likeold Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 (edited) Okay guys here we go, just took delivery of my 1938 Buick Special. I purchased it know it had this engine noise hoping it was something simple but I'm starting to think its more serous. Seems to be louder on passengers side, towards rear of engine around the cam cover. Sounds like a dry bearing spinning squeaking and whistling. I was hoping it was a vacuum leak but I don't think so. Engine oil is clean and full. Pulled of valve cover and spark plug cover to listen still could not pin point, all nice and clean under the cover. I think next I will pull side lifter cover to inspect. What do you think, can I run the car with the lifter cover off? Not sure I will see or hear much in there though. .. Edited October 30, 2021 by likeold (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 You can run the engine with the valve cover removed. Is there adequate oil on the rockers and stuff? This is hard to diagnose via this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michealbernal Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 I would begin by putting a few drops of oil on all the pivot points on each rocker and see if it quits squeaking. It sounds like possibly a dry rocker arm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 I know a noise is hard to describe and diagnose on here but I just need to try different things. It does seem to be coming from the valve train and your oil idea did come to mind, I will try that tomorrow. Also I would like to adjust the valves and I could not find the process in my service manual. Is there a place that would detail how to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 Could the noise be coming from the distributor? It`s in the middle, and on the passenger side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 Have you got an automotive stethoscope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 Yes, I do and I have been poking around with it, can't pin point the noise. It does not sound deep or heavy metal sound, engine runs pretty smooth and no other noises of concern. Funny thing is the engine seems to stumble or skip when it makes the noise, that might not be related though. I'm just getting into this, don't know anything about these straight 8's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 29 minutes ago, pont35cpe said: Could the noise be coming from the distributor? It`s in the middle, and on the passenger side. This seems like a possibility as it is spinning and if it has a bearing in it that is kinda what I was thinking. I just filtered out how to remove the hood and side panels. I still don't have any power in my barn because of the northeaster storm we had on Tuesday so working with a flashlight it tough. More testing tomorrow. Maybe I will pull out the distributor to inspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, likeold said: This seems like a possibility as it is spinning and if it has a bearing in it that is kinda what I was thinking. I just filtered out how to remove the hood and side panels. I still don't have any power in my barn because of the northeaster storm we had on Tuesday so working with a flashlight it tough. More testing tomorrow. Maybe I will pull out the distributor to inspect. There may be a place to grease the shaft/bushings(i don`t think there is a bearing), may be a zerk on side of distributor below the vac. adv. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick looks fine for 39 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 You might try a poor man's stethoscope which is a wood dowel placed on suspicious areas of the engine and the other end placed on the mastoid bone behind your ear. This method worked for Beethoven. Thanks Leif 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 I would pull the valve cover first and look for a dry rocker arm. The inlet for the oil supply to the rocker arms should have a small strainer. It would not be the first time that one of those strainers got clogged up and restricted the oil to the rocker arm assembly causing noise like you are describing. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, MCHinson said: I would pull the valve cover first and look for a dry rocker arm. The inlet for the oil supply to the rocker arms should have a small strainer. It would not be the first time that one of those strainers got clogged up and restricted the oil to the rocker arm assembly causing noise like you are describing. I do have the cover off and saw the small oil feed line in the front of the valve assembly. Will have to look close for a strainer I don't recall seeing anything that resembled something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 24 minutes ago, buick looks fine for 39 said: You might try a poor man's stethoscope which is a wood dowel placed on suspicious areas of the engine and the other end placed on the mastoid bone behind your ear. This method worked for Beethoven. Thanks Leif Thanks, I have done that before but now I have a nice real stethoscope with probe, helped me find the bad being on my Model A rear end nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, likeold said: I do have the cover off and saw the small oil feed line in the front of the valve assembly. Will have to look close for a strainer I don't recall seeing anything that resembled something like that. My personal experience is with the 320, but the 248 should be similar. There is an oil line fitting on the end of the valve train assembly near the front of the engine that you can unscrew. The strainer is inside that fitting. Most people just remove the strainer these days as they seem to cause more trouble than they are worth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock10 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Is there oil on all of the rockers, push rods and spring tips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 18 minutes ago, Rock10 said: Is there oil on all of the rockers, push rods and spring tips? There should be plenty of oil all over the entire assembly. If not, it tends to squeak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 31 minutes ago, Rock10 said: Is there oil on all of the rockers, push rods and spring tips? Yes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 following Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Oil for the top end enters at the front right corner of the head. The screen mentioned is here if it is still installed. This fitting, or the one where the pipe on top of the head is attached , has a reduced opening. About 1/16 inch or smaller. This is the outlet of the oil filter if so equipped. The distributer has no bearing. It does have a bushing. I have never heard a squeaking from one. There is a grease zerk. Don't get carried away. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 Today I squirted oil on all the rockers, springs and everything moving while the engine was running. Forced oil in the rocker arm holes. Noise would still come and go, it sounds like a small dry bearing not deep in the motor. I can not pin point the sound with the stethoscope. I took off the small oil feed pipe and 90 degree fitting, cleaned and blew it out, did not see a screen. Also greased the distributor zerk fitting and removed fan belt and ran just to make sure it was not the water pump, I pretty much knew it wasn't but wanted to make sure. Its a strange noise, sounds like a small spinning dry bearing comes and goes, sometimes whistles and pops, I'm still wondering if its a vacuum leak but I disconnected the windshield wiper and the engine revved up and seemed to have pretty good vacuum when I put my finger over the line, I don't have a meter. I will keep poking around need to put it aside for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 If you can't rule-out the distributor as the source i recommend that you remove it and inspect it on the bench. I just pulled the one in my '38 Century yesterday and it's a pretty simple task. Once on the bench you can spin it, listen for squeaks and feel for slop or binding. I removed the breaker plate and cleaned-up the centrifugal advance mechanism. There is a grease fitting for the upper shaft bearing; the lower bearing is lubricated by the engine oil. There is also a felt pad under the rotor which should be oiled to lubricate the upper portion of the shaft, which includes the breaker cam. My engine was just timed and I had set the octane selector to "0", so I can set the distributor back exactly where it was when I reinstall it. It's good practice to set the rotor so that it is pointing to the #1 tower on the cap before pulling the distributor. That way you know precisely how the shaft should be indexed for re-installation. Note that the rotor will rotate a few degrees CW as you pull it out due to the spiral gear. Mine was basically pointing at 12 o'clock at the point it stopped moving (started at about 11 o'clock). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 I will pay closer attention to the distributor, I just did a full compression check all cylinders where 90-100 psi. I starting to wonder about the automatic heat flapper in the exhaust manifold, noise could be coming from that area. I know in the past these were problematic and would freeze in place. Should I be able to move this freely if I remove the springs? Seems pretty tight at the moment, if my ears are working sounds like the noise is coming from that area now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 The exhaust flapper is frozen and partially closed, I looked up there with a mirror and it looks to be bent on the top only letting half the exhaust out. This has to be a huge back pressure issue. I'm wondering if I can discard the flapper by driving the pin out if I can get it move without taking the manifold off, what are you ideas? I'm not sure how the flapper is attached to the rod. Once removed I will have to fill the two holes with epoxy where the rod went through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 The flapper valve is spot welded to the rod. You will need to disassemble the exhaust manifold a bit to be able to grind the spot welds off and remove the flapper from the exhaust valve body. You can then simply leave the rod in place. It will look original but resolve the issues caused by the flapper valve. Cars, Inc. now sells a nice copper insulating plate that you can install between the exhaust valve body and the carburetor. That makes my 1937 Roadmaster a bit cold natured for the first few minutes of operation, but is a nice improvement to the system to overcome the issues caused by use of modern fuels with the exhaust heating the carburetor. https://www.ebay.com/itm/184953199591?hash=item2b1011dbe7:g:X0kAAOSwqvVg9crd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michealbernal Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 I wonder if it might be back pressure in the exhaust system caused by the malfunctioning flapper valve. Maybe the beck pressure is escaping thru a small pin hole in one of the exhaust manifold to cylinder head gaskets. I would remove the flapper valve and see how it sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 I got the exhaust/intake manifold off today, cut out the frozen flapper with a dremil tool, wasn't easy but got it out. Does anyone know the exhaust/intake torgue spec, putting it back together now, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 25. Start from the center and alternate towards the outside. Are you using new gaskets? Also the washers are supposed to be Belleville. Put the cup side out, dish side in. Also if you have time pick up some copper hi temp antiseize and put on both sides of the gasket as the whole assy moves a bit as it heats up. Mark Shaw knows which stuff to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Engle Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Start relatively low torque setting. I prefer to check for vacuum leaks at low torque and only tighten more if you find a leak. Too tight and you risk cracking the exhaust manifold. Cast iron can stand lots of compression during heating. It is poor on tension and will crack easily when it cools down. Bob Engle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 Okay no number just tight? Of course on investigation found a new problem this could be the vacuum leak noise I'm hearing. There is a significant crack in the intake manifold under the carb, that has been fixed with epoxy in the past and was starting to grow and probably leaking again. I cleaned it up a little, thank god for JB Weld, that will have to be the fix for now, see attached pic. Need an intake manifold if someone has one for sale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Torque spec is 25 lbs ft or ft lbs if you prefer. Like Bob said start at like 7 or 8 and go up in small increments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Wow that manifold looks like the one I had and junked. Call Dave Tachney or PM Greg 2Carb40. And if you get a separate intake reassemble with the exhaust and have a machine shop with a long table grind it down even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 A little history here at least what I was told form the previous owner. He had the manifold pulled and had them grounded even on a long table as you mentioned some ports were off .0090. That was why it was so easy to remove. But a question why would they put it back together with an extra washer on ever stud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 They ground off too much meat on the manifold when they dressed it. It’s to prevent the nut hitting the untapped shaft. Toss the manifold. Get a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Your best source for replacement manifolds for your car would likely be Dave Tacheny. He sells 1936-1941 Buick parts. You can best reach him between 4 and 7 pm Central at 763-427-3460. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) What year ranges intake/exhaust manifold will fit the 1938 Buick Special? There is one on eBay now says 1936-1937 Series 40. I'm going to epoxy this crack for now and see if the weird noise goes away. Hopefully this crack is causing the noise, good chance if it goes all the way threw. Need to put a second coat of epoxy on it today before I can put it back together. Edited November 3, 2021 by likeold (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Intake must be 1938 or later to "fit" properly. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 While I Dave Tacheny is the best source that I know of for the manifolds, the 1938 and 1939 use different intake manifolds. Is this car a 1938 or a 1939? In the discussion, I see it being described in different places as both 1938 and as 1939. Exactly which manifold are you looking for? You indicated that it is the Intake Manifold that is cracked, but typically, the Exhaust Manifold is much more likely to be cracked. If you need an exhaust manifold valve body, the same one is used for 1937, 1938 and 1939 on 40 Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, MCHinson said: While I Dave Tacheny is the best source that I know of for the manifolds, the 1938 and 1939 use different intake manifolds. Is this car a 1938 or a 1939? In the discussion, I see it being described in different places as both 1938 and as 1939. Exactly which manifold are you looking for? You indicated that it is the Intake Manifold that is cracked, but typically, the Exhaust Manifold is much more likely to be cracked. If you need an exhaust manifold valve body, the same one is used for 1937, 1938 and 1939 on 40 Series. The car is a 1938 Special, I need both the intake and exhaust would like to buy it assembled as one unit. Yes, it is the intake manifold with the crack. The other issue is that when the two where machined to make flat it appears they might have ground too much off causing the need for extra washers on the studs so they do not bottom out when tightened. Tomorrow I plan to put it all back together using the original manifold with the frozen heat flapper removed and the intake crack epoxied. Hoping my whistles weird noise is gone. If so I will drive it for a while with the idea a new manifold set is in the cards for the future, sounds like it needs to be from a 1938 only from what you say. If I still hear the weird noise I will pull the rest of the few hairs left out of my head. Edited November 3, 2021 by likeold (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 If the car is a 1939, then you need a set of 1939 Manifolds. Call Dave Tacheny between 4 and 7 pm Central at 763-427-3460. He probably has a set and his prices are very reasonable. You might also want to edit your first post in this discussion again to correct the year, since you started off saying the car was a 1938 Special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
likeold Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share Posted November 3, 2021 Ya know I'm losing it sorry for the confusion I looked at so many cars before I bought this one I forgot what I bought. Its a 1938 !!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now