Antique or street rod?

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Very nice car, farmer!! I would probably make driving it and enjoying it as is my top priority. not sure where the damage is but I would be focusing on basic servicing of mechanics and finding a nice tour rather than a body shop. it looks pretty darn good. Would be great if your guy could blend rather than re-shoot the whole car. Even if it is a repaint it is clearly an older one, and the car wears it's current paint well!

Why not use the car for a few months and think long and hard before rodding it. Since you asked for opinions, I will give one that is not meant to be offensive. That car is simply too nice to ruin. Even if you sunk a ton of money into it you end up with a "Composite" vehicle not a '34 Pontiac by the time you are done. Also, there are vehicles the hot rodding community already has lots of parts for like early Fords, making for a much easier build for a newcomer. Rare cars almost always require more work, labor and modification that is irreversable once done. Sounds like your body guy is enthused about the car and the prospect of hot rodding it, But you should ask yourself if he is skilled enouogh to take this on in such a way that you would be satisfied with the results. But first ask yourself, do you really want to do that to this car...

Anyway, the main thing is enjoying the hobby. If you don't dive into a full blown restoration or hot rod project, you could be doing that pretty quickly. If it runs and drives ok, chances are basic servicing will bring you up a bit in driveabiltiy.

Good luck with it!!

Edited July 30, 2010 by Steve_Mack_CT
clarity (see edit history)

[poci1957]

Steve is right, a fine looking car that confirms our previous speculation that it is too decent to dismantle for EITHER restoration or (especially) street rodding. As he says, it would be the best to use it NOW rather than have it disassembled for the next few years, and cars of that condition are now recognized as the most fun ownership experience of all, with little worry about chips and scratches.

That said, it sounds like you do have a mechanical problem to deal with and maybe our experienced members could help advise sorting it out. Does the car have a solid axle in front? If so it is rugged and relatively simple but probably needs a rebuild, which you could do yourself with a little research ( Pontiac Parts and Pontiac Auto Parts - California Pontiac Restoration for a free catalog). It probably has old shocks that you are unfamiliar with, and those are likely old, hard tires (and tubes) ready to be replaced. The overheating is common on any car that has sat around, cleaning out the system may be all that is really needed.

And Rusty is absolutely right that cars like this with the wood frame bodies have limitations for street rodding, no matter what rabid street rodders say. But no problem at 55 mph on a 2 lane as the car was designed for. Good luck, Todd C

PS--where are you in central IL? There are two car shows in Bloomington next Saturday (Aug 7) that would be a good start for you if you are close.

Edited July 30, 2010 by poci1957 (see edit history)

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

I don't know if I can cover everything mentioned, but here are a few tidbits. I called the body guy and told him to leave stock. The car had a bad dent in one front fender and one rear fender, also a small dent in the front post and a small dent in the side of roof, plus the one door got pushed in. I ask about touching up, but he said it would be better to paint the whole car. The fenders had been repainted at one time and were starting to scale. The car is currently on blocks with the fenders, wheels and bumpers, and radiator out of it. He has already taken the radiator to get boiled. The front windshield was cracked badly and he has that removed. One headlight lens was broken and I found a replacement for that on the internet. ($100 plus) We can check out the steering better now that the fenders are removed.

I am west of Peoria in a rural community. So Bloomington would be a long drive at 40 MPH, even if it were done. It has a lot of tread on the tires. This model car had some sort of new shock front suspension, which the previous owner supposedly had rebuilt. The brakes appear to be good, perhaps pull to one side a little. I'm hoping the cleaned radiator helps some of my worries. About the only thing that doesn't work is the gas guage. I have added an additive to make the fuel leaded. There is a new set of valves for the engine in the glove box. There was an envelope for a manual that had Peru, Ind. hand written, so I'm thinking that is where the car was sold when new, but just a guess.

I enjoyed the comments about getting the car scratched and letting kids in it. We live on an oiled road and the grandkids enjoy going for rides. More later.

Jerry

[Guest bofusmosby]

Jerry

GREAT looking car!!! I agree that your car is too nice to turn into a hot-rod. Hot rods are a dime a dozen (very common) but your car as it is looks better than any hot-rod could ever look. I think that once you get the car repaired so it runs and drives good, you won't regret keeping it stock. Your car would turn more heads like it is, rather than change it. As far as the interior goes, it doesn't look that bad to me. You might ant to just leave it like it is for a while

Good luck, and keep us posted as to your decision, and the work being done for the repairs.

[poci1957]

That all sounds like a very good start Jerry. And bofusmoby knows from where he speaks, he just entered the forum with his 1930s Pontiac too.

If the suspension (and steering?) was rebuilt then it may just need some partial disassembly, cleaning and adjustment. Others may disagree but in my opinion the lead additive is not really necessary for a low revving car like a 1930s Pontiac (but it can't hurt), and I would certainly not disassemble the engine just to install new valves. I would probably do a simple compression test to see the numbers.

Get a service manual as soon as possible, these cars are very stout and serviceable but you will not find many mechanics with firsthand experience and you and he need some reference material. Get the free catalog from the parts place I mentioned, they are Pontiac specialists and have the parts.

The Bloomington car shows start at the David Davis Mansion from 10-3 on Sat, Aug 7, you might like to come as a spectator if you can. Weather permitting I will probably be there after noon in either a red Alfa Romeo or a 1979 Trans Am. After that my local AACA region (the AACA runs this forum) will host a small show at Culvers West at I-55 and Ill Rt 9 from 4 to 6. Love to talk cars if you can make it, Todd C

[GrayCav56]

Sir,

That is a sweet Poncho. Let me add to the chorus of folks who hope you keep her away from the customizers torch.

You have already read the variety of positions. From hearing of the condition, I think you should continue to improve the car while enjoying it. Getting those bugs worked out are fun to do and give you an excuse to purchase that "special" tool from Sears or Snap-On!

I guarantee that you will meet a TON of folks willing to help you get (and keep) your wonderful find on the road.

[Shop Rat]

.....Getting those bugs worked out are fun to do and give you an excuse to purchase that "special" tool from Sears or Snap-On!

Oh, so you have met my husband Bill!

Get those kids involved too. They can be a part of putting it back on the road and will feel ownership also.

[Guest windjamer]

Jerry, after seeing the pics. rodding that car would be criminal:eek: As outhers have said check out the suspension and steering. Without looking I think you have a solid axel and kingpins,they may need a good lube or possably the linkage is worn. Get it right and that car will handle a two lane snake like PA. road at 55-60 with no problem.

Shoprat, when I retired and quit turning wrenches for a liveing, I had a tool box with a step stool in front so I could see in the top drawer.Like a fool I gave all my air tools to my son,but I kept most of the rest. You NEVER have too many tools.My biggest problem is trying to teach my wife that that Snap-on tourque wrench dosnt belong in her tool box. Please dont pick on Bill, Im sure most of his tools are SAE, and Woodstock is metric.He NEEDS that new wrench.

[Shop Rat]

Shoprat, when I retired and quit turning wrenches for a liveing, I had a tool box with a step stool in front so I could see in the top drawer.Like a fool I gave all my air tools to my son,but I kept most of the rest. You NEVER have too many tools.My biggest problem is trying to teach my wife that that Snap-on tourque wrench dosnt belong in her tool box. Please dont pick on Bill, Im sure most of his tools are SAE, and Woodstock is metric.He NEEDS that new wrench.

Not to worry wj. He has most of the metric tools also. And he will be the first to tell you that I am pretty understanding about him and the need for tools to do jobs. He's very handy and I don't mind him having the tools he needs to do projects and work on vehicles.

The only item I really set my foot down against was a wood chipper. We don't have room to store one and we wouldn't need it often enough to have one. That and he doesn't want the wood chips around here anyway to attract termites now that we have a contract with an extermination company that got rid of all the ones on our lot.

[Guest dokks6t9]

After viewing the pix of this wonderful auto, rodding it would be a FELONY in any state, with the death penalty not severe enough. I'm glad you've decided to restore this great piece of auto history.

[R W Burgess]

Excellent decision.

Thanks for your help too, Susan.

Wayne

[Rusty_OToole]

Definitely keep it stock or sell it to someone who will. Anyone who would suggest rodding a car that nice has total sh*t for brains.

Lead additive is not necessary. That car was made to run on low lead or no lead gas of much lower octane than today's cheapest regular. If you want to be on the safe side add some Marvel Mystery Oil or upper cylinder oil to the gas.

Depending if you have the standard or deluxe model, it may have a conventional axle with 2 leaf springs or a really weird looking independent suspension called "Dubonnet suspension"

This was invented by Andre Dubonnet, son of the French aperitif king and a WW1 flying ace, sports car fan and inventor. General Motors built it under license for a couple of years and called it "Knee Action". This was their first independent front suspension. It was used on Chevrolet and Pontiac.

After a few years it was dropped in favor of a cheaper more durable design. The one weakness of the Dubonnet design is that it had to be kept filled with oil. If the owner neglected it and the oil level got too low it would lead to erratic handling and faster wear.

It needs to be checked and topped up at each oil change with knee action fluid or, a good substitute is hydraulic jack oil.

If that car was in good shape it should have no trouble cruising at 50 to 60 MPH. You wouldn't want to go any faster anyway at least on 2 lane roads.

Blasting around at 80, with a modern engine, might not be the greatest idea anyway especially from the safety angle. I'm still thinking about that wooden body with chicken wire roof.

Speaking of the roof they were made of a material resembling today's vinyl top material. Yours has probably been replaced. When new they were reasonably weather tight. The weak place was the seam around the edge. When the top is replaced this should have a butyl rubber or similar sealer as used to seal windshields. It's OK up to a point but the car should not be parked outside in the rain if you can help it.

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

A reproduction Shop Manual came with the car. Interesting that the manual cost $1 in 1934. Pontiac called the front suspension, Independently Sprung Front Wheels. I will check the oil level in these.

It doesn't appear that the vinyl top has ever been replaced, but perhaps painted. The header in the interior doesn't show any water damage, but there is a big hole where the sun visor contacts it, possibly mouse damage.

By the way, I called the shop guy and told him to leave it stock! He said no problem. I told him we could always build a rod later. It sure would have made a cool street rod. ha ha

I think my wife is happier with this decision also.

Jerry

Edited July 31, 2010 by Midnight Farmer (see edit history)

[Shop Rat]

.....Thanks for your help too, Susan.

Wayne

You are welcome. I try to help where I can.

[Paul Dobbin]

Midnight Farmer wrote:

"I think my wife is happier with this decision also."

We are after all happier seenig the pictures you sent. It's an amazing thing about cars that are survivors, like yours, the antique car community loves to see origninal unrestored but operable vehicles. You will be a hit just like it is and be welcomed wherever you go. If you need a trophy for it, I'll send you one.

My vote is make it safe an operable, add seat belts for your and your family and explore all driving events that the hobby offers. Many of us see the USA in cars of your vintage and older. It's a blast and you'll meet the nicest people.

Welcome to AACA, where the interest in the antique car is that only requirement. From the looks of the pictures, you qualify.

[poci1957]

Midnight Farmer wrote:

"I think my wife is happier with this decision also."

We are after all happier seenig the pictures you sent. It's an amazing thing about cars that are survivors, like yours, the antique car community loves to see origninal unrestored but operable vehicles. You will be a hit just like it is and be welcomed wherever you go.

Absolutely. Think about it this way. That car was bought new by someone at the depth of the depression and carried them through that difficult time and then through WWII. Then it was spared from being abused by teenagers in the 1950s and 1960s. It became a family keepsake and has lasted 76 years, just so some would like to tear it apart, cut the front end off and hack together another street rod? How could someone live with being so destructive and hateful? There are plenty of street rods if you really want one, but this car deserves to live on with respect. Good for you for choosing the high road, hope I will see you around someday, Todd

[GARY F]

sell it to a restorer. go on ebay or craigs list & you will find a lot of cars starting out as a street rod you can pick up.they took a good solid car & cut & hacked & got tired & left to rust.

[Rusty_OToole]

Having seen the pictures that car is in much better shape than I thought. With the new paint and put back into condition mechanically it would be worth $5850 by the Old Cars Report Price Guide.

[Shop Rat]

Having seen the pictures that car is in much better shape than I thought. With the new paint and put back into condition mechanically it would be worth $5850 by the Old Cars Report Price Guide.

And more than the $ value is that if it is put back in service as it was meant to be from the factory, it's value to the future generations is not in $ but in allowing them to see how the automobile evolved through the years. Street rods can not teach that to future generations.

It's like someone adding arms to the Venus de Milo. :eek: You just don't mess with art.

[Paul Dobbin]

Shop Rat wrote: It's like someone adding arms to the Venus de Milo.

I guess that means it's an HPOF car forever, restoration is out of the question.

The Venus de Milo was discovered by a peasant named Yorgos Kentrotas in 1820, inside a buried niche within the ancient city ruins of Milos, on the Aegean island of Milos (also Melos, or Milo). The statue was found in two main pieces (the upper torso and the lower draped legs) along with several herms (pillars topped with heads), fragments of the upper left arm and left hand holding an apple, and an inscribed plinth. Olivier Voutier, a French naval officer, was exploring the island. With the help of the young farmer, Voutier began to dig around what were clearly ancient ruins. Within a few hours Voutier had uncovered a piece of art that would become renowned throughout the world.

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

Rusty, I like my values better that I found from NADA. $6476, 10,450, 14,650 I would hope it might fall in the middle as for condition. At any rate, I didn't buy it to make money, I bought it because it looks neat.

We visited a real nice car collection in Fairbanks last Fall. Maybe that had something to do with my final decision. Jerry

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

Sorry I don't know what HPOF car is.

[Dave@Moon]

Sorry I don't know what HPOF car is.

Historic Preservation of Original Features. It's a category in AACA for pure original cars that are too good to restore, but not in the showy/perfect condition typical of a restored car. It's designed to preserve the intrinsic and communal value of cars that really are exactly the same as the day they were new, as opposed to restored to (hopefully) that condition.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

As far as value, a "semi restored" '34 Pontiac 4 door needing some mechanical work to be reliable and considerable detailing sold on E-Bay Thursday for a Buy It Now $15000. It will not be rodded but kept as a driver.

[Shop Rat]

Shop Rat wrote: It's like someone adding arms to the Venus de Milo.

I guess that means it's an HPOF car forever, restoration is out of the question.

No, not what I meant by that. That comment was in referrence to changing it to a street rod which was the last part of the sentence above that.

[joe_padavano]

As far as value, a "semi restored" '34 Pontiac 4 door needing some mechanical work to be reliable and considerable detailing sold on E-Bay Thursday for a Buy It Now $15000. It will not be rodded but kept as a driver.

And yet, at the same time ANOTHER 34 Pontiac did not meet reserve at just over $5000. If you regularly check completed auctions on ebay, you find that most of the high dollar cars do not meet reserve, and even the cars that allegedly DO sell often end up listed for sale again a few weeks later. Frankly, nothing on ebay means anything as far as value is concerned until cash actually changes hands.

[poci1957]

Frankly, nothing on ebay means anything as far as value is concerned until cash actually changes hands.

Joe is correct in this statement of course. Regrettably lots of hobbyists have become more interested in the money than the cars. We see this in that for many the holy grail of old cars is no longer Hershey (an exhibit of the restorer's accomplishments) but the TV auctions (an exhibit of buying and selling).

Fortunately MidnightFarmer has the right attitude when he says he did not buy it to make money but because he likes it.

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

Kind of interesting how I bought the car. The neighbor lived about two miles away and had the car in a shed which I did not remember ever seeing. It seems his two kids bought it for him as a present around 1970. The neighbor passed away a few years ago. When the tornado took away the house and out buildings, there sat the Pontiac exposed to the world. My wife and I were up to the neighbors helping clean up. The son and I were looking at the car and he said I guess I should get ahold of the guy that wanted to buy it. I said, "I would be interested in buying it". I went home and told my wife that I bought her a present. She was good with that.

I took the auto manual to the mechanic yesterday. I took along my camera to take some pictures while the car is dismantled. When I got home to look at them, I realized the camera did not have the card in it. I guess I need to wear my reading glasses more!

Jerry

[poci1957]

That is a pretty good story, and even better in finding the car to be a particularly attractive model like a 1934 Pontiac.

[Shop Rat]

Two additional photos just showed up from Midnight Farmer he would like to share. Enjoy.

[oldwood]

That car screams Bonnie and Clyde or Machine Gun Kelly. Thanks for leaving it alone for the next care giver.

[mrspeedyt]

Kind of interesting how I bought the car. The neighbor lived about two miles away and had the car in a shed which I did not remember ever seeing. It seems his two kids bought it for him as a present around 1970. The neighbor passed away a few years ago. When the tornado took away the house and out buildings, there sat the Pontiac exposed to the world. My wife and I were up to the neighbors helping clean up. The son and I were looking at the car and he said I guess I should get ahold of the guy that wanted to buy it. I said, "I would be interested in buying it". I went home and told my wife that I bought her a present. She was good with that.

Jerry

unusual twist of the term 'barn find'......

[stealthbob]

unusual twist of the term 'barn find'......

Yeash....

When a car is this good while being this old the owner is merely its care taker for the next person to take over.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to "our" side Farmer...you won't regret it.

[Restorer32]

And yet, at the same time ANOTHER 34 Pontiac did not meet reserve at just over $5000. If you regularly check completed auctions on ebay, you find that most of the high dollar cars do not meet reserve, and even the cars that allegedly DO sell often end up listed for sale again a few weeks later. Frankly, nothing on ebay means anything as far as value is concerned until cash actually changes hand

Regarding the car I am referencing this was a legitimate purchase by a hobbyist where money did (actually will) indeed change hands so the sale can be plotted on the bell curve of values. It was not purchased for resale.

[Guest bofusmosby]

I bought my car off Ebay, and I guess I got lucky. I paid $4,000 for mine, and I have been told by those who know old cars that I got a really good deal on mine. I am not in it for the money, but rather the love (passion) of history. I wouldn't dare tell my wife how much money I have spent on my car so far, and to be honest with you, I really don't want to think about it myself.... I know that I will never re-coop my investment on mine, but what the hey, I am having a ball working on it, and even though it is drivable, there are still a few things that need to be done before I am ready to drive it any distance.

Jerry (Midnight Farmer), I like your idea on you buying it for you wife. Thats a great way to get her involved with it. It sounds to me that you and that car were meant to be. Have fun with it! By 1937, the gangster days were pretty much over. BUT, in 1934, they were still going on. Driving your car dressed like a gangster is more in line with your car, not mine. As far as value goes, does it really matter? Now, if you were in it for an investment, that would be different, but your car is something to have fun in. How can you put a price tag on that?

[Guest kaycee]

Hi Midnight Faemer,

I'm a neighbor of yours up in LaSalle, and have been following your post. I have a special interest in your car because my late father's family abd he owned a '34 Pontiac 2 dr, and remember many stories my father told me about the car. He (before he was married and I was born) rolled it over, and I heard many times how he 'ironed out' and leaded the top left side. He was always a 'jack of all trades'. I picked up an early interest in cars since I was young because of him, and the last five years I've been buying literature and ads on eBay on every car my dad or I have owned back to a '28 Pontiac which I bought with my dad back in 1958 which I still own. I looked at the '34 Pontiac factory brochures and ads that I have, and there were a lot of colors available (dark blue (my favorite), maroon, dark green, a brown/tan, sort of a medium yellow,and black, so your bodyshop can paint it any of these colors depending on what you wish. Sorry, I do'nt think I have any color chips this old other than for my 20's cars, but maybe one of the big literature dealers do.

Like most of the responses you've had, I hope you decide to keep this car original. It's too nice and too scarce to rod! Incidentally, the front suspension was called knee action by Pontiac (and probably Buick), and incorporated the shocks inside the front springs encased in a oil filled reservoir attached to the spindles, not a solid front axle.

It's among my favorite cars along with the '34 Buick as far as looks are concerned.

If you need more info, do'nt hesitate to PM or e-mail me. littleeight@att.net

kaycee

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

My wife and my bodyman are both leaning towards leaving the car black. Black is really sharp, if you can keep it clean. The bumpers have been painted silver so it appears. Is it a good idea to get them rechromed?

Jerry

[Shop Rat]

Is it a good idea to get them rechromed?

Jerry

They should go back to whatever they were when it rolled out of the factory to be correct for the AACA standards.

[Guest]

My wife and my bodyman are both leaning towards leaving the car black. Black is really sharp, if you can keep it clean. The bumpers have been painted silver so it appears. Is it a good idea to get them rechromed?

Jerry

Midnight Farmer, There is a chapter of AACA called Oakland-Pontiac Worldwide Region. You can find this link when you first open the AACA webb site. Click on community section and on to local clubs, they are at the almost very bottom of the section. There are two 34's that are black in their picture gallery so you can see what your car would look like. FYI all bumpers were chrome.

Don

[Guest Midnight Farmer]

Thanks Don. I know the bolts on the bumper are chrome, so that helps to know that. I will check out the pictures. Jerry