Best All Time Designer?

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Following Linc400's lead here is something else to argue about besides politics. (Actually, hoping this leads to fun discussion.) Who is your favorite designer? Ray Dietrich gets my vote - his designs are unmistakable; elegant but not stodgy. I also believe he influenced many designers of the era including Buehrig, a close second with maybe a wider range of style. He did amazing work at a young age, and influenced many later designs as well.

Thoughts? Others from the Classic era or others from any era?

[Dave@Moon]

Although it's probably the freest form of automotive design, I prefer sports cars as a measure of a designer's pallet.

Giovanni Battista (Pinin) Farina does it for me. If the only car he ever drew was the Alfa Romeo Guilietta Spyder he'd be in my book. Breathtaking and timeless at a time when those terms didn't come up too often. And then there's the first Cisitalia, about a dozen Ferraris, a half-dozen gorgeous Lancias, and many more.

William Lyons, with no formal training, did every Jaguar design except the racing cars and the E-type (which weren't bad work either by staff designer Malcom Sayer) during his term as company president. An amazing body of work from someone who designed the cars as a sidelight of the job!

Among luxury car designers there's Alan Leamy and Gordon Buehrig at Auburn/Cord/Duesenberg, with Buehrig's later work at Ford (including the Continental Mark II). Between the 2 of them they defined poise in a luxury car.

And then there's Dick Teague at AMC. When he was working during periods where money wasn't an overriding issue he did some great work. The 1964 Rambler American and the !968 Javelin/AMX are the most underrated designs of that decade. If they said "Pontiac" on the side they'd be icons like the Mustang by now.

Finally Bob Bourke's 1953 Studebaker coupe is the best looking passenger car ever done.

[rocketraider]

My vote goes to Bill Mitchell. He brought General Motors out of the age of excess into a decade of unmistakable and highly defined vehicles. Think Corvette, Riviera/Toronado/Eldorado, late 60s GM C-body cars and the 69-72 GP/Monte Carlo/Cutlass Supreme. Clean, elegant, and unmistakably GM.

Arguably the last time the General was on top of the world. I don't know what happened to them after that.

Of course, selecting the best is a near impossible task, because there were many outstanding in their field.

[TG57Roadmaster]

Steve,

That's quite a can of worms you cracked open here...there are too many great ones to have a favorite. If I had to pick one, though, from the Classic Era, it would be...

Amos Northup, for his '31 REO Royale, '32 Graham Blue Streak Eight, and the '38 Graham Sharknose, the latter of which he was finishing at the time his untimely death in February, 1937, after complications from slipping on ice.

But, gosh, there are so many others.

Great thread idea, BTW,

TG

[Studemax]

Dutch Darrin gave us the "Darrin Dip", the styling feature that separated the front of the car from the rear. It was used on cars from the 40's until now.

And Raymond Loewy had influence over 4 decades of styling, with the penultimate results being the '50 - '51 bulletnose Studebakers, the '53 lowboy coupe, and the '63 Avanti.

[1937hd45]

If form truely follows function then Harry A. Miller has them all beat.

[MCHinson]

With all of the highbrow design work by others, I don't expect anybody to agree, but I am sort of partial to Henry and Edsel Ford's work on the Ford Model A!

[Richard Lichtfel]

Alberto Vargas has the best designs

[keiser31]

Alberto Vargas has the best designs

You are SOOOOOOOOO right!!

[Jim Rohn]

Alberto Vargas has the best designs

that is right, nothing was said about an AUTOMOTIVE designer ....

Harley Earl had cool designs for automobiles ...

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Excellent point. BTW - I still need a couple of Texaco ash trays that feature Vargas' best work to complete my collection!

Glad people seem to enjoy the thread and there are some great designers mentioned so far...

[Guest 1926pack]

Don't forget a guy by the name of Bugatti

[Guest Bob Call]

What about Karl Benz who started the whole thing?

[Dandy Dave]

If Preston Thomas Tucker and designer Alex Tremulis ever really got the Tucker manufacturing plant off the ground, who knows what would have happend..... :cool: Dandy Dave!

Edited August 9, 2009 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[keiser31]

I'd say whoever did THIS car gets a good high vote from me.

[Dandy Dave]

I'd say whoever did THIS car gets a good high vote from me.

I cannot deny that that is one cool car...:cool: Dandy Dave!

[Studemax]

I'd say whoever did THIS car gets a good high vote from me.

That's another project from the Blastolene Brothers.

[keiser31]

That's another project from the Blastolene Brothers.

I believe that it's an original custom bodied Delahaye, not a Blostolene car.

[Dave@Moon]

It's a Blastolene B-702 ( B - 702 Final ). No Delahaye road car that I've seen (or can find online) had exposed exhaust.

[keiser31]

Well, I'll be dipped!! You guys are right. It IS a Blastolene car! My tail is now between my legs and I am cowering in the corner from shame.

[Steve Braverman]

John Wilkinson gets my vote. He took his theory of scientific light weight to extremes, and built some of the most innovative cars ever.

[Ivan Saxton]

I have a real problem in comparing outstanding designers across eras, disciplnes, and purposes. An excellent reference book to learn basic information about designers you may not have encountered through their work is Barker & Harding's "Automobile Design: Great Designers and Their Work".

Amedee Bolle (pere) was a bell-founder from leMans, and when he finished building his first automobile in 1873, there was no Prior Art. Everything he build was product of the reasoning of his own mind. When he started to build his first fast private carriage in 1868 he was just 23 years old. It was capable of 25mph, though needing to replenish its water every 15 1/2 miles. It had independant front suspension with elliptical cam steering that was geometrically precise to vey acute angles. He drove it from leMans to Paris without problems, and gave demonstration rides there for some days. His subsequent automobiles were successively lighter, faster, and of greter range between water stops. by 1880 one was capable of 37mph. He invented the geared transmissionfront wheel drive, four wheel drive, power-assisted clutch and steering, and the front-mounted vertical engine. His failure to succed comercially was partly because of the limitations of the non-condensing steem engine which was the only practiccal motive power; and probably also because people had not their understanding that personal transport not powered by horse would dominate the future.

Amedee abandonned this work and reverted to bell-founding to restore his family's financial viability, which he delegated the automotive wok to his 18 year old son Amedee (fils). Yet his 1880 ca ran in the Paris-Bordeaux-Paris race and finished the course in 1895!

Amedee (fils) became an independant pioneer of the internal combustion engine which was being developed by others; but without his father's guidance. One of his first gasoline engines was a three cylinder rotary engine intended for an airship. It had a variable pitch propellor. He invented the gas turbine, turbocharging, and the first automatic carburettor. He invented and built the first aerodynamic bodywork, and in1899 one such car had an underslung chassis. And so on...

Hans Ledwinka's inventiveness was model and inspiration for Porsche. His first car with 4 wheell brakes was a Nesseldorf of 1909, and his brillint Steyr of the earl 1920's had hemispherical combustion chambers with sohc and inclined valves. Porsche succeded him at Steyr while he returned to Czechoslovakia to produce the horizontal twin cylinder, air-cooled tatra light car wit backbone chassis and independant rear suspension. All his Tatras were economical, of modest displacement, and with exceptional road handling and performance. His commercial vehicles always had swing axle drive.

The two great artists and designers of racing cars pre-war were Harry Miller and Vittorio Jano at Alfa Romeo. Jano's post-war brilliance was reflected in his work with others in the Lancia Aurelias and the Formula 1 D50 cars, which were just becoming successful when the company failed and its ownership was lost to the Lancia family; and the F1 cars were donated to Ferrari to mix and muck up. Yet in 1956 Fangio won the Fi Driver's Championship in the D50.

The V6 all-independant Aurelia with inboard brakes on the rear transaxle was virtually F1 technology in a family road car, capable of extraordinay point-to-point travelling times because of their roadability, even with moderate power and displacement. A 1750cc Aurelia GT with top speed of about 100mph finished second in the 1951 Mille Miglia (1000miles) just 20 minutes behind the winning 4.2 litre V12 Ferrari which had a top speed of 160mph. At 850 miles the Lancia trailed by less than 3 minutes, before the rain stopped.

Duesenbergs are notable for the number of different engine designs of great variety and distinction that they produced over a few years for racing and road cars, aircraft, and marine duty. Their own first passenger cars in the early 1920's were built closely similar in basic design to their successful track racing cars. he A model was lighterand faster than most other road cars, and was built for lightness, strength, rigidity, and reiability. Jimmy Murphy won the 1921 Fench Grand Prix with the first hydraulic brakes by a margin of 15 minutes! The hydraulic brakes of the A would stop the car from 30mph in 30 feet; and from 50 mph in 86 feet. The Traffic Accident Commission here make themselves look completely stupid by making TV ads, which seem to indicate they believe this sort of braking performance is impossible for modern drivers in modern cars on modern tyres and modern roads.

In 1923 Bugatti stole the chance to examine Duesenberg brakes and engine design by detaining the visiting 23 year old Alan Powell from Melbourne on an extended personal tour of his estate while his mechanics partly dismantled Alan's new Duesenberg! Alan Powell became furious again at the memory of it when I met him at work at his city office sixty years later. He said "It never did him any good. He didn't learn why his engine deisn was so bad, and he still used clothes-line wire to work his brakes. Bugatti was an artist, who put beautiful looking engines in wonderfully good chassis. But his engine design never improved until he bought two Millers to copy. In some ways his cars were a partial triumph of workmanship over design. When Geoff Fullard here restored his Type 43 Bugatti, he had to make his own new roller bearing crankshaft, but properly without Bugatti faults in the lubrication system. Geoff's bearing rollers were small diameter like a Velocette, and they track properly and bont rattle like loose bolts..

The much larger diameter Bugatti rollers dont track properly.

Bugatti was the most artistic of early designers. I woul;d love to have a type 57 Bugatti. When I have restored two 1923 cuff valve Peugeots, maybe someone will trade me a T57 for one of them.

Body style is another category. Bugatti's cars were most beautiful.

And Washington Roebling II and Finley Robertson Porter produced one of the best cars of that Mercer's era for style and proportion in relation to function.

Pinninfarina produced some of the most beautifully styled and finished cars of later era. Bridgit Bardot was an exceptional adornment to the pinifarina cars she owned. I am 20 feet away from an unrestored Pininfarina FIAT 1500 "cabriolet", which is a bit similar to the more familiar MGA. The FIAT-OSCA has Maserati brothers detuned 1500cc F1 racing engine.

Now one of the most difficult types of auto of the 1920's for a designer to make refined and elegant was a big closed car. As I finish this post my son Stirling will attach for your interest a photo of a car that an eldely lady in Tasmania learned to drive in before the War. The picture was taken somewhere in the central goldfields area of Victoria. It is a late 1927 AA Stutz 145" wheelbase LeBaron "Prince of Wales'5 passenger close coupled sedan. The fenders are quite different and very elegant, while the standard Stutz fenders were not. And the top-hinged locker behind the body, which follows the line of the fenders, must nearly be the first trunk that was designed as an integral part of the body. This was the design work of a young man at LeBaron called Hugo Pfau, who has left us in his book "The Custom Body Era"an excellent account of this part of the motor industry. Ray Wolff put me intouch with Hugo, who told me that Lebaron made five of these; and that amazingly, three came to Australia. The car in this photo is not the same one that I am restoring. My car was never painted in such a dark colour. This is an example of the best of American custom design bodies, which were the work of a number of designers. I doubt it really matters who was the best. Ivan Saxton

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Has everyone forgotten Walter Marr at Buick? Tilt steering wheel (1903), telescoping steering wheel (1914), DOHC car (1903), nearly 80 carburetor patents. His draftsman protege was Leo Goosen (Miller and Offenhauser and 36 Indy 500 wins). His influence on American car and racing practices continues to this day.

If you want to talk European, you would do well to remember Marc Birgit, the Swiss in Hispano Suiza. His influence with the 1918 SPAD engine got everyone thinking, and his 1921 12CV airplane engine was copied by everyone and powered ALL the great fighter planes from every nation in WW2. Is that influential enough?

If you like sexy cars, Al Leamy gets my vote, 1929 Cord L-29 and the Model J Duesenberg and Gordon Buehrig as someone he influenced. Sadly, he also died young from pneumonia at 33, genius cut short.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[West Peterson]

It is my opinion that Alexis de Sakhnoffsky is hands down THE best automotive designer, bar none. de Sakhnoffsky also used the "Darrin dip" long before Darrin used it.

Edited August 10, 2009 by West Peterson
bad spelling (see edit history)

[Guest bkazmer]

I think we're starting to mix "design" in the engineering and styling senses.

How about some comments on the controversial pair of Figoni & Falaschi, or to their detractors, "Phony & Flashy"?

[Guest Siegfried]

This is a tough one for me. I love 'Vargas' just imagine a car by him, but I digress, so back to the topic...

Being partial to Karmann Ghia's I'll go with the Ghia Studios. Designed by Ghia, built by Karmann, and powered by old reliable Volkswagen. A genuine coachbuilt car that was sold as a factory developed model. Volkswagen was lucky.

However, I love Loewy's design work for Studebaker, and also Darrin's work.

Almost all designers are superb, but who can ever forget the AMC designs? Matador, Marln, Javelin, Hornet, and Pacer? Now those 'STAND OUT' from the crowd. Love the Pacer. What a car!!!!!!!!

[Guest bkazmer]

Was Vargas a design consultant for GM's mid fifties' Dagmar front ends?

[keiser31]

Was Vargas a design consultant for GM's mid fifties' Dagmar front ends?

Uhhhhh...............................no.

[Barry Wolk]

with Buehrig's later work at Ford (including the Continental Mark II)

Gordon Buerhig was not part of the Mark II design team, from my understanding. He came on board after the final design was selected from the team competition. His job as Body Engineer and resin model builder greatly refined the design and made it buildable. He is certainly credited for many innovations. The most distinct and obvious is the extremely small A-pillar. You can literally wrap your thumb and fingers around it.

I would have to state that Gordon Buehrig's work on the Auburn Boattail Speedster is what got me interested in cars. While I could never drive one, I wanted to see if I could even fit in one. The answer is no. The gear shift lever was between my legs, The steering wheel was cutting off circulation to my lower extremities and my head greatly bulged the convertible top. I have a model of one instead.

[Reatta Man]

Since we are all stretching the envelope here a bit, there is one custom designer who, if nothing else, demonstrated that cars can be moulded into just about any purpose and that beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder:

George Barris!

Consider how you almost couldn't pick up a copy of Hot Rod or some other custom car magazine in the 60's without seeing one of his designs or a car influenced by him! Also, consider the range of his work, and that he took car design and virtually created the Kalifornia Kustom technique:

Kustoms and Hotrods:

kustoms

Novelty Cars:

novelty

Movie Cars:

tv

Joe

[stock_steve]

Being partial to Karmann Ghia's I'll go with the Ghia Studios. Designed by Ghia, built by Karmann, and powered by old reliable Volkswagen. A genuine coachbuilt car that was sold as a factory developed model.

Karmann Ghia = "Beetle In A Cocktail Dress" (wish I could take credit for that)

Ditto that--and specifically Luigi Segre, ref:

Ghia History

There is a school of thought that Segre influenced some Chrysler designs also.

Carrozzeria Ghia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I guess Wilhelm Karmann must also be given "some" credit!

Anyway, good topic Steve, and good choice Semi-I.

[StillOutThere]

I'm won't claim he was the best designer of all time but he must be mentioned here because for a few years at a highlight in American design, Virgil Exner was certainly at the top of the class, then he had heart problems and died too soon.

[Guest Skyking]

Seeing that I'm quite partial to Nash Metropolitans, I'll vote for William Flajole, the designer of the car called " The World's Smartest Smaller Car!". His design was clean, practicle and well proportioned.

[mrpushbutton]

It is important when discussing the cheif stylists of the large (well, once large) manufacturing concerns, GM, Ford, Chrysler and others--that Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell, Virgil Exner, and others were desing executives, less apt to sit at the design board and more apt to sit in meetings and sell what ther staff produced. There were exceptions, especially in Mitchell and Exner's case, but they commanded huge staffs of designers, their main contribution being the last set of "best trained" eyes to approve what their underlings wrought. In the case of Lowey, he ran a worldwide design "Factory", designing everything that could be designed. His actual work on automobile body designs might in actuallity be very small.

I had the pleasure of knowing Dave Holls, Frank Hershey, Dick Teague and Strother McMinn, the "Father of all stylists today" Mac was a dear friend and it was always intersting to hear his opinion on a particular design.