Driving after the roads are salted

[1935Packard]

I live in the mid-atlantic area, and we usually get snow a handful of times a year. The roads are usually salted just before a snow or when the snow starts. Here's my question: How long is best to wait after the roads are salted so as to minimize the damage to our cars?

I've generally figured that I need to wait until there's a good rain storm to wash the salt away. Once the road is dry after that good rain, I usually feel okay driving so long as I can't actually see any salt on the roads. My thinking is that the roads are pretty safe so long as the rain has washed away the salt, but probably not until then.

Is that too cautious? Not cautious enough? I'd be interested in your take.

[Guest ZondaC12]

That's my view. Though I go absolutely nuts over the winter, I have very little patience. Last sunday before mom took me back to school for the week (live on campus 25 min away) I took the 38 out for about 15 min. I had an idea of the route I wanted to take so Sat while I was out I scoped it out, the pavement looked like it would any other time of year (though ya do get used to the look and kinda forget what clean pavement looks like!!! ) so I said "I'm doin' it".

If ya really wanted to be sure you could wait until you get like a good 8 hours worth of rain and there isn't salty snow built up on the side of the road that will melt and bring it back on, I would think. I prrrrrobably shouldn't do what I do, but again I OPENLY admit it I'm a kid and I have no patience and have an extremely hard time going without my Buick for ANY period of time. I also figure being that it's original the layers of dirt and crud (not to mention oil and tranny leaks) coating everything will probably help protect it . Also if the road is dry the salt is solid, not dissovled in water once it's on the metal if it gets there, so anything it does will be MUCH slower and weaker than if it had the water solution which increases the surface area for reaction and thus electron transfer greatly, thus faster rusting as compared with much less or maybe none at all if the dusty salt doesn't sit there too long (one of the few things that stuck with me very well in HS chem!! I wonder why!!! )

Even if it looks good I don't take the car out if I see a tractor trailer go by and a huge white dust cloud flies up behind it.

[35gene]

I put them away in oct and get going again at the end of april were is the sun??

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also if the road is dry the salt is solid, not dissovled in water once it's on the metal if it gets there, so anything it does will be MUCH slower and weaker than if it had the water solution... </div></div>

Sorry, Paul, but this is <span style="text-decoration: underline">very</span> wrong! In cold weather dry salt is probably <span style="text-decoration: underline">worse</span> than getting wet salt under the car.

The reason is really very simple. When you're finally done driving around the car's metal body will be at the outdoor air temperature. As soon as you drive it into the garage, even if it's only a few degrees warmer in there, the car will "sweat" like a cold glass of lemonade in the summer heat. Water will condense on <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">all</span></span> of the hidden surfaces inside the car, even (and especially) those that wouldn't have been splashed with salty water. They <span style="text-decoration: underline">very</span> likely had some dry salt deposited on them by moving air currents. And since you're only dealing with a few milliliters of condensed water (or less) instead of a splashed solution off of the road, the concentration of salt in the "sweat" is almost certainly at the saturation point of sodium chloride.

Of course if you leave the car outside and keep it cold this won't occur. However in that case you'll be dealing with <span style="text-decoration: underline">daily</span> wetting of the inner surfaces from the diurnal dew/frost cycles. That's almost certainly even worse, depending on conditions.

I wait for at least <span style="font-weight: bold">TWO</span> good hard rains to wash the salt away before I drive my antique. I could lick the street to check for traces of salt , but I think a double washing is good enough!

[Dandy Dave]

I'm tired of salt on the roads. Even when it's dry, all you see is the white powder on the roads. I would say that after a good rain, and when the roads dry up, it would be OK.

If there is powder on the car, when moistue gets to it in the form of dew, or fog, It will start to do its thing.

I think I'm gonna turn Rebel and move South.

Seems to be the best way to avoid it, is to avoid it altogether.

South of the Mason Dixon here I come!

Dave!

[1935Packard]

One option that has been recommended to me is to wash the underbody of the car after taking it out in winter, on the theory that you can wash away the salt that may have gotten on the car before putting it back in the garage. I guess that depends on how well the wash removes the salt -- if it doesn't remove it, it just makes it worse. But is that generally a good idea?

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1935Packard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One option that has been recommended to me is to wash the underbody of the car after taking it out in winter, on the theory that you can wash away the salt that may have gotten on the car before putting it back in the garage. I guess that depends on how well the wash removes the salt -- if it doesn't remove it, it just makes it worse. But is that generally a good idea? </div></div>

If you <span style="text-decoration: underline">have</span> to take it out, it's a good idea. However, like I said in the post above dry salt will be blown into areas that can't be reached with a water spray. So will the fine spray made by the tires as you drive around.

[Guest ZondaC12]

UGH. Didn't think of that. Well as I said I don't just take the Buick out whenever, I restrain myself SOMEwhat. Honestly I don't even like to SEE white on the underside, it just looks awful anyway. But that's all the more reason to be all the more careful.

If I DO stay up here when I'm older (I'd really like to go south but who knows gotta go where the jobs are right? And staying near family and all that) part of the garage/shop I will eventually build WILL have either a custom made wash bay. Either that or I'll simply build into the driveway outside or into the floor of one area of the shop, a pipe with holes in it hooked to a pressure washer that will accomplish the same thing as a car wash bottom blast.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1DandyDaves</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I think I'm gonna turn Rebel and move South.

Seems to be the best way to avoid it, is to avoid it altogether.

</div></div>

This isn't so true either, in Florida anyway.......

When I was living in Daytona I had to wipe my car down after bringing it into the garage. You could see the salt on the top instead of the bottom. There was actually salt from the ocean in the air. Cars there rot from the top down.

[JohnD1956]

One winter I left the Electra out under a coverall car cover, albeit one without the ends. The car was not driven all winter. Towards the end of the winter I was amazed at the coating of salt on the car. All I can figure is the cars on the road kicked up the dust and the wind blew it onto the car. So my recommendation is to spend some $$ and have a water tap hooked up with hot and cold water supply so you can get the hose out during the few nice days in the winter and do a serious and thorough underbody wash.

I include inside the front fender wells, from the front door jamb side. Also we bought a sturdy looking watering wand at Walmart. This one has an extendable shaft so I can open it up and with the angle on the top, it can be aimed directly up to wash the underside and I am pretty sure it gets into the frame rails etc.

I know water is not a cars best friend, but clean water is better than a 30 second undercar blast at the car wash which does not thoroughly eliminate the salts from the surfaces. At least that's what I think.

JD

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave@Moon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I wait for at least <span style="font-weight: bold">TWO</span> good hard rains to wash the salt away before I drive my antique. I could lick the street to check for traces of salt , but I think a double washing is good enough! </div></div>

In certain parts of the country salt is not the only material that is placed on the roads in winter.

Here in Eastern Pennsylvania many road departments use "Anti-Skid" material.

This material contains very small stones, sand and even small bits of glass.

After one or two rain storms, salt will get washed away but anti-skid material hangs around a LOT longer.

This material tends to accumulate on the sides of lanes and roads and at intersections.

Anti-Skid material left on the road becomes like sand blasting media when other vehicles (especially large vehicles)

fire it at vehicles behind and aside of them effectively "sand blasting" the paint on the vehicle.

Road Salt and Anti-Skid material are the two main reasons why my antique vehicles do not go out much, if at all in the winter.

After the winter season is over many road departments use street sweepers to clean up all the left over Anti-Skid material left on the roads and it is recycled.

Once this material is cleaned up in the spring then I bring out my vehicles.

[Guest elmo39]

I have always thought that i lived in godsown country but until reading these post i never realised how well off we are here in NZ. we can drive our old cars winter and summer , yes we do get snow and ice in some parts of the country but salt is not used on the roads . i am fortunate , were i live snow only settles on the ground about every 5-10 years and then only about 2-3 inches. as for a bit of rain water on them they were built to cope with it. i think if i had the same conditions as some of you do, only being able to use my car in the late spring and summer i would have to consider another hobby

[Guest]

My daily driver for the last 49 years only has two small rust spots. Twenty five of those years was where there was snow and ice and salted roads (Manitoba, Saskatchewan and the interior of BC). The car was never kept in an heated garage and was never babied as to when it was on the road (almost every day). I believe that when it had snow, ice and salt on it it was kept cold is the reason there is so little rust. As soon as the weather started to warm up (ie get above zero farenheight) I would was it real well paying special attention to the under carriage. It seems to me that as soon as the salt is wet and the temperature rises that is when the chemical action takes place.

[Dandy Dave]

Skyking, You are so right about the Florida coast and salt.

I was thinking more like North or South Carolina, Maybe Georgia and not near the ocean. I don't mind a little cold weather but have had enough of the North East.

I'm sure I could open a lawn mower, tractor, old car repair shop in Dixie and do alright.

I'm looking for a town that would welcome a small, much needed business that does not have things zoned so bad that you can't put a sign up and open the doors with out having to jump though ropes and be prosecuted in the form of taxes to do it, if they let you at all. It took my brother a year to get a building permit for a 3 bay garage and apartment in one end. No signs allowed.

And they wonder where all the Farms have gone up here and why young folks move out and move on.

Dave!

[Guest AntarcticDave]

We have mag chloride here. I don't drive the 47 when it's on the roads, but when I get concerned about it on the underside of my daily driver (and it's above freezing out), I run a hose down the driveway, drive the car over it, put a garden sprinkler on the end of the hose, turn it on and slowly pull it up under the car, giving it plenty of time to rinse everything off as it moves from back to front.

[Argyll]

Over here the roads are salted nearly every day throughout the cold weather, so I never take our Chevy out from the 1st October until the 31st March as the salt causes a huge amount of damage.

I used the car once when family wanted to go for a drive one Christmas day when it was dry and the sun was shining - big mistake! Even though (I thought) I washed the car down and then thoroughly dried it, when I opened the garage up a week later all the chrome had tiny little rust spots on it and the underside of the car was covered in "bursts" where the underseal obviously had little splits in it and the salt / water got in and opened them up as the rust expanded.

My best advice is the salt takes ages to run off the highway, so if its not a matter of life or death keep your classic in for at least a month after the trucks have stopped gritting. Trust me here, its not worth the pain of watching your pride & joy turning into rusty dust.

Argyll.

[Matt Harwood]

Four or five years ago, the City of Cleveland started using some kind of liquid ice melt in addition to the salt. There are two different kinds of trucks spreading both (lord help you if you get behind the liquid spreader). Apparently the liquid form is highly concentrated and will go to work on your car wet or dry and is extremely aggressive in all temperatures (regular rock salt doesn't work under ~15 degrees, I believe). This liquid is better at melting snow, but it's like acid on your car. The news just had a series on this stuff and local body shops are saying that they're seeing 2-3 year old cars rusting right through the sheetmetal because of it.

I don't know that there's anything one can do to completely stop the process except to not drive in the winter and get a disposable beater. I wash frequently and make Julia do the same--we buy "season passes" at the local carwash. Although it's not ideal, at least it's something.

I'm also relieved that our daily drivers were fully galvanized from the factory and carry a 12-year rust-through warranty. On the other hand, my Dodge Ram's chassis has apparently rusted into one solid piece and is impossible to disassemble without a torch and some foul language. Body looks great, cast iron parts, nuts and bolts underneath not so much. I'm certain this is because of this road slime--I've never seen it so bad on any other vehicle I've owned.

[Guest ZondaC12]

SHEEESH I guess I shouldn't complain so much, that "slime" is the most evil thing I've ever heard of! That is really scary, 2-3 years!

I really like the lawn sprinkler idea too! Can't belive I never thought of that.

[Twitch]

I guess some folks back East still drive their collectable in less than sunny weather. I know a lot put their cars to bed for winter too. Sure I know we all just wanna drive 'em and can't wait but 99% of us in Southern California never ever drive in the rain due to the consequences much less ponder the results of salt. Most have replaced the wipers with chrome bullets.

Who drives in weather- wh doesn't? We should do a poll, huh?

[Dave@Moon]

Here's a link to the discussion we had on this topic last year: Road Salt?. The discussion on CaCl solutions towards the end of the thread is especially important. The damage it does to the car's body is the least of the concerns around it.

[Guest Skyking]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Four or five years ago, the City of Cleveland started using some kind of liquid ice melt in addition to the salt. There are two different kinds of trucks spreading both (lord help you if you get behind the liquid spreader). Apparently the liquid form is highly concentrated and will go to work on your car wet or dry and is extremely aggressive in all temperatures (regular rock salt doesn't work under ~15 degrees, I believe). This liquid is better at melting snow, but it's like acid on your car. The news just had a series on this stuff and local body shops are saying that they're seeing 2-3 year old cars rusting right through the sheetmetal because of it.

</div></div>

Matt, I'm surprised the DEM will let them use that stuff. Sounds dangerous going down the drains.

[old gto]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 35gene</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I put them away in oct and get going again at the end of april were is the sun?? </div></div> <span style="color: #3333FF">We have it...sorry. But we also have salty beaches that people aren`t afraid to drive on...(what are they thinking?) </span>

[Guest ZondaC12]

The sun's been making rounds up here the last few days in full force but it aint doin JACK! Last time I checked I DIDNT live in a cryogenic freezer unit, but I'm questioning whether or not that fact has remained fact right now. Ugh next week will be upper 30s that I can deal with!

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I usually figure it is OK to get a little exercise after one or two good rains, if the roads are dry. One thing to remember, for a car like a '35 Packard is ground clearance. I have driven my A in winter and looked underneath in spring, no visible remnants of salt. Personally, if the weather permits, and the car is not set up for long term storage, I think the benefits of a couple of mid winter runs outweigh any small amount of crud (gets there even in summertime) but I am talking about drivers, not show only cars (probably not driven much in summer anyway.) Like oil brand and type, though, there is no shortage of opinions on this especially for us in the north!

[1935Packard]

A thoughtful comment as usual, Steve.

[MarkV]

I am so glad that I live in S. CA! The worst I have to contend with is the rain!

[MCHinson]

DandyDave,

Come on down! Here in my town, the zoning and codes are a lot easier to deal with than what you are apparently dealing with. Even though you might not want to live in town here where I do, within about 15 miles of here you can chose from three different counties that have from very mild to about no zoning or regulations at all.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even though you might not want to live in town here where I do, within about 15 miles of here you can chose from three different counties that have from very mild to about no zoning or regulations at all. </div></div>

Well, that explains the industrial "hog farms".

[MCHinson]

Well, those are more like 50 miles away from here... but at least they don't make your car rust like all of this salt you guys are talking about.

We just have salt in the bacon and sausage.... not on the roads....

[Dandy Dave]

I've been a farm boy all my life. I'll be glad to fix that farmers speader anytime! Dave!

[R W Burgess]

Dave, they have lots of spreaders down there near Matt's place.

I know where you can get a mechanic's job in that area too, if you're so inclined. My son works for a service company in that area. They are really short of good working mechanics in that area. Must be the odor!

Wayne

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Well, those are more like 50 miles away from here... </div></div>

..., so far.

And industrial operations that size don't need or use no spreaders!

[Dandy Dave]

Wayne, I've enjoyed being self employed and plan on staying that way.

I'll be looking for a piece of property that I can expand on without being prosecuted to do so.

Any town without a good machanic, Machinest, Welder out there???

My Tools come with me, I just need a building about 50 X 100 to set up in, and a piece of 4 X 8 Sign to hang out by the road that won't be sawed down by the county the day after I put it up. Business friendly areas only please.

Dave!

[R W Burgess]

Dave, anyplace down there would probably work.

Your sign should read;

<span style="font-size: 11pt"> </span> <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000"> Mechanic!

Not afraid of Working for a Living!</span></span></span>

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+

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[Dandy Dave]

Wayne, You should see some of the stuff I do now. I know I would be doing a lot more if I could put up a better building around here and was allowed to put out a sign.

I have people up here waiting to get stuff done, but it is very discouraging to keep going feeling like my hand are tied behind my back.

I don't work well outside in the cold. 13 degrees F here. That is why I'm at the computer this morning.

I'm comming to look!..... Dave!

[R W Burgess]

Give Matt or me a call, I'm sure we can find you something. My son has property contacts down there. The weather is pretty comfortable year round, too.

Wayne

[Dandy Dave]

Thanks Wayne, Not sure how true it is, But I've heard it said that folks are getting out of New York State to the tune of 5000 per day.

A percentage of them seem to be people like me.

I saw a bumper sticker a while back that read,

"Will the last one leaving New York please turn out the lights!"

Dave!

[stock_steve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt Harwood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Four or five years ago, the City of Cleveland started using some kind of liquid ice melt in addition to the salt... </div></div>

Is this the stuff that we are seeing this season on I-95 in Southern Connecticut (especially in the vicinity of the Q Brige in New Haven) that shows up as "pinstripes" on the roadway? I've seen the big orange state trucks with some sort of liquid-dispensing rigs on the back, but never have specifically seen the "pinstripes" being applied. I am certainly going to think twice about bringing my old cars out this winter season...

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stock_steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Is this the stuff that we are seeing this season on I-95 in Southern Connecticut (especially in the vicinity of the Q Brige in New Haven) that shows up as "pinstripes" on the roadway? I've seen the big orange state trucks with some sort of liquid-dispensing rigs on the back, but never have specifically seen the "pinstripes" being applied. I am certainly going to think twice about bringing my old cars out this winter season... </div></div>

Here in Pennsylvania the Department of Transportation started "pre-treating" the roads with liquid chemicals a few years ago.

I believe these chemicals do something to keep snow from laying or freezing in the early stages of a snowfall.

Somehow these chemicals mean less plowing of small snowfalls and reduce the need for salt/cinders later in the snowfall cycle.

Here in PA, they seem to "pre-treat" the roads about one day or so before a snowfall is expected to begin.

This was just done the other day but no snow or rain actually fell. I noticed that my daily driver turned white after my round trip to work.

[MCHinson]

DandyDave, I know of a town of about 5,000 population, 50 miles or so from me that I would say has probably not had a decent machinest or welder since my father and one of my brothers died. They have a very pro business climate as the virtual death of the tobacco and textile industry there has left a pretty good void in the local economy. I grew up there and would recommend it to you. There are lots of other similar small towns in NC that are probably also well suited for what you are looking for.