Matt Harwood Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Many of you know how frustrated I've been with the exhaust manifolds on my '41 Limited lately. Originals cracked and the replacements cracked in about 45 minutes of driving. I'm not going to spend $1000-1500 on another set of 70 year old cast iron pieces. However, in one of those little fortuitous little moments that life throws your way, I had a fabricator wander into my shop today. I showed him the Limited's engine and the old broken manifolds and started talking about how if I get fed up I might just have someone make a set of stainless "headers" for the car and be done with it. His response? "I can do it." We talked at length about what we'd need, how we'd do it, and how they should look (we only talked about doing the dual carb exhaust manifolds, sorry). We would eliminate the flapper valve but would retain some kind of box as both a collector and to support the intake manifold (as a side note, he remarked when looking at the post-mortem of my manifolds that it appears bolting the intake and exhaust manifolds together rigidly helped cause the cracking, a theory which probably has some merit). These new tubular manifolds would have to work with the stock intake manifold and have exhaust outlets at the original positions and angle so you wouldn't have to change your exhaust. We don't much care about flow or improving performance--the originals aren't great for flow anyway--the goal is only to have a set of exhaust manifolds that don't leak and maybe, sort-of, might look like originals if you simply glance into the engine bay (check the photos below to see how visible they might be). We also discussed eliminating the copper rings and instead extend the stainless tubing past the flanges to act as the ring to help seal the exhaust ports. We also talked about materials and thought that T-306 stainless would be a good choice since it's not quite as brittle and hard as T-304 and mellows to a nice gold/brown color as it heat cycles, so if you leave the manifolds raw, at least they won't look like shiny silver pipes. It was also interesting to note that the manifolds appear to be mirror images of each other, which will help jigging and fixturing for production. He's pretty excited about doing this project and suggested that the materials would not be expensive but it would take a lot of time, at least for the first set. He kept saying "expensive" to do the first prototypes, but when I pinned him down, "expensive" meant "maybe $2000 plus materials." That seems shockingly reasonable. He likes the project simply because it's a challenge and it isn't a thing that's already available, but an actual opportunity to solve a problem for people. The more he looked, the more confident he became that he could make something that looked "maybe 75%" like the original parts. Once they're painted and installed and mostly hidden by the intake manifold, it won't be terribly noticeable. Not for judging, of course, but for a car that gets driven or like my Limited, simply needs some kind of manifold to be driven at all, it might be an economical solution. So I'm here asking if there's interest. He needs a set of original manifolds (all three pieces) and a cylinder head for mock-up, all of which I can supply. He'll need to be paid, and I'm willing to foot a chunk of that bill, too. But I was wondering if we do all this work, will there be a market for the results? A one-off is fine for me, and he doesn't care either way, but if there are even five or ten other guys who could benefit from something like this, I bet we could have new stainless "manifolds" for under a grand, no leaks, no future cracks, no issues. I was thinking $100 or $200 towards the prototyping would reserve you a set of the finished manifolds, once we've thoroughly tested the prototypes and finalized a quality design. I do know that every other '41 Buick I've heard running on YouTube has cracked manifolds, and they can't be the only ones. Feedback? Thoughts? Please let me know so I know if this is something worth pursuing! Edited March 23, 2016 by Matt Harwood Paragraph spacing (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 That's the answer, maybe judges will UNDERSTAND the issue, and go easy on point reductions for those that go the fab route, SEEMS SMART TO ME. My exhaust is 304, and I truly love the set up. Mandrel bent, beautiful Tig welds, a Indy car exhaust fellow built my system. Dale in Indy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Sorry, TXBuicks, I didn't mean to confuse anyone. I haven't had custom pieces made yet, those are original manifolds on the car right now. I spent $1500 for replacements, $3500 to have them painted and installed, and they cracked again within about 45 minutes of driving. So that's when I started thinking about alternatives. Nothing's been built yet, but I'm trying to gauge whether it's worth ponying up several thousand dollars more to have a set made, perhaps a run of 10 sets, for others to use. So no, what you're seeing is how it's supposed to look. The stainless pieces would look noticeably different. Sorry for the confusion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Seems to me a crafty person could fab a manifold from stainless that could be hidden inside a hollowed out original cast iron manifold and appear stock. Or perhaps cast new iron covers to replicate the look of the original. Best of both worlds. Damn, now I'll be awake all night figuring out how it might be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxBuicks Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 No wonder they looked great! I deleted my previous post displaying my ignorance in not knowing these were pictures of the original manifolds. Although I've seen thousands of Straight 8 engines, I've never owned a Straight 8 Buick. I'm embarrassed that I couldn't identify an original setup. Hopefully not many people read it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 If you 'could' MASK stainless within the originals the exhaust/intake would be VERY RESTRICTED, IMHO. I'm NO expert, but that approach would be out of the question. When all is said and done, STAINLESS will be the choice. PERIOD! It's also my opinion that removing the DOG HOUSE would aid in, reducing the build time, a better looking/functioning setup, and probably less cost. I would shop around, contacting race shops in the area, there are a lot of talented fellows building exhaust setups, I know that in Indy there are at least a dozen or more. My friend Steve Schmidt, pro stock engine builder, builds all his exhaust, and intake manifolds in house, and he AIN'T the only one doing such. Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 26, 2016 Author Share Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) I actually spent some time working on the car and found that most of the leaking exhaust noise was coming from the manifold/exhaust pipe joint, not the crack in the manifold itself. The flange was just a flat gasket and getting it to line up perfectly was probably a challenge. My mechanic noted that he had a hard time getting everything to line up properly and that it took two gaskets on the rear one to get it to seal. Looks like that double gasket seal failed. Looking at the manifolds, it dawned on me that a donut style exhaust gasket from, say, a small block Chevy would be about the same size. Off to the auto parts store! After prowling around in back and using my broken manifold as a reference, I came up with two donuts that just about fit inside. Take it all back to the shop, pull it apart, scrape old gaskets, and install donuts. After adding some slightly longer bolts, I was able to pull it all together and voila! It's sealed up again. There's a noticeable tick when it's cold, especially under acceleration, but after a minute or two, it seems to warm up enough to seal the crack and it's quiet again. So I'm calling this a win! I'm still going to see what my fabricator friend thinks about the project, because I don't trust that the manifolds will stay the way they are--the cracks will surely get worse. But at least I got a small win and it no longer sounds like a dump truck. Edited March 26, 2016 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Matt, have you considered making a story out of the subject of failed original manifolds and your thoughts of having them repoed and submitting it to Pete for a run in the Bugle? Also there is a gentleman in CO that may be interested in your project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 If you were to write up an article like that, I would also be interested in publishing it in the Torque Tube II, since the 36-38 Buick Club is open to all Straight 8 Buick years now. I suspect we would have a few members also interested in that subject. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pomeroy41144 Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 (edited) Matt Harwood: Check out this exhaust manifold on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331805679715?ul_noapp=true Auction ended I suppose. Edited April 2, 2016 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 $2500? Really? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1941-1942-buick-dual-carb-intake-and-exhaust-manifolds-carbs-air-cleaner-ser-70-/152167643217?hash=item236de5f851:g:qwQAAOSwAPlXh~pR&vxp=mtr I'll be deciding after Allentown if I'm keeping the Limited. If I do keep it, I think I'll have a set of tubular headers made for it. I'm tired of the noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I'm looking forward to seeing your car Matt. There's an original unrestored Model 90 here in Winnipeg. I owe you a lunch or brew or something for the pace car too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Theres a buch of us who owe Matt a beer for either helping us find or get rid of a car... Cant wait to meet you after all these years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) I think there would be much more demand for the intake/exhaust manifolds for the 248 cu in engine. Let me know if you want to use my original dual manifolds to fabricate the exhaust for that engine too. Edited July 19, 2016 by Mark Shaw (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-g-g0 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 On July 15, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Matt Harwood said: I'll be deciding after Allentown if I'm keeping the Limited. If I do keep it, I think I'll have a set of tubular headers made for it. I'm tired of the noise. Matt I have a 52 Roadmaster project planned for down the road and I too need an exhaust manifold. If per chance there is enough common ground between your '41 and my '52 exhaust manifold I would possibly be interested in a tubular set up. Might be cheaper by the dozen! Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Deamer Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Guys, I have a Buick Series 90 twin Stromberg Straight Eight engine which also suffers from the cracked exhaust manifold syndrome. I read the posts on this subject...did anyone get round to have tubular exhaust headers made for this engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlegKovalskyi Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 (edited) Цікавить? Edited August 16, 2021 by OlegKovalskyi (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Translation from Ukrainian, Цікавить?=Interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlegKovalskyi Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 14 годин тому Ларрі Шрамм сказав: Переклад з української , Цікавити? = Зацікавлене? Запропонуйте розумну ціну. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, OlegKovalskyi said: Запропонуйте розумну ціну. Offer a reasonable price.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlegKovalskyi Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 14 hours ago, Larry Schramm said: Переклад з української , Цікавити? = Зацікавлено? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlegKovalskyi Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 39 minutes ago, Bill Stoneberg said: Offer a reasonable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPilkie Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 Hi Bob here in Edmonton Alberta did you manage to get dual intake and exhaust manifolds made. I just saw this and it’s interesting. I have a good dual intake but no exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 On 12/13/2021 at 10:21 PM, BobPilkie said: Hi Bob here in Edmonton Alberta did you manage to get dual intake and exhaust manifolds made. I just saw this and it’s interesting. I have a good dual intake but no exhaust. I may have the exhaust manifolds for a 1941 large series engine. Will try to remember to look tomorrow. Remind me at pphillips922@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 For the 320 engines, 1941-1942. No cracks, but the butterfly valves are frozen and will need to be freed up. No cracks. VERY heavy. Pete Phillips, BCA #7338 Leonard, Texas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/13/2021 at 11:21 PM, BobPilkie said: Hi Bob here in Edmonton Alberta did you manage to get dual intake and exhaust manifolds made. I just saw this and it’s interesting. I have a good dual intake but no exhaust. The cost of having new manifolds cast and machined was just too great. I ended up making my own tubular exhaust manifolds instead and they work extremely well: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Jake Moran Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 I wonder if they improve flow and a modicum of horsepower ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 17 hours ago, B Jake Moran said: I wonder if they improve flow and a modicum of horsepower ? Jake, the ones from the factory in 1941 were enough to give the 320 engine 165 horsepower (with the twin carbs)--more than any other American mass-produced car that year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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