Stearns Knight

[alsancle]

Here is a photo from the University of Michigan Brunn/Stearns archive that I had copied.   There is a lot of cool stuff in there and will try to post a bunch of it.

 

All you car guru guys recognize the Brunn Riviera to the left?

 

Ed,  take note that the deep red wheels with black tires do not look horrible.

[alsancle]

Another.

[alsancle]

This one is for Darryl.   Have we seen it before?

[edinmass]

2 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Another.

 

Obviously a “barn find” since the photo was taken in front of a barn........🤔
 

 

[alsancle]

[alsancle]

This is a picture I have never seen before.

[alsancle]

[edinmass]

So much fun........think I will take it for a spin this afternoon.

[Cadillac Fan]

On 3/10/2021 at 8:37 AM, alsancle said:

Here is a photo from the University of Michigan Brunn/Stearns archive that I had copied.   There is a lot of cool stuff in there and will try to post a bunch of it.

 

All you car guru guys recognize the Brunn Riviera to the left?

 

Ed,  take note that the deep red wheels with black tires do not look horrible.

My understanding is that three were made. J528, j525, and j440.  All three of these currently have the open fenders( non skirted) on them.  I believe j525 is original, and I have seen an early photo of j528, so my guess is j440 pre its current restoration. The photo below seems to be the car in your photo, but it has no identification with it.  I love the hinges on these cars.

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[Peterwoyen]

22 hours ago, alsancle said:

I wonder if the fenders and splash aprons were always that chocolate brown color?  Perhaps so as even in this black and white photo they aren't as dark as the top material or belt molding appears to be.  

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, Peterwoyen said:

I wonder if the fenders and splash aprons were always that chocolate brown color?  Perhaps so as even in this black and white photo they aren't as dark as the top material or belt molding appears to be.  

this is a 1950s photo.  The top was changed from tan to black after WWII.

[alsancle]

Here is a shot of the back showing the license plate.  The plate is 56,  but the sticker is 62.

[pughs]

In 1963 California began issuing the black plate that everyone seems so enamored with???

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, pughs said:

In 1963 California began issuing the black plate that everyone seems so enamored with???

Yes.  The yellow plate shown on the Stearns was the first nationally-standardized size plate adopted by CA.  It was used beginning in 1956 and with year stickers through 1962.  The black-background plates began in 1963 and ran out of letter-numeral combinations in mid-1970.  Black plates remain valid today with current stickers.

[Ned Brainard]

Hi guys,

We had a pretty big snow / ice storm to hit the Oregon / Washington area a month ago. We were without power for 8 days followed by weeks of cleaning up downed trees. Probably finish the clean-up in a few more days working several hours each night after work.

That being said, have not worked on the Stearns besides cleaning and painting the oil pan and cutting a new gasket. 

The oil float rod (aluminum) had also been damaged at some point and would not travel / float, I have replaced this.

I have two questions for the group.

1. How many quarts of oil does the book call for, it's a model C engine in a 1925.

     There is no marking on the float rod, if the car calls for say 5 quarts, I'd like to start with say 4 to make a low mark then add the remaining to scribe the high mark. Thoughts?

2. The oil pump cover I noticed has a threaded hole in the bottom, should there be a pipe reaching further into the oil pan sump for pick-up??? 

Thanks for your help and suggestions. 

Ned

 

 

[wmsue]

The early WK Model 64 and 65's took 7 quarts.

I'll see if I have any info specifically on the Stearns Knight.

 

 

Bill

[Mark66A]

I just did a quick look at material I have for the '24 thru '26 models C and S. Neither sales literature or Operations manuals list the oil capacity. They just say that the oil level indicator should be at the red mark and to not let it fall below half full. I suggest that these motors will take at lest 8 quarts. The F was a very different motor than the C or S and shares many parts with the G and H 8 cyl engines. The models M & N 6 cyl cars were on 1928 Willys Knight Great Six chassis. That motor calls for 8 quarts, but they quickly use one quart and then stay put.... So I just put in 7. Not much help here for Ned, but "your garage man will know"!!

Ned, I suggest you determine how deep into the pan the oil pump is located. I have not been inside of a C and your pump is different that what I have worked with. You most likely will not need an extension tube.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Mark66A (see edit history)

[Ned Brainard]

Thank you for the reply. I’ll fill my oil pan with water and see how many quarts I come up with when it’s level with the screen then report back. I’ll also try and gauge what depth my pump sits inside the pan. 
 

[Mark66A]

Your pump should pick up oil from under the screen. On the H motors there is an area in the pan where the pump passes through the screen area. Most Stearns are similar in design.  In photo Round area- for dip stick, more rectangular one is for oil pump.

[Ned Brainard]

Here is my oil pan with the screen removed and holding 2 gallons of soapy water last night. Adding one additional quart of water brings it just above the screen level. Thoughts on capacity? I am thinking of marking 7 quarts as low and 9 quarts as my high mark. 

[Cookie Man]

[Mark66A]

Great info Cookie Man.  I have that in my SK Service Bulletin book as well, and totally forgot about it! Mystery solved.

[Mark66A]

Prior to Universal joints a rag joint, or fabric disc was used to allow for the various angles present in a drive shaft. Somewhere in 1927 or 1928 a small firm in Beloit, WI called "Mechanics" developed the universal joint. It is not what you see today but was an oil filled sealed device using bushing style parts rather than the later needle bearings. Many were not lubricated properly and were destroyed. Some survive, like this one from the '29 J-8-90 that is in my shop currently. Below is a series of photos following disassembly and reassembly. I had seals springs and keepers made to do this job. You can do it as well. Contact me for suppliers if you want to do yours. "Mechanics" later bought Borg and Beck Clutch and after that Warner Gear and renamed the firm Borg Warner. The survivor today has a division called "Mechanics" that makes industrial size and truck universal joints.

[pughs]

I haven't posted anything for a while so I thought I would post a progress report. I rebuilt the oil pump with a new gear from Mark Young to replace the pot metal one that had disintegrated into a thick paste. I cleaned the pan and repainted the inside with Glyptol and reinstalled it. After filling the crankcase with oil, I started the car for about 10 seconds and found that I had oil pressure in the lines but nothing registered on the oil gauge. I will have to deal with that later. I put the radiator back on the car which had been off since I bought the car. As I started  to fill it with water, the radiator, which supposedly had been refurbished by the previous owner, gushed water around the crank hole. I removed the radiator and sent it to the shop to be repaired. When I got it back I installed it again and filled it with water. The radiator was fine but the joint between the head and the water jack leaked badly all of the way around the head. I spoke to Mark about it and he sent me samples of the rubber and O-rings that will need to be replaced. I have spent the last couple of months trying to separate the water jacket from the head without breaking the aluminum jacket. I have been scraping the old rubber material out with a box cutter and linoleum knife and gently prying. I think the problem is that the aluminum has corroded to the steel tubes that surround the spark plugs. At Mark's suggestion, I have tapped wooden door shims between the head and water jacket but the jacket is not yet moving.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Johan Boltendal]

You could try and soak these pipes day after day with diesel oil, looks like the way it's constructed in the picture, it would hold some diesel around the pipes. Diesel oil will eventually loosen the corroded parts.

From exp. it takes up to several month's, but at a given time you can take the jacket off, without damaging it. 

[alsancle]

Good luck Steve.    My only thought is that the engine looks great from that top view.

[pughs]

I have been using Kroil but it hasn't loosened anything yet.

[Johan Boltendal]

Had aquired a pair of Cadillac Johnson carbs laying around for more years then was good for them.Actually all and every part was kind of solid, one way or  another. My long tome friend and toolmaker said, he learned from his father, diesel oil will eventually loosen any frozen part . The two solid carbs were submerged in diesel oil for about 6/months . They both came apart without ANY damage and I have restored the carbs afterwards to pristine and functional condition. 

[Cookie Man]

Mine leaked after I removed the cover and replaced it with the o ring cord stock. After running a bead of Loctite SI5910 it stopped leaking. Maybe it would be worth a try to stop the leak with this without removing the cover. The o rings for the threaded heads is available from McMaster Carr( 1283N344). They also require Loctite to prevent leaking.

[JFranklin]

There are things that will dissolve Aluminum Oxide. try the internet for the solution.

[pughs]

1 hour ago, Cookie Man said:

Mine leaked after I removed the cover and replaced it with the o ring cord stock. After running a bead of Loctite SI5910 it stopped leaking. Maybe it would be worth a try to stop the leak with this without removing the cover. The o rings for the threaded heads is available from McMaster Carr( 1283N344). They also require Loctite to prevent leaking.

The water was pouring out all of the way around the bottom seam. With the inserting of the box cutter into the space around the bottom edge I have gone too far to try to patch what was there. if that was even possible. I bought the O-rings and rubber cord from Grainger. They have a store near my shop. I will get some diesel oil and try that instead of the Kroil. Will the stuff that dissolves aluminum oxide do any damage to the rest of the water jacket? Thank you all for the suggestions and interest.

 

Steve

[edinmass]

Sorry this took so long. This is a two barrel manifold for an eight cylinder Stearns. When I was on the AACA tour a few weeks ago I picked this up. 

[edinmass]

The current plan is to figure out and configure two barrel and single barrel carbs for the Stearns eight. I’ll get on it as soon as the weather hear heats up too much to drive. Should be an interesting experience. With luck, new correct tubes will be available and we can start sorting the 29 Stearns Brunn auto show car. Been working out a bunch of things in my head, so progress once we start should be swift.

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

The current plan is to figure out and configure two barrel and single barrel carbs for the Stearns eight. I’ll get on it as soon as the weather hear heats up too much to drive. Should be an interesting experience. With luck, new correct tubes will be available and we can start sorting the 29 Stearns Brunn auto show car. Been working out a bunch of things in my head, so progress once we start should be swift.

 

Nobody is more excited than me that you finished the White.  

[edinmass]

Just now, alsancle said:

 

Nobody is more excited than me that you finished the White.  

Decided this afternoon to do a Pebble Beach restoration on it.........send money!

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Decided this afternoon to do a Pebble Beach restoration on it.........send money!

Now Ed,  you and I both know the car is too nice an original to wreck it like that.

[edinmass]

17 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Now Ed,  you and I both know the car is too nice an original to wreck it like that.

Ok, I’ll leave it as it is, just send money!

[pughs]

I have been soaking the water jacket in the grooves around the spark plug tubes with diesel oil for one month now. The diesel level hasn't gone down so it's not yet seeping through the corrosion. I tap on the shims everyday to keep the upward pressure on the water jacket and pound on the water jack sides and corners with a rubber mallet. It took nine months to free the sleeves so maybe I will only have eight more months to freeing up the water jacket.

[edinmass]

On the Brunn.......I hit it with a twelve pound sledge hammer, worked great. It’s fun when working on other people’s cars......much less downside than fixing your own stuff........🤔

[pughs]

Ed,

And are you still gluing the pieces back together??? I would have thought a 5 pound hammer would have been sufficient to pulverize it.