1911 - 1927 Locomobile 48 & 38 Gathering Place

[alsfarms]

Now that we are past the Christmas and New Years holidays, maybe we can focus again on the antique automobiles that have captivated our attention.  Not long ago the likely correct Jack was discussed on this forum. Several thoughts and pictures have been shared here on this subject. I have learned a lot about these early mechanical geared jacks. I was not sure why these early auto jacks had an adjustable lifting lug on the side. I now know that when a car has a flat tire the lifting lug will allow us to pick up the front or rear axle from a lower position with the side lifting lug. I will attach a few pictures of a solid, working but surface rusted Barrett Duff #8 jack that meets the original specifications for the jack.  This may or may not be the original type issued with the Locomobile 48 when sold new. This one was purchased off our favorite eBay auctions site.

Al

One

[alsfarms]

Two

[alsfarms]

Three

[alsfarms]

Four

[alsfarms]

Five

I notice that this jack has three Pat'n dates; February 13, 1906, April 14, 1914 and May 4, 1920.  This jack should be accurate and acceptable to place in the 1925 Demarest Limousine.

Al

[alsfarms]

This is a chat room for all things Locomobile 38 and 48. I digress now for one posting.  I was scouring EBAY for wire wheel parts when I happened across this west coast 1916 Simplex-Crane Model 5 for sale.  This is automobile is certainly in league with Locomobile so I thought I would share this picture here.  If you are curious to see more pictures, price and information, go to eBay.

Al

Edited January 4, 2023 by alsfarms
Spelling (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:25 AM, alsfarms said:

This is a chat room for all things Locomobile 38 and 48. I digress now for one posting.  I was scouring EBAY for wire wheel parts when I happened across this west coast 1916 Simplex-Crane Model 5 for sale.  This is automobile is certainly in league with Locomobile so I thought I would share this picture here.  If you are curious to see more pictures, price and information, go to eBay.

Al

Al, what a stunning car.  I saw one this fall at the Seal Cove Museum.  The dash of this car has some similar visual cues to a Loco 48.  

[alsfarms]

I was checking out current postings on Keith Sparks Antique automobile Facebook page and ran across an ad placed for several automobiles for sale in Tyler Texas by Alex Mccommas.  He does have some interesting cars and a few parts for sale including this Locomobile. This Locomobile must be a 1925 as it has front brakes.  It looks like a solid well restored Locomobile.  The listed phone number is: 903-520-7356.  If you have an interest get in touch directly with Alex.

Al

Edited January 12, 2023 by alsfarms
Spelling (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Here is a picture of a teens Locomobile 48 on wire wheels. I am personally not familiar with the type wire wheels shown. I know these are not Buffalo but must be Rudge? Could someone reading here please confirm that the shown wire wheels are Rudge and if possible post a picture of the hub as a comparison to Buffalo? Here is the picture 

Al

[alsfarms]

Does anyone reading here have an SVG file for a Locomobile radiator script? The attached picture is a sample of the script I am looking for.

Al

Edited February 3, 2023 by alsfarms
Clarity (see edit history)

[AHa]

I have a friend here with a water jet cutter who could cut that out from the picture. He loads the picture into His computer, adds the length and height and sends that info to the cutter and out comes the script. I use 36" door kick plates to have them cut out of. The originals had threaded rods soldered to the backs that could go through the radiator core and be nutted on the back but I have seen some with holes drilled and wire holding them to the radiator.

[alsfarms]

Does anyone know where this 1917 Locomobile 38 now resides? I believe it was sold in the east area of the US several years ago.

Al

[alsfarms]

I am looking at a Simplex #39 jack and also a Badger #8 jack as a possible addition to the current Locomobile projects. Pictures will be forth coming.

Al

[alsfarms]

Who has a "low number" 1911 Locomobile Model M 48? I am curious how the actual rear axle evolved over time?

Al

[Bob McAnlis]

The 1911 M1 48 cars first came out with the split rear end, similar to, maybe same ?? as the Model 30s.    The 1912 M2 48 cars had the rear cover rear end, same as discussed above on the later cars.  Both came with many different ratios.  Photos attached.   My car seems to have gone back to the factory in its early life and came to me with jugs marked +020 bore diameter and the M2 rear end.   In its early rebuilt life, it became a service vehicle at a cranberry farm according to verbal accounts.   Locomobile advertised doing second purpose rebuilds at the factory or associated with the factory.  Fire trucks and such...

[Ittenbacher Frank]

On 2/19/2023 at 4:38 PM, Bob McAnlis said:

The 1911 M1 48 cars first came out with the split rear end, similar to, maybe same ?? as the Model 30s.    The 1912 M2 48 cars had the rear cover rear end, same as discussed above on the later cars.  Both came with many different ratios.  Photos attached.   My car seems to have gone back to the factory in its early life and came to me with jugs marked +020 bore diameter and the M2 rear end.   In its early rebuilt life, it became a service vehicle at a cranberry farm according to verbal accounts.   Locomobile advertised doing second purpose rebuilds at the factory or associated with the factory.  Fire trucks and such...

Amazing info, Bob.  Optional ratios of 2,47, hard to believe. Fast like a rocket...

May I ask: What list number and print year is that parts list? What tire sized are specified?

Thanks in advance...

Edited February 20, 2023 by Ittenbacher Frank (see edit history)

[Bob McAnlis]

5 hours ago, Ittenbacher Frank said:

Amazing info, Bob.  Optional ratios of 2,47, hard to believe. Fast like a rocket...

May I ask: What list number and print year is that parts list? What tire sized are specified?

Thanks in advance...

Frank.  This book is #70.  Rear Tire sizes for all the years covered was 36x4.5.    
 

thanks

Bob

 

[Bob McAnlis]

Frank.  The print year was 1917. By the way the  chart columns to the right of the ratio picture are 1911  1912. 1913. And 1914. 
bob

[alsfarms]

Hello Steve,

With winter on you in the North east, you may have more time available for work in the shop.  Do you have any new information to share regarding the Locomobile 48 parts trove?

Al

Edited March 4, 2023 by alsfarms
spelling (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Gentlemen,    I'm planning on giving this a thorough look over at the Mark Smith auction.  I'm intrigued by the body and the late chassis which is more in my era.   Any thoughts?

 

https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1925-locomobile-model-48-sedan

 

 

 

 

 

[edinmass]

 

 

Yes.......I can see about 400 hours just to get it going down the road.......figure what ever you pay and 80K on top to drive. 

 

PS-I'm busy for the next ten years.

 

 

[alsancle]

23 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Yes.......I can see about 400 hours just to get it going down the road.......figure what ever you pay and 80K on top to drive. 

 

PS-I'm busy for the next ten years.

 

 

 

 It is going straight to you so make room.

[George K]

21 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Gentlemen,    I'm planning on giving this a thorough look over at the Mark Smith auction.  I'm intrigued by the body and the late chassis which is more in my era.   Any thoughts?

 

https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1925-locomobile-model-48-sedan

 

 

 

 

 

First thought is you should call Gooding and explain to them that their experts don’t know the difference between an L head and T head engines. They also can’t calculate cubic inch displacement. 

[alsancle]

Just now, George K said:

First thought is you should call Gooding and explain to them that their experts don’t know the difference between an L head and T head engines. They also can’t calculate cubic inch displacement. 

George, I just ignored the description.

[George K]

Well worth ignoring. Make sure it turns over by hand. The rest is just maintenance. It has the wrong horn mount. Not a fan of Durant period Locomobiles. That said it has all the latest features. If you can sit comfortably behind the steering wheel I’m sure it would be a good driver. I do like the overall look. You can buy black tire paint so you could be seen in public without the whitewalls.

[edinmass]

 

Cars that look the way the 25 Loco does and don't drive always scare me. Usually it's a bad rod/engine or cracked block that has kept it off the road. Same as the lesson I got on the 34 Buick with Phil..........Sleeping in a Florida garage for 60 years. Just took 250 hours to get it to turn over. I'm getting too old for this shxt. 

[alsfarms]

We have discussed this Locomobile and some of its body anomalies, in the past.  I have not been able to invest the time to research the Gooding auction write up on this particular Locomobile. From comments above, I gather that this Locmobile has not been run for some time due to some unknown issue.  Or do I mistake, and it has just been put to been put to bed, in the past, and has not been brought out of hibernation adequately. In summary, I like this late designed Locomobile for what it is, but am not in favor of the choice in windshield design and "A" pillar style.  I also think this Locomobile would look much nicer with large drum headlamps and not these lamps from a bit earlier Locomobile. What is very interesting to me is the low roof line.  If you are a very tall fellow, behind the wheel, you may rub your head on the roof and loose what hair you may have left! The fenders are very much "modernized" looking more similar to a 1928 or 29 Cadillac and that is OK as this Locomobile is one of the last gasps for the Model 48.  The single rear spare hints that this unit must have 700 x 21 balloon tires on all four corners. Does anyone know, is the color currently on the car the original or a later redo? If it is a redo, I would likely opt to change color to a dark red, blue or green over black and no whitewalls but wheels a brighter accent shade of the body color. All in all, this unit could represent a driver Locomobile, for much less money than trying to restore one currently. (I speak from experience on that subject!)

Al

Edited March 7, 2023 by alsfarms
clarity (see edit history)

[edinmass]

There is nothing more expensive than a cheap antique car……….been there, done that.

[Sloth]

Hello Al and Ed,

I experienced both, cheap cars and an expensive cars. Rather expensive 1910 Oakland,  this one quickly becomes an expensive restoration.  But I concur with Ed, -cheap and correct- restoration does not exist (as far as I know😉). I am lucky, Ann still likes the Oakland very much 😍. Me? A bit less than it used to be....

Regards,

Harm

Edited March 7, 2023 by Sloth (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Hello Harm, Thanks for your observation on this subject. In reality, all of this antique automobile hobby really become a certain "labor of love". Most assuredly, anything good and worth having is worth the effort (work) or we really don't appreciate it. Money is always an issue but sometimes we simply must look past it or our labor or we might as well deliver all of our antiques to the junk yard and sell them for scrap. 🙂

Al 

[Ittenbacher Frank]

Dear Locomobile Specialists, I am wondering what mileage my Locomobiles might have accumulated since new. I remember some of you stated that many of these cars were not driven much or laid off early. Other cars are reported to have done something like 300.000 miles. Now I heard one Loco is very worn out, even the floor board is worn considerably where the driver's heel was resting, and that car was not driven any more after the early 50s.

I have looked into many mechanical parts on my two Locos and could not find much wear. But this doesn't confirm a low mileage. Long life of mechanical components is not only a matter of ample size and good material but also of maintenance. 

Both my cars show a similar mileage of 23.000 miles on their Warner Autometer.

On the black Sedan it might be possible. This car has never been apart.

For the green touring car: I assume the counter has been reset to zero when the car was restored in the late 1950s. The next owners used the Loco regularly, but not too extensively. All of them were business-men with more than only this one antique car. Aso the last owner who owned it for 24 years didn't drive much because he had too many other cars. For being treated as an antique car, 23.000 mls in 65 years might be possible.

Today I had the idea to compare the pedal's condition.

1. The 1921 Sedan: The rubbers for Clutch and brake are worn at the edges only, most of the profile is still good. The accelerator pedal has an original thickness of 7mm, the worn area in the middle is app. 6.5mm. The machined grooves are completely intact. The floor board cover is the original Linoleum, a bit of wear can be seen just behind the accelerator pedal.

[Ittenbacher Frank]

2. The model 1917 tourer: The rubbers for Clutch and brake are worn much more and at all corners, but the original profile is still visible in the middle. The accelerator pedal has an original thickness of 6.5 mm, the thinnest area is in the middle at app. 5.3mm. The grooves are gone in this small area.

The floor board is covered with Aluminum, same as the running boards. I assume this has been renewed during restoration. Today it is still in good condition.

Now it is your turn. What is your experience and idea about this matter?

[alsfarms]

Frank, This is interesting for sure. Miles as compared to wear, maintenance and materials used.  How typical is it for the clutch and brake pedal to have a rubber pedal pad?

Al

[AHa]

My experience has been that wear on brake and clutch pedals has as much to do with the personal habit of the driver as anything else. One driver may use the whole foot to press in the pedal while another my use just the corner. Wear is thus indicated. The question is how well was the car maintained? Was the oil kept clean? Changed often? Was the car greased regularly?

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by AHa (see edit history)

[alsancle]

It is quite possible that those cars are low mileage in spite of the wear on the clutch and brake pedals.   With a modern car it would be suspect, but the materials in the teens and twenties were not up to the wear and tear that we are accustomed to.

[Bob McAnlis]

8 hours ago, alsfarms said:

We have discussed this Locomobile and some of its body anomalies, in the past.  I have not been able to invest the time to research the Gooding auction write up on this particular Locomobile. From comments above, I gather that this Locmobile has not been run for some time due to some unknown issue.  Or do I mistake, and it has just been put to been put to bed, in the past, and has not been brought out of hibernation adequately. In summary, I like this late designed Locomobile for what it is, but am not in favor of the choice in windshield design and "A" pillar style.  I also think this Locomobile would look much nicer with large drum headlamps and not these lamps from a bit earlier Locomobile. What is very interesting to me is the low roof line.  If you are a very tall fellow, behind the wheel, you may rub your head on the roof and loose what hair you may have left! The fenders are very much "modernized" looking more similar to a 1928 or 29 Cadillac and that is OK as this Locomobile is one of the last gasps for the Model 48.  The single rear spare hints that this unit must have 700 x 21 balloon tires on all four corners. Does anyone know, is the color currently on the car the original or a later redo? If it is a redo, I would likely opt to change color to a dark red, blue or green over black and no whitewalls but wheels a brighter accent shade of the body color. All in all, this unit could represent a driver Locomobile, for much less money than trying to restore one currently. (I speak from experience on that subject!)

Al

I can tell you that this car was part of the BC Hartline collection and I knew it back about 1970.  I think he had had it many years at that point.  It looked the same then as it does now.  Maybe new tires.  The condition was amazingly original with the tan being a repaint.  But done long before I knew it.      BC had lots of cars and this one was well back in the barn and not one of his regular drivers       He love to show how nicely to doors closed   Click click click.    If I recall there was a hat holder on the ceiling in the back to hold a top hat upside down.    All this from when I was in junior high and getting my first taste of Locomobiles. 

[edinmass]

Where was the BC Hartline collection?

Edited March 8, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

22 hours ago, alsancle said:

Gentlemen,    I'm planning on giving this a thorough look over at the Mark Smith auction.  I'm intrigued by the body and the late chassis which is more in my era.   Any thoughts?

 

https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1925-locomobile-model-48-sedan

 

 

 

 

 

I like it.  Not commonly seen, handsome lines, , has that impressive Loco powerplant.  If I am at a gathering of lots of cars of this era that has a lot of the "usual suspects", I'm probably going to find myself gravitating over to this.  It is just more interesting to me than a lot of other cars.

 

Some good history others have chimed in with.  Of course it is a bad financial decision.....they all are.  having said that, once you have wasted your money, do you like what you got.  Typically for me the answer is yes.  I have been telling my wife for years that these are investment grade decisions.... "money in the bank".  She just laughs and books another vacation.

 

I'm hoping it follows you back from the auction.

 

 

 

 

[Bob McAnlis]

8 hours ago, edinmass said:

Where was the BC Hartline collection?

BC Hartline was in Akron Ohio area.  He had four Locos. A 1911, 1912 that are both with me, a 1917 48 7p touring that was originally owned by the family that had the horse Man of War, and the 1925.    He also had a 12 Pierce 48, a 21 McFarlan, three and a half 1925 or so Cunningham, an X Duesenburg, and J 525 Brunn SJ Convertible Sedan.  A T, and Two Northerns.    I used to ride my bike over there and polish brass….   Of all the cars he had he was most proud of the SJ, but he said that the car with the most balls was the McFarlan.    A four valves per cylinder triple ignition 4.5 x 6 six with Atlas holding the world on his shoulders as the radiator mascot.  The 25 Loco probably left Hartlines in the early 90s

[alsfarms]

Was BC Hartline in the trucking business?

Al