Mid 70s to early 80s Collectible Ever?

March 22, 2010

rocketraider · March 22, 2010

If you like these cars and can find a nice one cheap, who cares whether it will ever be collectible?

My 1976 Ninety Eight has been one of the most enjoyable cars I've ever owned, but I doubt it will ever be a financial windfall. I like the car. That's what counts.

March 22, 2010

I agree Rocketraider; I am not looking for a financial windfall just wondering what others though of these cars. Like you say when I find one for the right price I will buy it, hoping parts will be available. Also please ignore the crazy smiley faces I did not intentionally put them in.

28 Chrysler · March 22, 2010

I sold my father in law's 1974 Olds Toronado with 42k on the clock to a fellow that can't quit grinning when he drives or shows it.

TG57Roadmaster · March 22, 2010

I think that absolutely the cars will become collectible, with a market driven by those who grew up with them, myself included. It's all a matter of supply and demand, with low-mileage keepers the best place to sock away your dough.

There are plenty of styles and sizes to choose from, from sportsters like Shelby Chargers & GLHS's to the luxo-barge '76 Fleetwood Broughams. I'd enjoy having one of both ends of the spectrum, as the Shelby I had was a fun-to-drive rocket, and those plush Fleetwoods are dilectible highway (or anywhere) cruisers.

Most anyone who can turn a wrench can work on them, and there were some decent designs from all of the Big Three. I think we'll be happily surprized at car shows soon with what's gonna start turning up.

TG

poci1957 · March 22, 2010

Hello Daytona, there are a couple of lengthy recent threads on this subject you could look up. There are a few of us here that think these cars are the bargan way to enjoy the hobby. Most agree that they will likely not become big money items, and some scoff that they are not old enough to be interesting, but that is in the eye of the beholder, of course.

LINC400 · March 22, 2010

I owned a 1978 Continental Mark V for 6 years, a 1979 Mark V for 11 years, and a 1976 Mark IV for 2 years. The Mark V's were used as daily drivers. In all that time I never had any problems getting parts to keep them on the road. The drivetrain is the same in the Town Car. The only difficulty is in getting interior trim parts.

1970's cars are finally first starting to get some respect. But I do not see them taking off in price anytime soon. They were well built and high production, so a lot still exist. Plus they still have a stigma of bad gas mileage and being too big, even though they are really not any worse on gas or bigger than 1960's or some 1950's cars. And if you are driving it as a collector vehicle, gas mileage really isn't an issue.

They are a great bargain to get into the old car hobby. Depending on what you buy, Town Car, Fleetwood, New Yorker for example, there isn't much a new car can offer as far as equipment that these cars don't, except for computer stuff. But that means no computer repairs.

March 22, 2010

There was not much in the way of computer technology in cars of this era. Electronic ignition became standard during this period and early engine management computers came in 1981 (for GM)... As others have said, because production was high & so many mechanical components were shared within a given manufacturer, these parts should not be a problem for many years to come. Exterior & exterior trim items will be a problem but I think this has always been the case with any older car. My biggest concern is the deterioration of exterior plastic parts which just don't hold up with UV, heat & cold. At least for many (or most ?) GM cars of this era, 'decent' ABS bumper fillers are being reproduced.

The fun is driving these cars. My 26 year old 1984 Toronado is a daily driver & I enjoy every mile. The Queen Mary will roll over this week to 190,000 miles and the drivetrain is smoother than ever.

Paul

Edited March 22, 2010 by pfloro (see edit history)

March 22, 2010

as stated....eventually everyone will want to relive a part of his youth...be it something you owned, your dad or a car that seemed just out of reach when you were young..

poci1957 · March 22, 2010

as stated....eventually everyone will want to relive a part of his youth...be it something you owned, your dad or a car that seemed just out of reach when you were young..

Exactly right, and in the 1970s and 1980s there were still plenty of cars that were desired by teenagers who could not buy them then and would like one now (I especially expect to see growth in 1980s Camaro/Firebird/Mustangs). There are also expressive personal luxury cars like the Toronado and the last of the big cars like the Lincolns and such. Plenty of interesting cars there.

stock_steve · March 22, 2010

Don't forget this unique combination of late-'30s styling, legendary ruggedness, and ease of maintenance: The VW Beetle, of course.

They sold a ton of 'em new, and a lot of them are still kicking around, and the old VW hobby scene appears, if anything, to still be growing, evem though the last air cooleds were sold in the US in 1979.

Fellow old-VW enthusiast "charlier" from the AACA Forum can also probably chime in about the growing popularity of early water-cooled VWs now also (i.e. Rabbits, Sciroccos, etc.).

earl e rizer · March 22, 2010

Lot's of good cheap luxury cars available from that era. They are cheap and probably destined to stay that way for 3 reasons;

1) price of fuel. Those barges are very thirsty, especially the Ford products.

2) size. They are cumbersome to park and put in storage.

3) looks. Let's face it most of them are kinda ugly and the interiors look chintzy.

I know I'm going to get lots of negative comments on this post but it's generally the truth. I may not agree with the above opinions on those cars as I do like a lot of them.

The 79-85 Riv's ,Toro's & Eldo's for example are a very nice driver and plenty cheap, just the way I like 'em.

Dave@Moon · March 22, 2010

Lot's of good cheap luxury cars available from that era. They are cheap and probably destined to stay that way for 3 reasons;
1) price of fuel. Those barges are very thirsty, especially the Ford products.
2) size. They are cumbersome to park and put in storage.
3) looks. Let's face it most of them are kinda ugly and the interiors look chintzy.
I know I'm going to get lots of negative comments on this post but it's generally the truth. I may not agree with the above opinions on those cars as I do like a lot of them.
The 79-85 Riv's ,Toro's & Eldo's for example are a very nice driver and plenty cheap, just the way I like 'em.

I don't know about "truth". I doubt it exists any more. But yours is the consensus opinion among both hobbiests and the general public.

I would add that "cumbersome" relates to many things beyond size. A Pinto or Gremlin is "cumbersome" in it's handling as much as any LeSabre or Town & Country. Styling as well in that era is best described as cumbersom. The chief exception being sports cars from that era. RX-7s, 944s, 924s, 240/260/280 Zs, Corvettes, etc. transcend the problems of the 1970s & 1980s.

And it is those sports cas that alone are following the value curves typical of the Mustangs/Bel Airs/Avantis of our past. You can find originality guides for all of the cars I just mentioned. There were several originality guides published for 1965-1975 Mustangs/Camaros/Barracudas/etc. before many of them were 10 years old. (Mustang Does It was published in 1978 as an originality guide for models through 1973, for example.) Good luck trying to find a guide for LTD IIs or Sunbirds!

The Falcon Club of America was founded in 1979, but there still is no Ford Fairmont Club (which should have been founded almost 20 years ago (in 1992) if interest in essentially the same type car was similar).

At this point (35 years after production for some of these cars) if no one's interested enough in them to produce literature and material or start marque-specific clubs for the hobbiest, it's likely never going to happen.

So therefore I forsee the collectibility of cars beyond 1976 to be far more selective than it has been in the recent past. Miatas are already very collectible. Ford Escort EXPs...., not so much.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Dave@Moon
wrong Ford Escort name (see edit history)

poci1957 · March 23, 2010

Big picture, I would say Dave's observations are largely correct--there are far fewer "icon" collector cars of the 1970s & 80s compared to, say 1955-72. I too recall collector interest (from myself, in fact) in musclecars from 1968-72 in the early 1980s when they were as little as 12-15 years old. Hard to imagine such interest today for a 1998 model, times have changed.

But that will just mean more 1970s-80s cars for those of us that like them. I still think these cars have the potential to bring in a new batch of hobbyists that will enjoy them for their driveability and reasonable cost without fighting with speculators running up the cost like with earlier models. Restoration parts will be limited on most models, but one will not have to pay $1000 for a used intake manifold either! Granted the speculation value will not be as hot as with musclecars, but anyone who is only interested in a quick buck is in the wrong place here anyway. I say find a nice original 1970s car for half the cost of a 1960s version and drive and enjoy it in air conditioned and cruise controlled comfort! Todd C

earl e rizer · March 23, 2010

The "Malaise Era" cars will not be the big dollar cars their ancestors are now. I have a few of them. The 79 Trans Am I now have is in very nice shape but is a $10k car on the best of days and I haven't seen those days since early '08. I did manage to get a bit over $3k for my 79 Chrysler 300 but that was a long struggle. There is a glut of these era cars on the local market right now and not much demand so actual selling prices are down. A great time to be flush with cash and room for storage. I have been tempted on a '82 Riv convertible but just too cash poor to even nibble at $4k!

LINC400 · March 23, 2010

I don't know about "truth". I doubt it exists any more. But yours is the consensus opinion among both hobbiests and the general public.
I would add that "cumbersome" relates to many things beyond size. A Pinto or Gremlin is "cumbersome" in it's handling as much as any LeSabre or Town & Country. Styling as well in that era is best described as cumbersom. The chief exception being sports cars from that era. RX-7s, 944s, 924s, 240/260/280 Zs, Corvettes, etc. transcend the problems of the 1970s & 1980s.
And it is those sports cas that alone are following the value curves typical of the Mustangs/Bel Airs/Avantis of our past. You can find originality guides for all of the cars I just mentioned. There were several originality guides published for 1965-1975 Mustangs/Camaros/Barracudas/etc. before many of them were 10 years old. (Mustang Does It was published in 1978 as an originality guide for models through 1973, for example.) Good luck trying to find a guide for LTD IIs or Sunbirds!
The Falcon Club of America was founded in 1979, but there still is no Ford Fairmont Club (which should have been founded almost 20 years ago (in 1992) if interest in essentially the same type car was similar).
At this point (35 years after production for some of these cars) if no one's interested enough in them to produce literature and material or start marque-specific clubs for the hobbiest, it's likely never going to happen.
So therefore I forsee the collectibility of cars beyond 1976 to be far more selective than it has been in the recent past. Miatas are already very collectible. Ford Escort EXPs...., not so much.

The reason Mustangs/Camaros/'Cudas need originality guides is because everyone bolted on all kinds of aftermarket crap either for performance or to keep them running cheaply. Nobody is bolting on all kinds of aftermarket crap on Town Cars, Fleetwoods, and Fairmonts. Plus since the majority are kept stock, there are plenty of examples to refer to if you do need to remove some aftermarket part. So I really don't see any reason to make originality guides for these cars.

In the early 1960's most manufacturers produced 3-4 different models tops. By the late 1970's, most manufacturers were offering 7 or more different models. So obviously collector interest will be split among the different models, unlike with 1957 Chevys where you had 2 models, full size and Corvette.

Falcon, Corvair, and other such clubs were formed because those cars were unlike the regular full size models which got all the attention. But with so many different models in the 1970's, there is really no reason for a seperate club for every model when many models share mechanicals and other aspects, and there are already plenty of existing clubs where those models will be accepted.

Most people start buying up their childhood toys, cars, etc. when they hit their 50's and 60's looking to relive their youth. That is when prices skyrocket. People that grew up with 1970's cars have not hit that age yet.

Currently in the Lincoln club, the majority of cars in the club are 1960's and 1970's cars. If they haven't already, 1970's cars will soon take over as the most popular decade in the club. A Mark series Lincoln with less than 20,000 miles can command $20,000. Plenty of much more rare 1950's and 1960's cars will not approach that price.

1957 Chevys were collectible early while most other 1950's cars were ignored. That does not mean 1950's Mercurys, Buicks, Oldsmobiles, Pontiacs, and Hudsons were bad, and Chevys were superior to them all. 1960's Lincolns enjoyed a run of being in demand in the late 1970's early 1980's. That eventually fizzled, and they have never regained the popularity they had at that time.

The reasons given why 1970's cars will never be collectible, bad gas mileage, bad handling, cheap materials, poor quality, do not apply only to 1970's cars, and it does not apply to all 1970's cars either. They are usually just given by people that simply don't like those cars or by those that have heard the stereotypes, yet have never bothered to actually have any experience with the cars.

Restorer32 · March 23, 2010

"Will they be collectible?" and "Will they appreciate substantially in price?" are two different questions. Will they be collectible? Of course. Salt and pepper shakers are collectible, as are stamps, barbed wire, McDonalds toys and worn out Nascar tires. Are they good investments for the future? Doubtful in my opinion.

Dave@Moon · March 23, 2010

Nobody is bolting on all kinds of aftermarket crap on Town Cars, Fleetwoods, and Fairmonts.

Really? Were you there? This was the beginning of the era where "stock" was a real detriment to a car's performance. Most of the people I knew kept their new cars "stock" for about a month. Then they started buying books from Petersen Publishing trying to make their new car run as well as their old one, or else going back to the dealer to have their cars "made right" (see the thread on Frank Sinatra Edition Chryslers).

Meanwhile pathetic interior materials disintegrated faster than the payment book for all cars. This was no worse than for 1960s plastics, except that these materials were beginning to become the structural materials they are now. Seats and dashboards suffered the most. The Kmart I worked in in the late 1970s stocked an entire aisle of seat covers. You might find a dozen or so seat covers tops in Wal-Mart today.

Your interest appears to be in luxury cars from this era, which were almost always garaged and cared for by their owners in ways few Chevys can match. It is not a fair comparison to use their condition today as a measure of typical cars from this era.

Most people start buying up their childhood toys, cars, etc. when they hit their 50's and 60's looking to relive their youth. That is when prices skyrocket. People that grew up with 1970's cars have not hit that age yet.

I graduated high school in 1976. I'm 52 next month. What do you suppose my classmates are waiting for?

I should point out that my collector cars are 1970 and a 1975 models, although I've long wanted cars from eras I can't remember. Those cars are European sports cars (Triumph TR6s), whose quality of manufacture was largely unchanged from 1960s models. (TR7s were another matter entirely, however!:eek:) However by 1995 you could build an entire TR6 from reproduction parts (including new frames and body tubs), much the same way you could build a 1965 Mustang, 1969 Chevelle, or 1957 Chevy (and at roughly the same date as well).

It's 2010. Where's the simlarly complete reproduction parts catalog for 1985 Celicas or 1982 Camaros?

The reasons given why 1970's cars will never be collectible, bad gas mileage, bad handling, cheap materials, poor quality, do not apply only to 1970's cars, and it does not apply to all 1970's cars either. They are usually just given by people that simply don't like those cars or by those that have heard the stereotypes, yet have never bothered to actually have any experience with the cars.

Most of us on this forum were there. Most of us were making payments on these cars, and relying on them to get to work when they were new. If I got the kind of quality today in the cars of that era I personally had to deal with (specifically brand new 1976 Aspen, 1974 Econoline, 1982 Oldsmobile Firenza, 1984 AMC Alliance, and several used/fleet cars), I'd sue.

It was that bad.:mad:

Edited March 23, 2010 by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

Dave@Moon · March 23, 2010

"Will they be collectible?" and "Will they appreciate substantially in price?" are two different questions. Will they be collectible? Of course. Salt and pepper shakers are collectible, as are stamps, barbed wire, McDonalds toys and worn out Nascar tires. Are they good investments for the future? Doubtful in my opinion.

Well said!

For a completely different reason cars of the early 1950s aren't as "collectible"/valuable as cars from the eras before and after. I think the future collectibility/value of 1982 Fords will be roughly the same as the pattern set by 1952 Fords. There are a few selective models from that era that "broke out" from the crowd in value terms (1953 Studebaker coupes, 1953 Eldorados, XK 120s, 1949 Buick & Olds hardtops, etc.) with interest among collectors similar to cars from the 1955-57 or 1932-34 eras, but most are lower cost alternatives to the expensive collector cars of other eras.

People may love 1951 Pontiacs. One of my best friends does. They're great cars, regardless of financial value. He was able to get a great one last year for rusty Taurus money, and is enjoying it the way it should be (instead of keeping it in a plastic bubble because it's too valuable to risk driving it).

It's not such a bad thing that the car you're interested in isn't an object of desire for thousands!

LINC400 · March 23, 2010

Really? Were you there? This was the beginning of the era where "stock" was a real detriment to a car's performance. Most of the people I knew kept their new cars "stock" for about a month. Then they started buying books from Petersen Publishing trying to make their new car run as well as their old one, or else going back to the dealer to have their cars "made right" (see the thread on Frank Sinatra Edition Chryslers).
Meanwhile pathetic interior materials disintegrated faster than the payment book for all cars. This was no worse than for 1960s plastics, except that these materials were beginning to become the structural materials they are now. Seats and dashboards suffered the most. The Kmart I worked in in the late 1970s stocked an entire aisle of seat covers. You might find a dozen or so seat covers tops in Wal-Mart today.
Your interest appears to be in luxury cars from this era, which were almost always garaged and cared for by their owners in ways few Chevys can match. It is not a fair comparison to use their condition today as a measure of typical cars from this era.
I graduated high school in 1976. I'm 52 next month. What do you suppose my classmates are waiting for?
I should point out that my collector cars are 1970 and a 1975 models, although I've long wanted cars from eras I can't remember. Those cars are European sports cars (Triumph TR6s), whose quality of manufacture was largely unchanged from 1960s models. (TR7s were another matter entirely, however!:eek:) However by 1995 you could build an entire TR6 from reproduction parts (including new frames and body tubs), much the same way you could build a 1965 Mustang, 1969 Chevelle, or 1957 Chevy (and at roughly the same date as well).
It's 2010. Where's the simlarly complete reproduction parts catalog for 1985 Celicas or 1982 Camaros?
Most of us on this forum were there. Most of us were making payments on these cars, and relying on them to get to work when they were new. If I got the kind of quality today in the cars of that era I personally had to deal with (specifically brand new 1976 Aspen, 1974 Econoline, 1982 Oldsmobile Firenza, 1984 AMC Alliance, and several used/fleet cars), I'd sue.
It was that bad.:mad:

Yes, I was there in the 1970's. While my interest now is in luxury cars, at the time we owned Fords. We never put any aftermarket parts on our cars and they ran just fine. Neither did any of the neighbors with Pontiacs, Chevys, and Buicks. If you had such lousy experiences with '70's inexpensive Chrysler products, why did you keep buying them? And really, you're going to tell me that a Triumph is more reliable than a 1970's Impala? The Sinatra Imperial is no comparison. Any car with new technology (or new for them) is going to have some problems.

On the other hand every high school kid was always at the auto parts store looking for stuff to bolt onto their used Mustangs, Camaros, and Firebirds to increase performance or fix them cheaply. Cragar wheels came about because the guy didn't like the look of stock Mustang hubcaps when the cars were new in 1965. I have seen very few luxury or full size cars with aftermarket stuff installed. The few I have seen were someone's bad idea of customizing that you would not need any originality guide to know to avoid.

As for seat covers, that aisle full of plaid bench seat covers was much more likely to end up on 1965 or 1955 Chevys with years of wear and tear, than a new 1975 Impala. And my local K Mart and auto parts stores still carry plenty of them. Except instead of plaid, they have flames, cartoon charaters, or skulls.

52 is not yet retirement age. People frequently start thinking about childhood or young adult memories when they are retiring. That is when my dad bought his first collector car, several years after he retired. Currently clubs and cruise nights I belong to and go to have mostly1960's cars. You don't see many prewar cars there anymore. The prewar trophy usually goes to the only one that shows up, or maybe from a selection of 2 or 3 cars. Our club has already been discussing what to do about it being unfair that a 1960's car has to have a flawless restoration or be immaculately original to win a trophy, while all you have to do is show up with something prewar to get one. As I have already stated, 1970's are now starting to surpass 1960's suicide door Lincolns in the Lincoln club. We are also seeing a lot more 1970's cars at our club and at cruise nights. I would say that in 10-15 years, the 1970's will have the highest amount of cars at these events.

If you think there are no aftermarket or reproduction parts for 1980's Camaros and Mustangs, you haven't looked very hard. I don't think there will be a huge demand for 1985 Celicas, but there still isn't for 1957 Packards either.

Barry Wolk · March 23, 2010

I love my 20,000 mile '77 Town Car. The only non-rubber parts replaced were the battery and water pump, and that appeared to be done under warranty.

I bought it 7 years ago for $7,000 with under 13,000 miles. I have it insured for $15,000 now and could probably get $12,000 for it. That's a slightly better return than normal portfolio return, but not a bad investment in a car that I've used and enjoyed.

So, I say buy it, maintain it, drive it and enjoy it. Nothing else matters.

poci1957 · March 23, 2010

As I have already stated, 1970's are now starting to surpass 1960's suicide door Lincolns in the Lincoln club. We are also seeing a lot more 1970's cars at our club and at cruise nights. I would say that in 10-15 years, the 1970's will have the highest amount of cars at these events./QUOTE]
Interesting observation, I should have seen that coming. That is the case here at my new downstate AACA chapter, we have a few active Lincoln people that are into 1970s Marks. I do not know the numbers, but I would guess LOTS more 1970s Marks and Town Cars were sold than suicide door models. Todd C

Dave@Moon · March 24, 2010

And really, you're going to tell me that a Triumph is more reliable than a 1970's Impala?

No. Just that unlike 1970s Impalas (and every other American car and most European cars), the TR6 didn't get worse as time went on. Until late 1970s labor problems ruined the company (largely with the TR7 model in the U.S.), the Triumph level of build quality and reliability stayed relatively stable. Albeit that the standards of Triumph reliability weren't the best to begin with, and far from the worst as well.

Other manufacturers actually improved in quality during the 1970s, while living up to exactly the same product standards as everyone else. We all know who they were.

It didn't have to be.

March 24, 2010

As I have already stated, 1970's are now starting to surpass 1960's suicide door Lincolns in the Lincoln club. We are also seeing a lot more 1970's cars at our club and at cruise nights. I would say that in 10-15 years, the 1970's will have the highest amount of cars at these events./QUOTE]
Interesting observation, I should have seen that coming. That is the case here at my new downstate AACA chapter, we have a few active Lincoln people that are into 1970s Marks. I do not know the numbers, but I would guess LOTS more 1970s Marks and Town Cars were sold than suicide door models. Todd C
Todd, here is one area where you and I do not agree and not because we don't think in the same way, but for myself when you observe cars that come to the weekly cruise in's or car shows in California very very few people collect cars newer than 1975. People here do not want to put up with cars they cannot modify and have to pass a emission test. The state made it very clear you can have your pre 76 cars, but anything after that the cars have to be stock and tested. The other consequence is not being able to find the emission control parts-especially twenty years from now on a car thats already thirty four years old now so they could pass. Do you think NAPA is going to be able to get you a ATC valve for your air cleaner or a TVS switch for your EGR or how about that vacuum advance diaphram that was only used for one year on your particular car.
This is what kills collecting post 1976 cars where I'm from. Typically these cars we are talking about are the ones that new people or young people would buy to get started in the hobby because the cars are affordable--until they emission test their vehicle. Even better, if their car become a gross polluter which is another horror story all in itself.
Don

LINC400 · March 24, 2010

No. Just that unlike 1970s Impalas (and every other American car and most European cars), the TR6 didn't get worse as time went on. Until late 1970s labor problems ruined the company (largely with the TR7 model in the U.S.), the Triumph level of build quality and reliability stayed relatively stable. Albeit that the standards of Triumph reliability weren't the best to begin with, and far from the worst as well.
Other manufacturers actually improved in quality during the 1970s, while living up to exactly the same product standards as everyone else. We all know who they were.
It didn't have to be.

I disagree with that. The fact that there are so many 1970's cars still around despite the prejudice against them shows that they were not poorly assembled, low quality vehicles ready for the junkyard. What lost customers for the Big 3 was the mid to late 1980's, not the 1970's.

My friends and neighbors mostly had full size and personal luxury American cars in the 1970's. They continued buying those types of cars until the mid '80's, when they were no longer available. I remember when the new full size GM's came out in 1985-6. No one liked them. They were too small, unattractive, and didn't look much different from a Chevy Celebrity whether you bought an Olds 88 or Fleetwood. Many refused to trade in their car for the new dinky boxes. The few that did buy them were not happy with them. That is when they switched to Japanese imports, when they were the same size as an Accord or Camry, priced the same, were poorly designed and assembled. The Town Car which was not well received with its 1980 downsize, suddenly experienced a surge in sales in the late 1980's. The Cadillac Brougham and Chevy Caprice, which were supposed to have been discontinued, annoyingly kept selling. The Pontiac Bonneville was even brought back as the Parisienne. The first half of the 1980's are now antiques. But I see very few 1980's cars at car shows and cruise nights. The few that are there are usually modified Mustangs, Camaros, or Firebirds.

LINC400 · March 24, 2010

Todd, here is one area where you and I do not agree and not because we don't think in the same way, but for myself when you observe cars that come to the weekly cruise in's or car shows in California very very few people collect cars newer than 1975. People here do not want to put up with cars they cannot modify and have to pass a emission test. The state made it very clear you can have your pre 76 cars, but anything after that the cars have to be stock and tested. The other consequence is not being able to find the emission control parts-especially twenty years from now on a car thats already thirty four years old now so they could pass. Do you think NAPA is going to be able to get you a ATC valve for your air cleaner or a TVS switch for your EGR or how about that vacuum advance diaphram that was only used for one year on your particular car.
This is what kills collecting post 1976 cars where I'm from. Typically these cars we are talking about are the ones that new people or young people would buy to get started in the hobby because the cars are affordable--until they emission test their vehicle. Even better, if their car become a gross polluter which is another horror story all in itself.
Don
California might be different. However, in Illinois all antique cars are exempt from emissions provided they have antique plates and are insured as an antique. I have no problems getting any mechanical parts for my car. The only difficulty getting parts is some interior trim pieces.
At the cruise nights here we see very few prewar cars, and even the number of 1950's cars is dwindling some. My guess is that the younger people showing up at these events have no personal connection to these cars, and do not collect them. Or maybe they can't afford them. The older people simply don't take their cars out anymore. We have several older members in our club that will attend events, and have several antique cars, yet I have never seen them because they never leave the garage or storage facility.

poci1957 · March 24, 2010

Todd, here is one area where you and I do not agree and not because we don't think in the same way, but for myself when you observe cars that come to the weekly cruise in's or car shows in California very very few people collect cars newer than 1975. People here do not want to put up with cars they cannot modify and have to pass a emission test. The state made it very clear you can have your pre 76 cars, but anything after that the cars have to be stock and tested. The other consequence is not being able to find the emission control parts-especially twenty years from now on a car thats already thirty four years old now so they could pass.Don
Hi Don, well, that is certainly a big issue in California (and other smog states and counties) and must indeed skew the numbers you see. I admit that the thought of inspections and emissions rarely comes on my radar in old car matters because here it is not an issue.
I guess Linc400 and myself are fortunate in that, but we are less fortunate in that his other comments about declining participation are all correct. Todd C

MarkV · March 25, 2010

1976 and up have to be smogged, I have never had a problem getting my MKV smogged or the caddy when I bought it, if the car has been maintained you should be fine, it will have all the smog equipment needed

MarkV · March 25, 2010

and an engine like a Ford 400 which was stock in the MKV has plenty of emission parts available because they were made for so many years

padgett · March 25, 2010

Times change. Maybe am an oddball but all of my cars are drivers and each has a garage door now so no shuffling is needed.

Couple of years ago sold a 66 Monza convertible for more than enough to buy the white '90 Reatta convertible and am much happier with better mpg, a/c, and a factory CD. Much better car all around (and now qualifies for collector insurance).

Must admit that there is one mid '70s luxury car I wouldn't mind and that is the 1976 Cadillac Seville with Bosch FI but offhand that is the only one I can think of.

Rawja · March 26, 2010

It's probably going to end up like every other era as far as collectability, a number of "star-standouts" and the generic "whatever" class.

Stand-outs off the top of my head (and forgive the obviousness of some):

Mustangs

Corvettes

Jaguars

Mercedes coupes and convertibles

Eldorados

Sevilles

Imperials

Lincoln Marks

Datsun/Nissan Z's

Supras

Rivieras

Regals

Fieros

Camaros

Firebirds

Thunderbirds

Cougars

"Whatevers"

Chevettes

Almost all the Chrysler 'K' cars.

Almost all the GM 'A' bodies.

Almost all the GM 'J' bodies.

Almost all the GM 'X' bodies.

Almost all Fords and Mercurys

In every era you have cars that capture people's imaginations then (or in retrospect) and then you have the rest, y'know the cars that were bought as "rational" purchases by people who don't care about cars. They're interesting in some respects, but people didn't get all foamy for them then, now or likely in the future.

As far as the notion of turing profits on old cars, I think it's wishful thinking/ spousal management technique to imagine making money on 'em. You're better off enjoying them for what they are (and aren't) without the monetary pipe-dreams, it's much less disappointing that way.

poci1957 · March 26, 2010

In every era you have cars that capture people's imaginations then (or in retrospect) and then you have the rest, y'know the cars that were bought as "rational" purchases by people who don't care about cars. They're interesting in some respects, but people didn't get all foamy for them then, now or likely in the future.
As far as the notion of turing profits on old cars, I think it's wishful thinking/ spousal management technique to imagine making money on 'em. You're better off enjoying them for what they are (and aren't) without the monetary pipe-dreams, it's much less disappointing that way.

You hit the nail on the head on both these comments! Todd

junkyardjeff · March 27, 2010

I would love to have another 72 Olds 92 2 door again as it was one of the best riding cars I ever owned,even with the 455 and gears designed for the mountains of Colorado it got 16 on the highway and got the same mileage as a 1/2 truck I owned at the same time with 100 less cubic inch motor. I was thinking on putting in some taller gears and probably got the mileage to 18 or more.

April 18, 2010

People keep their cars longer which has probably done as much to kill collectability of the last 25 years as much as iffy styling and performance. However there probably always been a market for truely unique and interesting vehicles and time will certainly tell.

One thing about 70s + cars is that even 30-40 years old they can still be driven relatively easily on the road without too much difficulty. Safety items has more or less become standardized by the early 70s so automatic transmission air conditioning disc brakes etc. allow for easy driving on any road at almost any speed.

As far as collectability is concerned I would probably agree that the vast majority of mid/low level cars from the era will probably never climb above 4 figures I dont see why unique and interesting vehicles preserved originals will not command some collector interest as time wears on. As generations shift and tastes and interests evolve the day will come when the cars from the 50s and 60s will be like the pre war cars now cost prohibitive for most people and taken out only for shows and special events and usually not driven on main roads.

I am only 32 and got my license in 1994. So most of the cars that I saw in high school were 80s and 90s models. I have an 1981 Chrysler Imperial FS (with EFI) which is a rare car indeed and I was only 3 when it was made. So time is relative. I have owned a couple of cars that were older than me (slightly) and hope to one day own one from the 60s. It is difficult for someone of my generation to relate to something prior to the 60s and we simply do not have connections to those eras. Even passed down stories from parents experiences go back to only 60s. Of course I appreciate cars from the earlier eras and it would be a gift from God to own a 32 Cadillac but for now I am content to enjoy what I know best.

MarkV · April 18, 2010

I was born in 1988, and look at my list of cars all except two are much older than me by a longshot, they were better built and last longer, the only one I have found which matches this criteria is the Lesabres

April 19, 2010

Old cars are the most subjective investment you can make because they are so personal. The bumper cars of the 70s are definitely going to be a good bet because they are so affordable now and they are becoming increasingly rare.

We did an interview last year with one of the proudest owners I've ever met-he won a 76 Merc 2 dr. ht. in a raffle and it was his dream car.This car is highway friendly and perfectly suited (from a safety perspective) to hauling

his family around to shows.

There is no downside to owning a 70s car because ten years from now they're going to be even more unique.

John_S_in_Penna · April 20, 2010

Someone commented in this thread that Lincoln Marks of the 1970's can command $20,000. Well, the sellers might command that much, but the buyers rarely agree with that! In my year-long search of Marks before buying a nice one in 2006, I found that asking prices and selling prices were FAR apart. Mark V's are great cars, with moderate demand and supply so large that you practically have your choice of colors.

My 1978 Lincoln Mark V, 460 engine, 11,000 miles and virtually new condition--bought from a knowledgeable long-time collector--was $5000. Look at selling prices on Ebay. I wouldn't have paid more than $7000 for it.

So enjoy those '70's cars while they are still available and cheap! Isn't it great that some aspects of the hobby are affordable?

LINC400 · April 20, 2010

Someone commented in this thread that Lincoln Marks of the 1970's can command $20,000. Well, the sellers might command that much, but the buyers rarely agree with that! In my year-long search of Marks before buying a nice one in 2006, I found that asking prices and selling prices were FAR apart. Mark V's are great cars, with moderate demand and supply so large that you practically have your choice of colors.
My 1978 Lincoln Mark V, 460 engine, 11,000 miles and virtually new condition--bought from a knowledgeable long-time collector--was $5000. Look at selling prices on Ebay. I wouldn't have paid more than $7000 for it.
So enjoy those '70's cars while they are still available and cheap! Isn't it great that some aspects of the hobby are affordable?

They only command $20,000 or anything remotely near that if they are a special edition with very low miles. In other words, a less than 20,000 mile Collectors Series, Diamond Jubilee, or to a lesser degree, some of the designer editions. These would be fully loaded, flawless cars. Fully loaded does not mean power windows, locks, and a/c. Those are standard. Fully loaded means it includes things like moonroof, digital radio with CB, and built in garage door opener along with about 35 other optional items ,plus all of the accessories that came with the special editions such as tool kits, umbrellas, special hood ornaments, and leather bound owners manuals.

Regular low mileage Mark V's in good shape, but with no special features can be bought much cheaper in a variety of colors and trim levels. These are the cars you see on Ebay all the time. For example a yellow one with no moonroof, base interior, and average options isn't going to stir up much interest regardless of low miles. A Collectors Series in immaculate condition with all of its special accessories special ordered in silver or diamond blue with proof that it came that way, is another story.

Edited April 20, 2010 by LINC400 (see edit history)

padgett · April 20, 2010

First cars are new. Then they aren't. Then they are old. "Old" generally lasts from age 5 to 25 unless there is a dislocation. Next certain ones become "interesting". Following that & around age thutty the ones that were "interesting" become "collectable" and others that are left become "interesting".

Have seen this happen for cars of the 40's, 50's, 60's, and now 70's with 80's on the edge.

Paid $1500 for a four year old Jag XK-150S because I could not afford an "E", A grand for a 63 Fuelie Coupe in 1970, $500 for a 67 Cad Eldo in 1974. '70 Judge was worth $600 in '86. Suspect each might be worth a bit more now but they weren't at the time.

My interests move on but have always been attracted to "orphans". One interesting point is that what often makes a car valuable today is the same thing that made them unsellable at the time (like the 69 Z-28 languishing on a dealer lot in 1970 because it was not available with a/c (in south Florida).

Bought a 4spd GS with a/c and power everthing instead. Never had a car before or since I could shift as fast. Won autocrosses (which says something about my interests).

OK so want a formula for future collectability ? Any car will be after 50 years.

Want something a little closer ?

a) top of the line

low production

c) out of character

d) poor sales when new

e) ahead of its time

Not perfect, by this criteria a 1974 Cosworth Vega or 1985 BMW 524TD would fit (and may in the future). Just observations of a c/o.

Dave@Moon · April 20, 2010

I strongly disagree with Padgett on this. As I stated in an earlier post:

I don't know about "truth". I doubt it exists any more. But yours is the consensus opinion among both hobbyists and the general public.
I would add that "cumbersome" relates to many things beyond size. A Pinto or Gremlin is "cumbersome" in it's handling as much as any LeSabre or Town & Country. Styling as well in that era is best described as cumbersome. The chief exception being sports cars from that era. RX-7s, 944s, 924s, 240/260/280 Zs, Corvettes, etc. transcend the problems of the 1970s & 1980s.
And it is those sports cars that alone are following the value curves typical of the Mustangs/Bel Airs/Avantis of our past. You can find originality guides for all of the cars I just mentioned. There were several originality guides published for 1965-1975 Mustangs/Camaros/Barracudas/etc. before many of them were 10 years old. (Mustang Does It was published in 1978 as an originality guide for models through 1973, for example.) Good luck trying to find a guide for LTD IIs or Sunbirds!
The Falcon Club of America was founded in 1979, but there still is no Ford Fairmont Club (which should have been founded almost 20 years ago (in 1992) if interest in essentially the same type car was similar).
At this point (35 years after production for some of these cars) if no one's interested enough in them to produce literature and material or start marque-specific clubs for the hobbyist, it's likely never going to happen.
So therefore I foresee the collectibility of cars beyond 1976 to be far more selective than it has been in the recent past. Miatas are already very collectible. Ford Escort EXPs...., not so much.

You cannot use past patterns in value and interest to predict future values and interest in cars. They just weren't the same things after 1976. Society viewed them differently, they were much longer lived, and they no longer represented the same things in life to people.

The typical 1968 Camaro buyer only had that car, and it was their identity in many ways. The typical 2009 Camaro buyer (same car, same image, same purpose and function) was probably buying his or her 2nd or 3rd or even 4th vehicle. Which of those is their identity? And if all are a part of their identity, how could a partial identity bring about the same feelings in people years later that a complete identity (like the 1968 Camaro) would?

And who would ever find identity in a 1983 Cavalier to compare with a 1964 Chevelle or 1936 Ford?

Anything, when it gets old enough, has value. The sponges nailed to sticks used as toilet paper in Roman bathhouses, if you can find an authentic one today, would be quite valuable. By those standards we've barely begun the interim phase for any car. However the interim year's values do have meaning.

I'll bet that Roman coins are a lot more common than those sponges today.

==================

BTW, How much of that $600 Judge was left in 1986, or did you mean 1976? Muscle cars were pretty worthless in the mid-70s but by 1986 Judges, even as parts cars, were worth much more than that.

Mid 70s to early 80s Collectible Ever?

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