdd141063e03a598963fd5a23d9a@sale.craigslist.org

[alsancle]

Sandusky Ohio. Home of the greatest amusement park in the country. Cedar point. I’ve been there many times.

[Hans1965]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:15 AM, wayne sheldon said:

IF (big IF) I  -EVER-  put the words "museum car" in an advertisement for a car I am selling? It WILL be a matter of "full disclosure"! I would only say such a thing as a warning to potential buyers!

I bought my best condition car from a museum in Texas for little money. There are museums and there are museums. "Mine" maintained my 52 Pontiac Catalina very well. No technical issues, super smooth engine, brakes worked well, electrics, gauges all worked fine. It did not even leak. Driver quality from the outside. I was and I am very happy with it. 

[wayne sheldon]

Guten tag Hans,

 

5 hours ago, Hans1965 said:

I bought my best condition car from a museum in Texas for little money. There are museums and there are museums. "Mine" maintained my 52 Pontiac Catalina very well. No technical issues, super smooth engine, brakes worked well, electrics, gauges all worked fine. It did not even leak. Driver quality from the outside. I was and I am very happy with it. 

 

As with almost everything to do with people? There are almost always exceptions. I know several private collections that maintain nearly all their cars to very high level. Several of those collectors usually drive a half dozen or more different cars every year! However, most of those are private collections, and not generally considered to be museums. 

The 1925 Studebaker coach I had many years ago had been in a museum for many years. The good friend of mine that had bought it from the museum wasn't very happy with it, said it wasn't nearly as good as the curator had claimed it to be. My friend also said it was far and away the best car in the museum!

My friend did a lot of work on the car, fixed a lot of things that were wrong with it, got it to run, then found a car he liked better. He made me an offer to sell it to me unfinished, which I took. I then fixed numerous other things that he hadn't gotten to. The work my friend had done was all top notch! (The main reason I bought it was I knew him to do very good restoration work!) I managed to repair the original upholstery enough to look nice and it served very well, had the car professionally painted, rebuilt a bad wheel, the clutch and the transmission (along with the many things my friend had fixed!). It was a fine car that I enjoyed and drove for several years.

 

Many good friends over the years have bought cars from various museums. A few of those cars were very nice and good running cars needing very little before driving and enjoying them. Most other former museum cars I have known, if anything, were worse than my Studebaker was! Would I consider buying another car from a museum? Certainly I would consider it. But whether I would buy it would depend upon the car and its apparent condition!

 

The subject car in this thread? Frankly, I see quite a bit wrong with it. However, the price is not crazy high. I would expect to need to do quite an amount of sorting and correcting the mechanical aspects of the car. Knowing what I know about these particular Lincolns? It wouldn't surprise me if the engine needed to be completely rebuilt! 

If a person wants a really proper and nice one of these? This car would require a full restoration at very high cost! On the other hand, If someone would love to have such a car to drive and enjoy, while fixing the little stuff a bit at a time? This car doesn't look that bad. The seller says it runs well? Maybe it could be driven and enjoyed for years while fixing it up a little at a time?

A car like this? At this price these days? One could do a lot worse! Museum or not!

[Hans1965]

On 9/3/2022 at 11:53 PM, wayne sheldon said:

Guten tag Hans,

 

Guten Tag Wayne!

I think the really bad part of a normal museum is that the cars simply do not get driven and people visiting a car museum might like to get a souvenir or two, so that might result in missing parts here and there. But as we all know, if we don't walk we get rusty and so do cars. That's no news!

 

In this case the owner makes pretty clear that he is selling a driver, at least a good running driver. Price seems to me very reasonable and the interior looks gorgeous to me. Difficult to judge on the exterior. I am not a big fan of the styling though, I am too much of a GM guy. 

 

Your Studebaker story might be typical. Why should anybody give a drivable and enjoyable car to a museum where it is no real car anymore. Probably the best place to drop of cars that do not behave well anymore. Sometimes I even feel sorry for all these nice cars that do not have their own care taker anymore.

 

In my case I bought from a museum that was indeed more a private collection of a rich chemist than a normal museum. I guess the museum has been established for tax reasons or so. Important for me was that the cars were maintained and driven from time to time. 

 

By the way, six months after my purchase the chemist past away and the family auctioned off all the cars, sold the property and fired the employees....

[B Jake Moran]

Original seller knows he has a dog requiring $100,000 + to restore so his comments get a little chippy.  Not a fan of that.  
 

It looks horrible with that top. The 2nd car for $70,000 looks quite nice but like some others I say why bother?  Give me a well sorted Cadillac series 62 convertible any day. Or even a Buick for that matter.  
 

Just reinforces what I have read about the dismal morale at Ford in those days.  

[m-mman]

On 9/3/2022 at 5:50 AM, TAKerry said:

The top brings new meaning to 'land yacht'. Looks like its the size of a large sail

To understand the styling cues and design intent Continentals could correctly be referred to as a “Zephyr convertible Victoria”. 
 

Look at custom bodied Lincolns, Packards, Cadillacs, Duesenburgs of the early to mid 30s and compare the differences between a convertible coupe and a convertible Victoria.  Especially those times when the convertible coupe had a back seat not a rumble seat.  

there were a few late 30s early 40s Packards that were built (custom?) as both a convertible Victoria and a convertible coupe that can help you see the difference. (I think that there’s even a 120 convertible Victoria) 

notice the differences in the rear quarter and trunk area. 

A convertible Victoria is a gorgeous car! Yeah the top is huge, yeah you have no rear vision, but they are stylish. 
 

You can find Duesenburg convertible Victorias that were delivered in 29-30 with a fully closed top and by 35-38 had been modified with a small quarter window. 
 

Compare a 40-1 Continental convertible to a 40-1 Zephyr convertible coupe and you will see the adaptation of the full custom era applied to a production car (the Zephyr). 
 

Yes production costs and considerations meant that the Continentals were not and could never be what the big full customs of the 30s were but that era was gone forever. 
That Edsel was able to capture the flavor of that time and actually produce it is a credit to his genius. 

[58L-Y8]

It'a baaaacck, now $32,000, Lagrangeville, NY

1940 Lincoln Convertible continental zephyr cabriolet - cars &... (craigslist.org)

Seller's Description:
Car is in NEW YORK……  A very rare car, only 350 made, all were factory hand built because dies were not developed till 1941. Only 300 exist today. This is car #63, body # 06H56-63.
In the past these cars have sold for more than six figures and up. 1940 is the 1st year for the Continental. This car is a 1940 Lincoln continental, zephyr cabriolet convertible. Henry Ford’s son Edsel had the first one built for his personal car. People were so impressed with the car that Edsel put 350 into production. This particular car has previously been in the Horseless carriage museum in Murdo SD when it existed.
Many of these cars were given as gifts to actors, politicians and other important people. The car was previously titled in Nebraska and the last owner told me a rumor that at one time the 40’s actor Burt Lancaster owned it. It is just a rumor and I have no documentation. This particular car has its original good running V-12 engine which was professionally rebuilt some time ago, coupled to a 3-speed standard transmission. The drivetrain is solid. It starts right up, drives and brakes well. It is an older restoration that needs paint. The radio that is in it is from a 1941 and is missing the faceplate. There are several other small items missing as well and some easy to fix electrical items that need attention to make it fully functional. The wide white wall 8.20-15 tires are newer and in good condition. There is a recently replaced battery. The car and exterior body are very solid, with no major dents and no rust. The original undercoating was very thick and did a good job of preventing rust all these years. There is one small area on the lower front body pan that someone did a repair that can be easily repaired. (pictured). The interior is mostly complete, needing carpet and a few other items. The convertible top is fully intact but has shrunken in some places. It will need wiper arms. The trunk interior is not rusted, it just has the glue residue from the trunk carpet making it look brown. I have located some parts that are needed and will pass the information on to the buyer. Hagerty valuation tool lists a number 3 condition value for this model of car @ $47,000 and a number 4 @ $21,500. I feel this car is somewhere in between and priced accordingly. I have the clean Nebraska title ready to pass onto the new owner. Buyer pays shipping and I can give you some recommendations for shippers and assist where I can. Can ship anywhere worldwide. Deposits are non-refundable, not interested in trades, NO SCAMMERS

Contact:  For more info call (518) 7-five-8-9-one-6-3 no texts, landline phone.

Copy and paste in your email: 97474b1b3ffa3a748181348546145702@sale.craigslist.org

[TAKerry]

Ha, another it doesnt sell so lets raise the price!

[West Peterson]

On 9/2/2022 at 6:57 AM, alsancle said:

Steve, not fair to just use my opinion. Would like to hear from experts on the car. My experiences are completely colored  by my dad‘s tour experiences.  Maybe he was just unlucky to experience some poorly sorted cars?

 

And THAT is more than likely the case for most bad opinions of cars these days. I have a 1940 Lincoln that runs like a scalded cat with all of its original components in tact. 

[Gearheadengineer]

6 hours ago, TAKerry said:

Ha, another it doesnt sell so lets raise the price!

Judging by the change of location, I speculate that it did sell and new owner is trying to flip it for a profit. 

[West Peterson]

8 hours ago, TAKerry said:

Ha, another it doesnt sell so lets raise the price!

 

It's also a marketing mechanism that's been used for decades. And it works. So I wouldn't knock it too much.

[6T-FinSeeker]

On 3/15, Seller reduced price to $28,000.