Car Model Names?

[R W Burgess]

Just read the word Sunliner in the thread below..

http://forums.aaca.org/f169/its-barrett-jackson-time-again-325774.html

.......which reminded me of all of the great names of yesterday year. Sunliner, Galaxi, Fairlane, Starliner, then to GM-GTO, Bonneville, etc. What in the world happened when we turned our great named cars into numbers?

What were they thinking. 2020-"Hey Joe, look at that G-8 Pontiac! Man, ain't she something!" :confused::confused::confused:

Wayne

[1937hd45]

MERCER may have started it, I'd still like to have a T-35. I'd also make room for a Bugatti T-37. Bob

Edited April 7, 2012 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[R W Burgess]

See you're older than me Bob. I don't remember those cars????

Seriously, it's what your interests are I guess. I just always thought that using cool names that makes people think and remember was good for the hobby.

Wayne

[1937hd45]

No, I got interested in "Antique" cars in the 1960's at the age of 10, and never gave a rats backside for new stuff in the showrooms, that is why Pre 1943 cars are the "Cars of my Youth"

[sambarn]

I like my 33(1911 Hudson), e75 (27 marmon), L (27 marmon) and Sixteen names. The caddy can be confusing though, it's a '61 62. (series 62).

[1937hd45]

Did you overlook the Model B Caddy? :confused:

I like my 33(1911 Hudson), e75 (27 marmon), L (27 marmon) and Sixteen names. The caddy can be confusing though, it's a '61 62. (series 62).

[sambarn]

Yeah, I kinda did.

[Guest]

Just read the word Sunliner in the thread below..

http://forums.aaca.org/f169/its-barrett-jackson-time-again-325774.html

.......which reminded me of all of the great names of yesterday year. Sunliner, Galaxi, Fairlane, Starliner, then to GM-GTO, Bonneville, etc. What in the world happened when we turned our great named cars into numbers?

What were they thinking. 2020-"Hey Joe, look at that G-8 Pontiac! Man, ain't she something!" :confused::confused::confused:

Wayne

I think the big push started in the mid 70's. The muscle car went away, and suddenly European cars became really popular. European cars always used the numbering systems with letters. VW type 1=beetle & type 1 Karman-Ghia, type 2=transporter,type 3= variant in notchback,squareback, Karman-Ghia and fastback.

type 4 variant. Porsche 356, 904,911,912etc. Not to mention Mercedes, BMW. Saab, Volvo, Peugeot.

The Japanese changed their names to emulate the Europeans like Nissan/Datsun as Fairlady=240Z,260Z,280Z,280zx,300zx. Datsun Bluebird becoming 411 and 510 and 610. Violet=710. The Sunny became the LB110/Datsun 1200and later the B-210 and plain 210. The Sunny was also used in some Pulsar models. Nissan even used Bluebird for the 810 and 910. The Nissan/Datsun 810 morphed into the U11 and the Japanese cycle reversed itself and called the U11 Bluebird a Maxima here in the states and reversed the their lines with Stanza,Altima,Sentra,Versa,Murano,Quest, Titan,Frontier,....Only the 370Z remains, but it's still a Fairlady in Japan.

You will notice that all those cars above in the numbering system are for the U.S. while the Japanese versions retained for the most part just names.

Lets not even mention Toyota.

D.

[Guest]

Something else also happened back in the numbering of cars by Europeans. It suddenly became very popular by the mid 70's to have a badge on the front of your car of your country's or your origin, especially on the east and west coast. This also goes back to the Europeans where is was required to have a badge saying so in addition to your Lic. plate. later your plate would have this designation. Today the EU plates still designates country.

D.

[john2dameron]

I don't care for the car numbers either unless it's Ferrari and Porsche. For comparison, think what a time we'd have remembering our friends names if they were only numbers like they are in prison. Wonder how many digits a person would need in their name to make it theirs only and how many we could remember. Don't think it would work. I hope it stays Tom, Dick, and Harry.

[avgwarhawk]

Many cars are named after animals. Cougar, Lynx, Mustang.

[Guest South_paw]

How about cars that had the numbers spelled out?

[Rusty_OToole]

I think they just ran out of names. They still give some cars names but when they call them Tredia and Cordia, as one car company does, you can hear the bottom of the barrel being scraped, hard. What will their next effort be? The Beadia, the Whitewallia?

All the good names were used up years ago. From now on they will have to use names like Treetop or Notwithstanding, or else recycle names from old cars, or just use a string of numbers and letters.

[JD in KC]

How about cars that had the numbers spelled out?

Packard, 'One-Ten', 'One-Twenty', 'One-Sixty', 'One-Eighty' and 'The Four Hundred'

[R W Burgess]

All the good names were used up years ago. From now on they will have to use names like Treetop or Notwithstanding, or else recycle names from old cars, or just use a string of numbers and letters.

That's my point Rusty, they are not happy with the old names! Change for the sake of change?

That Pontiac G8, do you think that would ever be remembered as well as the GTO/Goat, even though Pontiac is gone now. Sad to me anyway. Guess I'm just a grumpy old man!

Wayne

[oldcarfudd]

I have a Model T Ford, a Model 35 Buick, a Model 63 Stanley, and a Model K Cadillac. Not a name in the bunch! I may have to name 'em myself - which, of course, many people did, back in the day.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[R W Burgess]

I may have to name 'em myself - which, of course, many people did, back in the day.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

Ummm, blue bomber(really significant-when the snipers were rampant in Virginia), grocery getter(Z28 engine in a '80 wagon), yellow elephant, rice burner(), bomber. These were daily drivers for our family.

Strange, but we've never named the antique cars????? Go figure!:confused:

[john2dameron]

Many cars are named after animals. Cougar, Lynx, Mustang.

Animals, insects, fish, etc. Wildcat, Barracuda, Hornet, Wasp, Road Runner, Super Bee, Jaguar, Bluebird. I don't know which I liked better, wildlife names or place names. Catalina, Bel Air, Biscayne, Fairlane.

[John_Maine]

Cars have always had numbers, initials or names but I think more are using initials now than at any time in the past and I think it has hurt some makes. Lincoln - who can remember what an MKS, MKZ, MKT and MK whatever are? Cadillac - DTS, CTS, STS - who knows what the differences are? Pontiac - G5, G6,G8 - didn't work in the 80's with the Model G, J-2000, 1000 and whatever, so why did they think it would work in the 00's? Case in point, GM brought back the Impala and Malibu and both have been extremely successful.

[Guest]

Animals, insects, fish, etc. Wildcat, Barracuda, Hornet, Wasp, Road Runner, Super Bee, Jaguar, Bluebird. I don't know which I liked better, wildlife names or place names. Catalina, Bel Air, Biscayne, Fairlane.

I like them all including Star Chief, Starfire, F-85, Cutlass, Delta 88, Continental, Premiere, Spider, Tempest, Storm, Typhoon,Ventura. Impulse, Cosmopolitan, Cheetah.

Here is a twist on the name game. In 1949 Buick came out with a Riviera hardtop on the Roadmaster. Pontiac and Chevrolet came out with hardtops in 1950 called the Chieftain Catalina and the Styleline Bel Air hardtop . All three cars of the hardtop styling were made into a series of car. Chevy was the first to do it, and Pontiac followed in 1959 with Catalina. Finally Buick came with the Sport/luxury Riviera series in 1963.

Then there was the switch in names like the 1953 Buick skylark, built on the Roadmaster chassis, turning into a different car in 1954, and then another version 1961-1963, still another version 1964 to 1972, then 1975-79 still another 1979 1/2 all with the skylark name. I think that was degrading, but necessary to hold onto the rights of the name.

Speaking of Buick's, how about Centurion? Wonder if they ever considered a Ben Hur model or Gladiator!

Then there are cars like Pontiac Bonneville that start out as a fuel injected convertible only in 1957, in 1958 a convertible and hardtop, and 1959 a convertible, 2dr and 4dr. hardtops and a wagon.

D.

[poci1957]

I think the big push started in the mid 70's. The muscle car went away, and suddenly European cars became really popular. European cars always used the numbering systems with letters.

The Japanese changed their names to emulate the Europeans like Nissan/Datsun as Fairlady=240Z,260Z,280Z,280zx,300zx.

Only the 370Z remains, but it's still a Fairlady in Japan.

You will notice that all those cars above in the numbering system are for the U.S. while the Japanese versions retained for the most part just names.

Lets not even mention Toyota.

Now Don, on that subject, let me ask about something you may know:

I got my basic Nissan history from the excellent 1980s book "The Reckoning" by David Halberstam, with lots of coverage of the legendary Mr Katayama. It is stated in that book that when the first (now) 240Z came to California it was badged as a Fairlady. Mr K was said to be horrified at how the name would sell in America but of course he could not change it without dishonoring the bosses in Japan. So the way he could change the name without losing face was to badge it with the internal project code, 240Z. A very good story IMO, but considering the 510 had arrived previously I have always wondered if it is true. Any idea? Todd C

PS--we may not always notice, but when the Japanese establish a successful name they REALLY stick with it. Corolla, Camry, Accord, Maxima, etc have all been around since the 1970s/early 1980s and have not been changed or messed with.

[ply33]

Surprised that Chrysler model numbers from the late '20s haven't been mentioned yet. If I recall correctly they indicated the sustained speed the car was capable of. So you really were getting a step up from a Chrysler 52 to an Imperial 80... These were, of course, the marketing model "names" for the cars, the engineering codes were more prosaic letter codes generally unknown to people outside of the service departments and factory.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

All I can think of was the day a buddy and I were sitting in his then near new ' 79 Z-28 in front of a store, you know, they had the model designation in like 8 inch letters stuck on the side of the car. Older gent comes along and says "Young man, would you kindly move your "228" away from the entrance to my store? His car was nicknamed for life!

[Guest bkazmer]

Pontiac GTO fans, the GM usage was cribbed from Ferrari: Gran Turismo Omologato to describe cars that met the qualification to race in production class

[Guest Old48Truck]

My alltime favorite model name is Roadmaster. It kinda says it all.

[Guest]

Pontiac GTO fans, the GM usage was cribbed from Ferrari: Gran Turismo Omologato to describe cars that met the qualification to race in production class

Here is the facts; Ferrari was using the term "GTO" on a limited production car. Pontiac was using the term "GTO" on a limited production car called LeMans GTO. The Federated International Automobile (FIA) OWNED the term.

Any car that can qualify meeting the FIA rules can use the term. So Pontiac did not steal the term from Ferrari, they took it legally from the FIA just like Ferrari did from the FIA. I like the term cribbed, a nice way to say steal and not ruffle the feathers of the unenlightened.

Now how about a car that the people who built it didn't care if it was homologated or not and nobody says anything about it. Try Studebaker's Grand Touring Hawk.

The only time Pontiac did get out of bounds was in the naming of the Trans-Am. I think they had to pay a few bucks to SCCA for every unit sold. Funny that no REAL Pontiac Trans-Am never raced in the series.

Don

[DAVE A]

Poel Crosley had a way with words and part of his marketing genius was his ability to come up with names for things. Terms like the highly successful Shelvadore refrigerators (for the first refrigerator with shelves in the door) or the lesser known Koolrest beds (bed with a built in cooling system) were examples of his marketing genius. He was less so with the automotive names although the COBRA (for the COpper BRAzed block) was a good one. Most of the early Crosley models were just descriptive names like Convertable coupe, Convertable sedan, Station wagon, although he did pioneer the term Sport Utility Vehicle for a canvas bodied station wagon. Later he had names like Hotshot, Supersports (yes that word was first used by Crosley in 1951), and Farm O Road to describe models. All in all some pretty memorable names.

[Guest]

Now Don, on that subject, let me ask about something you may know:

I got my basic Nissan history from the excellent 1980s book "The Reckoning" by David Halberstam, with lots of coverage of the legendary Mr Katayama. It is stated in that book that when the first (now) 240Z came to California it was badged as a Fairlady. Mr K was said to be horrified at how the name would sell in America but of course he could not change it without dishonoring the bosses in Japan. So the way he could change the name without losing face was to badge it with the internal project code, 240Z. A very good story IMO, but considering the 510 had arrived previously I have always wondered if it is true. Any idea? Todd C

PS--we may not always notice, but when the Japanese establish a successful name they REALLY stick with it. Corolla, Camry, Accord, Maxima, etc have all been around since the 1970s/early 1980s and have not been changed or messed with.

Hi Todd,

As you know reading that book the Z was penned as a Fairlady Z in Japan. Mr. K had been first Vice President of west coast operations of Nissan Motor Corp. in U.S.A. in 1958 and became president in late 1965.

Mr. K was many things to his people from the lowest to the highest levels of the corporation. A people and a car person you could depend on. Mr. K always moved throughout all levels of the corporation and listened to people. He made everyone feel like he or she was important and part of a team. In those days you had two homes, one of them just happened to be at work.

Anyroad, the 240 part of the designation is the engine capacity. But it's true that when the cars arrived at the port he and others re badged the cars without Nissan Limited's knowledge. Mr. K was sort of a maverick when it came to those sort of things and VERY unusual in Japanese corporate structure.

In a way he was like Pontiac's Bunkie Knudsen in that he realized one way to make Nissan/Datsun a success was to go racing.

And in a way he was like Pete Estes, who put his career on the line by going against G.M. corporate policy and bring out the Pontiac GTO without the corporations knowledge.

I know the 510 was before the Z, and it's name in Japan was the Bluebird but I don't know who re-badged it. Certainly Mr. K had something to do with it. I don't think names like Bluebird,Violet or Fairlady would sell very well here.

Don

Edited April 9, 2012 by helfen (see edit history)

[poci1957]

Well I am glad to hear it is true, it is a story very in keeping with the Mr K legacy. As a Pontiac guy I also noticed the similarity to the old Bunkie Knudsen/Pete Estes stories.

Reading and seeing interviews with (and about) Mr K, I think he really relished his maverick status. I read him decry other executives for being "too Japanese" in their conservative ways and he said he loved the freedom he found in America. He spoke so glowingly that I am a little surprised he did not retire here. And it sounds like the dealers and car magazines loved him too. Anyway, thanks for confirming the story, Todd C

[Guest]

I think everyone should take a page from Mr.K's book of life.

" Love cars, love people, love life "

You know on September 15th Mr. K will be 103 years young!

Don

[Pete O]

We have Mercedes to thank for the current obsession with numbers in the model name instead of actual names. Mercedes, with it's German predilection for efficiency and logic, used numbers to identify the engine used in its models. Because of the perceived quality of Mercedes cars, the Japanese luxury cars manufacturers emulated this naming convention for their new luxury cars when they were being introduced to get some of that perception of quality rubbed off on them. Thus the snowball effect began. Everyone wants their cars to be associated with the perceived quality of the luxury cars.

[Guest]

We have Mercedes to thank for the current obsession with numbers in the model name instead of actual names. Mercedes, with it's German predilection for efficiency and logic, used numbers to identify the engine used in its models. Because of the perceived quality of Mercedes cars, the Japanese luxury cars manufacturers emulated this naming convention for their new luxury cars when they were being introduced to get some of that perception of quality rubbed off on them. Thus the snowball effect began. Everyone wants their cars to be associated with the perceived quality of the luxury cars.

If you have read the above threads you have noticed that the Datsun 510 was introduced in 1968 and the first Infiniti's were launched in 1990 as the M-30 ( in Japan as the Nissan Leopard ) and Q-45 ( Nissan Cima) and in 1991 G-20 ( Nissan Primera).

In fact all these Nissan/Datsun cars are way before Infiniti luxury cars;

LB110, Lb210, PL 520,521,620, 720,D21, 510, 610, 710, 810, 910, D. 1500, D.1600, D. 2000, 240, 260,280, 280ZX,280ZXT300ZX,300ZXT, 2ooSX, 240SX.

So saying the luxury cars started the number system for Japanese cars is just not so.

D.

[The Continental]

How about the number names that had meaning like Chrysler 300 and Buick Century, those are cool

[Dave@Moon]

I don't think names like Bluebird,Violet or Fairlady would sell very well here.

Japanese cars are often named in the home market with a degree of whimsy that is both deliberate and unacceptable here. Would you buy a Daihatsu Naked? An Isuzu Mysterious Utility? Mitsubishi Delica Space Gear? Nissan Prairie Joy? Honda Life Dunk? Nissan Homy Super Long? Mazda Scrum Wagon? Those are all real names, and they knew what them meant when they used those names.

[poci1957]

Those are all real names, and they knew what them meant when they used those names.

And I had always assumed they were a little odd from losing something in translation. Todd

[Restorer32]

Heard a fellow once read the "One Twenty" script on my brothers '42 as 'Ona Tuenta"

Packard, 'One-Ten', 'One-Twenty', 'One-Sixty', 'One-Eighty' and 'The Four Hundred'

[Restorer32]

oops, his '41

[Restorer32]

Now Don, on that subject, let me ask about something you may know:

I got my basic Nissan history from the excellent 1980s book "The Reckoning" by David Halberstam, with lots of coverage of the legendary Mr Katayama. It is stated in that book that when the first (now) 240Z came to California it was badged as a Fairlady. Mr K was said to be horrified at how the name would sell in America but of course he could not change it without dishonoring the bosses in Japan. So the way he could change the name without losing face was to badge it with the internal project code, 240Z. A very good story IMO, but considering the 510 had arrived previously I have always wondered if it is true. Any idea? Todd C

PS--we may not always notice, but when the Japanese establish a successful name they REALLY stick with it. Corolla, Camry, Accord, Maxima, etc have all been around since the 1970s/early 1980s and have not been changed or messed with.

We always referred to the 240Z as the 24 Ounce

[Guest]

We always referred to the 240Z as the 24 Ounce

Meaning??:confused:

[Guest Old48Truck]

24 oz. and 24OZ being similar, helfen.