1903 Haase, $350,000 not mine

[Angelfish]

1/21 Price reduced to $189,000

 

https://bozeman.craigslist.org/ctd/d/livingston-1903-haase-model-phaeton/7432044519.html

 

 

 

Seller's description:

ABOUT THIS CAR:

Beautiful condition/ small nics from Livingston parade need a restoration


I can include more pictures or information if requested

Serious inquiries only


Hasse cars were produced between 1902-1904 in Milwaukee' Wisconsin for a company named Northwestern Furniture Company or Northwestern Automobile Company. There were two models a 6hp and an 8hp. They may have been known as "Phaeton". They made their debut in the Labor Day parade in Milwaukee 1902. A company in Illinois named H. Brothers may have actually manufactured the cars for Northwestern.

built by the "Northwestern Furniture and Cabinet Company @ 271-3 W. Water St Milwaukee. They manufactured commercial store, office and bar equipment and furniture. For example if you were building a hotel, they would do all the woodwork for the registration desk/counter. They could also produce all the furniture. They were in business from 18??-1972, the building still stands.


Northwestern a German Immigrant owned/started company announced in 1902 it was going to produce an automobile, and 2 models would be offered. a 6 hp Runabout and a 8hp Phaeton. It is believed the 6 hp model with smaller wheels was never produced. The evidence suggests that the company made ONE production Run in 1903 of 15 Model "B" Phaetons. (the ONLY one surviving today is car #5 of the 15) Because of the limited production, all were "Show Stripped" generally only the first few were, so the Haase had gold leaf, as well as red and vermillion pin stripping heavily (and costly) applied. Their Haase Company sales slogan was "Shure sellers, quick sellers" this was not true in the end, and by 1905-6 they still had cars from the 1903 run unsold. They dropped the price on the remaining cars to $850.00 by 1804. The owner and builder spent the rest of his life into the 1960s trying to find and buy back a Haase, he believed all were lost.


The Hasse model to survive today was sold by the "Graham Cycle Co, Chicago" and still has the sales tag attached, the first auto dealers were bike shops. The Haase has a self generating "Phare-Solar" single headlight, Nortwestern did not offer this, so it COULD have been installed by Graham Cycle for the streets of Chicago, or by Chas. O. Krohne, the original owner and buyer, for the wilds of Montana capable of illuminating like daylight nearly 1/2 mile.


Northwestern announced (I forget the year) 1907 ??? It would once again enter the automobile market place with a totally new car, they never did.


In 1903 the Model "B" Phaeton sold for $1,200. the top was $50. more, in fine leather $100. The Haase was an "assembled car", meaning all the parts were bought on the market to build it, for example the rear axle was purchased from "Brown-Lipe" assembled cars of that era were of the highest quality, because the parts were all purchased from one source, who only made one thing, they could then produce the best part. NORTHWESTERN of course produced the body, which is wood, of the highest quality cabinet work. The car has 32 x 3 single tube tires, in 1903 about $1.30 each, 1988 about $350. each, now no longer produced.


In 1903 Ford, Packard, Oldsmobile and Cadillac were all producing cars, BUT they were one cyl, the Haase was 2, then as now cyl represented power, speed, prestige and $$$, being twice the cost of a one cyl auto, and hill climbing, as well all of the cars mentioned had a "Rickety" crude 2 speed planetary transmission operated by awkward foot pedals, like a Model T Ford, which had a to low low, and to high high, The Haase had a 3 speed constant mesh, selective clutch transmission, the only one of its kind ever in that era. NO ONE knows who produced it, the "H" Brothers produced the 2 cyl opposed suction intake 300 ci engine. All steel artillery wheels were produced by Dayton, another very rare feature, as well the Hasse was left had drive, all American cars were right hand till about 1906-8 Left hand meant your gal did not have to get out in the mud of the street when parked at the curb. As well the Hasse had the first known true brake pedal, AND gas pedal of the time, a side bar gear shift for the automatic 3 speed transmission. The Haase had the radiator up front as it should be, as well the first glove box.


Speed of the restored car is better than 37 mph, original posted top speed was 32, a racer of the day. Had not Chas O. Krohne bought the car, there would be no surviving Haase today. By I am guessing 1910-15 all the Haase cars had been junked, dismantled for the valuable parts and scrap. The Haase was 97% complete and original when restored around 1986 to 100 points, it received an invitation to Pebble Beach, to the Concurs de Elegance, attributing to the restoration quality. The difference between a 96 point and a 100 point restoration today is at least 20k depending on car, to well over 200k. 1 in 500,000 cars today are not restored to 100 point standards, due to cost and time constraints

Edited January 21, 2022 by Angelfish (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

Not really familar with the market for the really early orphan cars are, but is it in the ball park?  For instance, there is a really nice looking 1904 cad for $200k less on hemmings and a few other options between that price point 

[alsancle]

33 minutes ago, hidden_hunter said:

Not really familar with the market for the really early orphan cars are, but is it in the ball park?  For instance, there is a really nice looking 1904 cad for $200k less on hemmings and a few other options between that price point 

 

I think the key thing with early cars is if you can get the VCCA to bless the car as London to Brighton eligible.   That means 1904 or earlier.  London to Brighton drives the entire early market.

 

Also,  I don't believe that price is in the ballpark, but I'm not early expert.

Edited January 14, 2022 by alsancle (see edit history)

[hidden_hunter]

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/cadillac/model-a/2239792.html?fbclid=IwAR29IUHwSjYkDpZBt7YjyZ0lEM97whcuXemRUGGVAJK4dhA-EhV6xh-09Xk for instance claims to also be eligible for the london to brighton - maybe I just don't get this market but I'm not sure what the extra 200k is getting you

[edinmass]

It’s about ten times over the number...........it might make 50k. Maybe. Without dating from England, it’s a 35k car.

[TAKerry]

The Cadillac posted is absolutely beautiful and to my untrained eye looks perfect. No disrespect at all meant but its for sale at a consignment dealer. I havent been there yet (but plan to do so) and have heard from people that have both bought and sold that they are great to deal with. Their prices are a bit on the high side compared to private sale though.

[B Jake Moran]

Well that’s a nice story and I may know that shop as one that does work on Peerless and has a good reputation but $350,000?  
 

I would rather have an assembly line car from the 3 Ps or an early Cadillac.  A lot of cars from the early years are extinct.  
 

[wayne sheldon]

I really do not want to "dis" the advertised car? And I am somewhat impressed by the look of it. But a reality of the hobby is, that other than specific historically significant automobiles? Most hobbyists prefer to have marques that their friends have. Reo owners like to buddy around with other Reo owners. Maxwell crowd likes to hang with the other Maxwell people. And well, you know how those Pierce Arrow people are.

Unless it is specifically historically significant? The only one of its kind doesn't add much toa car's value. Years ago, I had a Fuller, in part because it was unusual enough to be cheaper for me to buy than a similar Reo.

 

As for the mentioned 1904 Cadillac for sale? If it is the car I am thinking of? That dealer has been trying to sell it for a few yeàrs now. What does that say about the price?

[hidden_hunter]

1 hour ago, wayne sheldon said:

And I am somewhat impressed by the look of it

It’s nice sure, but is it worth that kinda coin? I certainly get the appeal of early cars (and would want one some day) but I suspect the market for forgotten brands with nothing especially standout is pretty small. Happy to be educated on why this over a brand that survived a bit longer or say a steam car

[suchan]

The seller wrote an excellent descriptor. I enjoyed reading it.

Rarity isn't the same desirability. For me, anyway.

All a unique car says to me, unless it's something really special, is that all the replacement parts will have to be hand-made, and since I have zero fabrication skills and not unlimited finances, I couldn't drive it for fear of breaking something.

A car that can be driven and enjoyed is a better buy. If I get the urge for something like this, I'll go to a museum.

 

[Tyler Morrick]

I'm the seller of this beautiful car. The local museum was interested in it because of the previous owner who was of significant importance to the state of Montana. Hence the huge price tag. I lowered it down to below what Jay leno was offering which was $200,000.00 if completely restored. It has a couple of nicks that need fixed before he will buy it. The owner is battling cancer and doesn't have the time to mess with it. The history is unique to Montana especially Livingston. It does meet all the qualifications for the London to Brighton car run. You all have been very informative and respectful in the comments. 

[Jim Skelly]

1 hour ago, Tyler Morrick said:

I'm the seller of this beautiful car. The local museum was interested in it because of the previous owner who was of significant importance to the state of Montana. Hence the huge price tag. I lowered it down to below what Jay leno was offering which was $200,000.00 if completely restored. It has a couple of nicks that need fixed before he will buy it. The owner is battling cancer and doesn't have the time to mess with it. The history is unique to Montana especially Livingston. It does meet all the qualifications for the London to Brighton car run. You all have been very informative and respectful in the comments. 

 

Since it is the only known Haase, perhaps this museum would be interested in acquiring it?

 

Wisconsin Automotive Museum (wisconsinautomuseum.com)

[JACK M]

7 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

And well, you know how those Pierce Arrow people are.

No, how are they?

Like Corvette people?

Puffy chests, big egos and loud clothes?

 

😄😅😂🤣👅

 

 

Kidding by the way.

[hidden_hunter]

Without prying too much, why was Jay’s offer deemed unsatisfactory? The market seems pretty limited and holding out for a better deal you could be waiting a while? 

 

Its certainly a nice car (and I don’t think anyone is doubting it) 

[vhprs]

Nice car...but....as an owner of 3 High Wheeler (1903 to 06) Holsmans ....which all have 2 cylinder opposed engines...and two 1910 Sears High wheelers....I stumble greatly over the offered price.  Even Sotheby sold MINT totally restored Holsmans under 50K and most of the time...a heck of a lot less.   To me...more sentiment here than market value.  Neat car though...loved the historic story....and, then again,  only my opinion.

[wayne sheldon]

14 hours ago, JACK M said:

No, how are they?

Like Corvette people?

Puffy chests, big egos and loud clothes?

 

😄😅😂🤣👅

 

 

Kidding by the way.

 

My comment was also "tongue firmly in cheek" (I highly recommend looking up the etymology of that phrase, interesting). I used to have a series 80 Pierce, and very much wish I still had it. Like Packard owners, Lincoln owners, and even Stutz owners, they like to hang around together at meets.

I, typically for me, have always been an oddball. Not only did I used to have a Fuller, I also owned one of the very few surviving Sayers automobiles (I sold that one to a private collection that wanted something even Harrah did not have!). I still have a very early only one of one high wheel automobile restoration project.

[edinmass]

I, typically for me, have always been an oddball. 

 

 

Hell Wayne.........here you are just another "normal" guy!

[wayne sheldon]

Hey there Ed, I have said probably a few hundred times in my life, "The only place I have ever found in this world where I seem to belong, is the antique automobile hobby!"

[rg171352]

On 1/16/2022 at 6:01 PM, vhprs said:

Nice car...but....as an owner of 3 High Wheeler (1903 to 06) Holsmans ....which all have 2 cylinder opposed engines...and two 1910 Sears High wheelers....I stumble greatly over the offered price.  Even Sotheby sold MINT totally restored Holsmans under 50K and most of the time...a heck of a lot less.   To me...more sentiment here than market value.  Neat car though...loved the historic story....and, then again,  only my opinion.

Do you have any photos of your Holsmans which you can please share?

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 1/16/2022 at 10:56 AM, Tyler Morrick said:

I lowered it down to below what Jay leno was offering which was $200,000.00 if completely restored. It has a couple of nicks that need fixed before he will buy it.... 

Sorry, Tyler, but that account doesn't sound accurate to me.

If it's true, that's all the better for you;  but that doesn't sound

like the way Jay Leno buys cars.

 

Jay is well-known in the hobby, and quite a number of people

here know him.  We can check your story.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Sorry, Tyler, but that account doesn't sound accurate to me.

If it's true, that's all the better for you;  but that doesn't sound

like the way Jay Leno buys cars.

 

Jay is well-known in the hobby, and quite a number of people

here know him.  We can check your story.

 

I had held my opinion to myself, but the observation is 300 percent accurate.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Here are 2 quotations from the Craig's List ad:

 

"The Haase has a self generating "Phare-Solar" single headlight,

Nort[h]western did not offer this, so it COULD have been installed

by Graham Cycle for the streets of Chicago, or by Chas. O. Krohne,

the original owner and buyer, for the wilds of Montana capable of

illuminating like daylight nearly 1/2 mile."

 

"Speed of the restored car is better than 37 mph, original posted

top speed was 32, a racer of the day."

 

Can the seller document those statements?  Really?  A single gas

headlight that illuminates like daylight nearly half a mile ahead?

 

We're always available to help fellow hobbyists.  But we know

early car history;  we know car collectors nationwide;  and

statements must be correct if the ad is to be honest and accurate.