The Ressurection of Daphne - a 1932 DL

[Spinneyhill]

I looked at Rare Parts electronic catalog on ShowMeTheParts. Dodge is not even in the list of makes for 1930-1932!

[ply33]

12 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

I looked at Rare Parts electronic catalog on ShowMeTheParts. Dodge is not even in the list of makes for 1930-1932!

 

I'd give them a call then. I've noticed things are hard to find and sometime miss classified on their web site.

 

But since you are in New Zealand, maybe an email would be easier. I don't know how well the deal with email as I've only ever made purchases over the phone with them even though I met the proprietors at a couple of antique car shows when I lived in the San Francisco Bay area.

[Taylormade]

I looked over the pitman arm and the drag link today and the news is not good.  The ball on the pitman arm is of the cast on type and is not replaceable.  As you can see, it has some flat spots and it sure isn't the good old perfect sphere it used to be.

 

 

 

 

I have heard a new ball can be welded on by turning the old, worn ball down to a shaft on a lathe and then inserting a bored ball onto the shaft and welding it on.  Some have also suggested that the ball can be build up by adding metal to the worn areas and then turning the ball to the correct dimensions.  Anyone have any experience with this who could recommend someone who knows what they're doing in this area?  This is one operation that has to be right - failure is not an option, especially at 45 miles per hour.

 

The drag link doesn't look much better.  The keyways are worn pretty badly.  I have a rebuild kit with all new balls, springs and cups, but that doesn't help the worn keyways.

 

 

 

I have heard that you can take an available Chevy draglink and cut off the ends of both draglinks and weld the ends of the Chevy link to the shaft of the original Dodge drag link.  The smaller diameter of the Chevy link fits into the Dodge drag link section and with a good weld should be okay.  Bummer day of disappointing discoveries, but I have all winter to deal with it if necessary.  If anyone has a line on these parts in better condition, let me know.

 

I suppose some will recommend Rare Parts, and I'm sure they could make them, but I'm figuring the cost would be astronomical based on some other quotes I've gotten from them.

 

[keiser31]

A buddy of mine just got some 1931 DB (I know....'32 may be different) parts from Rare Parts that were not in their catalog. He had to call them and they had everything he needed.

Edited August 21, 2016 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[jpage]

I would imagine that a good welder could weld up the edges of the keyways and you could grind them into shape with a die grinder. A good welder and machine shop could also weld up the ball and shaft and turn them back down. I think that the balls were hardened so you'll need a welder experienced in harder metals and a shop the could turn them. They do make replacement balls for Model "A's" that might work if the size is correct but might take a little fitting.

[Spinneyhill]

I have the same problems with my DC drag link.

 

It looks like the holes and slot in the drag link ends are formed by drilling holes in the tube. As well as the holes being enlarged, the inside walls near them are also worn so the wall thickness is reduced.

 

My link body makes a "rust flowing" noise when I tip it from one end up to the other end up. Thus it is a tube and the ends are either forged into the tube or welded on. The inside spring seats must be welded in somehow.

 

I am about to pull off the steering arm. I suspect yours might be damaged with the ball bent up too far. Are the holes in the drag link body set 90 degrees apart? Mine are. I would expect them to be: the link provides for the transfer of movement on a vertical into a nearly horizontal plane. Maybe Phil K can crawl under his car for a look!

 

My plan is to take the link and steering arm to a good engineering shop and pick their brains. I might need to visit more than one shop! The best shop I know is 1.75 hours drive away but there are several in this town.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Bullfrog_eng]

Some years ago I had the steering arm for my DA repaired by Javco Engineering in Mulgrave (Melbourne, Australia). I understand the bloke who owned the business is long departed but not sure if anyone took over from him, anyone in Melbourne know?

Anyway, what he did was turn down the arm to a taper then machine a ball of correct size and to fit the taper. After he hardened the ball he silver soldered the ball to the arm. He used silver solder so that he could minimise the heat so not to destroy the hardening. He also turned up some cups to suit the ball, for the drag link, and hardened them as well. Now I can't say personally how successful this is, as my DA is not on the road yet, but I spoke to a mate only last week who had his DA arm repaired many years ago by the same bloke. He has now done many, many miles in his DA with no problems. The point of this post is simply to explain the method that was used. I am sure that other engineers may well use a similar method, the trick will be to find them!!!

John

[Spinneyhill]

John, what did you do to the drag link body? Was it worn inside as well as the holes enlarged?

 

My steering arm is bent to a right angle just above the ball. The wear pattern is odd though: there is a little undercutting into the shaft just above the ball and the ball has a wear flat on the bottom (i.e. when on the car)! Now there is a puzzle.

[Bullfrog_eng]

The hole was enlarged and I just welded that up myself, but it was not too bad really. Inside it was pretty good and I did not have to do anything to it but I seem to remember I had another "spare" that was badly worn on the bottom, to the extent that it wore a hole in the bottom of the drag link. Don't think the previous owner knew what grease was, though.

John

[Taylormade]

Time to put the gas tank in.  I was lucky in that my tank straps were in excellent condition.  A good cleaning - mostly old undercoating - and a fresh coat of paint and they are ready to go.  I just have to get some welt/padding on the inside of the straps.

 

 

I bought this gas tank from Larry Yirga at Hershey a few years ago.  It was already cleaned and lined.  The bottom plug actually unscrews (been there before and about tore off the bottom of the tank trying to get it off) so I'm very pleased not to have to deal with this part of the restoration.

 

 

 

 

 

[Taylormade]

Not much visually, but I got the gas tank in this morning.  You can just see it peeking out under the rear frame beneath all those holes.  Almost looks like a hot rod job with all those lightening holes, but that's factory 1932.

 

 

 

At this point, all I have left is my splash pans which are supposed to be back from Ed, my fabricator next week.  The steering column will go on after I drop the body back on.  I plan to get a battery Monday and give the motor a try.  I HopeIi get lucky..

[Spinneyhill]

Is it worth checking you have electricity continuity between gas tank and chassis? My DC has it through the fuel line, which I expect is not right.You need this for the sender to work.

[Taylormade]

Good point.  I found someone had run a ground wire from the tank to the frame sometime in the past.  The tank is isolated from the frame by webbing.

[Spinneyhill]

It just occurred to me that your car had an electric fuel pump and you said you intend to reinstate that. That might mean there is a section of rubber hose in the fuel line, hence no electrical continuity. Hence the earth strap on the tank. A fuel filter would have the same result.

[Phil 32DL6]

If the sender wasn't grounded properly, that might explain why the gas gauge never worked for either of us.

[Taylormade]

It may moved 45 years ago, but the sending unit arm is currently frozen solid.  I'm debating having it rebuilt (if possible) or buying one of the repo units that show up on EBay.  I'd prefer the former for the original look.

[jpage]

Check out KM Lifestyle Mfg. they sell several types of fuel senders for older cars at reasonable prices. They have a website or ph. 508-792-9500

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Just a quick question for you. Have you thought about when you'll feed the wiring harness around. I know when I did my car I fed it all through the chassis etc before I put the body on only to find that when I did put the body on I actually had to refeed it twice from the firewall as the thick end wouldn't fit once everything was bolted up ( and that included the fuel gauge sender wire ). Yours might be different.

[Taylormade]

18 minutes ago, Ian_Greenlaw said:

Just a quick question for you. Have you thought about when you'll feed the wiring harness around. I know when I did my car I fed it all through the chassis etc before I put the body on only to find that when I did put the body on I actually had to refeed it twice from the firewall as the thick end wouldn't fit once everything was bolted up ( and that included the fuel gauge sender wire ). Yours might be different.

 

Well, that's a good question.  I got my harness from Rhode Island Wiring.  It fits the frame perfectly, but I don't have the body on yet so I can't tell.  One section comes off the harness by the master cylinder and runs up the firewall and through a hole into the area behind the dash.  Is that the problem area on your car?

[Johnthistle]

Re: the frozen gas gauge, my '31 DH arm and gears were frozen also, but amazingly they loosened up with soaking in rust remover (NoRust, I think) and now it  works perfectly installed! 

Installing the wiring harness does look like it has to start forward of the firewall since the "knot" is too large to pass through. I forgot @ the firewall pad inside; going to cut a slice in it to fit over wiring!

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Originally I attached the fuel sender wire as there was no chance I could do it once the body went on. I then fed it around and curled it up near the master cylinder ( right hand side on mine ). I figured all I had to do was refeed it once the body went on.....easy....what could go wrong ???  You've heard this before. Eventually once the body was on, I had to cut the fuel sender wire, feed the wires from the firewall around to the where the fuel sender wire is and rejoin. Not my idea of fun soldering near a fuel tank. Getting the wires up to the headlights etc... was also a pain and I wished I'd thought about it a bit more but I got excited to get the body on. If I was in your situation I'd sit down and plan where every wire is going so that once the body is on you just connect things up and not worry about feeding it through the chassis etc..becoming a pretzel again !

[Taylormade]

I'm not sure about your car, but on mine, with the body on, I still have almost full access to the frame.  My body has no floors other than the steel pan under the back seat cushion.  My wood floors go back on after the body is attached.  I still intend to run all the wires in the frame before the body goes on, which would leave me only the one section that comes off the main loom, runs up the firewall and through a hole into the area under the dash.  I took a lot of photos of my frame and I was lucky that all the wiring clips were still attached.  It's made it simple to run the wires - at least so far.

[Taylormade]

I'm getting close to the initial start-up of the motor.  Just need to finish getting the wiring in place.  I discovered that neither of the battery cables were original or correct.  I've been working with Rhode Island Wiring to get this sorted out.  They had no original information on 32 DL cables, once again revealing the rarity of these cars.  Using the Instruction Book diagrams and a little common sense, we think we have it figured out.  These are great people to work with.  They were most interested in getting it looking original and correct, and worked with me throughout the process.  When I bought the car, it had a red battery cable running from the starter to the negative terminal and a braided wire positive ground strap form a transmission bolt to the positive battery terminal.  I always knew the red cable was a replacement, but figured the braided strap was original equipment.  As usual, I was wrong.  Checking the Instruction Book diagram I could see the Positive ground was a wire and not a braided strap.  It also ran a different route than the strap.  This isn't a very good shot, but it shows the red cable and the braided strap.  The red cable has been disconnected from the starter at this point.  It runs through the slot between the two wood pieces and through a hole in the tool box to the battery.  You can also see the braided ground strap following the same path.

 

 

Here is the frame diagram from the Instruction Book.  It's a little hard to see, but notice the different routing of the Positive ground cable.

 

 

To help Rhode Island, I laid out the routes of the two cables with white rope.  This is the way they are supposed to go.

 

The Positive ground cable - I finally figured out what those two clips on the inside of the X-frame were!

 

 

The Negative starter to battery cable.  This is one long cable - 50 inches.

 

 

I hope to have the cables sometime next week.

 

 

[Taylormade]

I found this neat old NOS oil filter on EBay.  it's close to what was on the car originally.  The graphics are really cool and I think it looks great on the car.  It came with the band mount, but I had to scratch build a mount for the whole assembly to fit on the side of the motor.  I'm not the world's greatest fabricator, but I think it came out looking okay.  I'm making up the oil feed and drain lines today.

 

 

 

 

I'm also installing the new wiring harness form Rhode Island Wiring.  They do very nice work and all the colored braiding matches up with what what left of the original wiring harness.

 

 

 

I also bought a water temperature gauge from Tractor Supply for twenty bucks.  You can see the end attached to the brass fitting next to the oil filter.  I'm going to try to graft the new capillary tube onto my old, original gauge.  I'll document that when I make the attempt.

 

.

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Mate, that look absolutely spectacular. What a fine job you are doing.

[keiser31]

I got my wiring for my '31 coupe from Rhode Island, also and I must say, they do a FINE job!

[Taylormade]

Just got my battery cables in from Rhode Island Wiring and they fit great.

 

 

I also rebuilt the starter pedal mechanism.  I had to find a new pedal as my old one was badly bent.  This led to having to make a new shaft as the old shaft was badly rusted and cracked at one end.  Everything is finally done, painted and mounted.

 

 

 

 

[RickBrinker]

When do we get to hear it run

[Taylormade]

I'm trying to get her going before we leave for Hershey.  Things keep getting in the way - the shaft on the starter pedal to name one.  And I just got a call from my sheet metal guy that my engine splash pans are done, so it's an all day trip to go and pick them up.  I'm as anxious as you are!

[Taylormade]

Last Spring, fellow Dodge Brothers Club member Larry Yirga graciously lent me his engine splash pans as a pattern to have a new set made up.  My body guy Ed Thomas finished them just in time so that I can take the originals back to Larry at Hershey next week. There are two side pieces and a front piece that spans the two under the radiator.  They really came out great - but Ed says he'll never do another set as they were the biggest pain in the you know what he's ever worked on.  Here's the old and the new side by side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now they're off to the powdercoaters while I'm at Hershey.

 

As a side observation, I can see why these were never put back on once they were removed.  As far as I can tell, it's impossible to install them without removing either the motor or the front springs!  The rear spring shackle interferes with the part and you just can't get them in place.  It looks like I'm going to have to put the frame up on jacks and then remove the shackles and let the rear of the springs and the axle drop down far enough that I can get the pans up into place.  I'm sure most of these were tossed after they were probably damaged getting them out in the first place.  You would have to bend the heck out of them to get them off if the front springs were in place.  I'm surprised Larry's were in such good shape, although Ed did do some minor body work to the originals when he made up the new ones.

[ply33]

Your body man does really nice work. And those dust pans are quite a bit more complex than the ones on my '33 Plymouth (and the Plymouth ones can be removed fairly easily other than pulling the pitman arm on the driver side one).

[Spinneyhill]

The pans in my Dodge 8 are very good at catching things I drop while working on the engine. I don't need to crawl around on the floor to find them.

[Taylormade]

Maybe the repair folks at the dealerships pointed out the engineering deficiency in the 32 DB design.  Trimming a bit off one section of the pan might solve the problem, but after all the effort Ed went to to get these exactly like the originals, I'm not going to butcher them.  Taking the shackles off and dropping the springs and axle shouldn't be that difficult - famous last words.

[Phil 32DL6]

All of this begs two questions in my mind:

 

Can you tell why you would need to remove them in the first place?

 

If you needed to remove them to, say, remove the engine, why wouldn't you put them back on before the engine?

[Taylormade]

And a very good question it is!  Someone probably didn't want them in the way for whatever reason.  I notice that they have "air scoops" at the front and have to assume they were designed and installed for a good reason back in 1931.  I doubt if the motor was ever removed from my car until I did it for the restoration.  But the original carb, air cleaner and possibly the vacuum clutch (if Daphne ever had one) were removed and never reinstalled, so I'm assuming the engine pans ended up in the same scrap heap.

[keiser31]

Excellent job on those pans! My 1931 items just unbolt and come off....no engine or suspension tinkering. It's amazing to me how many differences there are between 1931 and 1932.

Edited October 1, 2016 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

Yeah, it's like a Chinese puzzle - no matter what I try, something is always in the way.  If it didn't have the end tab, I'd be okay.  If that clears, then the spring is in the way.  Many things, especially the Floating Power set-up is rather a Rube Goldburg approach on the 32s.

[Taylormade]

My engine splash pan came back from the powdercoaters and I installed them today.  No easy job as I had to remove the wheels, undo the spring shackles and drop the front axle to get them in.  I can see why these were rarely, if ever, put back on once they were removed.

 

 

I used stainless hardware that matches the original bolts.in size and configuration.

 

 

The pans went on and fit perfectly.  Ed Thomas really did a great job on these.  He worked from a set of original pans and he got everything right.

 

 

  I didn't have to alter or enlarge a single mounting hole.  Everything fit right into place with no hassle.  It's kind of hard to photograph these things, but here's a look at the installed pans, my greasy fingerprints included.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2016 by Taylormade (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

Rolling my frame out of the garage for a good fall cleaning, I noticed a small amount of brake fluid on the drop-cloths on the garage floor.  A quick inspection leads me to believe the copper washers are not crushing properly where the brass fittings assemble to the brake cylinders and are allowing a very small amount of fluid to escape.  This is over six or seven months, so it's nothing catastrophic.  I seem to remember a post on this subject a while ago on the forum,  and plan to do a search tonight.  I think the problem is that the modern washers are too hard and must be annealed to soften them and make them more "crushable."  I'm glad I'm using silicon fluid or I'd be repainting my backing plates and rear axle.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Taylormade (see edit history)

[keiser31]

37 minutes ago, Taylormade said:

Rolling my frame out of the garage for a good fall cleaning, I noticed a small amount of brake fluid on the drop-cloths on the garage floor.  A quick inspection leads me to believe the copper washers are not crushing properly where the brass fittings assemble to the brake cylinders and are allowing a very small amount of fluid to escape.  This is over six or seven months, so it's nothing catastrophic.  I seem to remember a post on this subject a while ago on the forum,  and plan to do a search tonight.  I think the problem is that the modern washers are too hard and must be annealed to soften them and make them more "crushable."  I'm glad I'm using silicon fluid or I'd be repainting my backing plates and rear axle.

Leaking from all four wheel cylinders?