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I didn't know that Derham was built. I hadn't seen that photo before. Thank you for posting it. Assuming that photo was taken when the car was new, where are the sidemount covers?

And it's surprising the trippe lights are the lesser costing painted ones. This car would be the sister car to the Derham sedan in Indianapolis. I can't tell, is it LWB or SWB?

Is the 1931 a Rollston? I wonder if it survived given that it has foreign plates on it.

I do know there's a 1938 Twelve Rollston conv victoria somewhere on the east coast but only a few people know where it is and no one will talk. I think it's been in the same family since the 1950's and is still mostly original. Walt Gosden had a picture of it 20 years ago in the Classic Car magazine.

Edited by K8096 (see edit history)
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I like all Waterhouse bodies. Sadly so does everybody else which is why they are so expensive.

Here are a couple of my favorites by Graber. The first was owned by Sergio Franchi and restored by my Uncle Ted Billings in the early 70s.

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Great photos! Keep them coming. Is the Franay fully collapsable or a town car? I remember one that Bob Titlow in Indiana restored in the late 80s or early 90s - I think it ended up in California, done in pale yellow and black. Is the 236 Steve Babisky's car? Nice car too. The 40 Derham is a really interesting car. The Grabers are all interesting - I haven't seen a photo of the blue one before - is it still in the US? The 38 120 I saw at Pebble, and it is a great car. I personally think that he should have cleaned the dirt and certainly the bird droppings off the car. I have judged that class in the past and I don't think that is appropriate. I heard that he was asking $1.2 million for it.

I am restoring the 38 Derham now and have letters between Derham and the man who commissioned the car. A lot of the chrome is painted (he even specified painting the gas cap black)and there are covers, but he wanted to see it without before putting them on. It is a lwb 1608. We are putting it back as it was when new.

The Waterhouse is lost - it belonged to the American ambassador to Stockholm, and was stolen - the theives thought better of it once they found out who it belonged to and parked it out on the ice and left it. The ice gave way and it probably still rests in Lake Malaren. Lacking Clive Cussler's budget, I haven't tried to find it.

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Yes, the 236 by Merrimac is Steve Babinsky's car. The 39 Franay is not fully collapsible, despite the suggestion. There is another picture of it and a partial of the rear interior at:

PackardClub.org • View topic - Visit to the Marano Collection

Particulary interesting is the rack and pinion gearing of the divider window which allows it to move rearward and it drops, thus allowing an adjustable front seat.

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Not exactly a custom, very VERY unusual anyway. A 1934 Twelve 1108 with the quite uncommon "hi top" factory option which raised the roof 2 inches. This option was available on certain closed car models for quite a few years in the 30s. Sorry, don't recall the source of the photograph, but it wasn't one of mine.

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No, there's a 1938 Rollston victoria out there too, with a vee windshield. Somewhere on the east coast. Painted light grey. It looks very similar to the Derham in the first post here. Walt Gosden submitted a photo of it in his Coachwork Lines column in the CCCA publication about 20 years ago. When I bring it up to people I know in the NJ area, they all say, "yes we know about it, no we won't tell you where it is." I think the same family has had it since the 1950's. Obviously it's a very desirable car, and those who do know about it are hoping to someday get it, so I can't blame them for keeping its location close to the vest.

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Ninth series Twin Six by Dietrich with dual rear spares, taken at a VMCCA regional meet in northern New Jersey about 35 years ago.

Is this car still around or did the spares get moved back to the side? Or, were the spares originally mounted in the back?

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Great thread. Hugo Pfau's book "The Coachbuilt Packard" offers a great look at these cars although I am guessing most of this group has it. Picked it up at a local bookstore, you know when they put out "general interest books on clearance" for $10.95 back around '90 when it first came out. Surprising to see when available the now out of print book runs around a hundred bucks, but one of my favorites. If in a bookstore now I always take 5 minutes to check out the clearance section.

Rather post link than picture on this 1929 645 Rollston:

Dragone Classic Car Restorations - Located in Bridgeport Connecticut

As nice as the Dragone brothers seem to be I think the site may be copywrighted and you should really read the write up anyway. Prior owner had standard lights on it, not sure if I prefer that or the current woodlights. Tough to miss this car at Hershey this past fall, and they brought it to a few local shows here in CT over the summer.

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I really like both the 37 Rollstons and have seen both in person, and the photos don't do them justice.

The Kirchoff is unusual and has Murphy influence - does that car still exist?

I too have heard of a 38 Rollston convertible victoria, but I have never seen it.

The Murphy town car too is better in person.

I haven't seen a factory custom top hat car, but I am not surprised. How are the proportions in real life? I guess that it doesn't look as good as the normal 1108.

Thanks for the photos - keep them coming!

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Apologies in advance for the poor view of this town car (I may have better pics home) snapped at John Scales' Packard Restoration Co. last winter. Those familiar with this business may know he closed and relocated, and his background has been the subject of discussion on this and other forums. Regardless of the status of the business, this is a very interesting car and he was a good host to our local AACA region. I cannot recall the coachbuilder but remember it as coming out of a Newport, RI estate and the top was tortoise skin (I assume the skin that sits on the shell) which is now illegal to obtain?

I understand restoration stopped on many of these cars and he has since relocated but I do not know any more details including the fate of this unrestored, but complete town car.

IMG_1318A | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

You can see other cars once you get to this site, but most of what he had were very rough, relatively common closed Sr. models of the late 30s.

BTW The well fed guy in the glasses and salmon shirt on the right is me...

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I've always admired the 41 LeBarons, both sport brougham and limo. Of the perhaps 35 remaining, there are 3 of the sport broughams in northern New Jersey, this one owned by Jeff Guss of Wyckoff - it was at the PAC national in Gettysburg this year, and also seen briefly in the movie "The Aviator". The 1941 Rollson 160 was owned for many years by Kevin Gaffney, also here in NJ and just adjacent to it is one of the other sport broughams, this one owned by Steve Wolf and still has functioning factory A/C.

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Edited by Owen_Dyneto
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As a kid there was an old & very wealthy industrialist Mr. Harold Pitcairn of Pittsburg Paint & Pittsburg Plate Glass fame that often would be seen riding around my area in his early 1930s Custom coachwork body Senior Packard High-Top Limo.

It had an unusually high roof-line. The auto looked like a horse carriage coach on a car chassis !

The coachwork may have been transplanted from a much earlier auto ?

And Yes he often still wore his Top Hat & cape while riding in that limo~

Mr. Pitcairn was still living his life as if still in another era in time !

A very strange sight for a kid in the 50s-60s indeed !

Mr Pitcairn still at that time also owned and still drove a fantastic 1930 J 308--2337 Model "J" Duesenberg Murphy Clear Vision Sedan~~

That fantastic original Duesenberg is now currently for sale in Washington State !

The Custom Coachbuilt Packard also still exists today~

Edited by Silverghost (see edit history)
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Silverghost, sorry for going way off topic, but your mention of a Murphy clear-vision Duesenberg reminded me of an incident many years back at the old Ridgefield CT show which was held that year at the Lockwood-Davies (?) mansion just off I-95. There was a roar of an engine, a hush from the crowd, as we all watched one of the McGowan Bros. (Bobbie?) tear down I-95 towards the exit ramp in his Duesenberg Murphy clear-vision sedan, silver and maroon if I recall correctly. Not a sight easily forgotten, or one often seen.

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Not a Super Eight, either by the documentation that accompanied the car when last sold, or by the vehicle number (1101-2X). Engine # is also in the Eight series, not Super Eight. Perhaps the Super lamps were originally specified, or added later? There was some interesting documentation which accompanied those photographs but I'm reluctant to post it without permission from the source (which unfortunately I didn't record).

I also wondered, for such a restrained car, if it originally came with just a bail cap and the flying lady was added later. The donut pusher seems in contradition to the rest of the ornamentation.

Edited by Owen_Dyneto
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I really like that town car. I have seen photos of that body on Packards and other makes also, but I am not sure that I have seen one that has survived. I remember Bill Mc Dowell at Packard Farm telling me about a 34 12 town car that he tried to sell for years and finally parted it out because no one wanted it. I like the blackwall tires and square trunk - and the bail cap would look good too. The painted shutters are interesting too.

I think that the Mix sport brougham went to New Hampshire. There used to be a silver one with air conditioning in Florida, but I don't know where it went after the death of the owner. I wonder if it was silver when new, I think that the owner in Florida bought it out of New Jersey. Mine was originally silver also. I really like the maroon. Does Steve Wolfe still own his? I met him years ago and he seems like a great guy.

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When I was at Tom Mix's, he had photo albums of some of the hundreds of cars that he had owned and it was truly amazing. One that I have never heard of surviving was a 32 Twin Six vee windshield Deitrich runabout/coupe roadster. It must be out there somewhere. I think he owned it in the 50s or 60s.

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38-Packard-12-1608-TownCar-DV-09_MBC-01.jpg

Here's another Rollson I found in Google. I don't consider these to be in the same class as the true customs that were built from the ground up. All Rollson did was cut the front of the top and windshield posts off of a standard sedan and make it into a towncar.

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