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1923 Model T centerdoor


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I just sold a guy a 1923 centerdoor sedan. He had it shipped across the country. When he recieved it he called to tell me he was very upset and what I sent was not a centerdoor. He claims he has owned two of them before and they only have one door on the right. What is this guy talking about??

Dave

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This from a website I just visited...

The most remarkable thing about this car is the immaculate interior. It is said to have the best original interior of any Model T in the world. Although 19 million Model T Fords were built between 1908 and 1927, and many have survived, most original interiors show the wear and tear of years of ordinary use. This centredoor body style, with a single door on each side was produced from 1915 to 1923.

Yep...."a single door ON EACH SIDE" is the key.

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)
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Sounds like you sold him a Tudor if what he recieved has him upset. A photo of the vehicle will end the discussion. :rolleyes:

I just sold a guy a 1923 centerdoor sedan. He had it shipped across the country. When he recieved it he called to tell me he was very upset and what I sent was not a centerdoor. He claims he has owned two of them before and they only have one door on the right. What is this guy talking about??

Dave

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Yes, a photo of the car shipped would help. What I meant to say was "a single door in the CENTER of each side". Maybe another tack is to ask the buyer to please send you a photo of one or both of his previous "single door Ts".

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)
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From what I have seen, I don't see how he has a valid complaint with you based on the photos. The auction shows no bids, so I assume he and you made an agreement for him to buy it outside of Ebay, so he has no grounds for a complaint with Ebay either.

I would always recommend trying to come to a reasonable polite settlement on any dispute, but I don't know how you can come to any such arrangement in this situation. If he does not want it, from the photos, I would think he should be able to re-sell it easily.

Any idea how much he might be interested in selling it for? There may very well be a potential buyer on this site.

In any case best of luck to both of you.

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Neat. I like centerdoors -- have photos of the one my mothers family bought new.

Ask the guy if his other two cars were sedans. I'll bet he's screwing up the terminology for open cars that lack a drivers door.

Kind of what I was thinking, too. Because of the spare tire on the driver's side or the hand brake?

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Kind of what I was thinking, too. Because of the spare tire on the driver's side or the hand brake?

Usually only trucks had a spare on the running board. It's mostly a hand brake issue. On a centerdoor that's not a problem, as you enter behind the front seat. Other sedans (Fordor and Tudor) and coupes did have a drivers door, but they're not very practical. Omitting the drivers door on open cars might just be an economy thing, too, since it was kind of a pointless feature.

A little bit of trivia -- Ford didn't call them "centerdoors", just "sedans".

As standard production Model T's go, centerdoors are a pretty rare animal.

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I'm not well versed on model T's and I don't have a Ford book but it seems to me that I have seen a coupe configuration with a bussel trunk, that has only 1 door in the center onthe passenger side only. I believe it only has a bucket seat for the driver and no passenger front seat. It has a full back seat. The buyer may have the center door coupe confused with the center door sedan. None the less, he should have realized what you were selling wasn't what he wanted from the photos.

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I'm not well versed on model T's and I don't have a Ford book but it seems to me that I have seen a coupe configuration with a bussel trunk, that has only 1 door in the center onthe passenger side only. I believe it only has a bucket seat for the driver and no passenger front seat. It has a full back seat. The buyer may have the center door coupe confused with the center door sedan. None the less, he should have realized what you were selling wasn't what he wanted from the photos.

Perhaps this?

post-37352-14313840107_thumb.jpg

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That looks like a nice car. Black radiator T's don't bring as much as the earlier brass T's but it looks like he made out OK with his $9200 investment. What state did you ship it to? I might take it off his hands if it is not too far away.

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I'm not well versed on model T's and I don't have a Ford book but it seems to me that I have seen a coupe configuration with a bussel trunk, that has only 1 door in the center onthe passenger side only. I believe it only has a bucket seat for the driver and no passenger front seat. It has a full back seat.

A Model T coupe has no back seat

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Guest EMF-Owner

I am asked this all the time when I show my 1920 Centerdoor. I have never seen a Centerdoor with only one door (meaning no door on the drivers side).

Ford was not the only automobile manufacturer to build a "Centerdoor" sedan. They just built the most of them. Between 1915 and 1923, Ford built just under 1 Million of the Centerdoor Model T's. Bruce McCalley's Book on the model T called the Centerdoor the rarest of the common bodied Model T's.

Ford did not build the Centerdoor Body. They were built by either the Fisher Body Company or the Wadsworth body company. There are slight differences between the bodies. My 1920 is a Fisher Body Centerdoor.

With the number of people who tell me they thought the Centerdoor only had one door, I have to believe there was one built by some company that did only have one. I do not believe it was Ford though. Like someone else said, show me a picture of one.

Have a great day.

John

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Ford referred to what we call a center door as a 5-passenger.

Doors on a Model T:

Roadster-one door on the passenger side

Touring- 3 doors (one door on the passenger side, 2 rear doors)

5 passenger or Center door-one door on each side of the car located in the center

Tudor- 2 doors

Fordor-4 doors

The center door body style was the most expensive and rarest of the common Ford body styles. 5.4% of the total number of Model Ts produced were center doors.<!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} b\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if pub]><xml> <b:Publication type="OplPub" oty="68" oh="256"> <b:OhPrintBlock priv="30E">281</b:OhPrintBlock> <b:DptlPageDimensions type="OplPt" priv="1211"> <b:Xl priv="104">7772400</b:Xl> <b:Yl priv="204">10058400</b:Yl> </b:DptlPageDimensions> <b:OhGallery priv="180E">259</b:OhGallery> <b:OhFancyBorders priv="190E">261</b:OhFancyBorders> <b:OhCaptions priv="1A0E">257</b:OhCaptions> <b:OhQuillDoc priv="200E">276</b:OhQuillDoc> <b:OhMailMergeData priv="210E">262</b:OhMailMergeData> <b:OhColorScheme priv="220E">279</b:OhColorScheme> <b:DwNextUniqueOid priv="2304">1</b:DwNextUniqueOid> <b:IdentGUID 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My husband and I just purchased a 1918 center door earlier this year. The interior is still original. We are hoping to take Elizabeth to Charlotte this year and enter her as HPOF.

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post-30694-143138401604_thumb.jpg

post-30694-143138401606_thumb.jpg

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"Roadster-one door on the passenger side

Touring- 3 doors (one door on the passenger side, 2 rear doors)"

Model Ts made in Canada had doors on both sides. Reason, so they could make left hand drive or right hand drive cars for export.

I thought this was a well known bit of trivia in the Ford ranks.

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Thanks! I knew about the Canadian drivers side front door, never knew about the left or right driver export reason. I'm always bothered by people commenting about the "accessorie" front doors on my 1912 Touring. EVERY TOURING CAR left the factory with FRONT DOORS! That was the reason Ford first used the term Fordor, as in Forward Door. End of rant.:D

"Roadster-one door on the passenger side

Touring- 3 doors (one door on the passenger side, 2 rear doors)"

Model Ts made in Canada had doors on both sides. Reason, so they could make left hand drive or right hand drive cars for export.

I thought this was a well known bit of trivia in the Ford ranks.

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Guest De Soto Frank
I just sold a guy a 1923 centerdoor sedan. He had it shipped across the country. When he recieved it he called to tell me he was very upset and what I sent was not a centerdoor. He claims he has owned two of them before and they only have one door on the right. What is this guy talking about??

Dave

Presumably, you sent the buyer pictures of the car before the deal was closed ?

If so, then there should have been no surprises as to body style/ configuration when the real thing arrived.

Also, as far as I know, the Center-door sedan was the only (?) Model T car with an arched roof-line.

And if the two-door Center Door is one of the "rarest" T's, then the one-door Centerdoor professed by your buyer must be super-ultra rare...

I have only seen / read about the version with one door on each side, in the center.

I have McCalley's book, and it's pretty darned exhaustive.

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Was there not a Model T that had a single door in the rear of the vehicle? If so was that maybe the "center door" car that he was thinking about?

A few very early cars had a single rear door entry to the back seat...1902 Cadillac, 190? Rambler, I believe.

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Guest Silverghost

For many years there was a very very early Brass Ford Model "T" touring car in Ocean City NJ owned by Judge Robert "Bob" Boakes of Walnut La. that had an unusual & very small center rear tonneau entrance door in the middle of the back seat area.

This small door was easily removed with it's unique take-apart style hinges .

The body was 100%original ~~~

It was a very early brass-"T" with unusual & unique running boards also.

It also had very early Acetylene gas lights with a running board gas generator.

I believe another coachbuilder built this body for directly for Ford .

It was the most unique and earliest model "T" we had ever seen !

The engine had exposed valve springs also !

There was a coachbuilder's plate on the car~~~ Their name escapes me for the moment !

I rode in this car many times as a youngster as the judge drove it all the time in town during the Summer.

It was a regular fixture at Ocean City NJ's Annual Antique car show & boardwalk run.

Does anyone have a photo of this , or a similar, rather rare & unusual style rear entrance tonneau type "T" touring car ?

Edited by Silverghost (see edit history)
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