My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

[JV Puleo]

I'm flattered by the advice but I don't think that's a problem. I commuted to California at one point in my life. Now, I'd have to be paid a LOT of money to go there...I'd rather go almost anywhere else in the world.

[edinmass]

11 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

I'm flattered by the advice but I don't think that's a problem. I commuted to California at one point in my life. Now, I'd have to be paid a LOT of money to go there...I'd rather go almost anywhere else in the world.

The new California state motto should be……”please double flush………after all this place IS a sxxt hole.”

 

No offense to my California friends………….who live in million dollar homes that are 800 square feet.

[chistech]

Be careful Ed, you might get flagged by the forum Gestapo!😁 Even if it’s the truth.

[Grimy]

45 minutes ago, edinmass said:

The new California state motto should be……”please double flush………after all this place IS a sxxt hole.”

 

No offense to my California friends………….who live in million dollar homes that are 800 square feet.

Ed, your ass is grass when you visit next month!  Let's see:  summer here by the Bay is almost all 70-80*F, no need for ain't-a-gonna-freeze or household A/C, no high humdidity.

 

BTW, do you need an almost-free bunk while you're working on a Packhard while you're here?  Maker's Mark accepted as coin of the realm.

[George K]

10 hours ago, edinmass said:

The new California state motto should be……”please double flush………after all this place IS a sxxt hole.”

 

No offense to my California friends………….who live in million dollar homes that are 800 square feet.

No matter where you live in California you’re still in the permanent penalty box.

[JV Puleo]

I finally got the chipper to run adequately so I spent the day on that job. After everyone had left for the day I used our photo studio to take some better pictures of the switch.

 

 

The back with the cover on. The cover will need two slots milled in it to accommodate the wires but I won't be able to do that until I lay our the fire wall and the wiring...

 

 

And the inside. I may turn the heads of the knurled nuts down a bit and re-knurl them but they don't touch so that's really not necessary. I also want to mark the batter, coil, ground and magneto connections but I need 1/4" letter stamps in a serif type face. There is no hurry with that though.

 

[weathered1]

Ready for Pebble Beach

[AHa]

Now you just need a car to put this on.

Edited July 25, 2022 by AHa (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

True enough....but a project like this is the sum total of all the pieces and until they are all done it's just a (largely worthless) pile of parts with only one person who has any idea of who they go together. What I didn't say is that the switch is the last piece I needed for the dash. I have all the other instruments...in fact, I probably have two of most of them. I hadn't planned to do this right now but, in the long run, it makes little difference. What I do think is critical (if I'm ever going to finish) is to be doing something all the time. This was a complicated enough project that, if I'd stopped and waited until I "needed" it, I would have forgotten most of what I'd worked out and had to start all over. Now I can put it in the box with the other instruments and forget about it until it's time to make the dash.

 

As it is, the finished product differs significantly from the original drawing. I've now modified the drawing to reflect the changes but my drawings aren't all that easy to understand so I wonder if anyone else would be able to follow them.

[Terry Harper]

1 hour ago, JV Puleo said:

 

 

As it is, the finished product differs significantly from the original drawing. I've now modified the drawing to reflect the changes but my drawings aren't all that easy to understand so I wonder if anyone else would be able to follow them.

Joe,

 

I think you use "drawing shorthand". Mere mortals would struggle. (LOL) But it works for you and that is what counts.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

Joe, your method of restoring/rebuilding the parts before you put come to put the car back together is similar to the way I restored the two MGBV8's I restored. As I took the parts off the original car, I restored or rebuilt them and put them on the shelf, before I removed the next part. It worked for me and made putting the cars back together much quicker and very satisfying. Keep up the good work. I am still really enjoying reading and seeing your superb workmanship on this forum. Mike

[JV Puleo]

Thanks Mike. It's good to know others have arrived at the same conclusions. In my case, I'd really no choice since I don't even have a garage and if I assemble the car in the shop I won't be able to get it out. I'll have to deal with the eventually but there is so much left to do that it isn't an immediate worry. I made enough progress on my non-car related responsibilities today to quite early and start on the pinion adjuster, replacing the piece I had to cut in order to remove.

 

I started by cleaning up the bench which was covered with bits from the switch project and in such a mess that I was wasting too much time looking for things I had just put down.

 

 

Then I mounted the big chuck...not the best idea at the end of the day because I dropped it on my finger but no damage was done. I need to use this chuck because I'm putting a 1-3/4" hole through the piece and that is too large for the small chuck.

 

 

Faced off and I started drilling the hole in the center.

 

 

Hopefully I'll be able to get back to this tomorrow...if not, at least it's started.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[AussieBuick]

I hear you Joe don't know how many screwdrivers , drill bits , hammers I've "put down"  somewhere never to be seen again ! 

[JV Puleo]

I'm still trying to squeeze in a little car work between other jobs...today I worked on the pinion adjuster, starting by drilling it out to 1-3/8".

 

 

The finished size is 1-3/4" but I don't have the necessary drill so from here I bored it to .010 under the finished size.

 

 

Then reamed it and faced off the end that was in the chuck.

 

[JV Puleo]

I was able to do a little more on the pinion mount/adjuster today, starting by mounting it on a mandrel and turning it down to 3.140. This is the largest dimension, the flat disc that pushes on the bearing. It's about .010 smaller than the OD of the bearing so that it moves freely in the end of the torque tube.

 

 

Then I turned all but the last 1/2" to 3" – the thread size – and turned a .100 relief on the end. The relief is quite a bit longer than the original...I'll trim this to size when I'm certain of all the dimensions.

 

 

Next I have to put in the relief at the front of the thread and thread it 3"-16.

[JV Puleo]

I was finally able to put in a full day...which isn't usually 8 hours in any case. I started by turning the relief at the other end of the threaded portion.

 

 

I clamped the torque tube to the mill table so it would be there to test the adjuster.

 

 

And set up the lathe for threading.

 

 

I used a depth of thread a little less than the test piece I'd made. This is largely guess work though. The idea behind threading o a mandrel is that you can take the piece out of the lathe, try it in the hole, and return it to the lathe. You cannon do that if the work piece is in a chuck or a collet.

 

 

It seemed to come out right on the first try though.

 

 

 

The thread is still a tiny bit looser than I'd like but I put the piece in and tightened up the lock bolt...which did lock it in place. In thinking about it, it came to me that the critical dimension is the difference between the OD of the bearing and the ID of the torque tube. If the thread were too big, it would keep the tube from locking the bearing in place. Ideally, both should lock up but it may be that locking the thread is less important.

 

 

Then back in the lathe to trim off the excess length.

 

 

The overall length is 3.25".

 

 

I still have some questions about how this worked. Original ID was 2" while the pinion shaft is 1-3/8". There were no bushings in the original piece to center the shaft so it relied entirely on the fit between the bearing and the shaft to keep it straight. I can't help but think that wasn't optimal so I made my piece with a 1-3/4" ID, partly because I don't have a 2" mandrel) and also so that I can press in bushings. I can't see how that would hurt anything and they will help keep the pinion shaft absolutely straight though I may hone the bushings out a tiny bit loose.

 

I still have to drill holes for the tommy bar and in the face of the adjuster for the spanner I made to insert it.

[mikewest]

Joe , as ALWAYS the work looks great! I love the brass switch!! Mike 

[JV Puleo]

I had a bad case of the slows today, seemingly unable to focus on anything. I'm still trying to decide what the best way to finish this piece is and think I've come up with a plan but I'll have to order a few things to complete it. I did get a little done, starting with this clamp. It goes on the inside end of the pinion shaft. The threads were burred slightly from the thrust bearing on that end rotating against them. This is an important adjustment and with the threads burred it was difficult to put it on and impossible to get a fine adjustment. I fized it by lapping the threads which took a little time because the shaft was heat treated.

 

 

Then I set up the rotary table to put in the circle of holes. There are 10 holes...so 36 degrees apart. I'm going to put in 1/4" holes instead of the 5/16 the original had. I made several math errors in the course of this this simple setup so I'll put off the drilling until tomorrow.

 

 

[edinmass]

Looks good Joe. 👍

[JV Puleo]

I haven't much to report today. I drilled center holes for the 10 1/4" holes that go in the radius of the adjuster.

 

 

Then moved it over to the drill press to finish them. I do that because it's much easier and this is a case where extreme precision isn't required. I lined the drill up bu using this 60-degree center which fits into the countersink left by the center drill.

 

 

Then each hole was drilled out.

 

 

Finished...

 

 

A certain amount of the day was spent on working out exactly how this will go together. I think I've got it solved and last night I ordered a thrust bearing and the bushing I'll need. I'll have to put this aside until they come in but I'm pretty sure the finished result will be better than the original.

[ply33]

You do meticulous work so I am not doubting that you’ve made what is needed. But it an optical illusion or is the inside diameter of the original larger than your reproduction?

[JV Puleo]

Yes, the ID of the original piece is 2" while the ID of the one I've made is 1-3/4". I did this for two reasons. I don't have a 2" mandrel to turn it on but, more importantly, I don't think the original design was as good as it could have been. One of the major things I've learned is that the Mitchell-Lewis company often chose the easy, or even cheap, way of doing things. In its original configuration this piece contributed very little to keeping the pinion shaft straight and solidly held. What they did do was put a projection on the front of the pinion that ran in a ball bearing inside the rear end housing. This was a good design in that the pinion was supported on both ends. It was not a design that was used often since it made designing the housing difficult. All the original piece did was adjust the relationship between the ring and pinion.

 

I am going to bush the piece I've made so that the entire length of the pinion shaft is supported. That can't help but be an advantage but also the piece of the casting that holds the outboard bearing is broken off. Replacing it will be a serious challenge and I'm not at all convinced I can do it. I will try, and I think I can do it but I will have to rely on either a needle bearing or a bushing. If it can't be done, the pinion shaft will not be reliant on just the bearing at the end for support and the arrangement will be similar to that used on many other cars.

 

I am also going to incorporate an oil cup in the top of the torque tube to drip heavy oil on the pinion shaft.

 

We shouldn't be too surprised at the short-cuts Mitchell took. This car was built to a price. If you look at something like a contemporary 4-cylinder Locomobile there is very little difference in the complexity or the number of parts but, in the case of the Locomobile, every part was made to the highest standards.  I see absolutely no reason to do a mediocre job just because the original factory did. This is even more the case when you are making just one part...often it's even easier to make a better part. This part exhibits that. They used a casting...cheap when you are making hundreds of them but very expensive if you need just one.

Edited August 5, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[stretch cab]

Hey Joe, hope you are doing well.  Been missing your posts!

[JV Puleo]

I'm still here. I've spent the last week on a project for my colleague Stuart. My shop is in the basement of his office/warehouse. He not only doesn't charge me rent, he even pays the electric bill so it stands to reason that when something needs to be done to the building I'm more than willing to help. I'm almost finished and I confess that by 3pm I was tuckered out so I quit for the day and spent a little time in the shop. The parts I needed only came in mid-week so I haven't really lost much time.

 

They are...a bronze bushing 1-3/8 x 1-3/4 x 4". This came from American Sleeve Bearing in Stafford Springs, CT. As a specialty manufacturer, they have a much wider selection than McMaster Carr. Their prices are better and they ship via FedEx. This is one of the few vendors I've found that has proved 100% reliable and a pleasure to deal with. I also bought a new thrust bearing with a 1-3/4" ID and an antique machine oiler that matches the miniature oilers that I intend to use on the steering knuckles.

 

 

The bushing fits into the pinion adjuster and the thrust bearing goes over the end. This is a change from the original. The original thrust bearing had a 1-3/8 ID. It obviously rotated slightly on the pinion shaft and where it touched the threads it flattened them. This was not a major problem but I see no reason to replicate it.

 

 

 I measured the distance it projected from the bushing (about .140) and trimmed the bushing a little over .150 so that it would be slightly below the top plate of the thrust bearing.

 

 

A washer with a 1-3/8 ID will go on top to bear on the thrust.

 

 

I'm not sure if I'll get back to this tomorrow...

Yesterday my friend Paul Zangari stopped to ask if I'd do his radio talk show with him tomorrow morning...a car-oriented call-in show called Drive-Thru Radio on WPRO (Providence) from 8 to 9 AM (I think). I have done it several times in the past, often when either Paul or his brother John, the other host, is unable to make it. The Zangari brothers are my oldest "car" friends. We went to high school together and to a large extent my earliest contact with old cars was through them.

Edited August 12, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

A further note...

I can read private messages but I cannot reply except from the computer at work. If anyone wants to contact me you can send a PM but please include an email address.

 

 

[JV Puleo]

I decided to grind the pinion shaft to fit the bushing so Wednesday I set up the tool post grinder.

 

 

This is a tricky grinding job. I can't touch the threads on one end or the ground surface on the other end where the bearing is pressed on. Fortunately, the OD of threads is always smaller than the nominal size but I still had to start from the left and reverse the feed for each cut. All this took a lot of time and I was away yesterday so I didn't finish it until today.

 

 

 

I did a test assembly and decided to take a further .100 off the face of the adjuster.

 

 

Then I pressed bearing on to the pinion shaft.

 

 

This goes together with a shim about .080 thick between the bearing and the pinion. This is to make the pinion run on the inner race of the bearing without rubbing on the outer race which will be locked in the torque tube.

 

 

I also had to shorten the bushing to match the adjuster.

 

 

When I reassembled it, I realized that the shaft would not slide in all the way. This is because the shaft (nominal size 1-3/8") is about .002 big on the bearing end and .003 small for the bushing (which is .001 undersize so the clearance around the shaft is .001). The pinion does not go on all the way so I was left with about .200 of the shaft too big for the bearing. I fixed that by counterboring the bearing on the pinion end.

 

 

When I assembled everything this time, everything fit just about perfectly.

 

 

The last step today was to glue the bearing in with Locktite slip fit. I think this takes 48 hours to reach full strength but it will be solid enough tomorrow to go on with drilling some oil holes.

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Not much today. I'm tired but I force myself back into the shop to try to get something done every day. I did receive this letter stamp set. Virtually all early cars parts that are stamped used serif letters. The modern stamps are all sans-serif so I keep on the lookout for old sets. I probably have all the numbers I need but I'm short of letters.

 

 

When I did the test assembly yesterday I purposely left the Woodruff key out  so today I popped the pinion off...

 

 

And replaced the key.

 

 

Then the nut. They "staked" it but I decided to use high-strength Locktite since all you have to do to remove it is heat the nut.

 

 

And I started on this plug. I'll have to put the adjuster back in the rotary table to drill the oil holes and grip it at the back where the holes for a tommy-bar are. That makes a lot of overhang and I don't want to take any chances now that the part is nearly done so this will give me something to press a center against to hold the outside end solid while I drill.

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I finished the the centering plug...

 

 

It goes in the end of the adjuster with a piece of 1" bar in the middle and a collar to hold it in place.

 

 

Then into the milling machine to be lined up. The tailstock is one I bought long ago and it turned out to not work with my dividing head. It isn't really centered perfectly here but certainly good enough to brace the end of the adjuster.

 

 

Then I put in 5 holes around the circumference. I don't really know if this is needed. There was no need to lubricate the original adjuster because the pinion shaft was loose inside it. I suspect that it will lubricate just fine with gear oil flying around inside the differential and the ends of the big bearing open but, having gone this far I don't see any reason to not incorporate a little additional lubrication.

 

 

And it's done. Tomorrow I'll bolt the torque tube down to the table and fit everything together just to make sure it works as intended.

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

The pinion adjuster in the torque tube. It was a little fussy to assemble but it overall I'm quite pleased with it.

 

 

I think that gear oil splashing around inside the differential will lubricate this but just to be safe I'm adding this Lukenheimer drip oiler to the plate that covers the end of the tube.

 

 

I will replace the glass with a piece of brass tubing but before doing that I need an adapter to screw the oiler into. The plate is only .100 thick and the oiler will be located over the clamping bolt so it cannot project into the differential. I started by cutting a small piece of 7/8" brass hex.

 

 

I turned it round for about .100, then trimmed the top so that the total thickness of the adapter corresponds to the threaded portion of the oiler.

 

 

Then it was threaded 1/4" NPT.

 

 

 

It goes on this plate...

 

 

So I located and drilled a 3/4" hole...

 

 

And pressed it in. Tomorrow I'll solder it in place and go on with the oiler.

 

[JV Puleo]

Soldering the adapter for the drip oiler to the cover plate.

 

 

I then cut a piece of brass tube to replace the glass.

 

 

And soldered that in place to eliminate the need for the lower gasket.

 

 

The top of the oiler is actually below the top of the differential cover so the height here is not an issue.

 

 

And...I completely forgot about this part.

 

 

That pressed out "ear" fit into one of the tommy-bar holes to keep the adjuster from turning. It doesn't fit...or I'm not sure how it was supposed to fit but I haven't been able to get it in. I spent the remainder of the day thinking about this and making some sketches of how I can accomplish the same thing. I'm guessing this part may have been an afterthought. They may have had some problems with this torque tube arrangement because they changed it very quickly. Theoretically, clamping the bearing in place with the cinch bolt should lock the threads but it was practically impossible to get the dimensions absolutely correct. If the thread was only a few thousandths big, the bearing would not be locked in place. They erred (as I did) on getting the bearing locked but the threads are a bit undersized. They probably planned to make both pieces lock but discovered that the precision needed was too demanding, hence this additional part. I'll make some drawings tonight and order what I need. It isn't a terribly difficult job.

[JV Puleo]

This piece of 3/4" bar will get a stud in one end and a pin in the other for the adjuster lock. I've ordered the bits I need but don't expect them until tomorrow.

 

 

In the meantime I've started on the rear end again. This is the replacement for the one I'd done all of this before on but discovered it was cracked and "repaired" with a big, lumpy braze. This one is cracked as well but not in a critical area. When I've cleaned it up I'll have Ed's metal stitcher fix it. On the plus side, the cover I have fits this one where it didn't fit the original housing properly. I have to ream out the holes where the brake actuating bars fit. Mitchell used cast Babbitt here. Babbitt is great stuff for rotating shafts but it's unsuitable for a shaft that only makes about half a turn and is under extreme pressure. I want to ream them out, removing the Babbitt, fit a steel sleeve and then a bronze bushing.

 

 

The holes are reamed with a 1-3/16 bridge reamer...these are tapered so they will start in the hole. The first time I did this I melted the Babbitt out but I'm leaving it in this time and reaming it out. It is very tedious and I'm thinking that I should ream it with a smaller reamer first...what you see here is the result of about 4 hours work.

 

 

just poking out the other side...

 

 

This is as far as I got today. I'm going to order a smaller reamer tonight. I'll finish this one and make the 4 insert sleeves while I wait for it.

 

[JV Puleo]

The hole reamed through. The short reamer is easier to handle but I need this long one to finish the hole. The nominal size is 1-3/16 (1.875) but this type of reamer cuts oversize so the actual measurement is 1.2.

 

 

With the first one done, I cut four pieces of 1-1/4 bar.

 

 

These get drilled and reamed 1".

 

 

 

They will have to be turned down to 1.2. The bushings for the brake actuating shafts press into the sleeves.

[JV Puleo]

Having reamed out one of the holes I came in today to put the sleeve in...checking my measurements because I don't want it to go half-way in and stick. (Something that happened in the past.) I started by turning one down to 1.2"

 

 

It was trimmed to length...or at least as close as I could come since it's difficult to get a really accurate measurement on the rusty axle housing. Then I pulled it in using a piece of 3/4" threaded rod, two big nuts and two washers.

 

 

It was a little tighter than I'd have liked but did go in. It's also a little long but I think I will leave that as it is and trim it flush after I've pressed the bushing in.

 

[JV Puleo]

Turning down the remaining 3 sleeves...

 

 

 

And the intermediate car reamer came in so I started on another hole. This is as far as I got...but I'll finish tomorrow.

 

[JV Puleo]

I haven't much to report. I pressed in another sleeve on Tuesday...

 

 

Then flipped the housing around and started on another. In this case, the Babbitt had already been melted out.

 

 

And I was able to finish it in time to start on the last one.

 

 

This is a very tedious job and, of course, one that won't show at all. Each one takes me between 4 and 5 hours to complete.

[chistech]

While it won’t show Joe, it’s a very much needed job. I used a ton of my time making a mold for an offset rubber bushing used on my Olds muffler hanger. It seems olds figured out that the bracket they riveted to the chassis wasn’t quite in line with the exhaust so they made a unique offset rubber bushing and used two of them in the hanger. I made the mold and Joe Pirronne cast them in two part urethane. Talk about a part no one will see or probably wasn’t really needed on a restored car running on nice blacktop roads. But, we did it for originality. Or, possibly because both joe and I are OCD!😁 Your work, as always, is outstanding and I’m starting to see a car coming together in my head!

[JV Puleo]

Thanks Ted.

You are right, of course and it's especially critical where brakes are concerned. Two-wheel brakes are perfectly adequate for a car as light as this one will be, driven on dry roads, but it is only logical to make them as good as they can be. My intention here is to eliminate virtually all of the play in the mechanical links. There may be other modifications as well. The Babbitt bushings were probably adequate but without the fixtures used by the maker of the rear axle, re-pouring them would have proved an even greater challenge. There is no question the bronze bushings are stronger and will last longer but they are also the only practical way I can think of to renew them.

[JV Puleo]

And there is the 4th (and last) one. This one gave me more trouble than the other 3 together. I'm not certain why but it slants down at a very slight angle. Judging from the wear patterns on the original parts, this may always have been the case. I suspect that it was cast using a two-piece pattern and that they weren't in perfect alignment. I do not believe this will cause a problem. The way these work is pretty simple and all it will do is cause the brake expander to wear slightly unevenly. That's not much of a problem since they are new and if it were to be driven enough to wear it out – a very unlikely scenario – it's not impossible to replace. It would have been nice to remove the entire casting from the axle and bore it in the mill but would have entailed a huge amount of work and it could easily be broken in the process.

 

 

If you look at the 3/8" hole in the boss to the right of this picture you can see how far off one side of the casting was from the other. That hole is directly in the center of the boss on the other side. In any case, I've an idea of a way to face the ends of the bushed holes off so they are perfectly perpendicular to the holes in the bushings so my guess is that this flaw will not effect anything and won't show either. It still annoys me though.

Edited September 3, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Luv2Wrench]

Wow that's a lot of work but the results certainly look worth the effort.  I think I have to do a similar task on the Metz.  I imagine I'll be referring to this thread over and over once I finally get back on the Metz.  Really glad you're showing me the way.

 

[JV Puleo]

It is quite possible. If I had to do it again I think I would try to remove the castings and bore them in the mill. It would have been a better job. If you have to do something similar to the Metz, give some thought to doing it that way. Getting the tapered reamers to track straight is difficult and, in at least one instance, I didn't get it just right.