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1911 - 1927 Locomobile 48 & 38 Gathering Place


alsfarms

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On 11/15/2022 at 2:30 PM, Ittenbacher Frank said:

Dear George, thanks for your input. You are right, producing one set only, which is specially made for the Loco, is for sure out of question. Producing ten sets, hoping to find the other 9 owners who like to take the challenging effort of changing the ratio is also not very likely. Therefore I asked for the idea to find an existing gear set which can be modified. I am sure this is available somewhere, perhaps on a scrapyard, but how to find it? Spiral bevel gears are the target, as you see on your 3 sketches and above photos. These photos are not from my car but from another Loco, still using the original gears.

I believe that machining an existing set could be possible because the Loco pinion gear is not one piece with the pinion shaft (input shaft), but the gear is bolted to the shaft, using a key on a cylindrical (not conical) seat. Adjustment is made with two nuts, one before and one after the gear. Comparing to later one-piece-designs, this could be easier in the way that you don't need to consider the shaft, just use the original one, as well as the bearings.

The large bevel gear must be machined according to the Locomobile's differential case. Also this should be possible, either by removing material or using a spacer. But is it worth the effort?

I was only asking because of curiosity. I am not sure if such a change would make much sense in that hilly region where I live. I like to consider: Comparing to contemporary cars, the Loco was already a fast car with 4 wide-spread gears. Even today you can cope with normal traffic on country roads with the 3.8-ratio, and use the highway occasionally. It is really cool to have the power to drive in high gear nearly everywhere. With lower ratios this hill climbing capacity is reduced.

One other question: There is an advertisement that the Pershing-Locomobile was tested at 85 mph. Does anybody know which ratio they used for this car and application?

p31 Chicago_Tribune_Tue__Jun_3__1919_-e1543805830889-717x1024.jpg

Best reference I found so far.C6A19E64-D40C-4772-ADC2-27F2D25D551F.jpeg.c8a84dd1951ebb2e84387b0305734544.jpeg

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8 hours ago, George K said:

Best reference I found so far.C6A19E64-D40C-4772-ADC2-27F2D25D551F.jpeg.c8a84dd1951ebb2e84387b0305734544.jpeg

Dear George that is a very good summary of General Pershings Locomobile‘s specifications. I am curious about the rear axle ratio: would the 2.94 which is mentioned as the fastest ratio in the spare parts books be sufficient to reach the speed of 85mph?

Unfortunately I will not be home with access to my data for more than a week, can only guess now, would you like to calculate? I remember the 1916 M6 reached it’s 82HP at 1800 Rpm. The 1919 engine should have the highest horsepower output at approximately 2000 Rpm, maybe 2200 can be reached?

I think I saw photos showing the tires size 35x5.

So, would this theoretically allow to reach 85mph?

Edited by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)
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Ed, The smaller huge offering by Locomobile! The 38 is really nothing to take a back seat to any make but maybe it's big brother the 48.

REO M, with the low first gear in the Locomobile 4 speed transmission and the huge amount of generated torque, I hope they had things well under control at 85 MPH in a heavy automobile, not the best quality roads and delightful 2 wheel brakes.  Thanks for the calculation.

Al

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23 minutes ago, thlee said:

it's my 1913 Model 38.  I can attest to 55mph easily with more available. it does not accelerate quickly, but 65bhp moves it along nicely

That is a wonderful car. There is a 1913 Locomobile sales book on Ebay. I nicked these from it. 6F4ACFF7-AB9D-4CC3-BF86-A1483B06AC64.jpeg.5ad5798823790d0d4120d3e93d101818.jpegEE56D4E6-41A1-4C34-A262-821CD2CBF52D.jpeg.f40767dd1df69ba168e2bbc4ef31897a.jpeg

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Tom’s car is a great machine. I should have used the term smaller series, or actually looked up the correct nomenclature for the model. That’s my bad. Sorry about that. It’s certainly better than any early car I have personally owned. Best of all the car “has the look”. 65hp in 1913 was and still is a “Big boy toy”. I would own it without any hesitation. 
 

Also, it’s a five passenger, not a seven……..it has great eyeball. I expect the comment of “slower acceleration “ is because it’s built as heavy as a battleship. Craftsmanship certainly was as good as anything offered at the time.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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19 hours ago, edinmass said:

Tom’s car is a great machine. I should have used the term smaller series, or actually looked up the correct nomenclature for the model. That’s my bad. Sorry about that. It’s certainly better than any early car I have personally owned. Best of all the car “has the look”. 65hp in 1913 was and still is a “Big boy toy”. I would own it without any hesitation. 
 

Also, it’s a five passenger, not a seven……..it has great eyeball. I expect the comment of “slower acceleration “ is because it’s built as heavy as a battleship. Craftsmanship certainly was as good as anything offered at the time.

Heavy as a battleship for sure. i think that it’s also geared for smooth riding rather than quick acceleration. But it’s relative for sure.  And it doesn’t really care about hills — it maintains a nice constant speed up the steepest of them. Lot of torque in those 6 cylinders.

 

and yes — the 5-passenger body is much sportier than the longer wheelbase cars.

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We are aware of the huge group of Locomobile 48 and likely some 38 parts have been relocated. (Pictures and information also presented on this forum).  Additional information is always welcome on that group of parts and potential projects.  Has anyone heard if Garret Mcfann has entrusted the Pershing Limousine, spoken on in early pages of this forum, to a new caretaker?  Updates are welcome and we welcome new blood here on this forum for those who are enthralled with Locomobile.

Al

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Does anyone know what happened to the mostly complete running 48 that was for sale over in Holland a few years ago? I wonder if it has been "improved" or simply enjoyed as it was?  Did it stay in Holland or move further inland on the continent?  Any information is appreciated.

Al

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How many of you Locomobile Model 48 and 38 owners still have the original "Jack" with your automobile?  As the snowy season on us, this is a good winter project to research what the correct Jack would be. From my original 19000 parts book, I do know what the factory part number is, but have no idea really what the jack is and no picture or schematic diagram was shown.  I do know that Duff made a Locomobile script Jack and I assume for use with the Models 38 and 48 but maybe other brands were used by Locomobile also.  Could I encourage you to pull out your jack, if it appears to fit into the wooden holding fixture properly and share several good pictures with us here. I would like to locate and purchase the correct make and number model of jack for the Locomobile Demarest Limousine.  Now for my dream, if I could get a pattern from an original Locomobile script Jack, I would get some duplicate Locomobile script castings completed of that side cover piece and make available to others who also would like one to change a "no-name" jack to a Locomobile script Jack.

Al

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36 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

How many of you Locomobile Model 48 and 38 owners still have the original "Jack" with your automobile?  As the snowy season on us, this is a good winter project to research what the correct Jack would be. From my original 19000 parts book, I do know what the factory part number is, but have no idea really what the jack is and no picture or schematic diagram was shown.  I do know that Duff made a Locomobile script Jack and I assume for use with the Models 38 and 48 but maybe other brands were used by Locomobile also.  Could I encourage you to pull out your jack, if it appears to fit into the wooden holding fixture properly and share several good pictures with us here. I would like to locate and purchase the correct make and number model of jack for the Locomobile Demarest Limousine.  Now for my dream, if I could get a pattern from an original Locomobile script Jack, I would get some duplicate Locomobile script castings completed of that side cover piece and make available to others who also would like one to change a "no-name" jack to a Locomobile script Jack.

Al

Yes you do know what it looks like thanks to JCrow.933D4E35-DE00-47B0-97C9-0EED2F25CC9E.jpeg.4165d7a362920fe82dd1258f2f99e2b1.jpeg

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Good Morning George and others reading here.  The above picture provided by J Crow does surely give us a snapshot of what the Locomobile jack should look like and be, but not so great for good detail.  My request for a close up picture of a correct jack still stands and would really be appreciated.  Next, I know that Duff did do Locomobile Script Jacks but the jack shown above does not appear to me to be a Duff jack.  This picture does mostly confirm what I thought, more that one jack was likely used by Locomobile.  My 19000 series parts book calls for two different jacks, the jack for Locomobiles with high pressure tires is pn 67436, the jack for use on the Locomobiles with balloon tires is pn 72387.  Now if someone can translate these two Locomobile part numbers into picture form of the respective jacks, that would be most impressive.

Al

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Karl K is the sensei of all things known as automotive jacks. He has a huge inventory, and is a scholar on correct applications. I have purchased a half dozen jacks from him in the last five years……..including the correct handles. He is on here occasionally. PM me if you want his number or email. 

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On 12/17/2022 at 5:34 PM, alsfarms said:

Good Morning George and others reading here.  The above picture provided by J Crow does surely give us a snapshot of what the Locomobile jack should look like and be, but not so great for good detail.  My request for a close up picture of a correct jack still stands and would really be appreciated.  Next, I know that Duff did do Locomobile Script Jacks but the jack shown above does not appear to me to be a Duff jack.  This picture does mostly confirm what I thought, more that one jack was likely used by Locomobile.  My 19000 series parts book calls for two different jacks, the jack for Locomobiles with high pressure tires is pn 67436, the jack for use on the Locomobiles with balloon tires is pn 72387.  Now if someone can translate these two Locomobile part numbers into picture form of the respective jacks, that would be most impressive.

Al

Al, the older Loco parts lists show:

1915: Barrett geared jack No 300 (Loco part number 2661)

in 1917 they just say: Jack (Loco part number 8982)

M5 R5 spare parts chassis page 128 (2).jpg

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This is the Barrett jack with a repo handle that I have for my 1920 Model 48. The jack is 12" tall at the lowest point. It fits under the front axle and the rear axle lifting pad. I am not sure if it is exactly the same as the jack originally supplied with the car. Comments are welcome. Happy Holidays! Ben

PC200001.JPG

PC200004.JPG

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Interesting fact……….make sure the jack you carry fits under the car WITH A FLAT TIRE! Want to guess how I learned this lesson? Flat tire, had a jack and tools, and no way to get the jack under the car because it only fit with all the tires inflated. 
 

I is a college graduate.

 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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oh man!!!!! We all probably have a few stories of what we have learned the hard way in similar fashion to this discussion on jacks...right wrong...to tall ...to short... or no lug wrench if you can get the automobile jacked off the ground with a flat tire!  Yes, I thought I was sure everything was in place should such an event take place...I was wrong!  Assumptions sometime mean less that NOTHING!  I am curious what ran through Ed's mind when his jack didn't fit! 🙂

Al

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1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

How do you suppose they dated this to 1926?

 

Picture 1 of 11

Not sure. Usually a print date they haven’t shown. It’s definitely late Durant Locomobile Company of America. The seller would verify. I haven’t seen much literature on these late cars. That stylized L is an indicator.

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On 12/20/2022 at 5:14 PM, edinmass said:


 

Interesting fact……….make sure the jack you carry fits under the car WITH A FLAT TIRE! Want to guess how I learned this lesson? Flat tire, had a jack and tools, and no way to get the jack under the car because it only fit with all the tires inflated. 
 

I is a college graduate.

 

I learned that the Hard Way, too, 90 miles from home, but on the 1934 Pierce Silver Arrow--rear wheel flat with semi-enclosed fender.  I now carry a bottle jack for under the frame to lift the body (and thus, fender) plus a scissors jack to lift the axle--and two 12"-square pieces of plywood to place under the jacks on soft ground often found on road shoulders.

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On 12/22/2022 at 2:59 AM, George K said:

Not sure. Usually a print date they haven’t shown. It’s definitely late Durant Locomobile Company of America. The seller would verify. I haven’t seen much literature on these late cars. That stylized L is an indicator.

I have this sales book as an old paper copy, on the 18 pages there is no year or print date mentioned, but someone wrote "1924" with a pencil onto the first page.

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