The Ressurection of Daphne - a 1932 DL

[keiser31]

24 minutes ago, Taylormade said:

Solid color, with no black along the beltline or around the windows.  That's the way the 32s came, but I don't know if this is correct for a 31.  I'm pretty sure the maroon grill insert should be black, as well as the piece above the running boards between the fenders.

You are absolutely correct. The maroon car was repainted incorrectly.

[Spinneyhill]

4 hours ago, Taylormade said:

I bought some felt from Grainger.  It's advertised as the correct hardness and durability for shaft and bearing seals, so I should be okay.  It comes in sheet, so I should be able to cut strips in the correct size with a little work.  Anyone have any suggestions on a good method of holding the felt in the channel?  The was enough thickness to pin the felt in on the original seal, but now it's too thin to do that.  I need something that will adhere the felt without soaking into it.  I assume that once it's in place, the pressure will hold it in, but getting it into place without the felt slipping out may be a problem.  As thin as it is now, getting it back out will be difficult if I make a mistake.

 

What about a couple of dabs of contact adhesive? Ados F2 or similar? I imagine it doesn't need to go all the way round. When you install the seal, you should use a bearing driver or similar that covers the seal so it goes in square. Put some grease on the felt too. Once in place the side walls of the metal channel should hold it in there with a small enough gap the felt can't squeeze out?

 

Grease the bearing before you install the seal, too.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

I guess that product is not available over here.  But I agree contact cement is probably the best bet.  The felt is due tomorrow, so we'll see what happens.

[Taylormade]

The felt arrived yesterday from Grainger - one day shipping, so I can't complain.  I ordered 1/16th inch high-density wool made for seals and polishing and it was very thick and dense when it arrived.  It also has a backing sheet which turned out to be a bonus.  I cut a strip of the correct width from the 12X12 sheet.  It took four passes with a new, and very sharp Exacto blade to cut through.  This is tough stuff. 

 

 

The wool tucked into the channel very nicely.  I didn't need any glue, I just pushed it in firmly as I edged around the channel and it stayed in with no problem.

 

 

Once I trimmed the end and tucked it in I had a pretty decent looking seal ready to go.

 

Next I put a little grease on the felt and drove the seal into place.  The wool stayed put and didn't slip out of the channel.  I think this is because it didn't stick out of the channel very far.  I don't think I would've been  be so lucky if there was more felt showing.

 

Here is the seal in place.  The bearing rotates nicely and the felt is nice and tight.  Seems like the problem's solved.  Now I can finally get the transmission back in

.

 

 

 

 

[keiser31]

Excellent!

[Taylormade]

Starting on the rebuild of my carburetor.  When I bought the car in 1965, it had a Carter BB-I Updraft installed.  According to the Owner's Manual, this was not the correct carb, but the car ran fine and I never gave it another thought.  After buying it back from Phil Kennedy, I took a closer look at the carb and did a little research.  I'm sure Jon (carbking) has a better handle on this, but it seems the early DLs like mine (third week of production) used a Carter like this one.  Jon mentioned that his books showed the very early DLs had 212 motors instead of the 218.  I'd never heard of that before.  I know during the rebuild we used 218 pistons, but was it pistons or the stroke that made the difference in displacement?  I don't  know if my car is early enough to have the smaller motor, but I know it's the original engine according to Chrysler Historical.

 

Apparently there were problems with this carb and Chrysler switched over to the BB-1, which turned out to be a very good carb - at least the updrafts were.  I assume sometime between 1931 and 1965, the carb in my car was changed out.  The carb that was in there when I bought the car is actually for a Chevy truck.  It seems that there are many, many variations of this carb that were used throughout the industry.  There are 31 different BB-1 carbs made for Chrysler alone.  My old BB-1 had seen better days.  The threads were stripped for the screws that held it together and there were some major corrosion problems.

 I sought out a new carb last year - naturally before I discovered all this information.  I found one on EBay that seemed to fit the bill, having MFD. FOR  CHRYSLER CORP stamped on it and the right stud spacing for my manifold.  Little did I know I had a one in thirty -one chance of getting the right carb. 

I bought it and it arrived looking pretty good.  This seller disassembles the carb. cleans and blasts it and sends it out with parts loosely installed and a rebuild kit and you do the actual rebuild.  He claims he won't take on the liability of doing the rebuild, I guess in case your car bursts into flame or something.

 

The carb was clean and seemed to be in good shape.  So, after a year, it was finally time to rebuild the unit and get it on the car in anticipation of starting the motor.  I carefully disassembled the carb and it proved to be as clean inside as it was outside -at least at first glance.

 

But as I continued taking it apart, piece by piece, I ran into two problems.  First was the idle passage tube.  There are a few different tubes in this carb.  Most have a slot in the top to so you can "easily" unscrew them.  But we're dealing with brass on iron, which creates a galvanic reaction over time and literally welds these parts in place.  Sometime in the past, someone had become overly energetic trying to get this one off.  The tube was split at the top and the slot was badly chewed up.  I figured this was no problem as the tube from my old carb would fit right in and it was in good shape.  WRONG!  My tube was longer and had a different inner diameter. 

I called Jon (carbking on this site) at http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/  to see if I could get a replacement.  That's when I got a friendly earful concerning BB! carburetors.  Jon said he couldn't come close to identifying what tube I needed without the model number.  I wasn't sure the tag on the carb was the original tag, but hoping it was I gave him the numbers.

It turns out that if the tag is correct, 6-B1 means I have a 1932 DeSoto carb.  Close enough as the motors are nearly the same.  So, I ordered the NOS tube and, fingers crossed, it's going to fit.  At least the length is correct as Jon sent me the measurements.and they seem to match mine.

 

The second problem resulted in an afternoon of frustration.  There is a tube hidden deep in the lower body of the carb.  It was obvious that, despite prior claims, this had not been removed.  It's down in the larger hole to the right.

It has the slotted top, but no amount pressure would budge the darn thing.  The last thing I wanted to do was tear up the top of this tube and have to try and find a replacement, so I got back on the phone with Jon.  This, it turns out, is a common problem.  He told me to heat the area around the base of the tube cherry red with a torch, let it cool, and it would come right out.  WRONG!  It took three tries and a frustrated call to Jon before, on the fourth try, it came loose as easy as you could please.  As I expected, it was filthy, with a thick coating of black gunk.  Once I cleaned it up, it looked okay.  The top was a bit mushroomed, but Jon told me to roll iy on a flat metal surface while I tapped it lightly, and that straightened things out.

 

Now I finally had everything apart.  I soaked the carb and parts in a bucket of carb cleaner for a few hours and then blew out all the passages with compressed air.  As soon as my part arrives, everything is going back together,

 

 

 

[Taylormade]

The continuing saga of my transmission woes.  This has caused a good two months delay in getting the drive-train back together again.  Today, after solving the throwout bearing situation and fixing the leak at the rear of the transmission, I went about the task of taking off the temporarily installed transmission and putting the new throwout bearing in place.  So, I crawl under the trans to drain the oil and what do I see?  You guessed it, oil leaking from the back of the transmission.  This came as quite a shock as I had been checking everyday for the last few weeks and it was dry as a bone.  It's been four or five days since I last checked and this showed up today.  On the bright side it appeared to be a very small and slow leak.  On close inspection I spotted the problem and i think it's an easy fix.  Thankfully I spotted it before I put everything back on (parking brake, etc.)

 

The leak is coming from the bolt that hold the capture plate for the two transmission shafts.  You can just see two drops of oil at the bottom of the bolt.  I wiped away the stream that ran down the face of the trans and underneath.  All other areas are dry so a little oil is seeping out around the bolt.  I plan to put a rubber o-ring on the bolt and tighten it down, reinstall the throwout bearing and transmission, and then wait and see if this finally solves the leakage problem.

 

 

 

[keiser31]

That bolt sure does not look tight in those photos.

[countrytravler]

8 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

That bolt sure does not look tight in those photos.

Bottomed out??

[Taylormade]

It doesn't but I can assure you it is - very tight.  It's an optical illusion in the photograph, perhaps some of the oil showing up in the space between the bolt head and the lock washer..The problem may be the lock washer.  The oil may be migrating along the bolt threads and seeping out through the space in the lock washer.  I hope an o-ring or rubber washer will solve the problem.

[Spinneyhill]

Excellent final result on the clutch release bearing!

 

You can try a thread seal or locking product on the thread but it all needs to be spotless and dry first. PTFE tape doesn't work. I don't know whether plumber's hemp would work. It appears they just didn't care about oil leaks back then. The differential cover bolts are the same: one end in the oil, the other in the air and they leak along the thread.

 

By the way, I came across an excellent bearing interchange web site while looking for a release bearing for Tom's UF-10 Truck.   http://www.skfpartsinfo.com/

Go to the interchange tab and enter your bearing or seal number. It doesn't work with our part numbers but with manufacturer's numbers. For your CT30, SKF offer N1055. Enter that number and you get an idea of all the manufacturers who made that bearing type and size. There were many.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

Thanks, Spinney, and thanks for all the help and advice.

[JACK M]

I use a thread sealer on lots of bolts.

Makes them easier to get out in the future as well.

Napa sells a thread sealer, it comes in a small can with a brush in the lid, Its a black sealer and is very similar to what I used to get from OMC when I worked on boat engines. OMC suggests coating most of the fasteners on an engine as it helps to check corrosion as well as seal leaks.

[Gunsmoke]

I agree with K31, that bolt just doesn't look properly seated. If it is in tight, lock washer should be flat against seat and bolt flat against washer with no gap whatsoever for oil etc. Optical illusion? Should check that it is not bottomed out, if it is, it would seem tight but not be. I've done it!

[Ron Lawson]

If the bolt has bottomed out it means that the threaded hole is a blind one ,not going through into the oil  Only way to find that out is to remove it and see if oil runs out  

[Taylormade]

It's not a blind hole, it goes through the case.  I used thread sealant and a fiber washer/gasket.  Hopefully it will solve the problem.  I agree it doesn't look seated in my photos.  When I removed the bolt, there was a chip in the lock washer, so I pitched it and got a new one.

[Taylormade]

Does anyone have an Owner's manual for a 32 DL (or eight) that describes filling the freewheeling unit with lubricant?  We had this discussion back in May and someone put this information up, but it seems to have disappeared.  In my Manual they say to fill the trans, then run the car with the transmission in gear for ten minutes, then check the level and add more lubricant.  I assume running the trans allows lubricant to migrate into the freewheeling case.  But I know there are also instructions in other manuals saying to fill the freewheeling case with lubricant through the speedometer hole.  I'd like to use this method to check for any leaks after reassembly but I need to know what the capacity of the freewheeling case is before I try to fill it.

 

Thanks in advance for any help or info.

[Phil 32DL6]

Dick...My April 1932 Edition doesn't even mention the "running the transmission for ten minutes" step. My manual says to simply fill the transmission to the proper height (really, at the point fluid begins to run out the fill hole on the transmission when the car is level).

 

I know we've found some differences in our transmissions (like the design of those Freewheeling roller thrust bearings) but I would think the filling routine would be similar. I'm guessing that early on they took an abundance of caution to recommend the running the transmission. Nevertheless, it's seems it would be a prudent thing to do do if you can...even turning it over by hand for a few minutes. If you did it and found there was no additional fluid needed, then you'd know from then on it wasn't a necessary procedure.

 

I think that filling through the speedometer cable access hole might apply to other brand transmissions?

[Taylormade]

I'm not sure just how much lubricant is supposed to be in the freewheeling case.  The two open holes between the transmission case and the freewheeling case are both above the fill hole.  I assume the churning of the gears would force some oil back there, even though the entry holes are above the fill hole.  There is an open bearing at the rear of the freewheeling case and it has to have an oil supply to keep it lubricated - that would mean there has to be at least an inch or two of lubricant in the freewheeling case.  I would think that if that much lube migrated back, the level in the trans would drop below optimum level.

[Phil 32DL6]

If you still have the transmission out how about positioning it so you can add enough to the Freewheeling unit through its drain hole to ensure lubrication? You could then top things off through the transmission fill hole. That might be a good one-time fix.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Phil 32DL6
update (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

Great idea - but I installed it this afternoon!

[Phil 32DL6]

1 hour ago, Taylormade said:

Great idea - but I installed it this afternoon!

That shouldn't be a problem. With all of that recent practice it shouldn't take more than, what, four or five minutes to remove & reinstall your transmission!

 

[ArticiferTom]

[Taylormade]

Frankly my dear, I'm not amused.  

[JACK M]

I had a mechanic that was having a few comebacks several years ago and I had a talk with him.

His response was that if a job is worth doing its worth doing twice. He didn't last to long after that meeting.

12 hours ago, Taylormade said:

Frankly my dear, I'm not amused.  

 

[Taylormade]

Well, as these forums often point out, there are no real instructions available when working on these old beasts.  You do your best, try to get advice and suggestions from all quarters, and then plunge ahead.  I'm pretty sure the transmission on my car leaked a bit the day it left the factory.  The design of the exposed shafts and the bolt holding the capture plate is an invitation to leak oil.  I've done all I can and may have to suffer a few drops in the pan I intend to put on the floor under the car.  Still, after all this, I'm right where I was two months ago.  That's discouraging, and I can see why restorations get stalled or totally abandoned over the years.  I'm determined to get my first car back on the road, as I promised myself years ago if I ever found it again.  I was blessed to have that happen, and 

I don't intend to break that promise.  All you can do is have a good sense of humor when these things happen.

[countrytravler]

And you can see why resto cost 6 figures. Average Jo could not afford. Your resto and Ian are over the top. I use to do Muscle car resto and nowhere the complications you have encountered.

I would do the same if I found my 1st muscle car. It was a 1965 Chev Impala SS convertible. Triple black with a 409-400 4 speed. The most rarest 409 produced. I bought it from the original owner in 68 and I was 16.

Pictures are from the internet. Lost a lot of my pictures in a basement flood in 76.

[Taylormade]

Nice Chevy!

[Taylormade]

I actually made good progress today despite the heat.  I got my part from The Carburetor Shop and finished the rebuild of the carb.

 

 

I finished installing the transmission.  It's not a big deal getting the trans in and out.  I used long bolts with the heads cut off as rails, substituting them for the two top studs on the bellhousing.  That way I could lift the trans onto the "rails and push it in smoothly.  This method also gives you an extra hand to guide the throwout bearing into place.

 

 

The hard part on these "Floating Power" DLs is the rear transmission mount.  It's that gray piece between the frame projections in the photo below.  First you have to bolt the rubber mount on the bottom of the case, then you have to slide the gray piece over the end of the trans and over the lip of the rubber mount while trying to keep the trans centered.  It's not easy.  As You can see, my car has no mounts from the bellhousing to the frame.  The engine and transmission truly do float on three rubber mounts and the front, center and rear.

 

 

The new throwout bearing is in place with the lube tube visible.  Pretty tough to get a decent picture.

 

This time I remembered to fill the tube with grease before I put it on, something I forgot to do the first time around.  I also found the correct rubber grommet at Hershey - one that would fit on the thick bellhousing.

 

[keiser31]

That is looking so sweet!

[Spinneyhill]

I presume you put some anti-seize grease on those brass nuts on the carb. bolts?

 

How thoughtfull of Dodge Bros to bring the clutch release bearing grease cup forward so one can turn it without having to remove the floor mats and take out a panel in the floor! That is progress.

 

Nice work!

[Taylormade]

It's just on temporarily to get it off the shelf and out of the way, but I will put anti-seize on them during final assembly.

[C Carl]

Do you guys think it makes sense to put an insulator block between the carb and manifold in these ,or I guess most cars of the era for that matter ? I know that in my mid '20s Cadilllacs , the cooler the intake , the better. - Carl

[Spinneyhill]

The volumetric efficiency of all reciprocating engines is improved with cool air. You get more air if it is cooler and thus more oxygen. Thus cooling the carb. is good.

 

The down side is that you are more likely to get icing in the venturi on cool days, esp. just after startup. They put exhaust heating valves in to overcome that.

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Magnificent work. Looks amazing......keep up the great work.

[Taylormade]

Moving along.  Go my front exhaust pipe bent up and did a test fit.  Went in perfectly.  I think some, or all, DLs originally had a two piece pipe between the manifold and the muffler, although I'm not sure why.  You can see what I'm talking about in this shot of Phil Kennedy's very original DL sedan.  The joint is right behind that amazing skyscraper air filter - another item that I don't have as it must have been removed from the car before I bought it.  Not sure about this, for all I know, mine is correct and Phil's is wrong.

 

 

Not having the joint attachments and wanting to drive the car before I'm too old to remember how, I opted to replace the existing one piece rusted out pipe with a new one.  I'm planning to paint it with ultra-high temp paint - unless anyone has a better suggestion.  I love how the pipe snakes down and through the opening in the X-Frame.  The guy at the exhaust shop was a little worried when I showed him what was left of the old pipe, but he did a nice job getting things just right,  One of the benefits of a small town shop and a guy who will work with you.  I also put the emergency brake back on the transmission and I hope that's the last time any of that stuff is coming off in my lifetime!

 

 

 

 

I also found a NOS muffler that fits like a glove.

 

 

Once the exhaust is on and the the wiring hooked up, I'll add fluids and try to start her up.

[keiser31]

That thing is a work of art! Everything is looking soooo good!! Do you know if that muffler is also for a 1931? My original was ribbed like that one.

[Taylormade]

18 minutes ago, keiser31 said:

That thing is a work of art! Everything is looking soooo good!! Do you know if that muffler is also for a 1931? My original was ribbed like that one.

 

I'm not sure.  It matches dimensions published in an old book someone posted here awhile ago.  I think I copied the pertinent page which also had info for 31s.  I'll see if I can find it and let you know.  I think they are different. 

[Taylormade]

I found the chart, it's from a Pratt Muffler catalog from 1938.  According to the catalog, the 1932 DL takes muffler 30X, which is 5 inches in diameter, has a body length of 23-1/2 inches and a total length of 26-1/2 inches.  The inlet is 2 inches centered and the outlet is 1-1/2 inches centered.

 

It also says the 1930 Senior takes the same muffler.  The 1931 DH and DD Dodges use muffler 30U, which has exactly the same dimensions except the the inlet is 1-5/8 inches.

 

The muffler numbers are unique to the Pratt brand as far as I can tell.

[keiser31]

Thank you for that muffler information!