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I finally fixed my AC

Bill Stoneberg

By Bill Stoneberg
in Buick - General

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g-g-g0 10,000+ Points

g-g-g0

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Bill Stoneberg said:

Probably not the way the auto shop would do it but they wanted 2 grand to replace the compressor an lines.

I had this stuff in my garage.

 

 

61772860_10216442454993006_7305816520993538048_n.jpg

 

 

Love it! So creative!!!!

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60FlatTop 25,000+ Points

60FlatTop

Posted
Posted (edited)

At least you didn't have to crawl under the dash.

 

Oh, oh, oh..... So the psychiatrist asked "How do you handle rejection." I proudly took him to the parking lot and showed him this. "You didn't mean heat rejection?"

"Follow me. You aren't going to like this."

 

Edited by 60FlatTop (see edit history)
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JohnD1956 25,000+ Points

JohnD1956

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, MrEarl said:

Speaking of.... ever seen a complete boxed 1979 Buick air conditioning unit on its way for install? Now you have

 

A5A01A87-9883-4C09-AFF3-3FBBC8D3A1AB.jpeg

 

What the H??  Was all of that really needed?  The AC in my beat up 78 wagon still worked when I got it and when I sold it even more beat up!  

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MrEarl 25,000+ Points

MrEarl

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55 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

 

What the H??  Was all of that really needed?  The AC in my beat up 78 wagon still worked when I got it and when I sold it even more beat up!  

 

Long and costly story. Basically debris and contamination issues. But a working AC was one of Ritas “if you want me to go with you “ requirements. Fixin the leaking valve cover, which isn’t easy on a 403, was the other. And that, I pray, is done. 

I need to update my “Towing ‘79 Buick Style” thread I guess. 

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avgwarhawk 25,000+ Points

avgwarhawk

Posted
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5 minutes ago, MrEarl said:

 

Long and costly story. Basically debris and contamination issues. But a working AC was one of Ritas “if you want me to go with you “ requirements. Fixin the leaking valve cover, which isn’t easy on a 403, was the other. And that, I pray, is done. 

I need to update my “Towing ‘79 Buick Style” thread I guess. 

 

Good idea.   One compressor that destroys itself internally spews debris from orifice tube to condenser.  I have cleaned out systems after such failures.  Most times the debris is removed and the new compressor works fine.  There there is the time were the new compressor is eaten alive right in the very bay it is sitting for A/C repair.   The entirely new system will spit ice cubes from the vents. 

 

    

 

 

 

    

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MrEarl 25,000+ Points

MrEarl

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7 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said:

There there is the time were the new compressor is eaten alive right in the very bay it is sitting for A/C repair. 

 

That was me. But my exact words to the small AC shop when I first took it in "Do whatever it takes to get it right, if it needs a new condenser or anything else, do it" The initial bill of $700 included changing from R12 to 134, a new compressor and receiver/drier, NO condenser. His response to why, was that they checked for leaks and it wasn't leaking. I knew right then I was dealing with a parts swapper. Didn't make it around the block before the new compressor seized. He ordered a new compressor, called himself flushing the lines and installed. That compressor made it around the block before it seized. Turns out his idea of flushing the lines was blowing them out with most likely water and debri laden compressed air.  All the time this was not only costing bucks but valuable time of which was growing shorter. Decided to cut my losses, ordered a complete system from Rock Auto, Summit and other online stores and am having it all installed by hopefully a much more competent shop. We will see.

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NTX5467 25,000+ Points

NTX5467

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After the "flush liquid" supply both dried-up and cost over $50.00/gallon, there was no real alternative flush liquid other than water, probably with some alcohol in it, to use.  GM's official stance, in the case of debris in the system, was to install a particular in-line filter (available with and without orifice tube), and then replace the filters until they didn't stop up again.  One style looked more "pancake", as the other one looked like a metal in-line fuel filter.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

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C Carl 10,000+ Points

C Carl

Posted
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Hey man ! If yer gonna drive 'em with that creative mod, ya oughtta install the unit on the DRIVER'S side rear window. The way these are,  they create a dangerous blind spot. Drivers side visibility can be corrected with a larger towing mirror.    -    CC 

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avgwarhawk 25,000+ Points

avgwarhawk

Posted
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2 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

We called them the "pancake" or "sausage" style filters.  I think part of the difference would be the size of tubing that goes in each end of the filter. It has been a long time since I used one.

 

 

Orifice tube is the filter. 

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avgwarhawk 25,000+ Points

avgwarhawk

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9 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

After the "flush liquid" supply both dried-up and cost over $50.00/gallon, there was no real alternative flush liquid other than water, probably with some alcohol in it, to use.  GM's official stance, in the case of debris in the system, was to install a particular in-line filter (available with and without orifice tube), and then replace the filters until they didn't stop up again.  One style looked more "pancake", as the other one looked like a metal in-line fuel filter.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

 

 

AC flush solvent is available.   There are machines specifically made for flushing as well.   I recall orifice tube kits that could be installed for filtering.    If the compressor imploded internally I would replace th condenser.  Not very expensive.  I would flush the evaporator because it is buried deep in the firewall, small and easily flushed.     

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NTX5467 25,000+ Points

NTX5467

Posted
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On 6/5/2019 at 9:22 AM, avgwarhawk said:

 

 

AC flush solvent is available.   There are machines specifically made for flushing as well.   I recall orifice tube kits that could be installed for filtering.    If the compressor imploded internally I would replace th condenser.  Not very expensive.  I would flush the evaporator because it is buried deep in the firewall, small and easily flushed.     

 

The availability of the old R-12 flush fluid dried-up locally.  Only place I could get it was the local NAPA store.  They stopped stocking it due to availability issues.  That was 30+ years ago, so things might have changed since then?

 

The orifice tube assy does have a screen in it, but the inline filters mentioned have a much larger filter area internally.  Can be had either with or without an integral orifice tube.

 

On the R-4, the current ones (which became available in the '90s, are upsized from the orig R-4 compressors.  Probably more displacement to deal with R-134a?  Have all of the same mounting places as the earlier, smaller diameter units.

 

Make SURE that all of the pressure switches are calibrated for R-134a gas, rather than otherwise!  

 

Seems that changing the receiver/drier has become a maintenance item?  We used to just evac the system and refill it, but now it seems they have an alleged life of about 6 years?

 

The flush machines, as a friend who worked at 4 Seasons (back then) said that in the "cleaning mode", they put liquid Freon through the system to get all of the old oil/debris out of the system.  Then the machine "cleans" that gas, puts new oil with it, and then that recycled gas is put back into your system.  Additional gas is added to complete the charge.  EACH flush machine is SPECIFIC to the gas it has on-board.  Putting R-12 into a R-134a flush machine means that the whole machine is "contaminated", must be cleaned, and a fresh cannister of R-134a installed.  So, at this point in time, finding a shop with a functional R-12 recycling machine might be difficult.  One reason that converted systems are supposed to have the different colored fitting on them, from what an R-12 system had.

 

Hope that R-134a stays around in the aftermarket for several more decades.  The price of the 1234yf gas is "by the ounce", rather than "by the pound".  Makes the recycling machine use much more mandatory, due to the price of the gas itself.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

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avgwarhawk 25,000+ Points

avgwarhawk

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

 

The availability of the old R-12 flush fluid dried-up locally.  Only place I could get it was the local NAPA store.  They stopped stocking it due to availability issues.  That was 30+ years ago, so things might have changed since then?

 

The orifice tube assy does have a screen in it, but the inline filters mentioned have a much larger filter area internally.  Can be had either with or without an integral orifice tube.

 

On the R-4, the current ones (which became available in the '90s, are upsized from the orig R-4 compressors.  Probably more displacement to deal with R-134a?  Have all of the same mounting places as the earlier, smaller diameter units.

 

Make SURE that all of the pressure switches are calibrated for R-134a gas, rather than otherwise!  

 

Seems that changing the receiver/drier has become a maintenance item?  We used to just evac the system and refill it, but now it seems they have an alleged life of about 6 years?

 

The flush machines, as a friend who worked at 4 Seasons (back then) said that in the "cleaning mode", they put liquid Freon through the system to get all of the old oil/debris out of the system.  Then the machine "cleans" that gas, puts new oil with it, and then that recycled gas is put back into your system.  Additional gas is added to complete the charge.  EACH flush machine is SPECIFIC to the gas it has on-board.  Putting R-12 into a R-134a flush machine means that the whole machine is "contaminated", must be cleaned, and a fresh cannister of R-134a installed.  So, at this point in time, finding a shop with a functional R-12 recycling machine might be difficult.  One reason that converted systems are supposed to have the different colored fitting on them, from what an R-12 system had.

 

Hope that R-134a stays around in the aftermarket for several more decades.  The price of the 1234yf gas is "by the ounce", rather than "by the pound".  Makes the recycling machine use much more mandatory, due to the price of the gas itself.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

 

 

When I was working for Goodyear in the 80s-90s,  R12 was pulled from the shelves as a result of ozone issues.   R134 slowly introduced.   R12 became a black market item.   The R4 did not have a sump for refrigerant oils from my recollection.  As I recall, it was and still is imperative the refrigerant oil circulated in the R4 system.  R4 being smaller and weighed less than the A6 internally no place for oil to sit.    I'm an A6 fan.  Very durable compressor.  Has a oil sump. 

 

I never replaced a receiver dryer unless I had to open the system.  Was not a maintenance item for me.  I have had receiver dryers work 6 plus years.  In fact, my 2010 KIA of 9 years has not had to have the A/C worked on for any reason. 89k miles.  Works great.        

Edited by avgwarhawk (see edit history)
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Frank DuVal 25,000+ Points

Frank DuVal

Posted
Posted

Since Earl is using R134a, the flush would be for R134a, right? Why would it need an R12 flush? The R134a flush will not remove mineral oil????  Never had an issue myself with on the shelf flush solvent.

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avgwarhawk 25,000+ Points

avgwarhawk

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Frank DuVal said:

Since Earl is using R134a, the flush would be for R134a, right? Why would it need an R12 flush? The R134a flush will not remove mineral oil????  Never had an issue myself with on the shelf flush solvent.

 

I do not know of any solvent for flushing specific to either R134 or R12.  The solvents found today work for both.  

Edited by avgwarhawk (see edit history)
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NTX5467 25,000+ Points

NTX5467

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I'll agree that we used to never replace, or consider replacing, a receiver/drier because of age.  Metal contamination, but not age.  But the newer ones and replacements for the earlier units are much smaller in size than the older ones.  Which might be where the "maintenance item" orientation came in, due to their smaller dessicant bags?  There's somebody that can rebuild the older driers, rather than use the smaller replacements.

 

Many of the R-134a OEM condensers are physically bigger than the radiators behind them.  That, plus air flow through the condenser, is what makes them chunk ice cubes out the vents.

 

There is an aluminum version of the A-6, which Lexus uses.  A direct bolt-in replacement.  Just has a funny cover over the pulley.  Denso makes it, I believe?

 

NTX5467

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MrEarl 25,000+ Points

MrEarl

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Happy to report the unit has been installed along with a new fan clutch  (which was likely part of the original problem) and heater core and it is operating to the capacity of frosty balls, so all is well. Flushed the radiator today and temperatures checked with a gun and all seems fine but a bit on the high side which can be expected with a 403. Had hoped to install coolant temperature, oil pressure, tranny temperature  and volt gauges but running out of time so will keep the temperature gun handy and check often. 

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