MarkV Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 Well, my friend and I got a great laugh when we saw a Cimarron! So, what do you know about these pathetic caddys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpushbutton Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 There are proof that you can't fool the public by putting a badge on a J-car POS and charge twice as much as the Chevy Cavalier and keep your brand image strong. Roger Smith gave Lexus and Mercedes the keys to the professional set with this joke. They even lowered themselves to the FoMoCo bankrupt logic that "the engine is made of all of the parts that met the highest standards of inspection" meaning that the parts were selected from the run of parts for the dogmeat Cavalier/whatever engine and the ones they got right go into the Cimmaron engine, ala' Lincoln. So if I buy the Chevy, Pontiac, Olds or Buick J-car I'm getting the B or C grade engine?Bob Luta and his team has finally restored the luster of Cadillac, in passenger cars, let's hope it keeps going long enough to get back those buyers who think only good cars come from Germany and Japan. I'd like to think the new Cadillacs are good cars, time, miles and repair bills will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 (edited) My favorite Cimarron story.When the guy in charge of the project was pitching it to senior management a wiser more experienced executive took him aside and said "You better watch your step. You are doing awfully well in there and if you aren't careful you are going to get your wish. And I want you to know that you don't have enough talent, and GM doesn't have enough money to turn that sh*tbox into a Cadillac".Later he admitted "He was right".Sorry I don't remember the names of the executives involved. Edited May 10, 2010 by Rawja expletive (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 They were actually pretty decent cars by the end of the run when they finally received a V6 and more distinctive styling, but the car which had been rushed into production ahead of what had been originally scheduled (for a fuel crisis that never materialized), had already become an object of derision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpushbutton Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 That is a Seville pictured there (above) not a Cimmaron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 A pic of a Cimarron and why Time calls it one of the 50 worst cars of all time.1982 Cadillac Cimarron - The 50 Worst Cars of All Time - TIME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Rusty,To me, "badge engineering" is kind of a shell game, even if the product you're trying to sell isn't that bad. I'm assuming the name for the car came from the river in southwest Kansas, which is more of a mirage than a river most of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 There was a movie "Cimarron" dealing, I think, with the Oklahoma land rush.I assumed the names were associated.Not being from that part of the country, I didn't know it was a river. There are three kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkV Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 1930, won best picture, my great grandfather is in that movie, and he has a scene where he is blowing his bugle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5219 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 It is easy to laugh at the Cimarron today, but at the time, I recall that they sold in large numbers. There were a lot of them on the road. Today, they have all disappeared, but I bet they were a moneymaker for GM, since the were selling a Cavalier and getting an almost DeVille price.Speaking of another joke, does anybody recall the Granada-based Lincoln Versaille. This was a Granada tarted up with a faux Continental kit, a padded roof, and a Mark IV type grille. I don't believe that they sold as well as the Cimarron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Braverman Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 The sad part of the Cimarron story, is that a lot of people actually bought them. Goes to show that people will buy anything if it's marketed right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 It is easy to laugh at the Cimarron today, but at the time, I recall that they sold in large numbers. There were a lot of them on the road. Despite being the lowest priced Caddy every year (by as much as $8000.00), the Cimarron never made up more than 10% of Cadillac sales in any one year. It's sales hovered around 20-25,000 from 1982 to 1986, dropped to 14,000 for 1987, and dropped to 6500 for 1988 (according to The Standard Catalog of Cadillac). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john2dameron Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I never saw many of them around. Rode in one once. Cavalier at double the price. Why? I have no idea. Another stupid GM idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I recall as a young Chevy salesman in 1990 I took a Cimmaron in trade. Being aware of it's derision from old car circles I took a ride and found it to be the nicest J car you could ever want, with a good V6 and leather power seat. But still not a suitable Cadillac. I did not realize it's sales numbers were as good as Dave mentions, I certainly saw very few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweepspear Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 It is easy to laugh at the Cimarron today, but at the time, I recall that they sold in large numbers. There were a lot of them on the road. Today, they have all disappeared, but I bet they were a moneymaker for GM, since the were selling a Cavalier and getting an almost DeVille price.I recall seeing many of them in the Mpls. area. I think GM assumed no one would make the connection between the Cavalier and the Cimmaron. Most likely, only those with an interest in cars knew what they did. Speaking of another joke, does anybody recall the Granada-based Lincoln Versaille. This was a Granada tarted up with a faux Continental kit, a padded roof, and a Mark IV type grille. I don't believe that they sold as well as the Cimarron.I still see one roaming the streets near me.Not a great car by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC400 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Speaking of another joke, does anybody recall the Granada-based Lincoln Versaille. This was a Granada tarted up with a faux Continental kit, a padded roof, and a Mark IV type grille. I don't believe that they sold as well as the Cimarron.Lincoln : eBay Motors (item 290434605817 end time May-18-10 18:31:48 PDT)You mean this isn't stunning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Marketing the CimarronIf memory serves me right - was not the Cimarron sold under the"Cimarron by Cadillac" and not as a "Cadillac Cimarron"? Probably the same difference but there was some seperation there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC400 Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Wasn't it also "Riviera by Buick"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5219 Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 looking at the Versaille coupe on Ebay, I recall that somebody once described the seventies as a slum of a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 Wasn't it also "Riviera by Buick"?My '69 Electra says "Electra 225 by Buick" on the trunk badge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 I tried to find one a few years ago but it would of been a donor to swap a V6 in a Pontiac sunbird convertible but could never find one and gave up on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mellor NJ Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 I believe the Versaille was in competition with the Seville,not the Cimarron. they even had something of a bustle back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 Ya gotta give it to GM. They did a better job disguising a Nova then Ford did disguising a Granada... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_a Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 If a Cimarron was a re-done Cavalier, then what was a Catera? All I remember about it is the phrase "The Cadillac That Zigs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ken bogren Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 I.. what was a Catera? ... The Catera was based on the Opel Omega sedan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC400 Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 Ya gotta give it to GM. They did a better job disguising a Nova then Ford did disguising a Granada...The Granada had very sculpted sides. So it was impossible to disguise it even with new front, rear, roof, etc. It would have had to have all new sheetmetal to remove it. The Cavalier had smooth sides, so no problem with identifiable side sculpting. Yet it still looks more like a Cavalier, and is usually mistaken for one until you take a second look. I am not a fan of the Versailles, but would much rather have one than a Cimarron. The Nova Seville doesn't impress me either. I'd rather have an '80-'85. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 If you could not tell the early Seville (77-9( was based on a Nova you were blind,the 80 and up were just a 4 door version of a Eldo,Riviera or Toronada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 63Stude Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 If you could not tell the early Seville (77-9( was based on a Nova you were blind,the 80 and up were just a 4 door version of a Eldo,Riviera or Toronada.I do not believe there was a single piece of sheet metal that interchanged from a Nova to a Seville, nor an interior piece. The Versailles shared most sheet metal with the Granada, and also the instrument panel and all glass.To me, that's even more egregious than making a Cimarron out of a Cavalier, in that a Versailles was a much-more expensive car than a Cimarron (adjusting for inflation of course).Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 The early Sevilles might not of shared much sheetmetal but you can still tell it was based off a nova as it just had the look of one,I hated pulling a seat out of one as the doors would not open wide enough or the door panel stuck out too much. If I can remember correctly the door panels (drivers side mainly) would fall apart after a few years and was hard to repair right,I am glad I did not spend the money to buy one of those three when they were new since they were just over glorified versions of what they were based on and not worth the extra money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 just yesterday i ran across a cimarron that is still on the road....and last week i saw a stock running vega !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scottyz06 Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 A very bad time for Cadilliac !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 I did see a early Seville on the road the other day and will see a Citation now and then but have not seen a Cimaron for a couple years,one would think that you would still see quite a few 80s vehicles on the road but I see more older vehicles then the early to mid 80s. Either they were just not that good or the harsh Ohio winters took them out,I cant believe the manufactures produced those over glorified cheap cars and the gullible public that fell for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINC400 Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 I do not believe there was a single piece of sheet metal that interchanged from a Nova to a Seville, nor an interior piece. The Versailles shared most sheet metal with the Granada, and also the instrument panel and all glass.To me, that's even more egregious than making a Cimarron out of a Cavalier, in that a Versailles was a much-more expensive car than a Cimarron (adjusting for inflation of course).BillI have heard before that the Seville shared practically nothing with a Nova. Don't know if that is true or not, but if it is, then I think it is even worse than a Versailles because GM went through a lot of extra effort and expense to produce a car that looks like and everyone thinks is just a dressed up Nova. As far as Versailles vs. Cimarron, the Granada was at least being marketed as a plush smaller car. The Cavalier was just the bottom of the line Chevy sold at double the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Maine Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 As I recall, the first Sevilles had very little in common with the Nova. They may have shared a wheelbase or something, but that was about it. Those Sevilles were very nice looking cars for the time, much better than the horrid bustleback with the 241 V8 that followed. The Lincoln Versailles was brought out to compete with the Seville, but as everyone has said, they were little more than gussied up Granadas. There are still some around. The later Cimarrons were decent vehicles, but they never overcame their Cavalier origins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 The original Seville was based on the GM X-car platform. Gussied up and massaged, yes, but it was based on Nova. They did designate the X-special as the K body. Basic architecture was X, but changed enough to give it its own body designation. I expect Cadillac had a little more pride about it back then too, as opposed to later when they got that ratty little J-car.Nova, Omega, Ventura, Apollo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slipjoint Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 If you could not tell the early Seville (77-9( was based on a Nova you were blind,the 80 and up were just a 4 door version of a Eldo,Riviera or Toronada. i was a young man selling Cadallic's in Spokane, WA when the Seville came out - i had a white one with black leather for a demo (in those days we got a driver as a perk) - i actually enjoyed the car - we had 12 or 13 in stock when we got a note from Cadillac - all of the wire harness had to be replaced - this was a huge deal but the dealership handled it! i was thinking they had to do a frame off on each one but maybe not? - i do know it took alot of man hours to do all of them, - tom PictureTrail - Gallery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest buzzflood Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Cadillac did not produce the Cimmaron because they thought it was a great idea. They were forced to add it to their line because of CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy). Federal legislation required that the average fuel economy of all Cadillacs sold not exceed a certain level. Since Cadillac could not get their then-current product line down to that level, they had to add a rebadged Cavalier to their line, in order to bring the average down.And, it is true that Cadillac did not market it as the Cadillac Cimmaron. They knew it wasn't a Cadillac, so they called it the Cimmaron by Cadillac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 I think I remember a Opel by Isuzu too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I think I remember a Opel by Isuzu too.I think my '90 Geo Storm had an Isuzu engine....all 93 hp of it.What can I say, I was young and stupid...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyardjeff Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 I always knew what a Opel was but when they said it was by Isuzu I had no clue what was going on at that time,today a Isuzu is nothing to get excited about like back then and last weekend I seen a Buick version of the Citation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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