Mark66A Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 When I searched my archive for a photo of a 1925 Stearns-Knight sedan, I located some magazine ads for Stearns in 1925. One caught my attention because of our earlier discussion on L.A. outlets. The ad, for Houdaille shocks in the "Touring Topics" publication, featured a letter from a Stearns Distributor by the name of "Lynn C. Buxton" located at Figueroa at Seventeenth Los Angeles. The Houdaille-Pacific Company located at 1616 South Hill Street in L.A. listed these brands as using their shocks as standard equipment: Pierce-Arrow, Lincoln, Mercer, McFarlan, Cunningham, Stearns, Cadillac Busses and Stewart Busses. In large type at the bottom of the ad was their name spelled out as it was to be pronounced: HOO DYE. The scanned file is too large to post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 30 minutes ago, Mark66A said: When I searched my archive for a photo of a 1925 Stearns-Knight sedan, I located some magazine ads for Stearns in 1925. One caught my attention because of our earlier discussion on L.A. outlets. The ad, for Houdaille shocks in the "Touring Topics" publication, featured a letter from a Stearns Distributor by the name of "Lynn C. Buxton" located at Figueroa at Seventeenth Los Angeles. The Houdaille-Pacific Company located at 1616 South Hill Street in L.A. listed these brands as using their shocks as standard equipment: Pierce-Arrow, Lincoln, Mercer, McFarlan, Cunningham, Stearns, Cadillac Busses and Stewart Busses. In large type at the bottom of the ad was their name spelled out as it was to be pronounced: HOO DYE. The scanned file is too large to post here. Mark, if you email me a link I'll resize it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Houdaille became Monroe.............the pronunciation given is correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Thank you AJ for re-sizing this image so it can be posted. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Brainard Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Edinmass and Mark, Thank you both so far. Broke away from chores this afternoon to confirm and answer questions and take additional photos. Engine number is 32658 and is listed on the title as the VIN number. Engine is a straight 6. Wheel base 121”. Mark, The first photo you posted shows what appears to be cowl lights, there is no indication my car had them. Also that photo shows the door handles being vertical, mine are horizontal. Second photo advertisement of the shocks appears to be closer to my car, no cowl lights and horizontal handles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Brainard Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Brainard Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Ned......any sleeve valve car is a handful for an experienced collector.......your jumping in with two feet! Mark probably knows more about Stearns cars than anyone else.........there are just so few people familiar with them. Most importantly, take you time, look things over, and figure out what could go wrong ahead of time.........prevention is free.....and ten times easier than a repair. Best, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Brainard Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Looks like it will clean up well as is............trust me on this........get it running and driving just the way it is before you make any major commitments to cosmetic improvements. Get a good base line on what you have before you start to improve. See my 1917 White thread after pulling it out of a barn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 That funky early coil is often a problem..........keep it in mind when you check for spark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Brainard Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Edinmass, Good to know about the coil. Cosmetically, it is only original once, most likely will remain this way. Thank you again. Ned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughs Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Lynn C. Buxton also sold Stutz and Franklin automobiles. I have a 1926 Stutz sales brochure stamped with his name and dealership info and a 1929 Franklin with a plate saying sold by Lynn C. Buxton. Mark, I was looking at the photos that Ned posted and am wondering if the hotspot cross-over tube is the same on has car as would be on my 1927 Model F? It looks the same but is it the same size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterwoyen Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 It looks like a very sound complete car. It appears to have S-K's early hydraulic brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Great thread, we are all learning a lot! Ned's car chassis number and engine number are the same which is correct for that year. Later they differed. The photo I posted that is similar to Neds car came from a leather bound dealer album. I has a variety of body styles for the 1924-25 model years for the "B" (Big Four) 4 cyl and the "C" 6 cyl. The photo I posted was the fanciest of the bunch. Others show the same door handles as Ned's car and no cowl lights. Three door handle styles are shown in that album. To date, I have not seen two Stearns cars of the same model and year that were identical. They had running changes all the time. As an example my H-8-90 is different from one side to the other. Right side spare tire side mount bracket is cast iron, left side is cast bronze. Peter and I found difference in the pin-stripe from one side to the other. These cars were hand built, with different people on each side of the car, doing their job their way with their talent and interpretation. That's OK, can't see both sides at once anyway. Steve, the six cylinder engines from the 1925 thru 1928 -models C, S, D & F are very similar but not identical. One example: Water cover castings differ. Perhaps Ned can measure the diameter of his pipe for a comparison to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Brainard Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 10 hours ago, pughs said: Lynn C. Buxton also sold Stutz and Franklin automobiles. I have a 1926 Stutz sales brochure stamped with his name and dealership info and a 1929 Franklin with a plate saying sold by Lynn C. Buxton. Mark, I was looking at the photos that Ned posted and am wondering if the hotspot cross-over tube is the same on has car as would be on my 1927 Model F? It looks the same but is it the same size? Pughs, I'd be happy to measure the hotspot crossover tube for you, if I new what that was? Ned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pughs Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Ned, Here are some photos of one made out of muffler pipe. I believe the original one was cast iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) Ned, Your photo of the ID plate on the side of the engine lists a License # and an engine #. The engine # was issued by Stearns as a record of the engine built for that particular car model (in your case "C"). The license # was issued by "The Knight American Patent Company" to "The F.B. Stearns Company". The license number is particular to the engine in your car, and was important as a record of the engines produced under the patent license contract. Any manufacturer building Knight engines built them under license and had to pay The Knight American Patent Company an amount for each engine built. The amount of the payment varied by contract and by volume. I have a copy of a contract (safely stored in my piles-aka files) that started out at $100 for each engine built. I think a more average amount would have been in the $60 range. I have a collection of ID tags taken from junked engines by Art Aseltine. All the License numbers are different. The number you should use to register the car is the Chassis number. Your car appears to have been previously owned by (initials only) E.G.G. and was listed in the WOKR roster from 1980 through 2013. Edited January 27, 2021 by Mark66A Additional info (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 Here is a photo of the Brunn from 1956 that Mark found in Art's files. Thanks Mark! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 Another photo from Mark showing a H8-90 with a coachbuilt body in what looks like Central Park. Art thought Rollston and I agree - but we need Jason to confirm the door handles. I don't think this is the car in the Salon photo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Yes, I would say the same car and most likely both photos taken at the same general time with the town car going into the Commodore Hotel after the Central Park photo was taken by John Adams Davis or after the salon. Most likely before. The Central Park location was only about 10 minutes north of the Hotel Commodore. I went to look to find the Central Park location on a cross street that ran through the park about 10 years ago and even then the location had over grown so much in 70+ years that it was hard to tell it was the exact spot. Need to check to see what other cars were at the Salon on that stand, most cars were displayed on the coach builders stand not by car make as they rarely if ever had their own exhibit space. Another story to record who, what and where to make sense of it all , if I were still doing my Coachworklines column 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 40 minutes ago, Walt G said: Yes, I would say the same car and most likely both photos taken at the same general time with the town car going into the Commodore Hotel after the Central Park photo was taken by John Adams Davis or after the salon. Most likely before. The Central Park location was only about 10 minutes north of the Hotel Commodore. I went to look to find the Central Park location on a cross street that ran through the park about 10 years ago and even then the location had over grown so much in 70+ years that it was hard to tell it was the exact spot. Need to check to see what other cars were at the Salon on that stand, most cars were displayed on the coach builders stand not by car make as they rarely if ever had their own exhibit space. Another story to record who, what and where to make sense of it all , if I were still doing my Coachworklines column The two cars to the left of the one we are talking about are both Stearns Knight J8-90s bodied by Brunn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Had a great day today. Mark (AKA Mark66A) and Barb stopped by and gave me lessons in Stearns Knight evolution and history. He is the go to guy on Stearns. Enjoyed letting him drive a car he has been familiar with for decades. We also took the White out to lunch. A great day with true car people. I first met Mark at Hershey twenty or more years ago if my memory is correct. Here is a shot of him driving it past Mar-A-Lago , it’s probably the first time in fifty years anyone sat in the back seat. Note: The car meet dash plaques on the car are from the 50’s and 60’s. All at least five years before I was born. Edited February 1, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Yes, those are definitely Rollston door handles 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 That may not be the same car as is parked in Central Park. The Rollston in Central Park has sidemount mirrors and a trunk. The car in the Salon does not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 19 minutes ago, K8096 said: Yes, those are definitely Rollston door handles I agree.......100 percent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Brainard Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 On 1/27/2021 at 12:11 PM, Mark66A said: Ned, Your photo of the ID plate on the side of the engine lists a License # and an engine #. The engine # was issued by Stearns as a record of the engine built for that particular car model (in your case "C"). The license # was issued by "The Knight American Patent Company" to "The F.B. Stearns Company". The license number is particular to the engine in your car, and was important as a record of the engines produced under the patent license contract. Any manufacturer building Knight engines built them under license and had to pay The Knight American Patent Company an amount for each engine built. The amount of the payment varied by contract and by volume. I have a copy of a contract (safely stored in my piles-aka files) that started out at $100 for each engine built. I think a more average amount would have been in the $60 range. I have a collection of ID tags taken from junked engines by Art Aseltine. All the License numbers are different. The number you should use to register the car is the Chassis number. Your car appears to have been previously owned by (initials only) E.G.G. and was listed in the WOKR roster from 1980 through 2013. E.G.G. was the owner of this car prior to the person I purchased it from, registration was still in the car from him. Trying to track down through the local club that knew E.G.G. who he may have purchased it through. I have only had time to blow the car down with air and vacuum the inside, move it into the shop, and put ATF down the cylinders. Do not have a manual for this car, where can one be purchased? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterwoyen Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Ned, if you haven't yet joined please consider joining the W.O.K.R. Willys-Overland-Knight-Registry. You'll then have access to the library which is considerable. You can purchase scans of documents etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 On 1/31/2021 at 9:11 PM, edinmass said: Had a great day today. Mark (AKA Mark66A) and Barb stopped by and gave me lessons in Stearns Knight evolution and history. He is the go to guy on Stearns. Enjoyed letting him drive a car he has been familiar with for decades. We also took the White out to lunch. A great day with true car people. I first met Mark at Hershey twenty or more years ago if my memory is correct. Here is a shot of him driving it past Mar-A-Lago , it’s probably the first time in fifty years anyone sat in the back seat. Note: The car meet dash plaques on the car are from the 50’s and 60’s. All at least five years before I was born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Another picture from a back seat. This one taken by Peter. Mark in in passenger seat. What car and who is the driver???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Mark66A said: Another picture from a back seat. This one taken by Peter. Mark in in passenger seat. What car and who is the driver???? Chrysler turbine? Jay Leno? Edited February 3, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just to puff my chest, I was laying in bed on my phone when I did that ID. This morning on my computer I can see Jay in the rear view mirror so it is pretty easy then. I figured Jay because I don't know of any other turbines that run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34LaSalleClubSedan Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 hours ago, alsancle said: Just to puff my chest, I was laying in bed on my phone when I did that ID. This morning on my computer I can see Jay in the rear view mirror so it is pretty easy then. I figured Jay because I don't know of any other turbines that run? Plus a Denim Shirt driving 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) UPDATE: It's time to take the Brunn Stearns Knight off the back burner and start pounding on it to get it sorted out. We have a new set of hoops coming, along with tubes and rim strips, and hopefully they will all arrive at the same time. We are going to try and get the car back to how it looked in the photos in 1929 on the auto show floor........so paint and chrome will be addressed on the wheels. We will be doing some under hood upgrades.....correcting wrong hoses and clamps, doing the entire ignition system over, and a bunch of minor under hood details. We learned a bunch of new and interesting details when Mark drove the car last week. Details the owner of the car wasn't even aware of........thats the fun thing about great cars....they just keep getting better and better. Did you know you can check the engine oil level from the drivers seat on a late series Stearns Knight? I didn't..........and we also found a handful of one off items that we will cover as we get to them. With luck, we are going to hit this car hard..........seems there is a CCCA caravan I want to attend.......and I think driving the car on the tour would be a lot of fun.................AJ ..............pay attention, I'm borrowing your car for a week and 2k miles! I sure hope your gonna pick up the tab for the gas while I'm "sorting it" in Colorado and Utah. We will update the thread as things start to move along in the next two weeks....best, Ed Edited February 3, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Wheels will be HUGE improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, John_Mereness said: Wheels will be HUGE improvement I agree, and they will be a HUGE headache for the poor, good looking, highly skilled mechanic that has to straighten them all out. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, edinmass said: I agree, and they will be a HUGE headache for the poor, good looking, highly skilled mechanic that has to straighten them all out. Awesome! You were able to find someone. btw, it is impossible to buy tubes right now for 19-21 inch rims. Impossible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Brainard Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 I dropped the pan over the weekend also needing to remove the aluminum casting under the flywheel to access the two hidden nuts. Oil pump and gears look good, are these different than the ones I’m seeing others posting about being pop metal? Looks like a cast iron body and steel gears with a pressed in brass bushing. Am I good to reassemble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Small oil pump, looks fine. They get plenty of lubrication, clean, check the pressure relief, clean the pan. Drive it.👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark66A Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) As I recall, the models F,G and H engines used the same oil pump. I'm not sure which model was the last to use the pump in your C model. Note that H and J models were mechanically identical but with different wheelbases. Following model C were models S ('25 thru Aug 26) and D (Sept '26 to ??). I have never understood the sequence. All shared the same bore, stroke and wheelbase. Edited February 15, 2021 by Mark66A (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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