Another one probably lost to the TV craze, just my luck

[auburnseeker]

As most know, and my ID suggests, I have been searching for an Auburn off and on as finances and cars came and go in my collection.  I recently discovered a car, the exact style I was looking for, in "barn find" condition, that the seller thought could be saved and not restored as is.  Perfect to make a driver out of and just bring back to life.

The seller is asking 30,000.  The car, an 8 cylinder convt. sedan, hasn't run since '73, but atleast isn't seized.  I still haven't seen any photos but here are the emails and replies I received.  Seems the popular TV show will win out, as a working man, I have a limited budget.  How common is it for people to offer more than the asking price?  Is society really getting this stupid?  I thought that only happened on the fake reality real estate shows.  

  They said asking 30,000.  They didn't say all offers over 30 considered or we'll entertain offers over 30,000, or best offer over 30,000 wins it.

  It seems I might have already offended the seller with my questioning the offers?  

  With shipping I would be into the car for nearly 40,000 as it is at this point.  Starting to exceed my budget especially since that motor may be blown or Freeze cracked and need to be completely rebuilt/ replaced

  Below is a rundown of the discourse. 

 

. "Hello. The Auburn is still available, I do have three offers so far but I have not accepted any yet. One offer is from a popular TV show on discovery. I can send you pitcures when I get home today. The best offer so far is 36k. so if you are interested, please call me"

 

  "I would still like to see pictures and I am interested but odd anyone with half a brain offers more than an asking price.  Not to say I wouldn't offer more for the right car but in all reality it's not an asking price but an opening offer, for a top offer wins it type of sale. (kind of like an auction without the sellers premium)  I am a serious buyer.  I have a very similar 810 Cord phaeton that was parked in 1974 in California.  I added a photo of below.  If the photos show what I want to see.  I'll give you a call.  No sense in wasting your time if it's a car I'm not interested  in.  Thanks for your help,  Randy"

 

  "Im not really interested in all of your analysis on the price. The market sets the price regardless of what Im asking.  The car is not running and hasn’t run since late 60s. the condition is not comparable to your picture, so ifs that’s what your expecting , you will  probably be disappointed. It needs the seats redone and the top redone. I will send you the pics"

 

 

I wonder if that top offer really does end up materializing?

I did send him a picture of my cord just to show I'm potentially a serious buyer and to show him a car I purchased in what sounded like similar condition including the length of storage it was in and current non op status. (I just thought it might give me some credibility as there are so many scams and phony people on the net.  That's what his reference is to.  

 

 

 

 

[capngrog]

Where and on what medium was this car advertised?  Was it a print ad or online?  Was it advertised on a reputable site?

 

This sounds like a scam to me.  No pictures and no set price raise red flags to me, unless it's a legitimate auction on ebay or another auction site.

 

"The market sets the price regardless of what Im (sic) asking."  That's an interesting philosophy when it involves the sale of an item at a set "asking price".  The seller's "asking price" sounds to me more like an opening bid/reserve in an auction, rather than a real sales price.

 

Has the seller let you know where the car is located so that you can inspect it?

 

You might be able to have some fun with this, but I'd hold on to my wallet/checkbook very, very tightly!

 

Let us know how this develops.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[alsancle]

1.  Guy is a jerk.  Your point is valid.

 

2.   Without seeing the car in person or getting 100 hi-res photos you really don't know what you are dealing with.

 

3.   Cars are always worse than described.   Then they are worse than your impression when you look at them in person.  They are always worse!

 

4.  There is always another car.

[auburnseeker]

It's actually advertised on the ACD site by a Newbie who is representing the owner which I'm assuming is elderly as they have owned the car for several decades. He is suppose to be sending me photos.  I'll post them here when he does.

 I'm probably out of the picture anyways from the sounds of it.

 The car is in Nevada if I remember correctly.  I didn't get an exact town but it doesn't seem like a scam as he posted engine and body numbers and originally went on that site trying to figure out what it might be worth for the owner.  He also gave his number to call him,  which I told him was pointless until I saw the photos.  

Photos (especially detailed ones) are alot easier to believe than word of mouth description based on opinion.

[auburnseeker]

I just received some photos of the car.  They were very generous with the quality and quantity. I couldn't figure out how to load the originals from my email to here, so I rephotographed them off my screen but only a couple were clear to begin with.  Seems my offer also has to be 40,000 to get it so that's 42,500 to my door with shipping before i pay teh sales tax of 2800 so I'll be into the car for 45,000 before I actually do anything to it. .  I think I will hold out.  This boy wasn't born yesterday and that top frame looks like a mess and all the chrome seems beyond whopped. 

I think there are going to be alot of issues once you open this can of worms.  For under or right at 30,000,  maybe. 

[Guest AlCapone]

I truly believe the seller is a con artist and it smells like a scam ! Don't waste your time with this type of seller. Only a fool plays this type of game ! Wayne

[Frantz]

Sounds like you're out of the game, but you could try googling the numbers he gave you and see if they are listed elsewhere. See if you can find online newspapers from the area. Maybe the old timer is only advertising on print and this guy is sneaking in as middle man. If you find an origional ad, it might be had for a more reasonable price. Just an idea, I'm unsure how valid it is.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Even if the car is legitimate, the agent seems

arrogant.  That alone would turn me away.

And Auburns aren't as uncommon as you would

think.  In fact, almost every Auburn car I see for sale

is an open car--where are all the rumble-seat coupes,

victoria coupes, and Auburn sedans?

 

I think sometimes when less-than-honorable sellers

say they have another offer, they are making it up,

just to try to push your offer higher.  Two experiences

of mine lead me to believe that sometimes happens.

 

And since the middleman isn't good to deal with,

you might call some Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg contacts

if you really wanted the car, since someone active in the

ACD world would know who the owner is, and how to reach him.

The real owner would be likely to know the car intimately and,

one hopes, be able to give you more facts than the middleman could.

And I bet the owner is much friendlier and more straightforward

than the middleman! 

Edited July 23, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Guest AlCapone]

Call him and ask for an address. Get someone from this site to have a look see for you! You might have to buy him a case of suds but it would be worth it ! Wayne

[jeff_a]

This may not fit your requirements, but it is an Auburn:

 

Someone is selling off a collection of a hundred things...doesn't even say what country he lives in...but the top of the list has a "1927 Auburn 6-66 Sedan, high-end restored...$45,000". In addition, it says: "prices as listed or best offer, all reasonable offers considered...TITAN MOTOR CAR COMPANY, Inc....352-529-0233 (ask for Angela)...cypresscreekranch@msn.com...Liquidation Sale, One Owner, Massive Collection."

 

Includes 5 Jaguars, 6 Mercedes, 7 car trailers, 12 Cadillacs, a Buick Reatta, and a Yugo.

 

Classic Autos & Parts, July 2015, pp 6 & 7

Edited July 23, 2015 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

I agree with the comments posted.  I think it's a legit car.  The middle man seems like a,  umm we wont go their.  I know I have seen several Auburns for Sale.  I also believe the convertible sedan is a little less desirable than other configurations like a Convertible coupe.  I have in the last 3 years seen 2 convertible sedans in the 65,000 range that were worlds ahead of this car in condition.  One of the users here had one for sale apart but lots of extremely high quality work done and very close to being finished.   I like original cars but I also doubt the finish is even original on this car.  It appears to be failing quite badly on the one side and I see visible rust where it's missing.

We'll keep looking.  

[auburnseeker]

Thanks for the lead.  That's a little older than I want to go in an Auburn and I really want to go open unless just the right coupe came along.  A  2 door town coupe /victoria style is quite attractive though so I wouldn't rule that out if the deal was right.   I know 20's cars are quite a bit cheaper than 30's cars when it comes to Auburns.  There was one batted around in the Auburn section here,  an early 20's 4 door convertible probably 3 hours from me that might come up for sale that I would persue if I get the hankering for a 20's car.  I like the early 30's styling better though.  

[auburnseeker]

Here is the original ad on the ACD site.  So they are willing to take 30,000 why didn't it sell for that to the first guy???  

Sorry about the highlight.  I'm not sure why it's highlighted or how to fix it. 

I now have a lot more info on this car. It has been in this family since 1950. there are pitcures of the owner with the car taken in 1966. the car was in original condition in that pitcure. The car was parked in working order in in 1973, it has not run since. It survived a move from California to utah in 1975 approx. and parked in a dirt floor garage. It is still sitting there now. The car would be a good candidate for a survivor car in my opinion. I would not restore it completely. the engine turns over. There is also a spare 2 speed rear differential and a spare transmission, I am still going through parts and as I find out more about this car, I am finding more spare parts. there is quite a bit of literature that relates to this car that has been found in boxes surrounding the car. We are looking to sell this car to someone who would appreciate a car that has survived the ages. We are willing to take 30.000.00 or the car, and taking offers on the spare parts.

[Rusty_OToole]

I would politely inform the seller that I can't go over $30,000 but if it doesn't sell to get in touch with me. He may call, you never know your luck.

 

If he gets back to you tell him unfortunately you bought another car and all you can afford is $25,000. If he is interested, go see the car yourself, be sure all the parts, accessories, etc are with it and negotiate your best price.

 

I have actually bought cars this way. It doesn't work very often, and have never tried it with an Auburn but it does work. I refuse to get involved in these kinds of auctions.

[nick8086]

Call him and ask for an address. Get someone from this site to have a look see for you! You might have to buy him a case of suds but it would be worth it ! Wayne

 

 

or a road  trip... The price is between the buy and seller... My two cents...

[Joe Cocuzza]

It appears to me that this "middleman" is just trying to line his pockets with as much cash as possible.

The ad says the owners would accept $30K or B/O

So this guy bumps up the price as far as he can get it to go, tells the owners he got around $30K and then keeps the rest.

This gives dealers and brokers a bad rep. (BTW - I am not a dealer or broker)

[trimacar]

Seller, or middle man, in very bad form.  He stated an acceptable price, and now his meaning of "or best offer" means above that price, not below.  Very poor sales technique when it comes to automobiles, sure to get prospective buyers PO'd......

[Curti]

1.  Guy is a jerk.  Your point is valid.

 

2.   Without seeing the car in person or getting 100 hi-res photos you really don't know what you are dealing with.

 

3.   Cars are always worse than described.   Then they are worse than your impression when you look at them in person.  They are always worse!

 

4.  There is always another car.

AJ has it right.

This is the thread update on the ACD website.  This is BS !

Re: Barn Find Auburn 8-100

•  

by winny61 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:49 pm

It seems the interest for this car is increasing. I am getting offers above 30k. It now stands at 36k

[alsancle]

 

AJ has it right.

This is the thread update on the ACD website.  This is BS !

Re: Barn Find Auburn 8-100

•  

by winny61 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:49 pm

It seems the interest for this car is increasing. I am getting offers above 30k. It now stands at 36k

 

 

Yeah,  a stopped clock is right twice a day!

 

I needed to change the word I was using to describe the guy a few times before I settled on "jerk".    He obviously thinks he has a Model J on his hands.  

 

If those are the pictures he sent you I would run away at warp speed.    If he wants to sell a car he needs to get  a camera that takes higher resolution pictures than a crayon drawing.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Agree with the general consensus agent or "friend" is a fool, likely not experienced with this type of transaction. That said he lists his phone number in the first post. Sometimes it is easier to conduct ones self in the manner he seems to be doing in the less personal world of email or pm. Why not make a call to see if you can learn a bit more, you might be the first to actually do that. His attitude could change if he realized a serious buyer wants to discuss in detail. A serious seller should welcome that. Plus it's harder for most people to be a complete ___hole in person vs. On a computer.

[Rusty_OToole]

I don't see why a seller wouldn't accept the highest offer. Or best offer does not exclude the possibility of higher offers. I would like to see you guys turn down $42000 or even $36000 on the grounds that you advertized it at $30000. Maybe the seller made a mistake and underpriced the item.

[auburnseeker]

Wouldn't the first buyer have bought it for 30,000 and it be a done deal at this point? I've never seen a car in a paper for sale and called the seller saying well I don't care what the paper says and that you have it sold, but I'm willing to pay you more than the other guy that you agreed to the price with.  (that's completely unethical of the seller)

I know I did sell a car once in Hemmings to a guy overseas and we made a deal on it for  just a little less than the asking price.  He was the first caller but we made the deal right their. I had several other people want the same car.  I gave the guy my word and he sent me a cashiers check for the deposit just like he said in a very reasonable time, then had a shipper pick it up the next month and pay the balance.  This was before all the scams. 

I politely took the names and numbers down of all the other parties interested but didn't consider selling it to them unless the payment didn't materialize or the buyer backed out.  

I guess we have lost a bit over the years as a guys hand shake or word made the deal.

It will be interesting to see if this car comes back up for sale in a year still owned by the same owner having never sold.  Once you burn a bunch of people the entire deal goes south.  As mentioned it's not a Duessy or Ferrari.

 

One last thing bothers me about the whole deal.  The car ran fine when put away in 73.  Then it was moved across a few states in 75 but not ran then.  One has to wonder why they didn't drive it around when they moved it.  It's easier to drive it onto a trailer and into a building than push it usually and that's a short enough time it shouldn't have developed a major problem from sitting.  Even if the battery was bad.  There were alot of 6 volt batteries floating around in service still in 1975 that you could have borrowed one to move it. Just a little red flag that makes one ponder why it was really parked. 

 

 

I also noticed that he told me that I would have to give him 40,000 to buy the car but that right now the high offer on the car is 36,000.  That's an awful big "bid" increment on this phantom auction LOL

 

I think I'll use that money to build a bigger better garage so my cars don't look like his in 40 years.

Edited July 23, 2015 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[Guest AlCapone]

Put this one to bed. The seller is getting far more exposure than he deserves. Everyone knows by now that it is a scam ! Wayne

[capngrog]

Auburnseeker,

 

You "hit the nail on the head" with your analysis of this particular seller.  A deal is a deal ... unless one party to the deal is scammer scum!

 

Just the way I feel about the deal,

Grog

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I feel bad for seller especially if they are putting trust in the agent "friend" who is not really helping at all. Oh, the TV guy, well nice guy but known to many CT locals. He doesn't overpay for anything. :-) . That's probably a line of BS,if you can imagine that from the agent...

[alsancle]

When a dealer, well known or otherwise pays top dollar for a car (especially a crap box like the subject of this thread) it probably means he won't be a dealer much longer.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Indeed, A.J. I also think that the ideal find for these guys falls into one of two categories, an ultra desirable car regardless of condition, probably less than 1% of the sleeping iron, or a nice original or older restoration needing very little to wake up. Maybe 10% fit that bill. Mostly you see heavy project cars, a car parked due to a major mechanical issue or a parts car. Tracking these and turning them I think is a lot less romantic when you're feeding your family on the proceeds. I think the agent seeker is up against thinks he struck gold vs. Some salable coal.

[auburnseeker]

I could be wrong but I think he has overplayed his hand.  I'll wait and see if it ever comes to market under normal sale conditions. 

[Matt Harwood]

My gut says it's a negotiating ploy. I do this quite a bit and whenever a guy says he has other offers, my reply is always, "OK, call me when they fall through." In many cases, I'll get a call the next day.as he realizes that I'm not going to offer more to desperately lure it away from the other buyers and that he has over-played his hand. I've also heard the "TV guy" line before, as if Wayne Carini is out there buying up every piece of crap barn find (these are the same dopes who inevitably tell me I should sell all my cars to Jay Leno).

 

Leave your number and walk away. If he calls back, great, now you're in the driver's seat for negotiations. If not, consider it a bullet dodged because the negotiations are only the first part of the drama sellers like this will bring into your life. I'd expect a missing title, missing parts, a family member showing up who doesn't want to sell, the car isn't what everyone thought it was, something like that. This has a stink on it.

[alsancle]

It is absolutely an IQ test (and failing grade) when someone says  "Jay Leno would buy that" in seriousness.   I'm sure Jay is a great guy, but does anybody here that knows anything seriously believe Jay ever paid retail for a single car?   He has access to cars that are not for sale simply so people can say they sold their car to Jay.    Btw,  Bill Harrah was the same way,  never paid retail for a single car.

[Curti]

The ad has been deleted from the ACD website. 

[auburnseeker]

I just checked out of curiosity and it still shows up on my screen.  My post questioning the seller's price and motive was deleted by the moderator even though I tried to make it more matter of fact inquiry than accusational, as was the posters comment that the discovery channel was willing to pay 36000 for it and anyone interested would have to outbid them. 

[auburnseeker]

Actually Curti is half right.  They moved it to the for sale section.  Probably where it should have been moved as soon as the representative started making it into a for sale thread.

[ScarredKnightfan]

Even if the car is legitimate, the agent seems

arrogant.  That alone would turn me away.

 

Same here.  Arrogant & playing games.  Not a good combo.

 

Sorry, auburnseeker.

 

 

Cort www.oldcarsstronghearts.com

1979 & 1989 Caprice Classics | pigValve, paceMaker, cowValve

"Action speaks louder than words" __ Black Crowes __ 'Hard To Handle'

[Curti]

Actually Curti is half right.  They moved it to the for sale section.  Probably where it should have been moved as soon as the representative started making it into a for sale thread.

Many times I am dense, but I don't find a general for sale forum on the ACD website.  There is a miscellaneous, which the subject ad does not appear. 

[alsancle]

Curt,  go all the way to the bottom of the forum home page: ACD Flea Market & Buy/Sell Area.

 

http://acdclub.org/forums/11/7448

[auburnseeker]

It took a while for me to figure out the new ACD site as well.  Then I was wondering if it was working as there were no new posts in the Auburn or Cord sections for quite a while.  In fact I stopped visiting it for a while then when I did I got involved with this whole deal. 

Edited July 24, 2015 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[Curti]

Curt,  go all the way to the bottom of the forum home page: ACD Flea Market & Buy/Sell Area.

 

http://acdclub.org/forums/11/7448

Thanks AJ !  It seems a bit counter intuitive, however ........................................

[CarNucopia]

3. Cars are always worse than described. Then they are worse than your impression when you look at them in person. They are always worse!

I've got to give a big +1 on this.

I've been in a similar quest, though for a '37 - '38 Buick. My first step is always to speak with the seller on the phone. I believe I can get a better sense of the person that way. I also don't push on the price unless I am ready to buy. It can create a tension early on that makes it harder to deal.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Buick64C (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Agree with Buick's approach on price. I wouldn't pursue a car that's priced out of my range and figure price should be hashed out once you have been able to assess the car and determine what its worth to you. Issue here is seller should choose an auction setting vs. Advertising at a set price and changing it. We haven't specificily mentioned shills but that is another reason auctioneers are licensed, there is a process for that approach.