How Can The BCA Survive?

[Mark Shaw]

Derek has the right idea passing out applications... However, it would be much more effective if the applications were wrapped with a Bugle magazine. When potential members see it, I am sure they would be impressed...

My 2 cents...

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Great idea, Mark. Are extra copies available and at what cost?

Ben

[BUICK RACER]

Great idea, Mark. Are extra copies available and at what cost?

Ben

Maybe the Buick Club office could contact the Pittsburg Portholes that sell the leftover Bugles and see what inventory they have, numbers wise, then look at the articles pertaining to years as Pete has done a wonderful job, documenting, and Chapters, and indiviuals could request certain copies that they think their friends and car show folks would be interested in to pass out, and then the Buick Club BOD, could approve postage to send those out, just a thought.

I have a half a box full of the March 1993 Bugle by the previous editor on Buick's Performance Year's, I have handed out many, still have more, not sure we gained any membership from that, or not.

You all might look at our new BCA Vice President's post on the Opinions on the Buick Club of America - Buick Performance Group Forum

For thoughts from outside the BCA world, for other ideas.

[buick5563]

When I sold my Wildcat, I paid for a one year membership to the BCA for the new owner. I also gave him this website info and a bunch of parts catalogs. It cost me next to nothing, and I hope he will ante up when the time comes. Sometimes it takes more than a little shove.

[NTX5467]

Thanks for the link, Roberta! Interesting comments from BPG members, which I've seen and heard similar from our local Mopar enthusiasts about the club I'm in and of others I know of.

Several years ago, our race group extended a "Howdy, come to our monthly meeting. We like ALL Mopars" to the local Shelby Dodge Auto Club chapter. Initially, they were skeptical that our "Mopar" interest was universal. It seems that THEIR orientation was that our group was "A bunch of old men driving around in old rear wheel drive cars . . .", despite the fact that our group is (something like) an 8-time winner of the Muscle Car Club Challenge race series in the DFW area.

When I was an officer, pre-2001, I tried to make sure we struck a good balance between "show" and "race", as we had enough members to participate in BOTH types of events . . . and win awards. Some prospective members wanted to call us "A bunch of old folks that sits around at cruise nights", to which I'd counter that we also had racers out eating up the competition at local drag strips each weekend, too. In other words, my "our groups embraces BOTH orientations" to let them know that we had something they would like to be a part of, whether it was race or show.

So, it seems the "show" and "race" factions are lining up again such that they seem to NOT understand that it takes similar expertises to do well in both areas. One of our members has several award-winning concours restored Mopar muscle cars. After he showed each one at Mopar Nats and other local shows, the first year they were done, then he took them to the muscle car shoot-out races. As Roberta probably knows, he wins his class regularly--or at least did, if he's still racing, in a concours restored Plymouth MaxWedge that is "show" and "go". "Similar expertises", but in different areas.

Personally, I can (and have) learned more from being involved in OEM-correct restorations which were "as produced" rather than "over-restored to please some show judges" than I have in watching drag races. One of the expertises in drag racing is chassis set-up and starting line technique, plus engine tuning. Another expertise is CORRECT engine-building, which can be just as much of an art in itself as doing a correct restoration--whether a race or higher performance engine or a completely "as-produced-spec" engine for a restoration project.

Locally, we have our North Texas Chapter of the BCA and there is also a chapter of what used to be the GSCA. I'm not sure of their current affiliation, if any. What started out as a GS club has evolved into a "Turbo Buick Club". Over the years, we've had some cross-over members, but they usually gravitate back to the GS club over the years. Their "glory" is in chrome, tire smoke, and gasoline whereas very few of our BCA chapter members are really that interesting in drag racing OR have cars that would do well in such an environment.

Several years ago, one of our chapter members looked far and wide for a GN. He finally found one that was "unmolested" and bought it. He brought it to one of our meetings where some of the GS club members were also present. When he drove in, they descended upon this "new car". Seeing it was totally bone stock, they immediately started telling him what HE should do to make it run better. He thanked them for their comments but such modifications were not what he wanted the car for. Even back then, finding a GN that had "normal" use in its history was a task!

With the history of both the BCA and the BPG, it is obvious that their priorities are in different places, which is totally understandable, all things considered. I highly suspect that, considering the many restoration parts which the BPG has been involved in getting done over the past 5 years or so (which help the restoration, weekend cruise, and racing communities!), there are probably some cross-over areas where BOTH groups of Buick enthusiasts have a lot more common ground than they might ever suspect.

In what seems to be the current business model of many businesses, each section of the business entity is so focused on their OWN part of things that they seldom seem to look at how what they do can affect the total entity. Such "high focus" might have been termed "with blinders on" in prior times. Historically, the BCA has been highly focused on "OEM, End of the Assembly Line correct" vehicles. Modifications were not allowed--period. Newer Buicks were not allowed in the 400 Point judged show--period. Even the current "Driver's Class" has many OEM-based regulations, such that if too many modifications were made to "a driver", then it would need to be in the Modified Division's section of the National Meet!

With respect to national-level event scheduling, we had a similar situation with the Texas Mopar clubs, of where there were five at the time. Each club staked out their own month for their annual show event. Sometimes, they were held at a drag strip, others were at other locations. Key thing -- it did NOT take a drag race venue to make for a fun show event. It was seeing the cars, looking at various things others had done to their stock or modified or race cars, and talking to the other enthusiasts at the event that made it worth while. It took a few years for us to get the scheduling firmed-up, but we did and then we ALSO strongly advocated that we all support each others' shows, too, when we could.

I saw one comment in the BPG forum which implied the BCA scheduled their national meet "on top of" that year's BPG big event . . . as if it was done deliberately to keep the two clubs from "mixing". I highly doubt there was any such intent on the part of the BCA operatives, knowing that such BCA National Meets are scheduled far in advance, just as the BPG events probably tend to be, but the BPG poster's comments gave me the impression that they perceived the BCA didn't "want to play" by that act.

I also know that events which are held at drag strips have very inflexible time slots they can deal with . . . in between sanctioned local, regional, and possibly national drag race series events. Once you get one staked out, you're pretty much locked into that date slot unless one of the larger drag race bodies changes a date for one of their races. On the BCA side of things, there is much more flexibility, but when such dates are contracted, there usually is little consideration other than what dates they can get locked in and where the event activities will be. Flexible, but within local considerations and "conventions" of when the BCA National Meets can be and please the most possible potential attendees, time-wise.

By observation, FEW of the BCA National Meet locations have a full 1/4 mile drag strip in reaonable driving distance from the meet. It might be fun to go see the drag races, but the tightness of how the other events at the BCA National Meets usually tend to be, if you go to the races, you'll probably miss some other interesting things to do or tours to take or people to see. In Columbus, it was not that bad of a drive to National Trails or such a bad drive to IRP at Brownsburg from Indy, or to Milan from Flint.

I might have a different orientation, but to me, these show events are more about learning from what others have done and accomplished with their vehicles. When I did have a car to show, it was not so much as "Look what I've done" as adding something to the show, itself. Personally, I like a more "stock" appearance, but I am also NOT opposed to some modifications if they are well-done--even "incognito" unless you know what you're looking at.

Similarly, it seems the BPG's "high focus" in on drag racing events. Some of this might be attributed to a "younger crowd", but that "age factor" is not always the case. In EITHER group, there has to be a credible mentor/knowledge base for newer members to draw upon.

It might take a few years for the BCA and BPG to become more cooperative on national events and such, but I believe it could be a good thing for both groups as EACH can expand their horizons, in many respects. Working together and being friends usually results in a mutually beneficial situation.

Regards,

NTX5467

[Brad Conley]

Just to make everything clear, Mike Book called me (I am the office manager for the BPG) earlier in the year and asked when our event was to be held in 2010. I gave him the dates and told him that we really could not move our date around much as National Trail Raceway was booked for all other weekends around our date. He said he would let folks know of our plans and I am sure he did.

Someone in the BCA obviously didn't care.

I am NOT blaming Mike and Nancy that the events next year fall on the same date, but it sure would have been nice for the two events to not be on the same weekend. Hopefully this can be rectified in future years. Mike and Nancy are about the best people in the world and, in fact, they were the ones to get me to join the BCA back in 1980. I am in no way accusing them of anything wrong.

[Guest BJM]

I just talked to two Iowa owners of Skylark GS's one from Fort Dodge, the other another local town. Now, the owner of the 72 Stage 1 said he was a long time member of the BPG (GS Club? same thing?) and was excited to hear of the BCA National coming to Ames. I estimate his age at 62-65ish.

Now this news of coinciding national meets.

[Brad Conley]

I just talked to two Iowa owners of Skylark GS's one from Fort Dodge, the other another local town. Now, the owner of the 72 Stage 1 said he was a long time member of the BPG (GS Club? same thing?) and was excited to hear of the BCA National coming to Ames. I estimate his age at 62-65ish.

Now this news of coinciding national meets.

Probably was Gary Foster, the Ft Dodge guy. Super nice guy that built the engines for my two GSX's and also did a motor swap on my 1985 GMC 1 ton tilt-rollback (now 455 Stage 1 powered )

The Buick Performance Group is not the same as the GS Club of America. The BPG is a 501c3 corporation and sponsors a national meet once per year in the Columbus area. The GSCA is owned by Richard Lassiter from Valdosta, GA and they have a national meet each year in Bowling Green, KY.

[RICK YOUNG]

I was at 2 shows this weekend and as BJM stated Buicks accounted for about 3% of registrations. But none were more enthusiastic as our Buick folks. Hopefully got 5 new members by just asking and giving them the Buick Club web address.

To our friends in the Buick Performance Group, there was absolutely no intent on crashing show dates. When faced with having No National in 2010 Bill Stoneberg and I took it on.

We worked with the Ames Visitors Bureau to get the best deal. The other alternative was Nashville which would have been to close for comfort for the BPG event.

You guys are welcome here anytime.

Remember, THE MEMBERSHIP DRIVE, WE HAVE 200 EARS OF SWEETCORN FROZEN AND MOUTHWATERING IOWA PORK LOINS READY FOR THE CLUB WHO GAINS THE MOST NEW MEMBERS. The Carolinas would be sweet or maybe Florida???????????

R Y

[gbsean]

let me introduce myself...My Name is Sean Ryder I am the current Buick Performance Group Chairman. Brian and I have been exchanging e-mails and private messages about how we can make make both the BCA and the BPG grow and florsih... A BUICK is a BUICK no matter what year it was made. Both groups have stigmas about what is acceptable to show up at an event...the BCA with pre war cars...the BPG with performance cars....but to be honest....I like all of them...and so do most of the BPG membership...even if it is a JAG with a Buick Motor and drivetrain....its heart is a Buick....The reason I responded to Brains post on the BPG board is I as well as others want all Buick to attend our Event...and we would reciprocate by attending your Events...BUT some of our members want racing...which the BCA does not provide....at this time my 87 GN looks like cr@p...but it runs and I love it,,and it runs 11's...the BPG hosted a GSX Reunion this year that had 93 GSX's attend...the most the world had ever seen in one place at one time...we had over 20 that showed up at the meet and greet...that Drove their cars on the street...$100K cars...I am up for any and all suggestions to help both clubs survive...sorry for the long post...if any one wishes contact me send e-mail to gbsean@optonline.com We can help each other

[Guest 455stage1]

I am not a BCA member because my main interest is the Buick 'muscle car era'. I feel the BCA's main interest is showing pre-1960s Buicks. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, it is just not for me. I have seen the Bugle publication before and have met several BCA members over the years, and my idea of what the BCA is and what it represents has not changed.

I would guess a number of my peers would feel the same way. Something within the BCA would need to change this perception.

I was a member of the Buick Gran Sport Club of America (GSCA) from 1992 - 2007 and have been a Buick Performance Group (BPG) member since inception (2002). When I first got into this hobby, all my friends would meet at this-or-that racetrack. Twenty years later, nothing has changed - we're still meeting at racetracks. I'm not a 'show person' or a 'race person' - I'm a 'people person' (so I've been told ). I go to events to laugh with friends from all over. Racing at a national event was previously discussed here, and I also feel it would be a step in the right direction. I also like the idea of a 'roaming' event venue, even though I would unfortunately only be able to attend 'local' events. A roaming event does gets more people involved.

The BCA needs to find a way to make most 'Buick' people happy. Besides the Buick Performance Group (BPG), Riviera Owners Association (ROA), and Buick Gran Sport Club of America (GSCA), what other 'Buick exclusive' clubs exist? It was stated earlier that these groups fill a void in the BCA. I agree. The BCA needs to fill the void to attract these members.

Also, to attract members, you have to give people a benefit. What are the benefits of BCA membership? Here are the current BPG member benefits -

BPG member benefits

Hopefully some of these ideas can help all of 'us' Buick people.

I always have stated - "The cars bring us together, the people keep us together" :cool:

[Thriller]

Some interesting stuff. It seems to me from some of the comments is that, like Buick itself, perception is much of the problem. We have Brian with pre-war cars reaching out to other groups interested primarily in performance (I never saw mention of a '36 Century though). We have Roberta with a race car and a '56 Special in the wings. We have folks like me who have collections that span the decades (while I don't have what would be considered performance cars, a couple of them weren't slouches in their day and one has seen some significant modifications...not to mention that I want to round out the collection with a turbo car from the 80s). We have the chairman of the BPG speaking more eloquently about loving all Buicks than some BCA members. We have folks that belong to some or all of the aforementioned groups.

We have performance-minded Buick enthusiasts who don't know all the BCA can offer.

We have BCA members who don't know what some of the other Buick clubs offer.

We also have individuals who have expressed a preference for one type of event over another.

The primary BCA membership benefit is an excellent monthly magazine. The Bugle is not only high quality, but there are a number of classified ads for cars and parts that you may very well not see anywhere else. The BPG membership benefits have been listed, but many of them don't apply if you don't get to the event.

As for what is in the Bugle, Pete has some influence, but if, say, numerous requests were made and articles submitted on say, the history of the GS, Stage engines, turbo cars, etc., then they would wind up in the Bugle. To a degree, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

The reality is that no club is going to be all things to everyone. Hopefully though we can all remain civil and continue to talk to each other, hopefully keeping the peace and even getting closer.

Personally, while I'm no racer, I would like to have the opportunity to run a 1/4 mile with my Buick friends...regardless of which Buick I bring - the dual carb '41, the '54 Estate Wagon, the '66 Wildcat, or the '76 Indy pace car. That would certainly add an element to the event. Of course, I would be concerned a bit about breaking my cars though too, since I'm not a racer.

Mark - I'd love to hand out Bugles with application forms, but I'm unwilling to give away all my old Bugles and, if we all get on the bandwagon, there aren't enough old Bugles to go around.

[The Old Guy]

I have been a member of the BCA since 1969 (BCA 1308) and was a member of the GSCA from 1990 to 2002. I still go to the Michigan -Ohio race at Norwalk that is run by Roberta and Bill, and although I stopped racing a couple of years ago, ,I still go to see the people.

I agree that there are people on both sides of the fence that can't seem to see what the other person sees in the different Buicks. I still catch some flack from BCA members because my 72 GS has headers and flowmasters and my 37 coupe has a 455.

The muscle car group is much more acceptable of my 40 convert and my 69 Sport Wagon than the BCA people.are of mt muscle cars.

I believe the BCA has lost its way and needs to go back to their original premise. Since the 400 point judging system has come into play, the BCA has gone from a group that enjoys old cars ,to a bunch of trophy hunters. The BDE was formed for that reason , and although the BCA is losing members and has financial problems, the BDE is growing and is financially well off. This should tell you something.

Edited September 10, 2009 by The Old Guy (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

The Old Guy is my personal barometer of the health of the BCA. Sage advice for sure.

On the surface, I want the 400 point judging for 2 reasons. Stewardship and integrity are important to me so having BCA seniors keeps that bar high. On the other hand, sometimes these cars drop out of sight. So it becomes more of a personal achievement thing or a pedigree for resale at a high dollar auction.

So I'm with Old Guy on this one. How much hand wringing goes on at a BCA National to pull off the 400 point judging? Coordination, accuracy, getting judges, upsetting some people over scoring.

I keep thinking, "by gawd, I'm going to restore my next Buick to win a BCA senior gold." Jeez I'll probably never get a car that nice but i still want to bring what I have to a national meet.

[Mark Shaw]

What a great thread this has been!

I too agree with The Old Guy as I am into touring with my ORIGINAL prewar Buicks. However, I do not condem those who upgrade or hot rod their cars to enjoy their particular version of the hobby. After all, I often get replacement parts for my cars from those who modify theirs. If it were not for these parts, many original cars would not be original. There is room for everyone in this hobby and we all need to recognize and respect this fact.

I will be taking my 24 Buick (Cut Down) Truck to a big "End of the World" cruise-in this weekend. It is mostly for hot rods, but this thread has inspired me to take over a dozen old bugles with my BCA number filled-in on the sponsor line of the BCA application form. Who knows how many in the crowd might also be interested in my version of a modified Buick.

[gbsean]

See those are the cars I want to see.....that looks sweet....

[RICK YOUNG]

Sean and All,

There's one thing for for sure we've got more passion about our Buicks than any other car people I see at shows ( well maybe the Studebaker folks are close) But no nicer people anywhere.

RY

[Guest ewing]

this is an age old topic, held by many a club, be it auto related, work related technical societies, you name it.

Here's my experience and observations;

I have joined BCA over the years, 3 times ( at least). I joined each time for different reasons. [ and just as true , I let my membership lapse for different reasons].

I joined when I got my first car a 1938 Buick. Local guy club members told me I should join BCA as a source of information and parts, to keep my car running. And so I did, and that was a long time ago; check my member #.

I can't remember how long I stayed a paid up member, but money was hard to ration out as a teenager, and I let my membership lapse,... at the time I had acquired all the info I needed.

I then got very busy making a career and cars took the back seat along with club memberships.

I rejoined about 20 years ago when I had more time for car hobby stuff, because I remember the good info and friends made thru the club...but again let my membership lapse, as there was little to hold my interest being so far away from others in the club.

I have again rejoined BCA this year at the urging of Thriller and others locally.

The reason I joined was to be part of a 'fraternity' of Buick crazies, both locally and south of the border ( yes, that's you guys in the northern states). I expect to remain a member for the forseeable future, but who knows...

So a club of this type will appeal to different people based on what they want from a club.

Members will come and go, and if the natural order of things is a slow reduction in total members as we compete with other clubs, we need to make the necessary adjustments. That doesn't mean to say we become spectators in this. We need to remind ourselves of the changing reasons why we are members, and how these things will appeal to different people.

Enjoy the club, enjoy the events, travel to events put on by others, talk about the friendships, talk to new members to let them know they are welcome,( new member retention is likely just as big an issue), and be ready to help a fellow Buick lover of all years and models and by all means make joining easy ( ...hand them a membership application or help them apply, and mayube consider a student membership status for the young guys). I know, I have heard it too, hey if he can afford the car, he can afford the membership dues... well I can tell you from experience that if given a choice, as a perpetually broke teenager, I'd gas up the car and go out for a drive, over paying up next years dues, if it came down to it.

The rest will take care of itself.

[NTX5467]

I was pondering the possible dynamics of a joint BCA/BPG event in Columbus, OH, for example. Then something became very clear . . . some cultural changes will probably need to evolve first.

It seems that the BPG members are more interested in racing, hence the perceived desire of them to have their events at "race tracks". Similarly, the BCA members generally have issues if their show field/swap meet/indoor swap meet is NOT at the host hotel, or nearby. I suspect that unless a joint event was held at a NASCAR track, the proximity to the host hotel of the events would not be really possible. Except that NASCAR tracks generally don't have a 1/4 mile drag strip next door. So much for that idea!

When our North Texas Chapter was formulating the bid for the 1994 BCA National Meet, our lead person was Pete Phillips. When the contract was signed with the host hotel, there was sufficient open space beside it to have the show field and outdoor swap meet there. A year later, it was covered with concrete and buildings. When Pete saw that, he freaked. Although he was told the hotel owned it, the hotel's manager didn't "control" it.

We already had the Plano Centre contracted for the awards banquet, so I suggested he talk to them about moving the entire event up there. I heard dialogue about it would not be accepted by the members who HAD to have everything at one physical location. I asked "What other options do we have, at this time?" By that time, I'd been to Mopar Nats several times and also a Super Chevy Sunday or two--both events held at race tracks but with no groupings of hotels nearby, requiring "drives' to get to. It didn't seem to affect those enthusiasts, but it was Pete's observation that BCA members would not like it. At that time, I'd never heard of the necessity of an indoor swap meet, but the concept has some merit. End result, we moved everything to the Plano Centre and all worked out well.

It would seem that with the, generally, LOTS of meetings and such which go on at the BCA National Meets, one has to pick and choose and prioritize what is participated in or attended. In some respects, it seems like we're trying to condense 5 days worth of stuff into 3 days, and then have Sunday as the "leave for home" day. Scheduling of the event, itself, can be tricky due to school schedules not being really standardized throughout North America and Canada. Too early in the spring/summer, complaints of "Too early, the kids aren't out of school yet!", too late, "The kids start school next week!" (or similar).

As for location, everybody seems to want to go to "a destination city" rather than otherwise. There have been exceptions, though, which have worked reasonably well.

With the expanding number of vehicles eligible for 400 point judging, driver's class, modified class, and such which we now have at the BCA National Meets, having the event at a race track makes more sense, to me, than trying to find a hotel cluster which enough room to do all of that and have the swap meet, just as using a convention center makes sense for the same reason . . . available space. It's much easier to find hotels with meeting rooms than outside parking!

Using a race track for the event venue also means more space for vendors active in the hobby, plus "main players" to attend and set up shop and show their products for all to see. Parts, publications, restoration companies, restoration shops, etc., just like at one of the other larger specific-interest vehicle clubs have on their "manufacturer's midway". LOTS of possiblities!

With the daytime focus at "the track" for searching for parts and such, or watching the racing action, that would leave the evening hours for the meetings (rather than have them happen during the day, as they presently do). So, everybody heads for the hotel about 5pm for a 6pm meal and 7:30pm meeting, an 8:30pm meeting, and 9:30pm meeting--each evening.

Now, one thing I've noticed about the Mopar Nats event is how multi-generational that event is! One year, I saw a grandmother holding her grandchild (under the Viper tent) as the parents were, obviously, out looking at cars and such. Fathers, sons,daughters, and wives attend too. One year, I watched a father watch his son put drag slicks on the front of his Dodge K-car (which also had some hot rod stuff under the hood), as the mother and younger sister watched. Easily, I could imagine the grandfather smiling as he also watched, if he'd been there. The cars in the "Young Guns" section of the car show were interesting, too, including a Plymouth Acclaim which had been modified with suicide doors and enough custom stuff to make a show car enthusiast drool--all done in a high school auto shop class by a group of students. Of course, they spent about 5+ times what they probably paid for the vehicle, but it was one heck of a learning experience they'll never forget.Key thing is that all generations were involved, either as spectators or participants! Of course, the "car show" in the parking lot always reveals some interesting cars.

I can't help but suspect that many BCA members might be totally surprised at the enthusiasm for Buicks outside of the BCA group, if they might attend a Buick event similar in format to the Mopar Nats . . . I'll admit, I'm not sure just how close the BPG event might come to this--or if it might exceed what I've seen happen at the Mopar Nats events over the years.

One thing which might be emulated is the "biggest and best" show event for Buicks, which can help the Buick side of the hobby greatly. Let the BCA run the car show and judging events, let the BPG handle the "performance oriented" activities. Perhaps BDE or other BCA Divisions might want to help too? Then, in the evenings, everybody sits around the host hotel restaurant and swaps "information" with old and new friends. There could be some seminars held at the track with the main "heavy duty" meetings held at the hotels after dinner. When the BCA Awards Banquet would be held might be something to consider, or if its format might be modified somewhat.

It's obvious that any of the car groups which have their annual main events at a drag strip (as National Trails near Columbus, OH or Indianapolis Raceway Park at Brownsburg, IN) do not really mind driving to the event from where their lodging might be. Most who have show-quality cars do trailer them to the race tracks, then put them back "in the box" at the end of the day--especially if they come from across the nation. Or unload them at the hotel and drive them to the track. Of course, dedicated race cars aren't street legal, so they are trailered anyway. Contrast this with the observed "one stop, one location" orientation of BCA operatives--at least from what I've seen.

Also, it's been observed that some car event promoters/owners have no problem with having their events at the same location for 5 years at a time. By the same token, moving the shows around each year, as the BCA and others do, also makes sense and exposes more of the country to Buicks and their owners. BOTH have their own compelling discussions of viability.

I suspect that a joint BCA/BPG event could be good for both groups, but I also suspect that each will lose some participation on either side of the "show/race" fence as a result. Finding a way for EACH group to not lose it's individuality in the process might be a task, too! But that's not a reason to not try and make it happen! I also suspect that for insurance purposes, EACH group would need to have highly-defined sections of the race track property they would be responsible for, per each group's existing insurance policy specifications.

A Brice Road full of Buicks might be an interesting sight!

Regards,

NTX5467

Edited September 12, 2009 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Interesting thoughts there NTX.

I, for one, would prefer BCA meets NOT be in "destination cities". Since I generally try to be one of those two generation families at the event, frankly, destination locations drive up the cost. I'm not suggesting events be held in the middle of nowhere, but I suspect that Rochester was less expensive than the Twin Cities, for example (although I may be wrong). There are still interesting things to see and do.

I guess in thinking about the National meet, people are there for different reasons. Some show up for Saturday judging and unload the car for as little time as possible. Some are there to take in the tours in a location they may never have visited before. Some are there to spend time on the show field with the Buicks. Some are there for the people - friends old and new. Others may be other things I haven't thought of or a combination of things.

Personally, I'd like to see some racing as well. I'm not sure whether or not I'd like to see how my slow Buicks would do. I'm sure my boys would definitely enjoy some 1/4 mile action.

At any rate, some folks need to either drop their prejudices towards owners of Buicks they don't think belong, or at minimum shut their mouths and not be openly hostile.

[RICK YOUNG]

Thriller,

Well Iowa 2010 is as close to "the middle of nowhere as you can get". Just kidding. I too, am not crazy about destination cities. Taking my 63 thru 6 lane traffic is not my idea of Fun.

[Bill Stoneberg]

While looking at Ames, I looked at various options in Nashville. It would have been more expensive for the most part and almost 3 times as expensive at Opryland.

Can anyone from prior years tell me why we cant have drag racing at the Nationals anymore ? I know the BOD decided that a while ago but I wasn't on the BOD then.

[NTX5467]

Possibly due to items NOT in the BCA's insurance policy? But, considering that whenever you sign up to race at a drag strip or road course, you sign a waiver which releases everybody from any responsibility from accidents, deaths, or other losses--last time I was at one. Seems like that waiver would also release your personal auto insurance company from any liabilities, too? I know the fine print of car rental agreements typically forbid their vehicles being used for such purposes, too. End result, when you set a tire on the strip, might plan to at the event, or just enter the pits you sign the waiver saying "You're on your own--at your own peril".

OR might it be that although the BCA activities would be earlier in the day, prior to the strip's Main Event that afternoon and evening, the BCA didn't desire to pay the track's rent for that time frame as it was not a profitable thing for them to do? Cost prohibitiveness? Not enough participation, which might not be the case in a joint BCA/BPG event?

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Guest sintid58]

They did have racing at the 2003 National but it was off site. If I remember right they had to quit racing because of insurance issues. Even with the waivers there is always a possibility someone will try to sue. There must be someway to have racing involved with national car clubs, the GSCA and Mopar nationals do it all the time.

[38Buick 80C]

By the way there are several NASCAR tracks with Drag racing venues next door in Bristol, TN, Rockingham , NC, Las Vegas, NV and Charlotte, NC... maybe more. All are pretty far a way from any major hotel grouping with the exception of Charlotte with about 11 hotels within a 1/4 mile (no pun intended) of Zmax Dragway as well as a major mall and numerous restaurants within a mile. One of the hotels has been the host hotel for several AACA Nationals and will be for a 2010 Early Ford National and a few other clubs. Maybe it'll be a host hotel for a BCA National sooner or later!

[dkbuick75]

Chicagoland Speedway in Joliet, IL -- SW of Chicago also has Route 66 Raceway (drags) within the same convines of the Speedway grounds. I also believe that the city of Joliet is restoring and planning to start tours of the "Old Joliet Correctional Facility" (ie; Old Joliet prison). How cool would that be!!!!????

[BUICK RACER]

They did have racing at the 2003 National but it was off site. If I remember right they had to quit racing because of insurance issues. Even with the waivers there is always a possibility someone will try to sue. There must be someway to have racing involved with national car clubs, the GSCA and Mopar nationals do it all the time.

In 1999 at the BCA Columbus National Meet, we had time trials at National Trails, it was not part of the BCA National, but a off shoot of it, we had 10 or 12 cars participate, and was basically free, due to a long time relationship with a BCA member at the time, we got rain out. In 2000 we went the regular test and tune at Richmond Speedway in Richmond, VA, where the Blackhawk was first shown and run on the dragway.

In 2001 we did not do any racing, but in 2002, the Kokomo Meet we raced at at Bunker Hill, IN 1/8 mile track, the sponsoring chapter took the money as part of registration and turn it over to us to pay the track, and we had a few extra bucks to pay out some money for races we were able to work out a payout.

In 2003 we were able to do the same thing at Milan. In 2004, at Plano, TX, nothing was planned to race, and in 2005 we were able to time trial at Lancaster, NY speedway, and pay at the gate, no races were held.

If you go to the BOD minutes at New Page 1 July 2005 you will find the comments of the BOD on drag racing at the BCA Nationals, there was no follow up message in the Bugle to explain their concerns, as Willis has already stated, and is the rule of the tracks, you sign a waiver saying you relieve the promoter and the track of any wrongdoings by you or your pit crew or car, so therefore there are no legal actions against the promoter, so there is absolutey no reason to not have a drag race at a BCA National, so lets plan on doing it at the next National event with a nearby track, you know we have several members that have Bonneville Salt Flats type Buicks that will be showing off, yet this year, as well as others at Maxton, NC, and every year we have at least 6 or 8 Buick Drag Racing events, where some of the fastest cars in the country are Buicks, it is not necessay to belong to a club to attend as they welcome all Buicks, it's time for all of us Buick lovers to try to attend as many Buick events as we can, we have to engage each and every Buick person we can, so even if you aren't a member of the sponsoring club you can attend their event.

Midwest Buick Challenge, Osceola Dragway - Osceola, IN

Septemer 26-27, 2009

May 11-15, 2010, the 30th Anniversary of the GS Nationals in Bowling Green, KY at Beechbend Raceway Park.

May 21-23, 2010, the 20th Annual Buick Race Day at Summit Raceway Park, Norwalk, OH.

AND

2010 Buick Performance Group Nationals to be held on July 30 through August 1 at National Trail Raceway in Hebron OH (near Columbus). Let's gather together the largest number of 1969 - 1974 factory stage1 cars anyone has ever seen since the Buick muscle car days of Flint.

More to come!

Edited September 15, 2009 by BUICK RACER (see edit history)

[Thriller]

OK...so how far from Ames is there a drag strip? I found one in Cedar Falls, but that is about 100 miles. Ames used to have a drag strip - Ames Drag Strip.

Yesterday I stumbled onto the Modified Driven class...so it got more likely that we will be driving the '76 as well as the '54. I'd be curious to see what Spirit and I could do...all in fun, not serious racing mind you. A few quick lessons from Roberta and I'd be happy to give a shot.

[Brad Conley]

uhhh, 'berta....you forgot the BPG event in your tag line. ;)

[NTX5467]

THANKS for that recap of racing events which happened during BCA National Meets, Roberta!

At the meets we did in Plano, one thing Plano isn't near is a drag strip. Texas Motorplex is a good hour on the other side of Dallas. There are some other tracks in North Texas, but at least an hour's drive through "traffic". Most of the old and OLDER tracks in the more "inner" Dallas/Fort Worth area were closed/sold so the land could be redeveloped for other uses. As far out of town as Texas Motorplex was when it was built, "civilization" is now encroaching into its formerly more agricultural area.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[Guest BJM]

OK...so how far from Ames is there a drag strip? I found one in Cedar Falls, but that is about 100 miles. Ames used to have a drag strip - Ames Drag Strip.

Yesterday I stumbled onto the Modified Driven class...so it got more likely that we will be driving the '76 as well as the '54. I'd be curious to see what Spirit and I could do...all in fun, not serious racing mind you. A few quick lessons from Roberta and I'd be happy to give a shot.

Derek,

To the best of my knowledge - Eddyville Raceway is the closest and it's not close. Boone Iowa - which is a destination for an event - the Boone and Scenic Railway Excursion - has a dirt track raceway and I think it is set to do a circle 8 but I don't think we want to run our pristine Buicks into each other!

[BUICK RACER]

uhhh, 'berta....you forgot the BPG event in your tag line. ;)

Added!!

[RICK YOUNG]

The closest Drag Strip is Humboldt County Drag Strip. 50 mile north of Ames near town of Humboldt.

From which I have 5 trophies albeit 40 years old (the trophies I mean).

Blacktop west of Jewell doesn't sound as fun of a idea as it used to.

[Guest Buick61]

I bought my 1961 Buick when I was 15 in 1997.

I joined the BCA shortly thereafter, but my membership has since lapsed.

I just found my original card and will re-join.

I'm 27 now and I don't see too may people in the under 35 crowd with old cars, so I'm concerned about the knowledge base disappearing for all cars, not just Buicks.

[Guest El_Diablo]

Was a new Bugle published since the July issue? The website doesn't tell there is a new one - has the BCA stopped publishing its magazine??

The Buick Bugle

[RICK YOUNG]

BUICK61

You may be able to get your original member number.

Welcome Back

[NTX5467]

That particular webpage was updated in July, 2009. "Hard Copy" of the magazine has NOT stopped being printed. Obviously . . . the printed copy happens FIRST, then it's put into electronic format LATER, then posted by VOLUNTEERS to the BCA's website.

In a discussion of standardized definitions of "broadband", it seems the Obama admin is wanting a standardized definition (as in speed) of this type of service. Almost every service provider in the USA wants SLOWER speeds than many now have as "the definition standarde" for "broadband". Seems the USA's broadband rates as the 19th fastest version on the planet. What is in Europe is significantly faster, which could make online e-zines more popular and downloadable.

Perhaps I'm showing my age, but I've been cooked a few times with GM's electronic parts book databases being updated and errors (which later caused problems!) were fixed. "After the update", the errors and their problems were revealed. In such a digital format, you CANNOT track these things after they are updated! Trying to explain how the error happened when you CANNOT duplicate how it happened, at the later date, only makes you look like YOU were the issue rather than an earlier version of the database! With a paper book, unless you throw it away, you have an archived item that CAN be researched AFTER the new, updated versions are printed. Unless YOU have been in such a situation, you might not understand how or why archived hard copy data can be important.

For example, when the Trailblazer platform was introduced, the power window switches had TWO part numbers listed for the same part and description. The one that looked "normal" was in the price book, the other one was not. Order the wrong one and it was cancelled. Order the "normal" one, it might take a while to get. Unless you actively "bird-dogged" your order, you did NOT know these things . . . other than there was an irate customer with a non-fully-functioning NEW vehicle and managers that were getting irate, too. NO explanation as to why there were two part numbers, just that they were there and each appeared legitimate. Not just on one power window switch, but on ALL of them. Later catalog updates did NOT have the dual numbers for the same part description. UNLESS you knew the history of those parts in that catalog, from "being there", when the database was updated, there was no evidence of their ever having existed.

The earlier "saving grace" was that, back then, the database was on a local DVD server, in-house. With the correct software, a normal PC could read them. I suspect that FEW had that capabilities. Now, it's Internet-based, for more current and quicker data updates.

As GM's Service Information is has been fully-Interneted for a good while, unless you might find an earlier version of a particular service bulletin (TSB), all you'll find on the listings are the current ones . . . even IF the current ones have deleted some labor operation steps from the original, which could also justify a lesser labor time being paid for the particular warranty repair. No way to see if something's been deleted unless you might have printed a hard copy of the TSB and have it in your files, for archived comparison. When you "lose the paper", you also lose all of your historical tracking information!

Of course, as the particular BCA webpage states, every BCA member gets a subscription to the Award Winning Magazine, THE BUGLE, as part of their BCA membership dues. Being it's currently in "hard copy" format FIRST, that's what the members get each month.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Edited September 20, 2009 by NTX5467
content (see edit history)

[Guest El_Diablo]

Well, I work for a company in the finance business and am responsible for some things in PR and marketing. I also write articles for our magazine, which has 35,000 addressees. The printery only accepts a PDF/X-3 for a good quality - so we have the digital version before the issue is printed. I guess the Buick is created with the computer as well.

Volunteers or not. I am not a member of the BCA, but a membership costs 68 USD for me. For three years 194 USD. For about 200 USD I expect a certain standard. In Germany they start teaching pupils how to build a website in 7th grade. I can imagine they teach it in the US as well. So these are the standards every website is measured with.

If the BCA only tells members about the membership benefits, why should any new one join it? Tell the people what you've got. I wrote two emails, one to the BCA Office about membership fees and one to the 'Bugle Chapter' about some back issues. Never got any reply.

The only recent Bugle issue I read was the June issue. The letter from the president says the BCA must act like a private company. If the BCA was one, it would be bankrupt already.

Maybe this sounds rude, but please understand it as a wake-up call: If you don't do the BASICS - have an up-to-date website, tell the people about your benefits and aswer emails - there is no need to argue about cool stuff.

The question for me is not HOW the BCA can survive (in this thread are many ideas), the question is IF the BCA can survive. Stop talking, start acting!

[BUICK RACER]

Was a new Bugle published since the July issue? The website doesn't tell there is a new one - has the BCA stopped publishing its magazine??

The Buick Bugle

The Bugle covers are posted as they are received, there are some times when there is some lag time which will be resolved in a few days. Just cause the covers aren't posted doesn't mean the Bugle wasn't sent out.

[gsjohnny]

i have been an on and off member. currently off.

regards to how to survive or recruit and keep new members. the first thing i would change is the show format. staging cars by yrs does not promote anything but what i would call snobbery. the older generation does not play well with the younger crowd (i'm 58) and newer cars. if you want to attract and keep BCA members, you need to mix show format. put the cars in line as they come in or back to back 10' and 40's, 20's and 60's, 30 and 70's, etc. this way they can meet and greet their neighbor. they could or should show each other their car, offer to sit in it, maybe after show the offer a ride or even drive it. if you cant do that any of that, my suggestion is to stay home. harsh, but truthful. with our cars, whether its the show car or race car, is open for any of the ideas i mention. its only a piece of metal and can be fixed if broken.

the other concern is pricing or selling of cars and parts. if you want or need the next generation to help this club succeed you definately need the cars to be affordable. $100,000 cars and owners do not necessarily have the club in their best interest. its an investment to be sold for $125,000. who wins, not the club.

i was at a buick show today and discussing this. what are you going to do with the car when you die? will it be passed on to a family member who is not interested in the bca? if sold, will it be affordable to someone who really wants a buick, but cant afford your ridiculous price? no new member there. bca loses again.

i am into the performance cars and parts and they are getting stupidly priced like the old cars. if you want money, get out of my sandbox and go play the stock market. if you want buicks, keep it affordable for those of us who enjoys buicks. in other words, we are are own worst enemy.

i could go on, but i hate typing. if you want/need any more opinions i can call you.

john