Period images to relieve some of the stress

[twin6]

Same car, different location?

[58L-Y8]

The one-off 1930 Gardner FWD was a prototype which never made production.  Gardner was one of the struggling small carmakers the crooked, crazy promoter Archie Andrews tried to con into building this Ruxton FWD cars.  Both Moon and Kissel got involved to their ultimate demise.  Andrews wasn't done yet, inserted himself onto the Hupmobile board, while a prototype FWD Hupmobile was built and still exist, his shenanigans and the legal fights he embroiled the management in brought the company to its knees by 1936. 

When Archie Andrews with his Trojan horse FWD 'straw' car and boys showed up at the gate, best thing to do was pull up the drawbridge!

[John_Mereness]

6 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

The one-off 1930 Gardner FWD was a prototype which never made production.  Gardner was one of the struggling small carmakers the crooked, crazy promoter Archie Andrews tried to con into building this Ruxton FWD cars.  Both Moon and Kissel got involved to their ultimate demise.  Andrews wasn't done yet, inserted himself onto the Hupmobile board, while a prototype FWD Hupmobile was built and still exist, his shenanigans and the legal fights he embroiled the management in brought the company to its knees by 1936. 

When Archie Andrews with his Trojan horse FWD 'straw' car and boys showed up at the gate, best thing to do was pull up the drawbridge!

Somewhere back pre-page 110 or so there is an auto show photo of the car 

[LCK81403]

So is this coupe a Packard?  I see in the photo's background a Great Lakes iron ore boat; boats that were very common loading out of several ports in Minnesota and transiting to steel mills in the east.  The presence of the iron ore boat tips off that the car is somewhere beside one of the lakes.

 

More interesting is how and why the bizarre looking car windshield was built that way.  I have other photographs that show this type of windshield under construction in the factory, and other photos that show details inside and outside.  It seems that in most cases the windshield's architecture was meant to shed rain water and perhaps afford shielding from the sun.  I have seen only one example of a windshield wiper attached to a windshield built in this configuration.  It may have been an after market wiper installed by the owner.

 

 

 

[edinmass]

5 hours ago, LCK81403 said:

1924 Heine-Velox Special, one of the first cars to use hydraulic brakes.

 

It’s even less attractive in person. Interesting, yes. 

 

 

 

[keiser31]

11 minutes ago, LCK81403 said:

So is this coupe a Packard?  I see in the photo's background a Great Lakes iron ore boat; boats that were very common loading out of several ports in Minnesota and transiting to steel mills in the east.  The presence of the iron ore boat tips off that the car is somewhere beside one of the lakes.

 

More interesting is how and why the bizarre looking car windshield was built that way.  I have other photographs that show this type of windshield under construction in the factory, and other photos that show details inside and outside.  It seems that in most cases the windshield's architecture was meant to shed rain water and perhaps afford shielding from the sun.  I have seen only one example of a windshield wiper attached to a windshield built in this configuration.  It may have been an after market wiper installed by the owner.

 

 

 

The design of the slanted windshield may be to deter the reflections from the headlights behind you at night. I know it is a BEAR to drive at night when that happens in my 1931 DB coupe. That may be why the later models all had slanted windshields, besides the aerodynamics.

Edited May 13, 2020 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[StanleyRegister]

3 hours ago, twin6 said:

Same car, different location?

This is an intriguing pair of photos.  The angle is EXACTLY the same, left to right and up to down.  Every little bit of space between parts, every bit of something that's revealed, is identical.  I was tempted to say that the car was edited into the building picture - the shadow looks vague, and the reflection above the running board is the same as the waterrside picture, with the top of the reflection brushed away.  Even the dirt marks on the rear tire are at the same place.  BUT - the front wheel is in a different position!  Valve stem & dirt marks are rotated.

[1937hd45]

Thanks Walt! The whole Gang is happy! 

 

 

Bob 

Edited May 13, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

If you find one of these let me know.

[Flim Flam Man]

[Flim Flam Man]

[Flim Flam Man]

[Flim Flam Man]

Jack Johnson

 

[Flim Flam Man]

 

 

[Flim Flam Man]

[StanleyRegister]

The Packard coupe windshield is very reminiscent of Brewster's windshields.

Edited May 13, 2020 by StanleyRegister
fixed text (see edit history)

[LCK81403]

Yes the Brewster also had such a unique windshield.  Here are five photos of a 1921 Brewster.

 

[58L-Y8]

Hugo Pfau wrote in his old "Cars & Parts" magazine articles that this unusual windshield style was referred to as a "Brewster' windshield in the trade.  As noted, it was to reduce the reflections from the vertical windshield and also allow ventilation when some panels were hinged.  Others picked up the design, Holbrook in the case of the Packard, Judkins, for many of their berlines, even production body makers built this style.   '20's Auburns have it.   Its an odd-looking thing, fortunately disappeared when the raked, slanted windshield took hold. 

[8E45E]

21 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Its an odd-looking thing, fortunately disappeared when the raked, slanted windshield took hold. 

I bet gas station attendants were relieved as well.

 

Craig

[58L-Y8]

Now, for something completely obscure and largely unknown, even among old car people: the 1930-1932 Hupmobile Deluxe and Custom Eights Models H and U.    With their best sales year in 1928, Hupmobile in November 1928 bought the Chandler-Cleveland Motor Corporation of Cleveland, Ohio to gain more production capacity in anticipation of greater sales for 1929 and beyond.  With that purchase came the 1929 Chandler Royal Eight 85, upper medium-priced line around $2,000, on a 124" wheelbase, powered by a 340 cu. in. L-Head straight eight.  The Chandler Royal Eight 85 was a step up from their top-line 1929 Hupmobile Eight Model M, 120" wheelbase, 268 cu. in. priced $1,825-$1,955.

 

For the 1930 model year, Chandler was gone, in its place were these new Hupmobile Eights, Model H 125" and Model U 137" wheelbase, 133 Horsepower 365 cu. in. L-head straight eights, priced $2,100 for the H, the U aa a $2,495 7-passenger sedan, at $2,645 for the limousine.  Clearly, Hupmobile was now trying to enter the crowded segment populated by Packard Standard Eight, LaSalle, Studebaker President, Graham-Paige 827 & 837, Gardner 150, Elcar 130, soon REO Royale, Nash Ambassador and Buick Eight 90.  In the late 1920's booming market, this was the emergent lucrative segment most of the medium-priced carmakers were going to cash-in on, chasing the lead of Packard and LaSalle.  Timing wasn't on their side...

 

Once they were on the market, Hupmobile rode it out in hopes the Depression would abate and these become profitable as did so many other carmakers.  From The Production Figure Book of U. S. Cars by Jerry Heasley, copyright 1977, for the three model years 1930-1932, Model H: 3,468; Model U: 690 (702 by other sources).    While a few Model H examples do turn up, one at Hershey years ago, does anyone know of or has seen a Custom Eight Model U or U-237.  The Model U had a luxuriously appointed body by Raulang of Cleveland.   In addition to the sedans, a Victoria Coupe on the 137" wheelbase was added for 1931-1932 seasons.

[John_Mereness]

3 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Hugo Pfau wrote in his old "Cars & Parts" magazine articles that this unusual windshield style was referred to as a "Brewster' windshield in the trade.  As noted, it was to reduce the reflections from the vertical windshield and also allow ventilation when some panels were hinged.  Others picked up the design, Holbrook in the case of the Packard, Judkins, for many of their berlines, even production body makers built this style.   '20's Auburns have it.   Its an odd-looking thing, fortunately disappeared when the raked, slanted windshield took hold. 

I will tell you that the sloped windshield on the 1932 RR PI matched to the divider being up (which had a slight green tint to the divider glass) was actually incredibly difficult to drive via all the reflections inside the car and I was quick to put the divider down and leave it down - then all was fine other than the car was huge with a plethora of mirrors that aligned with nothing and you could not see out  of the car except to the front and left front.  Interestingly,  in the photograph you are not only seeing through the windows, though seeing the refelction of what is on the opposite side of the car behind me taking photos. 

 

 

[John_Mereness]

[John_Mereness]

[John_Mereness]

[twin6]

The Packard coupe and this 243 (enclosed drive limo?) have bodies by Holbrook.

[LCK81403]

Somewhere lurking in my files are factory photos showing this unique style windshield being built up as the body is produced.  I have been searching for those photos without luck.  From what I could discern in the photos, building out the unique windshield was perhaps a "show stopper", in that probably nothing more was done to complete the body work until the windshield was finished.  But returning to Auburn, the 1925 6-66 and 1926 8-88 had this type windshield.  A 1927 Auburn ad shows three of their models with the peculiar windshield.  Photos of the 1928 four-door sedan show the unique windshield while the Model 6-80 Victoria does not have it.  Also in 1928 the Model 76 has the peculiar windshield but the Model 115 Phaeton sedan does not.  Hence I am left with a question if the peculiar windshield was a special order option.  It seems that to build the special windshield would have been more labor intensive and costly than simply supplying a normally mounted, vertical windshield.

[twin6]

[Walt G]

SO now this thread has taken on the conversation of windshield styling/design/build - GREAT , just love it.

John is correct about reflections, I got the same in my 1927 RR Phantom I Trouville town car when I owned it . Even worse if it's a woody station wagon built pre war. I had a 41 Packard 120 station wagon for nearly 20 years and it was the "reflection champion" of any car I ever owned.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Walt G
typo (see edit history)

[twin6]

[LCK81403]

John, I love this photo.  It surely demonstrates the problem.

 

[1937hd45]

This may be the gathering point for the Thank You drive by for Walt starting this thread. Bob 

[LCK81403]

Hmmm.  So how did the engineers arrive at their solution of the peculiar windshield in a closed car?  None of the open cars, touring / roadster models have the peculiar windshield.  Although the two-piece windshield of this 1924 Locomobile 48 Limo suggests it has parentage in the split windshields of the open cars, such as the '24 Buick touring.

[1937hd45]

Has anyone ever put on a Brass Car Coupe tour in the Fall early Spring? 

[John_Mereness]

Edited August 26, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Osage tribal family with chauffeur. 1932

This family includes Frank Pettus, standing, and in the back seat, Cornelia Pettus and Clara Wilson

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Think that may be an AA Truck chassis under the Coupe body. A close up of the wheels would be nice. Bob 

[twin6]

[John_Mereness]

The White House Historical AssociationLike Page

April 30 at 11:02 AM · 

President Calvin Coolidge rides in a convertible automobile escorted by a mounted honor guard and cavalry escort that adds to the pageantry of his Inaugural Parade, March 4, 1925.

Library of Congress

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

We know that if you had an old used large open touring car in Colorado, you could always sell it to the Glen Cove resort on the Pikes Peak toll road for use as a sightseeing tour car.  Note the Public Utilities Commission PUC numbers on the splash aprons.   Climbing up and down the mountain wore out a good many of those.  The Pierce-Arrows were sold off to the Rio Grande Southern Railroad to build their Galloping Goose railbuses after their Pikes Peak days. 

 

I like these photos when you not only know the date on which they were taken but even the time of day!

[twin6]

A couple more from Glen Cove, a group heading back down on what must have been a cool day, and a view of the larger area where the water tank was located.