Buick Standard Question

[fozz71]

Hey Guys, I have a Buick and am running into an odd question, once the car is started I am not able to shift into any gears with the clutch pedal depressed. The former owner said he simply started the car in gear and was fine- which I will do. Maybe a clutch adjustment?

 

Thanks,

Jim

Edited November 20, 2016 by fozz71 (see edit history)

[fozz71]

Update: the car does move forward and backward in and out of gears, but unlike my Model A- I really need to "feel" for the right teeth and shift carefully and slowly.

 

Sound about right for a '26 Buick?

[F&J]

3 hours ago, fozz71 said:

once the car is started I am not able to shift into any gears with the clutch pedal depressed

not normal.

 

many things can cause this:

 

-clutch may need adjusting to get more "throw".   If you can sometimes shift into 3rd gear without any grinding, with car not moving, this is helpful knowledge that somewhat points to a simple adjustment.

 

-if the pilot bushing/bearing at the crankshaft is sticking, seizing, or stiff old grease, that can cause grinding when the car is not moving.

 

-in rare cases, oil may have swollen the clutch fabric material, and that ends up acting like a clutch adjustment issue. A related issue is if the clutch fabric material is buckling away from the steel disc, or similar.  This leaves "high spots" that keep slight contact when clutch is depressed, so the trans input shaft can't stop turning.

 

-some very early cars can benefit from having a much higher viscosity transmission oil.  This helps stop the trans input shaft from continuing to turn, when cutch pedal is depressed.

 

.

[critterpainter]

The 26 Buick has a multi-disc clutch.  after 90 years of life, the splines on the clutch may be full of debris, not allowing the clutch to fully engage or disengage.   A good cleaning of the clutch plates may solve your problem.

[ROD W]

The splines on the discs can also wear so they catch on the splines in the flywheel,  Also the discs could be saturated in dried oil that becomes gummy and causes the discs to stick together as  critter painter said. 

[maok]

Is there any oil in the box?

[fozz71]

I just changed out the oil and it was a lightweight 90W gear oil, I went in and added 600W with some STP and just drove it today for the first time since the change. Still can't seem to shift from neutral to reverse, need to have the car in reverse then start it,. after that the trans shifts okay when driving.

[DonMicheletti]

In my '18 manual, it says "shift quickly". It works for me. Since it is a crash box, everything is spinning and getting from neutral to anything isnt easy

[C Carl]

These multi-plate "clutchpaks" can sometimes be freed up with use after long periods of little use. Sometimes the reverse is true. You have good indication your case is the unfortunate latter , as the previous owner had the same problem. If it were me , I'd rebuild it , and take the opportunity to inspect and replace any transmission bearings and throwout bearing. These clutches require technique and understanding , and have some bad habits , e.g. stopping and starting again on a grade. They never fully disengage , so it is not a good idea to shift into neutral while stopped on a grade. Come to a stop in previous gear while depressing the clutch , select first when at a standstill going uphill , appropriate higher gear for gravity assist heading downhill. Wait in gear while putting a bit of wear on your properly lubricated throwout bearing. You evolve to driving far ahead and adjusting velocity accordingly. Fully retard your spark while at very slow speeds. To start out , you might want to first shift into reverse while stopped on level ground in neutral. Then quickly put it in first. Little things like that separate the shifters from the shiftless. Or something like that.  - Carl

[fozz71]

Well, I get the impression that the guy before me didn't drive it all that much. It could be just old lightweight oil that needs to be warmed and get some of the non-use cleaned out of it.

[dibarlaw]

fozz71:

 Check out my posts from June of 2014 . When we bought the car in 2011 I always had to start the car in gear. It would jump a bit and disengage. Read the rest of my story. I also have a set of the 1926 style clutch plates if needed.    

1925 Clutch Issues

in Buick - Pre War

Posted June 11, 2014 · Report post

[27donb]

My 27-54CC clutch was stuck.  Starting it in gear was like it had no clutch, the pedal had no affect at all.  Everything appeared normal externally.

 

This is what I found on the inside.  80+ years of....yunk!

 

 

[hidden_hunter]

Getting at the clutch isn't a particularly fun job either, we found that it worked best to have the transmission supported by the engine hoist when we removed it as it's incredibly heavy.

 

[JerryVan]

When I first start out I leave the transmission in gear. As others have stated, it jumps a bit, then the clutch breaks free. After that, it shifts just fine and usually won't be a problem the rest of the day. After it sits awhile however it'll want to stick again. Never been a real problem as long as I follow this procedure so I figure it's not worth digging into it to fix it.

[Hubert_25-25]

Asking a lot of clutch material that may be 90 years old.  Similar clutch disk set up in my 1925 Buick Standard.  The lining material is the same stuff as used on the brakes.  It is riveted on around a circle, rather than to a band as on the brakes.  The weak point is that the lining material  has a seam which they put a brass staple in.  The lining is not made from a single ring of friction material like you will get if you have it redone.  Notice how mine is coming loose from the rivets.   Hugh

 

[26-25Buick]

Or the clutch hub and the teeth on the clutch disc pack are so badly worn that clutch pack teeth look like shark fins and in the divets in the hub are so deep the clutch plates won't slide over (look at the right side of the hub and you'll see the wear pattern) The symptoms for this were you could start the car in gear but there was no way to engage a gear once it was running.

 

 

[27donb]

17 hours ago, JerryVan said:

When I first start out I leave the transmission in gear. As others have stated, it jumps a bit, then the clutch breaks free. After that, it shifts just fine and usually won't be a problem the rest of the day. After it sits awhile however it'll want to stick again. Never been a real problem as long as I follow this procedure so I figure it's not worth digging into it to fix it.

 

Sometimes over a  longer period of non use, I would depress the clutch pedal to the floor with a stick of wood against the pedal and the back side of the steering tube support bracket to keep the clutch plates from sticking together.

 

Not sure how many owners would endorse this, as it keeps the clutch spring compressed for a long period of time when it is only designed to be compressed for a few seconds at a time.

 

 

[Larry Schramm]

1 hour ago, 27donb said:

 

Sometimes over a  longer period of non use, I would depress the clutch pedal to the floor with a stick of wood against the pedal and the back side of the steering tube support bracket to keep the clutch plates from sticking together.

 

Not sure how many owners would endorse this, as it keeps the clutch spring compressed for a long period of time when it is only designed to be compressed for a few seconds at a time.

 

 

 

I do the same when storing the truck for the winter.  It keeps the clutch from sticking to the flywheel.   Known as "sticking the clutch"

[Guest buickguyflint]

I know this sounds crazy but I had a 28 standard 2 door and it also had a sticky jumpy clutch and this is what I was

advised to do. Put the bumper against a tree and work the clutch in and out a few times and the jumpy grabby

clutch will smooth out. It works and these Buicks were noted for being tough, so it will not hurt it. I was shocked

that this worked and the car drove smoothly afterward. Jim