one tour car

[tcslr]

Reliability aside, if you could have one tour car that could be used on vintage, sentimental, founders, glidden and divisional AND reasonable run well on the founders, what would it be?

 

By reasonably I mean a solid 50mph car.

 

 

[61polara]

Select four of the five tours.  The problem is that the Vintage tour is 1931 and earlier and the Founders Tour is 1932 through the current AACA accepted year. Choose between these two tour and we can start giving you choices.  Buicks are good, reliable cars and should be high on your list.

[avantey]

First of all, who wants to tour at 50 mph?  I much prefer 25-30 in a brass touring car!  You talk to the people on the street, smell see, and hear what/where you are touring and generally have a lot of fun at slower speeds!  Even at 45 with the top down on the Model A we miss a lot of the culture we drive thru... 

 

As for your question I do not think any car can please all those different ranges of touring.  The Vintage, Sentimental, Glidden and Reliability are for the pre-war cars and generally make use of slower roads, shorter distances and easy for them days.  The Founders and some divisionals I think run longer faster tours for a much more modern car.  If you really want one car for all I guess cars right at the pre WII time might work if any would but even they can't meet all the age restrictions.

 

Since your signature shows two very capable pre war tour cars I think you may be looking for a Founders type car but want versatility?  But first slow down and enjoy the journey!!

[Guest AlCapone]

First of all, who wants to tour at 50 mph?  I much prefer 25-30 in a brass touring car!  You talk to the people on the street, smell see, and hear what/where you are touring and generally have a lot of fun at slower speeds!  Even at 45 with the top down on the Model A we miss a lot of the culture we drive thru... 

 

As for your question I do not think any car can please all those different ranges of touring.  The Vintage, Sentimental, Glidden and Reliability are for the pre-war cars and generally make use of slower roads, shorter distances and easy for them days.  The Founders and some divisionals I think run longer faster tours for a much more modern car.  If you really want one car for all I guess cars right at the pre WII time might work if any would but even they can't meet all the age restrictions.

 

Since your signature shows two very capable pre war tour cars I think you may be looking for a Founders type car but want versatility?  But first slow down and enjoy the journey!!

I could not agree with you more! Wayne

[John_S_in_Penna]

Select four of the five tours.  The problem is that the Vintage tour is 1931 and earlier and the Founders Tour is 1932 through the current AACA accepted year. Choose between these two tour and we can start giving you choices.  Buicks are good, reliable cars and should be high on your list.

 

Excellent point, and I agree with the people's responses above.

 

I found an old clipping in the files of the AACA Library:

Jordan, I believe it was, commissioned a survey circa 1927,

asking car owners what speeds they drove.  Most never

drove--ever--above 45 miles per hour, though they liked

a car to have reserve capacity for a burst of higher speed

if it was needed.

 

If you get a pre-war car whose comfortable maximum

is 45 miles per hour, why strain it all day going near or

above its maximum comfortable speed?

 

The whole point of grouping cars' years on tours

is so that more powerful, modern cars don't feel slowed down

by the oldest ones, and the early cars don't feel

rushed by all the modern cars on the tours.

Tell your wife that our answers give you the valid opportunity

to have two touring cars!

Edited October 27, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[RansomEli]

I would choose a 1930-31 Franklin.  

 

Wonderful cars to drive.

[Matt Harwood]

I agree that you should refine which tours you'd prefer to attend before making a choice. Personally, I think the sweet spot for old cars is 1932-1935 or so, because the cars were sufficiently sophisticated to be easy to handle, have decent brakes, and yet they still feel "old." Getting into the late 1930s and early '40s, while the cars were orders of magnitude more competent, they also feel quite modern in comparison. There's an ocean of difference between my 1929 Cadillac and my 1941 Cadillac 60 Special, with the '41 being as easy to drive as a modern car. It almost feels like cheating. I also had a 1932 Buick 90 Series that felt much more sophisticated than my '29 and a '34 Packard that was better still. Improvements were coming by leaps and bounds in the early '30s, so you can get a very capable car that still has an old-fashioned feel. Speeds, of course, are dependent on the model and year. My '29 cruises happily at 48 MPH or so without the overdrive and 55 MPH is no sweat with the overdrive. The '32 Buick didn't mind 60 MPH. The '41 cruises at 60-65 without breaking a sweat and will do so all day long. In fact, the reason you haven't seen the '41 for sale on my site or here on this forum is because I'm very strongly leaning towards keeping it for myself. It's a genuine pleasure to simply put the kids in back, turn the key, and go anywhere, any time, at any speed, and in any weather. Very hard to beat that.

 

So, despite me saying that the sweet spot is 32-35, if you want a car that will be welcome almost everywhere and has a no-compromises driving experience, my personal opinion is that a 1941 Cadillac with a Hydra-Matic is the best possible all-around tour car. In particular, the 60 Special has Full Classic status, relative rarity (about 4000 built), 4-door sedan practicality, handsome good looks, bulletproof engineering, plentiful and reasonably-priced parts, fantastic road manners, 3.36 gears, lots of interior space, big trunk, good brakes, etc., etc., etc. There are many who will disagree and have their own personal favorites, which is great, but if you want one old car that does just about everything well and doesn't cost a fortune, that would be my vote. It's like a decathlete: good at a lot of things even though it may not be the greatest at any single one.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Guest Roj]

Select four of the five tours.  The problem is that the Vintage tour is 1931 and earlier and the Founders Tour is 1932 through the current AACA accepted year. Choose between these two tour and we can start giving you choices.  Buicks are good, reliable cars and should be high on your list.

Buicks are very good for touring, finding one, well, you may need a little luck.

[tcslr]

My question really arises after using both our cars.  Personally I like the Chrysler better; my wife likes the Chevrolet better.  The more I drive one over the other - and they are very different - I think ' I like this one maybe better.'  That all said, I read about people doing solid 50 and 50+ in similar Chevys and think ' wow, mine is really a solid 40 car.'  The Chrysler is more like a solid 40-45 but Chrysler claimed it could go 75.  That seems crazy.  On a recent tour with many recent antiques ( 1980s), I just couldn't even keep up and then I wonder, 'what am I doing differently? or driving differently that I am not a 50pph performer?'  We'd start and most of the others were gone almost immediately.

 

I drove a 41 Cadillac and Matt is correct - it was awesome.  I read about some of the big cars handling highway speeds which doesn't sound real fun as the tours are best on the routes and slow.  I'd like another car but then think ' when would you drive it? having hard enough time driving the ones so far.'  I guess I wondered about two things: am I not 'pushing/driving' mine properly? ( that's the speed thing, I think)  and 2) if there really was just one car ( and there is no such thin as one size fits all) what would it be?

 

Add this final constraint - I think 28 to about 33 and maybe 34 are the prettiest cars ever.  with maybe 31 and 32 the best of the best.  I realize I am asking a very subjective and maybe unanswerable question but.... which one?

 

Tom

[Guest]

The installation of a Gearvendors overdrive will totally transform the cars that are straining at 45-55mph into cars that motor effortlessly along. 6 or 12 volt electrically actuated, nearly invisible, easily removable  (although I can't imagine anyone wanting to remove one, once they experience it).  Cheaper than acquiring another car, it makes your current ride a much better "all around" machine, while vastly increasing the lifespan of the drivetrain. Install one on your Chrysler or Chevy and you can "have your cake and eat it too" - the styling you love with "easy cruising" capability.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[avantey]

Sorry '31 Caddy but I am going to respectfully disagree with your suggestion of an overdrive.  There are a lot more components to safely and practically driving at faster speeds.  A 1932 car still has the suspension, tires/rims, frame and especially the braking system designed for lesser punishment.  Our rough roads, large volumes of unpredictable fellow drivers and the resultant need for emergency maneuvers have to be considered before you just drop in an overdrive for the sake of going faster easier.  The rest of the car also has to be able to handle it too and most people do not until they are panic braking from 70 mph and it is not working very well!  You are far better off driving a car totally designed for the conditions you want to drive.

 

Just my humble opinion,

[C Carl]

Exactly ! I like to keep my mid '20s Cadillacs under 40. They are exquisitely delightful at 25 - 35. I have had to push them harder on rare occasions. They both have stump puller rear ended ratios , which I love for hilly Portland and Seattle where they live. An overdrive would be an appreciated luxury at 35 , and if I had unlimited time and money , it would have been done by now. But not to extract more speed out of them. The cars were capable , in the context of the era , of holding somewhat higher speeds. But we all know that in their relative infancy , cars lacked the safety engineering and handling we 21st century folk take for granted. So prudent restraint trumps need for speed. 35 - 39 mph sure beat a horse back then , and the original owners of these cars likely would have lived over 1/2 their lives in horse drawn days when the cars were new ! By the way , I love the four wheel mechanical brakes on these cars. Particularly the rod actuated brakes on the '24. Very good brakes for the era , and sufficient for the velocities these cars should be driven. Safety first. Let's maintain good safety history , and resist getting legislated off the road. - Carl

[zeke01]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned an Airflow. !930's rock solid, factory overdrive, easy to find mechanical parts, the list goes on and on. The engine was situated over the front axle and the rear seat was placed ahead of the rear axle which makes for good handling and a comfortable ride. They are nice tour cars, especially the DeSotos. Zeke

[edinmass]

My 32 Pierce was built in November of 1931, thus it does quaility for all the tours, runs 70 mph on the highway bone stock, and is a joy to drive. The best of all worlds. Ed.

[Guest]

Sorry '31 Caddy but I am going to respectfully disagree with your suggestion of an overdrive.  There are a lot more components to safely and practically driving at faster speeds.  A 1932 car still has the suspension, tires/rims, frame and especially the braking system designed for lesser punishment.  Our rough roads, large volumes of unpredictable fellow drivers and the resultant need for emergency maneuvers have to be considered before you just drop in an overdrive for the sake of going faster easier.  The rest of the car also has to be able to handle it too and most people do not until they are panic braking from 70 mph and it is not working very well!  You are far better off driving a car totally designed for the conditions you want to drive.

 

Just my humble opinion,

I respect your opinion, and in fact agree with your post, but I believe that you ( and Mr. Carl) are totally missing the point. The purpose of installing the overdrive is not  to drive 70 mph, although it certainly makes higher speeds than that attainable. The true benefit is that at reasonable speeds, say 45-55mph, the reduced RPM makes the car a totally different car. It is much quieter, and engine longevity is greatly increased. I speak from experience. I previously started a topic detailing the installation of an overdrive in my Cadillac. At 45mph before, it was screaming, and was not fun to drive. I felt I was abusing it. Not so with the overdrive, and the stock rear gears are still there for big hills. In a nutshell, 45-50 mph IN overdrive is TOTALLY different from 45 -50 mph OUT of overdrive.

  As a side note - my 37 Cord 812 has factory overdrive and easily cruises at 70mph, but I recognize that it has somewhat better brakes and suspension than the Cadillac. It's not the gun that kills people.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[C Carl]

Whoa there 31 ! I have not missed the point at all ! Carefully read , you will see that I AGREE with you ! No , notice that I said if I had the luxury of being able to O.D. my two '20s Kittys , it would have been done by now. You bet it would have ! Exactly to be able to LOAF along at the normal speeds I drive hour after hour , reducing wear factor generated by my venerable low geared 'Lacs. No , indeed ! Best of all worlds , certainly. You will see I am just reinforcing the safety admonitions without implying that you personally are reckless. Not to mention the ability to hold higher speeds for short distances in rare traffic circumstances where safety mandates you do so. Yes , you , my fellow old Cadillac cruiser , and I are on the same wavelength here. I simply took advantage of an opportunity to testify in my way for leisurly driving of ancient iron.

As a peace offering , may I offer suggested reading ? For you and all who might apreciate a new safety tip. On a thread regarding tire size , on the pre-war Buick forum , I have explained a remarkable technique I learned a couple of weeks ago. I took a day long safe driving course out at the racetrack. I learned something so important that it should be sent out to all licensed drivers. You will find a new (seems some young drivers know this , but most oldsters don't) , safer way to adjust blind spots out of rear view mirror adjustment. You will find it towards the end of a long dissertation , most of which may be ignored as irrelevant. But the mirror adjustment trick may save lives. Let me know how it works for you after you get used to it. - CC

[Joe in Canada]

I had 4.75 gears in my 1930 Cadillac and the engine would be screaming at 45 MPH. I put in a set of 3.60 gears and my revs are way down now with top end at 50 MPH and not killing the engine. I think I would have gone to a Gear Vender if I had known they were available at the time then I would have had the best of both worlds.

I have a friend that put his engine out late last year in a 1930 Cadillac trying to keep up with the newer cars on a one week tour around the Georgian Bay area. Now looking at a $15,000. repair bill from running with 5  to 1 gears + he is having a Gear Vender installed. Car has been in the shop now over a year now another horror story.   

[avantey]

I guess I missed your point too '31 Caddy and I commend you for using OD sensibly.  However in the original vein of this thread I took your suggestion as a way to drive an older car faster and therefore keep up with the crowd on 'faster/farther' tours like a Founders and that seemed a bad solution to me.  I also still have reservations about 1932 Chevy brakes stopping fast from 55 or so (as an example from the original post).  Hell, even my '38 Buick is a load to handle doing that and needs extra distance!

 

And I do like edinmass's solution- great car, very capable, maybe not affordable for everyone.  In fact there is a whole group of early '30's big cars that can cruise like that but may be out of reach for most collectors. And they were designed to do it from day one, the height of automotive engineering in that period! 

 

So edinmass- Can I borrow your Pierce?  It would be a great day (great tour, great car, great road) on the Glidden next September to cruise the NH Kancamongus Highway with that kind of class!

 

Not trying to fight, just MHO,

[Guest]

My feathers aren't ruffled, lol. I have enjoyed all of the posts, and the points made are well taken. I also did not intend to turn the OP's topic into a discussion of the merits of installing an overdrive. It was just that one of his posts left me with the impression that he really likes the styling, etc of his current rides, but felt that he was pushing them too hard to run say, 50 mph. I see the overdrive as an economical (compared to another car) solution to his situation - a solution that would allow him to get more enjoyment out of his current cars while extending their life at the same time. As Joe in Canada alluded to, the Gearvendors ( while relatively expensive up front) pays for itself many times over if one drives the car much.

 Heck, the OP probably wants another car anyway - and what's wrong with that?       (Nothing of course!)

Edited October 28, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[Paul Dobbin]

We just returned form our 39th National Tour, the 2015 Founders Tour.  A great tour, but there were six 1990ish Buick Reattas and several Model A Fords, a 31 Buick and lots of 50's 60's 70's & 80's cars.  We talked about taking our Grocery store parking lot variety car, a 1981 El Camino, but thought it was to new at only age 34.  Rather than take our mid 30's Fords or the 35 Buick, we took a 66 VW Bug, age 49. It could keep up on the back roads and was a ball to drive, but I'm glad we didn't go in an 80 year old car,

Even on the Sentimental Tours (1928-1958) guys tend to bring the newer stuff.  When we do those in our 34 Ford, we're among the oldies..  Therefore we do all the tours at our own pace and don't try to win the race to the donut stops. 
On these tours we stop for photo opportunities, junk stores, antique shops and to talk to the locals who sit on the porch to see the antique cars go by.  It seems we always log more miles than the tour offers and we're almost always the last one in at night.  That's what we go on tours for, to enjoy it, not set a speed record.

For both of your cars, the Glidden Tour is the ticket and for the 29, the Heritage Tour when they take cars up to 1931.  Some of the oldest cars on the tours start earlier, just to avoid the need for speed.  We think enjoyment should be the goal.

[Joe in Canada]

We have booked a room for our first Glidden tour in 2016 and looking forward to it. Did the Buzzards Breath Vintage Tour in Pa. this past summer with the pre 1931 cars and it was a blast driving the very different landscape. In 2016 I know of two vintage tours one in the Belleville Ont. area and one in the Smith Falls area that are weekend tours that are open to anyone with a pre 1942 car as long as you are a member of a recognised car club. I know of five cars that came from AACA that left their phone numbers to be called for future tours.

[Marty Roth]

Our '37 Roadmaster convertible sedan and '41 Cadillac cabriolet will cover every type of tour other than the AACA Vintage or VMCCA Nickel Tours - and that is where the '15 Hudson 6-40 Touring and '30 Packard 733 Touring will satisfy requirements. Of course we enjoy having the '54 & '70 Caddy convertibles, as well as the open '65 Corvair Monza, '88 'Vette, and '88 BMW 528e for more modern touring, and to be able to drive cross-country to the tour instead of trailering. 

 

I agree with Avantey, in that cruising / touring the back roads at reasonable speeds is the most gratifying, and concur that moderate speeds in our '30 Packard are more enjoyable when the 5.08:1 differential is lulled by the 30% overdrive which makes it the equivalent of a 3.556:1 final drive. Out of overdrive, and utilizing the "Granny" 1st gear, we could probably climb the pyramids sides at Chichen-Itza. 

 

One substantial benefit of the '37 Roadmaster or the '41 Cadillac is that they can actually be driven cross-country on the major highways, keeping up with "reasonable" traffic - NO, we will not be pushing 70 mph, even though the cars are capable of even higher speeds. We respect the cars and want to keep them for our grandson to enjoy many years from now.

 

If I could keep only 3 of my cars, my choice would probably be narrowed to the '30 Packard 733 7-Passenger Touring, the '37 Buick 80C Roadmaster Phaeton (convertible sedan), and the '41 Cadillac Cabriolet (convertible coupe), and if allowed a 4th, then I would have to keep the Brass-Era '15 Hudson 6-40, but still want to own a 1915 Cadillac Touring.

 

Any great driver-quality '15 Caddy out there at an affordable price?

[bill pritchett]

Marty,

For the '15, just go down to the local Cadillac dealer as they are still having clearance sales.

[Joe in Canada]

Well Bill you are a little bit off on Cadillac sales seeing the Cadillac SRX sales were up 85%. When you develop a car for a younger market as Cadillac has for the past few of years you will not see too many sales. Cadillac is getting away from the old man market to a more broader market aimed at the younger generation not just the baby boomers. Good to see an American brand name doing well in todays economy. But then if you are correct I will take two of them.