Value of this 1970 Cutlass?

[NeverEnough]

EDIT: Seller wants too much. I'm moving on. Thanks for the help

 

Curious as to what folks think the value of this 1970 Cutlass is. It's a regular Cutlass, NOT a real 442.
Has a tired Olds 350 in it. No posi rear so one wheel peel bonanza!
Has some rust bubbling under the paint near the door. Underside looks clean. Trunk pan & floor pans seem to be solid.
Does not have working heat or AC, but comes with a complete Vintage Air kit (Not installed)
Disc brakes up front, drum in rear
Power steering, power brakes, manual windows and locks
Does not seem to be loaded with bondo (Magnet sticks to quarter panel)

Photo:  https://imgur.com/a/f8eKyfA

Edited December 21, 2021 by NeverEnough (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

Based on one photo and your non-specific description, the value is somewhere between scrap value and a million bucks. More photos and an more detailed description, including an understanding of how much rust repair was done under that repaint, is necessary to provide a useful answer. The car has a flat four door hood, not even the correct Cutlass S hood (and no, I'm not talking about the W25 hood found on every Faux Four Two today), so history of the car, including real info on whether or not it was hit and had the nose replaced, is also needed.

Edited December 19, 2021 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

It looks like a nice car.  You must have fun driving it.

Its value, of course, isn't scrap, nor a million;

and some Oldsmobile specialist can give you

a better answer, or at least a general idea based

on what we can see. 

 

Do you have more pictures, so we can see the

state of the interior and the engine bay?  Here is the

one picture copied into the forum to make it easier

for viewers:

 

[NeverEnough]

57 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

Based on one photo and your non-specific description, the value is somewhere between scrap value and a million bucks. More photos and an more detailed description, including an understanding of how much rust repair was done under that repaint, is necessary to provide a useful answer. The car has a flat four door hood, not even the correct Cutlass S hood (and no, I'm not talking about the W25 hood found on every Faux Four Two today), so history of the car, including real info on whether or not it was hit and had the nose replaced, is also needed.

Seller hasn't been in an accident with it and doesn't have a record of it nor did they do any rust repair.

 

I don't have any other photos just a bunch of videos that's too much to upload. The undercarriage looks clean the interior is very clean has a tear in the headliner and some pitting on the door handles but clearly not the end of the world.

 

Overall the car is pretty clean and not a rust bucket

[NeverEnough]

Just now, John_S_in_Penna said:

It looks like a nice car.  You must have fun driving it.

Its value, of course, isn't scrap, nor a million;

and some Oldsmobile specialist can give you

a better answer, or at least a general idea based

on what we can see. 

 

Do you have more pictures, so we can see the

state of the interior and the engine bay?  Here is the

one picture copied into the forum to make it easier

for viewers:

 

Please see my post above. I don't own the car I am looking to buy it.

[Guest]

Hmmm?

The muscle car market is pretty strong right now and, while this isn't a true 442, it's still a very presentable car, judging by the picture and limited information.  I would hazard a guess it's probably worth $12-15K as it sits.  many things could alter that guess, bench seat column shift or buckets and console with floor shift?, etc, etc.

Cheers, Greg

[joe_padavano]

49 minutes ago, NeverEnough said:

Seller hasn't been in an accident with it and doesn't have a record of it nor did they do any rust repair.

 

I don't have any other photos just a bunch of videos that's too much to upload. The undercarriage looks clean the interior is very clean has a tear in the headliner and some pitting on the door handles but clearly not the end of the world.

 

Overall the car is pretty clean and not a rust bucket

 

The hood currently on the car is not the one it was born with. Someone replaced it for a reason. That should tell you the seller either doesn't know the history of the car or is purposely misleading you. Either way, tread lightly. Again, without far more detail or in-person inspection, there is no way to know what's under that new paint. FYI, here's a photo of what the original hood looked like. Note the two raised areas that are not present on the car's current hood.

 

 

F85s came with the flat hood that is on the car in question. In 1970, the only F85 two door was the Sport Coupe, which has the B-pilar and metal frames around the door glass. The car in this thread does not.

 

[Marty Roth]

Did we see that car on "Bring A Trailer" auction site?

[NeverEnough]

2 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

 

The hood currently on the car is not the one it was born with. Someone replaced it for a reason. That should tell you the seller either doesn't know the history of the car or is purposely misleading you. Either way, tread lightly. Again, without far more detail or in-person inspection, there is no way to know what's under that new paint. FYI, here's a photo of what the original hood looked like. Note the two raised areas that are not present on the car's current hood.

 

 

F85s came with the flat hood that is on the car in question. In 1970, the only F85 two door was the Sport Coupe, which has the B-pilar and metal frames around the door glass. The car in this thread does not.

 

Well this is going to be a resto mod project for me so I don't really care if it has the factory hood on it. That isn't the point here. I'm not looking for all original numbers matching car. I'm just trying to gauge the value of this actual vehicle

Edited December 20, 2021 by NeverEnough (see edit history)

[NeverEnough]

1 hour ago, Marty Roth said:

Did we see that car on "Bring A Trailer" auction site?

No

[61polara]

As it's already a modified vehicle, most of our values would be based on a unmodified car.  Make an offer based on what you expect to pay for a car you plan to further modify.  In other words, offer what you see as value to you based on your plans for the car.  

[Terry Bond]

Rather than continuing to kick this can down the street and having us try to answer the "what's it worth" question, why not tell us what the "asking" price is and see what kind of reactions you get?

Terry

[joe_padavano]

12 hours ago, NeverEnough said:

Well this is going to be a resto mod project for me so I don't really care if it has the factory hood on it. That isn't the point here. I'm not looking for all original numbers matching car. I'm just trying to gauge the value of this actual vehicle

And YOU'RE missing the point. The usual reason for replacing the hood is a front end collision or rust on the leading edge. Again, this should be a warning sign that the car requires more careful inspection. Apparently you've already made up your mind to get it, so good luck and enjoy.

[NeverEnough]

Wow, angry bunch here.

 

Seller wants $25k

 

Happy Holidays!

[John_S_in_Penna]

Most AACA members are friendly and helpful.

I guess one or more here were just making their

point strongly.  I'm sure they didn't mean to offend.

 

If the seller is a dealer--or an overly optimistic

private party--the asking price of a car could be

almost ludicrous, far above a car's true worth.

And far above what the dealer just paid.  I often

use the formula--humorously but based in fact:

 

DEALER PRICE /2  =  REALISTIC PRICE.

 

That doesn't always apply, of course, but it's often

pretty accurate.

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

1 minute ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Most AACA members are friendly and helpful.

I guess one or more here were just making their

point strongly.  I'm sure they didn't mean to offend.

The issue is when one takes the time to post an informed response, and the OP doesn't want to hear it. I've never understood the people who post "what is this car worth" questions when they've already made up their mind. It kind of wastes everyone's time, and usually it's only to reaffirm one's decision. As I said, this car has some warning signs that the OP would be wise to run to ground before paying what is likely something well into five figures asking price.  That's his call. He's been provided the info and the response was "that isn't the point here". After pointing out several times that the non-original parts COULD be signs of underlying damage, the OP chooses not to hear that.

[rocketraider]

$25k is too much. You can get a decent, sorted-out non-W 442 for that money.

 

The $12-15k figure someone else tossed out is more in line, especially considering what you'll spend on restomods and especially driveline work. If engine is tired, you can count on the transmission and rear axle being the same. That can easily add another $20k depending what you do.

 

Not so much angry, but if that car's been clipped (highly probable after 50 years) you need to look close at the frame especially behind the control arms. Weak point there, I've seen dozens of these cars with cracked frames in that area and a front end hit can worsen that. Look for cracks or a scab patch.

 

Is the rust bubble on the door, quarter, or front fender? 

 

 

[NeverEnough]

Thanks. I know $25k is too much & never considered paying that. I was thinking $15k is even high, but that would be a reasonable top dollar to pay for it

[NeverEnough]

1 minute ago, rocketraider said:

$25k is too much. You can get a decent, sorted-out non-W 442 for that money.

 

The $12-15k figure someone else tossed out is more in line, especially considering what you'll spend on restomods and especially driveline work. If engine is tired, you can count on the transmission and rear axle being the same. That can easily add another $20k depending what you do.

 

Not so much angry, but if that car's been clipped (highly probable after 50 years) you need to look close at the frame especially behind the control arms. Weak point there, I've seen dozens of these cars with cracked frames in that area and a front end hit can worsen that. Look for cracks or a scab patch.

 

Is the rust bubble on the door, quarter, or front fender? 

 

 

Rust bubbles look to be at the bottom of the door

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 minute ago, joe_padavano said:

I've never understood the people who post "what is this car worth" questions when they've already made up their mind. 

Joe, as one of our resident Olds experts,

you're the perfect person to listen to!

 

I'm sure there are times when a person really

wants a car, but wants someone to assure him

that's he's making the right decision.  We all

get help from people who know more than we.

[60FlatTop]

The old car guys rarely tell how much they paid for a car or how much they sold one for. Seems they have their own reasons for keeping it secret. Based on years of nondisclosure there is not valid information.

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, NeverEnough said:

Wow, angry bunch here.

 

Seller wants $25k

 

Happy Holidays!

 

Seller is not going to get it.

[Guest]

Hmmmm?

Pretty tough on a new member who's only crime is coming here asking for assistance.

I've read the endless threads about "getting more people involved in our hobby" but if the novice doesn't phrase every sentence in terms we expect or post an encyclopedia of pictures with their request they find themselves besieged with harsh replies or ridiculed for not possessing the very knowledge they came seeking.

This practice is not exclusive to the AACA forums.  I've found it on every auto related forum I use.  It happens with regularity and I can never understand it.  But the results are usually the same, the new member just moves on.

Understandably many newcomer's first question is the same as the OP's question here, which makes perfect sense to me.  Perhaps looking to get into the hobby with their first car, they like a particular model, can they afford it?, is the price correct?  Find a vintage car forum and ask. 

Like most of you, I've been in the hobby for many years and, again like you, I could give a ballpark figure on just about any car presented, with the caveat that I'm only estimating on the evidence provided, such as the OP's info and picture.  Yes of course there are many hidden things that could change that estimate, but if all is as presented, couldn't most here give an honest "to and from" figure?   

Years ago I bought a 1969 Chevelle factory big block 4 speed car.  When I arrived at the seller's house I saw the car had a regular flat hood generic to any Chevelle of the same year instead of the correct big block hood.  I was disappointed to say the least and asked the reason, believing the car may have been hit as well.  The seller was a nice and I felt very honest guy.  He said he regularly parked the car in his driveway and one night someone came by and simply stole the big block hood.  This was in the days before repros were available.  The only replacement he could readily find was the plain hood.  The rest of the car still had it's original paint and no evidence of ever having been hit.  My point being, strange things can happen.

Joe P.  I know you on this, as well as other sites, you've answered many questions for me and helped steer me in the right direction more than once.  Your knowledge of Oldsmobiles is exceptional so I find it difficult to believe the closest estimate you can give on the car in question is "the value is somewhere between scrap value and a million bucks".  If you really wanted to, you could probably estimate this car's value better than anyone else here with the proper caveats, of course.

Cheers, Greg

Edited December 20, 2021 by GregLaR (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Which post is the angry one? As usual I think there’s some great advice in this thread.

 

If he OP pays around 15 K and the car is not a rot box underneath he’s probably OK.  Still a bit high, I would think.

 

However, most cars how much worse than they appear.

[NeverEnough]

Seller claims he has been offered more than $15k previously. He can keep it I'll keep looking

[mike6024]

[John_S_in_Penna]

Mike, which website are you showing?

It looks like you did a search, in some way,

to show the history of past results for a model.

[mike6024]

That's just BAT. You can search for anything. 

 

https://bringatrailer.com/

 

 

[bryankazmer]

In all seriousness, if you're going to rod it anyway, why pay for a better car? - get one with worn mechanics, tired or non-authentic interior, but avoid rust. 

 

Heck, these days that puts you on the cover of Hemmings Classic Car.

[Ed Luddy]

Having recently posted my authentic 1972 442 convertible on a few Olds sites and online (kijiji, marketplace) I came to realize the amount of negativity generated by so called experts and keyboard warriors makes for a very depressing experience. After dealing with 6 or so know it alls' without any cash and a lack of real expertise I did sell it for a lot less than I paid for it to a classic car dealer. Why? I needed the space, money and most of all he wasn't a rude a$$hat.

Also he showed up with cash, not stories of glory days.

[NeverEnough]

3 hours ago, bryankazmer said:

In all seriousness, if you're going to rod it anyway, why pay for a better car? - get one with worn mechanics, tired or non-authentic interior, but avoid rust. 

 

Heck, these days that puts you on the cover of Hemmings Classic Car.

Because I want something decent to drive as I mess with it. I'm not Mr Baller that can just drop $100k+ on a fancy project in 1 shot

[Rivguy]

Maybe it would be better to present the car, describe it's condition, then state how much the seller is asking for it. Then ask if that's a fair price or if the poster should offer less. It's hard to gauge the real value until the car has been inspected, there is so much that varies in each individual car's condition. The circumstances of a non commercial seller can greatly affect the price, a business would be more likely to hold out for a higher price. I think that you have to gauge the price in relation to similar cars that are available in your area. I'm an old guy, I bought my first car in '74, a 66 Mustang coupe with 289 and four speed. I paid 300 bucks for it, If I had been willing to spend a couple hundred more I could have gotten a fastback or a convertible! I'm a real cheapskate so it's hard to imagine that I'd ever spend a lot of money on a vintage car. 

I agree with NeverEnough it's best to get a running car that you can use and enjoy while you fix it up. And of course it's not good to buy some blown apart piece of junk even if it's cheap. I was at a new vintage car dealer in Santa Clara, American Motors, Customs and Classics, that has a big selection of previously restored cars for sale. These are nice turnkey cars. They had a '69 Chevelle coupe, (non SS) that they were asking 59,000 dollars for. It seemed like a lot of money to me, but if you consider how much a good paint job, bodywork, chrome, upholstery, and engine and  driveline rebuilding would set you back, that doesn't seem like so much. 

It was good for me to look at some really nice cars, to keep my thinking in perspective.  I'm usually only looking at junk.

You know how much you can comfortably afford to spend, keep looking until you find something that meets your needs. Compare the cars you find with each other.

[mike6024]

The Cutlass being discussed here seems relatively rust free, and the door "rust bubbling" may be due to rain getting inside the door and not draining out causing some rust from inside out near the lower seam. The question of whether it had been in a frontal collision due to the swapped hood, who knows, maybe the hood was swapped for some other reason, like just the hood got damaged somehow. I assume it is an automatic since no info to the contrary. So $15k is probably about right, but if the body is really clean with minimal rust then I could see someone paying more than $15. Maybe 15-18 would be my guess.

[mike6024]

 

Nobody seemed to want this 6 cylinder automatic

BID TO $4,300 ON 7/8/19

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-oldsmobile-cutlass-5/

Edited December 21, 2021 by mike6024 (see edit history)

[Guest]

Hmmm?

Interesting, I never knew the Cutlass was available with a 6 cylinder. 

[TAKerry]

Talk about a sheep in wolves clothing, that would be the perfect car for the op. Looks pretty decent and ready for a motor transplant.

[Marty Roth]

9 hours ago, mike6024 said:

 

Nobody seemed to want this 6 cylinder automatic

BID TO $4,300 ON 7/8/19

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-oldsmobile-cutlass-5/

Surely the unusual combination for the year

[joe_padavano]

7 hours ago, GregLaR said:

Hmmm?

Interesting, I never knew the Cutlass was available with a 6 cylinder. 

 

The Buick V6 was the base engine in the F85 models in the 1964-65 model years. Cutlass models came with a V8 only (and yeah, they're the same car except for trim details). In 1966 the V6 was replaced with the Chevy I6, but again in the F85 models only. In 1967 Olds "downgraded" some of the model names, and the I6 was a factory option in the Cutlass models as well as in F85s. This continued through the 1971 model year. Note that for 1965-71, the VIN is different on six cylinder cars vs. eight cylinder cars.

[joe_padavano]

15 minutes ago, Marty Roth said:

Surely the unusual combination for the year

A whopping 566 Cutlass S Holiday Coupes built with the I6 in the 1969 model year. Nearly all of them are now Faux-Four-Twos.

Edited December 21, 2021 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

Ive got a 66 chevelle convertible with an I-6. They made about twice as many SS v8 convertibles. I will most likely restore it to factory spec. Def will be unusual.