Custom bodied Packards

[Ozstatman]

Here's another thread about a European bodied Packard - http://www.packardclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3526

[Owen_Dyneto]

Mal, what a memory - congratulations.  Yes, likely by Pennock.

[colinvoice]

Hi

 

Thanks for your help. In LA at the moment and have been talking to quite a few people about the Packard. Still going round in circles a little bit and I need to do more research back in the UK. Will keep in touch.

 

Colin

[edinmass]

Car looks similar to a 1936 Lagonda V12 Rapide, not sure of the coach builder. The side moulding treatment looks like the one sold a Pebble this year. It sure looks like English work to me.

[Guest bkazmer]

I agree it looks English.

I'll make a SWAG - Tickford.  It looks like a three position top. The holes to add a big piece of bright trim are a one off, in a wobbly line.  The top folds to a big pile resting on the irons on each side. There was bright work up to the cowl taper into the hood. 

Do I know this is right - nope.

[Restorer32]

My wag is James Young based only on similarities to a James Young Bentley Sedanca Coupe we rewooded years ago. .

[alsancle]

The Nethercutt's 845 Dietrich.

[roadster]

Folks, Dick Saunders 1936 Packard Twelve Boattail Speedster 904080 is back out on the auction block.  Mecum Monterey August 2016.  Dick Saunders I am sure he is enjoying this next chapter of his "Saunders Special."  As many have of you have heard, Dick was a Pioneer of Hotrod Packards.  Many people got caught up in a flat head v8 while Dick was tinker with the Packard Twelves.  Some of his V-12 creations were paired with twin superchargers; and even a couple of transmissions joined together. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by roadster (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

This original period photo of a 1931 Packard Deluxe Eight 745 convertible sedan appeared in the AACA General Discussion forum. The OP asked for a identification. It appears to be a Dietrich design. I searched the Internet, and found three other examples: The red car has incorrect bumpers on it, as well as an incorrect trunk. The "when new" photo came from ebay, from the Walter Miller collection.

Was Packard using the term "Individual Custom" as early as 1930?

Here's the original post:

[West Peterson]

And one more.

[alsancle]

I can think of a bad looking car that Ray Dietrich every touched.  In fact, the ones that just carried his nameplate were good looking too.

[West Peterson]

I agree. I'm usually not a fan of the light colored fenders with dark body, but it doesn't look half bad on the Bahre car above. Probably because they put black tires on it. White would totally ruin it, as can be seen on the red/silver car.

[alsancle]

Of course I intended to say "can't".   I agree with you West that the blackwalls make it work on Bob's car.

[Walt G]

Why do all the current cars existing have plated or polished(?) windshield frames when the period images seem to show these painted?

Also note the plated wheels, it is purely personal choice but painted wheels work better for me. there seems to be an overabundance of cars being restored now with the wheels being plated.

To each their own, but to be authentic and get that "period" look perhaps fewer trips to the chrome plater could take place?

Anything was possible if the customer requested it, but customers were for the most part conservative in taste. I have in my archives Dealers' Price List on Packard Approved Accessories from January 1929 thru January 1933 and although wire wheels are listed, plated wire wheels are not.

[alsancle]

I'm ok with the plated wires with blackwalls.  We can agree that there is a lot more chrome going on than there was originally.  Current chrome prices may help correct that.  The colors tend to be a bigger sin for me (and the tires).

[West Peterson]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

Why do all the current cars existing have plated or polished(?) windshield frames when the period images seem to show these painted?

Also note the plated wheels, it is purely personal choice but painted wheels work better for me. there seems to be an overabundance of cars being restored now with the wheels being plated.

To each their own, but to be authentic and get that "period" look perhaps fewer trips to the chrome plater could take place?

Anything was possible if the customer requested it, but customers were for the most part conservative in taste. I have in my archives Dealers' Price List on Packard Approved Accessories from January 1929 thru January 1933 and although wire wheels are listed, plated wire wheels are not.

I hadn't noticed that, Walt, but now that you bring it up, I see that the landau irons are also painted in the original photos, and plated during restoration.

[edinmass]

Plated wires were offered by Cadillac till 1932 where the salesmen's data book says they will not do them at all, Pierced offered plated wires till the end, I have seen them on factory wheels through 1936. Interestingly the factory would not guarantee the chrome, even when special ordered from new. Ed

[alsancle]

31 840 Dietrich.

[alsancle]

32 Deluxe Eight with body by Waterhouse.   Fantastic car.  With 1970s restoration and 1960s picture courtesy of Jason.  I want all you whitewall guys to tell me the second picture looks better.

 

 

 

 

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 8:38 PM, alsancle said:

32 Deluxe Eight with body by Waterhouse.   Fantastic car.  With 1970s restoration and 1960s picture courtesy of Jason.  I want all you whitewall guys to tell me the second picture looks better.

 

 

 

 

OK the second photo does look better, but then it's in color.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, Dave Gelinas (XP-300) said:

OK the second photo does look better, but then it's in color.

 

It was supposed to be a trick question!

[Dave Gelinas (XP-300)]

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 3:12 PM, alsancle said:

 

It was supposed to be a trick question!

It was a trick answer.

[James-Wahl Motors]

Does anybody know this 1929 640 convertible sedan by Larkins & Co?

 

There's some info and another photo here: http://www.chicagovintage.com/gallery/packard/1929-packard-model-640-convertible/

 

The accompanying text says the car is mentioned in The Coachbuilt Packard, but I didn't see it in there. Now I read there are two editions, so I have to check back on which one I saw - if there would be a difference.

 

coachbuilt mentions it on their Larkins page: http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/l/larkins/larkins.htm Says this: "...Hugo Pfau was familiar with the car and believed that in reality it bears a re-badged Murphy body as it featured the Pasadena coachbuilder’s distinctive cast aluminum door posts and clear vision styling.  

Although it’s possible that Murphy supplied Larkins with the cast-aluminum hardware or in fact supplied them with a body-in-the-white, Pfau stated that it was much more likely that Larkins later refinished the body, applying their nameplate at that time…"

 

August H. Pape is referred to as Larkins & Co.'s designer, but all I see so far is his name on patents for convertible tops. Wondering if he designed bodies?

 

Also, I am looking for any period photos of or artwork that pertains to this car. Thanks.

 

[alsancle]

Larlkins built a few bodies including a Rolls LHD P1 coupe for the famous Duesenberg owner George Whittell although I think they were more of a body shop/garage.  That body is Murphy as far as I can tell.

 

http://vintagemotoring.blogspot.com/2013/09/george-whittell-and-his-phantom-i-rolls.html

 

[roadster]

1929 Packard 6-40 Rollston Touring Barn Find.  Here is a video of the car being pulled out of the garage.  The picture of this car in black was posted on October 1953 in Motor Trend.  Color was changed to white at some point.   The body is aluminum.  Front seating has a pass through.  There is a windscreen that pulls out the back passenger seat, it is adjustable.  The firewall data plate dealer name is PMCCO. New York dated 5-1-29. This is a very interesting car.

 

 

[alsancle]

Wow, I've never seen pull down windscreens before.

[edinmass]

Neat car..........looks like a body style used by Pierce and Peerless in the late teens with the walk through between the front seats. 

[John_Mereness]

On 3/14/2018 at 8:40 PM, roadster said:

1929 Packard 6-40 Rollston Touring Barn Find.  Here is a video of the car being pulled out of the garage.  The picture of this car in black was posted on October 1953 in Motor Trend.  Color was changed to white at some point.   The body is aluminum.  Front seating has a pass through.  There is a windscreen that pulls out the back passenger seat, it is adjustable.  The firewall data plate dealer name is PMCCO. New York dated 5-1-29. This is a very interesting car.

 

 

The 1932 Packard Twin Six with Murphy body originally owned by Gar Wood of boat racing fame has a similar pull out dual cowl feature.   What I find more interesting is the spit "walk through" front seat that are generally only found on earlier Packard Cloverleaf Tourings and 2 door Cloverleaf tourings in general, as well as the periodic teens Pierce Arrow and ... (which are all rare of rare body styles to begin with). 

[West Peterson]

Come on, John. You know better than that. That is not a cowl, it's a rear windshield.

 

[A. Ballard 35R]

Why is it called a touring when there are no jump seats?

[alsancle]

17 minutes ago, A. Ballard 35R said:

Why is it called a touring when there are no jump seats?

 

I don't know if I'm right or not but I use "touring" and "phaeton" almost interchangeably when being generic (i.e. not talking about Auburn Phaetons).   I don't count the seats, only the side windows.

[Restorer32]

At least with Packards, if it has jump seats it is a Touring.

[A. Ballard 35R]

Having been raised in a Packard family, a phaeton is a five passenger whereas a touring is a seven passenger. As West knows, the beautiful 734 Speedster Phaeton pictured on another thread is of particular interest to me. There is an exception to the Packard body designations in the early years. The Model N, for example, is called a touring but is only a five passenger car. I am confused as to how to count the number of windows to tell the difference between a touring and a phaeton without pulling out the side curtains.

Edited April 4, 2018 by A. Ballard 35R
Added phrase (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

The white car above seems to have one jump seat, and one pull-out windshield in place of a jump seat. I'd call it a touring, but being a complete custom, call it what you want. How about Cloverleaf Touring????

[A. Ballard 35R]

Great observation, West. I completely missed the jump seat behind the driver. Your Cloverleaf Touring designation makes as much sense as anything else.

[alsancle]

Coming up for auction soon. * Custom "one-off" body built by Pennock of the Hague, for M. Degroot Driebergen of Newfoundland

 

https://www.earlywineauctions.com/vehicles/754/1938-packard-1600-convertible

 

 

[West Peterson]

A quick scuffing of that grey primer and finishing with a nice deep green, blue or black will finish it nicely.

 

[cobalt1959]

On 1/5/2011 at 1:17 AM, Dave Mitchell said:

Another boat tail speedster

 

McCauley's original Brown Bomber.  It didn't stay like that . . .

[edinmass]

It’s been a long time since we were posting on this thread.....this was worth thr jump start. The guy should be slapped for that trunk.

[edinmass]

Another view.........