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The Best Titanic Exhibit Opens Next Spring In Illinois - The Only Other Renault Is The Centerpiece

Trulyvintage

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Trulyvintage

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Next Spring you can lay your eyes on the only other Renault

known to exist like the one that sank with The Titanic ....

 

Jim

 

My Exclusive Interview Here @ 

 

\

 

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Trulyvintage

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Here is a link to William Carter ( who owned the Renault that sank with the Titanic ) 

 

@ https://titanic.fandom.com/wiki/William_Ernest_Carter?so=search

 

From that link:

 

" The sinking of the Titanic

 

On the night of April 14th, the Carters joined an exclusive dinner party held in honour of Captain Smith 

in the À la Carte Restaurant.

The host was George Widener and the party was attended by many notable first class passengers.

 

Later, after the ladies had retired and Captain Smith had departed for the bridge,

the men chatted and played cards in the smoking room.

 

After the collision the Carters joined some of the other prominent first class passengers

as they waited for the boats to be prepared for the lowering.

 

When William Carter had seen his family safely into Lifeboat 4 

he joined Harry Widener and advised him to try for a boat before they were all gone.

 

But Harry replied that he would rather take a chance and stick with the ship.

 

At around 2 AM, he was standing near the officer's quarters. 

Collapsibles A and B remained lashed to the roof but boats C and D had been freed and were being loaded.

At one point a group of men desperately tried to rush boat C. 

Purser Herbert McElroy fired his pistol and the culprits were removed.

Loading with women and children progressed but eventually no more could be found

and as the boat was released for lowering, Carter and Joseph Bruce Ismay stepped into the boat. "

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Trulyvintage

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Transporting To Travel

Traveling To Tell

Stories From The Road

 

I just dropped off a 1933 Plymouth to Peter outside Of Boston.

 

As explained in the YouTube video link above - Peter has a Steiff Cocker Spaniel Hand Puppet 

that has been in his family since being purchased by his Great Great Aunt aboard the Titanic

before it sank.

 

Jim

 

Here is the Steiff Story:

 

@ 

 

 

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Walt G 25,000+ Points

Walt G

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Renault built some fantastic cars and many were imported into the USA early on as wealthy American's would go to Europe, buy a car to tour and then have it shipped back via ocean liner ( like the Titantic) Renault had a very active dealership in NY City and many of the American customers would place an order there months in advance and buy the car to take delivery when in Europe.

By 1930 there were at least four Renault series, two smaller and two larger( ie 45hp) and the larger Renault's were outstanding in size!

I have collected sales material on the larger 1918-35 Renaults for decades, had a book dealer in England be my scout and act on my behalf to seek and purchase anything for me , I have an instruction book that is like a dictionary in size for the largest Reinastella series . It was almost impossible to find the Renault sales literature 50 years ago as not much was produced on the larger cars due to cost to buy even a chassis. Another run on post . You see photos of the "classic" Renaults in French publications like La Carrossiere, L'Illustration, and Omnia among others  - yes I have all of those too. No I don't read French but can know what is being said about the cars in the publications. I had some wonderful conversations with Maurice Dreyfus ( of the Dreyfus brothers racing team, his brother was Rene) .Maurice was amazed I even knew that a large Renault was even designed and built - he saw them when new pre WWII era.

Yes, I like a lot of obscure motor cars. Have spent most of my life collecting period material on them. Try to share that when possible.

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Terry Bond 25,000+ Points

Terry Bond

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I saw the original exhibit while it was traveling around a few years ago. The display of actual recovered artifacts was awesome. There was also a museum in Fla near Disney too. Both were great.

 

Not sure how to determine which is really best though. Will this one exhibit any of the items recovered from the wreck? 

 

Probably not widely known but the late Charles Schalebaum was a Titantic enthusiast and had a personal collection of items from the ship.  He once showed me pieces of carpeting from a 1st class dining room, plates and a teapot, a smokers set, and other items. 

Terry 

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prewarnut 5,000+ Points

prewarnut

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"When William Carter had seen his family safely into Lifeboat 4 

he joined Harry Widener and advised him to try for a boat before they were all gone.

 

But Harry replied that he would rather take a chance and stick with the ship."

 

   As FYI Harry and his father George and their valet all went down with the ship. Harry was an avid reader and book collector and already wanted to eventually bequeath his collection to his alma mater, Harvard. His mother donated the collection along with building contruction fees and an endowment to construct and keep running a library which became the campus Widener library - in his memory.

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Paul Dobbin 25,000+ Points

Paul Dobbin

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    My Great Ameircan Race driver, Ted Holden took the submersible down to the wreck of the Titanic in about 2006, when he was close to 80.    He

    said at the time he was the oldest man to take the dive.   However the next day a older woman went down and his record was lost.    He was awe

    struck by how much he could see of the Titanic on the ocean floor.

    Ted was an adventure lover who did the Great Race 13 times with his 1935 Chrysler Airflow and once with his 37 Hudson (The first race)    A world        traveler, he would go ride the Orient Express just for the fun of it.   He owned a Monster Truck and a special hauler for it.  He would buy and enjoy     

    oddities like an Isetta, a Covair Ultra Van a Brewster, a 1915 Packard, a 1917 Milburn Electric, plus man others.   I remember him bidding via phone in      auctions around the country when we would get a break while doing the Great Races.   Once on a day off on a Great Race he and I and two 

    newspaper photographers took a 4 hour white water raft trip on the Colorado River, when he was close to 70.   The Titanic adventure was a suprise 

    that I didn't see coming, even for Ted.

    

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prewarnut 5,000+ Points

prewarnut

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Was it someone important who once said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? Other than the purported CB in this exhibit and the one at the bottom of the Atlantic, there's this (chassis 34673). I'd say the exhibit may need to modify their claims....

 

cb.jpg

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Pilgrim65 5,000+ Points

Pilgrim65

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Hi

i live in Southampton Uk. Home port for Titanic , we have a marvellous museum dedicated to the Titanic 

actual rooms recreations , actual recording of court case inquiry , well worth a visit 

if any of you members ever get chance to visit contact me be pleased to accompany you and buy you a drink in the Titanics crews favourite pub 

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TAKerry 25,000+ Points

TAKerry

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On 8/27/2022 at 7:29 PM, prewarnut said:

"When William Carter had seen his family safely into Lifeboat 4 

he joined Harry Widener and advised him to try for a boat before they were all gone.

 

But Harry replied that he would rather take a chance and stick with the ship."

 

   As FYI Harry and his father George and their valet all went down with the ship. Harry was an avid reader and book collector and already wanted to eventually bequeath his collection to his alma mater, Harvard. His mother donated the collection along with building contruction fees and an endowment to construct and keep running a library which became the campus Widener library - in his memory.

Any relation to the Widener law school in Delaware?

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Trulyvintage 10,000+ Points

Trulyvintage

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On 8/28/2022 at 8:22 PM, prewarnut said:

Was it someone important who once said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? Other than the purported CB in this exhibit and the one at the bottom of the Atlantic, there's this (chassis 34673). I'd say the exhibit may need to modify their claims....

 

cb.jpg

 

Scroll up to see an image of the " six fender " 1912 Renault that Matt posted.

Then look at what you posted.

 

The 1912 Renault acquired by Volo Museum earlier this year last sold in 2008 by Sotheby's in Scottsdale, Arizona.

The history of the car is well documented and not " purported ".

It is the only other six fender 1912 Renault known to exist.

 

William E. Carter's complete insurance claim showing all losses can be found here:

 

@ https://www.titanicinquiry.org/lol/claims/carter.b14.php

 

 

Jim

 

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Fred Murphy

Fred Murphy

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I am friends with the members of the band Gaelic Storm (the party band in the steerage section). That 1912 Renaut was a thing of beauty! Rose and Jack got frisky in the Back. I saw the prop Renaut when the Titanic Exhibit was in Raleigh NC. If I remember right, it was a beautiful maroon, like our (my Dad and I)1919 America LaFrance type 75, registry 2772. Sadly, we sold the truck before the speedster craze hit.

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prewarnut 5,000+ Points

prewarnut

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1 hour ago, Trulyvintage said:

 

Scroll up to see an image of the " six fender " 1912 Renault that Matt posted.

Then look at what you posted.

 

The 1912 Renault acquired by Volo Museum earlier this year last sold in 2008 by Sotheby's in Scottsdale, Arizona.

The history of the car is well documented and not " purported ".

It is the only other six fender 1912 Renault known to exist.

 

William E. Carter's complete insurance claim showing all losses can be found here:

 

@ https://www.titanicinquiry.org/lol/claims/carter.b14.php

 

 

Jim

   I get that the bodies are slightly different - just like the headlights. Perhaps the spark plugs are a different brand....If we're going to be that technical can you or anyone explain to me how James Cameron or anyone can figure out the fender configuration of the rusting car in the box since the ship's manifest isn't going to go into that kind of detail? As far as I understand it the manifest is the only document that shows it was there - it has never been seen in the cargo hold. Are you intimating that this was cross referenced with Renault's build records? I'm happy to be less sarcastic if there is something to learn here. 

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Trulyvintage

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On 8/29/2022 at 7:53 PM, prewarnut said:

   I get that the bodies are slightly different - just like the headlights. Perhaps the spark plugs are a different brand....If we're going to be that technical can you or anyone explain to me how James Cameron or anyone can figure out the fender configuration of the rusting car in the box since the ship's manifest isn't going to go into that kind of detail? As far as I understand it the manifest is the only document that shows it was there - it has never been seen in the cargo hold. Are you intimating that this was cross referenced with Renault's build records? I'm happy to be less sarcastic if there is something to learn here. 

 

An extra fender on each side is not a different headlight or spark plug.

It is a different body.

If you want to dispute the legitimacy of the history of this Renault

currently owned by The Volo Museum - go right ahead.

 

I am not wasting any further time with you ....

 

 

Jim 

 

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prewarnut

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   I stand by my comments and from my other posts whereby one can see I don't get on here to dispute with people, rather I'm trying to point out what we know or don't know historically and think we all learn more from it (I'm not the one getting testy here). The AACA is about history and generally not about modified cars. All of that said, I dpn't see any rebuttals to my points. There are facts and there are opinions. In essence they are:

1. (fact) There is no known photo or full description of the car loaded onto RMS Titanic except a short description in the manifest.

2. (fact) There are multiple 1912 CB town cars in existence (which rebuts the claim), As I said the "museum" may wish to reconsider it's stance.

3  (fact)  The master of detail, Mr. Cameron, didn't reproduce a "6 fender" (is that even a correct term?) car. Go look at the screen shots of the lift onto the ship in the movie - it is a standard running board towncar. I would think that formulates an obvious discrepency. I won't reproduce the photo here as I don't know which are copyright protected but many movie stills are online to puruse.

4. (opinion) I think most in the car world would not differentiate a minor styling difference, with most everything else the same - especially in the brass car era - unless it was a complete one-off, perhaps from a different carrosserie.

5. (opinion) Some people are unsure that the Renault which sank was even a town car. The suspicion is that the insurance valuation was too great to be a plain chassis, but too little for a French bodied towncar. It is considered it may have been an open tourer.

6. (fact)  Here is another 6 fender Renault CB towncar from on-line (below). Is it the same car pre-restoration? ....but it has different headlights.

 

   Lastly if you want to get snotty, in return I could suggest you edit your video. The number of electric telegraphs/pedestals has nothing to do with the number of engines. The levers on the pedestals are for each right and left engine but the center screw/propeller was powered by a steam turbine which was feed from steam from both reciprocating engines in the engine room and not directly instructed upon through the telegraph. While the Titanic and Olympic (and probably Britannic) had three pedestals on the bridge it was for convenience and the center one was a back-up, but other pedestals existed at the docking brdiges and aft bridges and there weren't three in each location)....I'll let you have the last word.

90260.jpg

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Bob McAnlis 1,000+ Points

Bob McAnlis

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Hello;

please let me add some information to the discussion about Renaults of this era.   I have two of them.       
 

Renault made chassis and not the bodies.   All the bodies were put on by coachbuilders.   Many different coachbuilders.   (You can go to coachbuild.com forum sections.  It is quite a website).     In any case, each coachbuilder had their own take on body details and accessories.    For the larger cars, customers had significant input on what they wanted.   That’s why they are all different.   
 

in the case of the car on the Titanic, it is a 35hp model.  That’s 35 FRENCH horsepower.  This means it was a model CI, the top of the line four cyl with b &s 130mm x 160mm.    One of the cars I have is an earlier 35hp AI which is same bore but 140mm stroke.        
 

the model CB in the discussion and photos above was an 80mm x 120mm mid range model for Renault rated at 12 FRENCH hp.           In 1912, Renault made many models.  Two 2 cyl, eight 4cyl and two 6 cyl types.    
 

there are many smaller models existing including some town cars bodied by expensive carrosiers like Rothchilds and Labourdette  and many with lesser known builders You will find photos of many of these on the Coachbuild site.     There are only a few of the large AI and CI cars remaining.   Since I have been watching the past 20 years or so, I have seen two town cars.  A blue one formerly owned by Tom Lester, and a green one that went thru an auction several years ago in the UK.    There are a few tourings, two roadsters, and the six or so AI race cars.  Actually, all the ones I know about are AI rather than CI.  
 
so, the bottom line is that the chassis were standard, but the bodies were all different to nominal configurations.  And the car on the Titanic was on the top end of the line -  35 French hp and probably suited by one of the more costly body makers.    
 

Hope this helps

thanks 
 

 

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Trulyvintage 10,000+ Points

Trulyvintage

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I stopped by to visit with Greg today ....

The Titanic Exhibit opening has been pushed back until next Spring ....

They are increasing the exhibit size to include brass cars from the era.

 

Jim

 

I took this exclusive video today:

 

@ 

 

 

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Trulyvintage

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I am just leaving Fargo, North Dakota for the day and caught your post so I stopped to reply ...

 

Greg Grams had the opportunity to buy The Renault earlier this year.

When he started researching it - his interest was piqued.

From that - he was inspired to tell - as truthfully as possible - the story of the Titanic.

 

If you ask most folks today about what they know about the Titanic - they probably will 

mention first the 1997 film by James Cameron.

 

If you then ask what image represents the movie - it is either the scene with 

Rose & Jack on the bow where she has her arms outstretched or

the scene in the ship's cargo hold with the Renault where they consummate their love.

 

Greg Grams tries to educate as well as entertain the folks that visit.

 

Every exhibit is an opportunity to do that.

 

So he is gathering information and acquiring things to display ....

 

When I visited last Saturday it was exceptionally busy - a car show - the Volo Village Board Of Directors

were present - the museum offered their annual free admission appreciation day for local residents ...

 

I had giving Greg only a days notice - I ended up spending several hours until closing

with him - I even got to help him out with hanging a chandelier in The Wild West Train ...

 

Volo Museum List Of Exhibits:

 

@ https://www.volocars.com/the-attraction/exhibits  

 

 

Jim

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