Argyll

Hi Charlie, Just as you mentioned there isn't a lot about 10hp 2-cylinder engine Argylls, this catalogue page (attached) is all I have on the model which might be of a little help. The VCCGB as you commented earlier is probably the best source of info unless you can find another owner of a 2-cylinder, if I remember correctly the VCCGB lists member's who own Argylls in their membership records. Argyll (Bob)

I did Charlie, one of the engine.

Hi Charlie, Thanks, I visited Archie not long after he got it and took pictures so that'll help. I'll go my stuff tonight and see what I can find. I didn't attach anything in my last post, I thought about it, but I decided to confirm it was Archie's Argyll first.

Hi Charlie, Would this be Archie's recently bought Argyll? 'Argyll'

Hi Charlie, I'm the member Rocketraider mentioned 'Argyll', I've been researching the Argyll Motor Co. for a number of years and built up information about the cars and the company, but I will mention its not comprehensive. I'm happy to look through my files and photographs to see what I have on 2-cylinder engines and get back to you if you're still looking for info. What would be helpful is a photograph of your engine so I know what I'm looking for if possible? Argyll.

Hi Terry, That's a very comprehensive list, some obscure ones as you say, that's going to make for a very interesting presentation . The only gap I can think of just now is 'Galloway', a Scottish 'subsiduary' of Arrol Johnston . I've attached what little I have here at home that may be of interest, there's more on the net. The last 4 images are of our museum's Galloway.

Hi Terry, The Scottish car industry is (in my opinion) very interesting, the number of manufacturers for such a small country in the early 1900's is surprising. I hope preparing your presentation has been a voyage of discover for you, it certainly was me when I joined Glasgow Museums. 'The 3 'A's' (Albion, Argyll & Arrol Johnston*) probably are the best known Scottish makes, but there's a lot more lesser known tiny manufacturers that you hopefully have come across. Sadly with this Covid epidemic the museum has been closed since March and my research work has come almost to a halt barring 'Argyll' as all my manufacturer records are on file there. *Has your research led you to the Antarctic Arrol Johnston, a very interesting and unique car used on the Shackleton 'Nimrod Expedition' in 1907 / 09? (See attached images) Forgive me if you already know this, I use a web page that is run by a gent who is an engineering enthusiast and it may be of use to you as its my 'go to' site, especially as they have digitised the encyclopaedic British 'The Engineer' and 'Engineering' who reported on all the engineering developments during the early 20th Century - Grace's Guide : https://gracesguide.co.uk/Main_Page Period spark plugs are interesting, I was surprised how involved the various manufacturer's histories were. The museum has a small collection including Edison-Splitdorf examples, which I'd never heard of until I joined the museum. (A slight diversion if you wish, search for Holland Coachcraft Co., Ltd of Govan, Glasgow, they specialised in Art Deco van designs in the 1920's / 30s.)

Hi Terry, I've just come across your question, my apologies, its been a while(!) since I last visited. The earliest Argyll's (1900 /01) I've come across used De Dion and Motoring Manufacturing Engine Co., Ltd single-cylinder engines in its 2 3/4 and 5hp versions.

For a Ford 'Eight' from its hand book it states 'approximately 4 1/2 pints' For the later E494A its hand book suggests 4 1/2 pints + an additional 1/2 pint if oil filter accessory fitted = 5 pints. Forgive me if you already realise this - the measurements are Imperial pints.

Just a visit hoping this 'bump' might open up new contacts who might wish to share Argyll information they may have with me for my research project?

Thanks Bob - any ID number if the owner is comfortable sharing (engine, gearbox and / or rear axle) here or by PM really helps. I can't promise anything remarkable, but whatever I can come up with I'm sure would add to its history, it certainly helps me.

Hi Bob, I've sat down with the numbers you posted and they line up with other 1910 Argyll's with one exception - the 'X' in the alpha-numeric stamps is a new letter to me and I'm thinking it denotes an export identifier as your model was specifically manufactured for export only. May I ask please if you look at your front 'engine to chassis' mounting on the exhaust side there'll be a number stamped into it, something like 1M 6 S 0 123, could you let me know what's stamped into it? The picture below is from a similar model and you'll notice the exhaust manifold is the other way around and the spark plug positioning is slightly different to one of your engine images. I can see the hole in the firewall on your example so I'm assuming it was a conscious decision on your part to re-route the exhaust, but beware, purists will point that out.

Hi Terry, Thank you for sharing these excellent images, they're very much appreciated. To business - Image 1: Only my opinion, but to me its not an Argyll, radiator profile doesn't match the versions I know. I recognise it, but can I think of it right now, no I can't. Image 2 & 3: Definitely Argylls. Image 4: Leaning towards 'not an Argyll' I'm afraid - however the external profile of the radiator is Argyll'esque, but so are Sunbeams and Cadillacs if you squint hard enough. Sadly other key identification points are masked, I hate it when people pose in front of their cars! LOL!

Fantastic - thank you Bob! :cool: Give me a few days and I'll get back to you with anything that the numbers reveal.

Just me 'bumping' hoping for some more feedback.

Bob, when I was searching for Alex's engine I remembered I had this as well -

Went through my notes this afternoon and this is the closest I can get to match your engine's pictures Alex - I would say its a c1913 12HP, however I'm being a little canny here as the image I have shows a slightly different shaped inlet manifold hence the 'circa' 1913. That said I would reckon there's only a year in it either way. The down side is I'm having difficulty trying to place your engine number in the list I have as yours is the first 'IA' I've come across and I'm leaning towards Argyll started to use 'export' sequencing in their ID numbers late on in production, but this is a pure guess. Just for grins could you tell me does the radiator badge says Argyll or Tarrant - its a long-shot as I've never found anybody with a Tarrant, which are basically copies of Argyll cars?

Hi Terry - long time, no see! That's a fabulous bit of advertising, everybody focuses on Argyll's demise, but I'm focused on their extensive and world-wide advertising. May I make a copy of your bookmark image and 'place' it into our Argyll image archive crediting you as its owner of course?

Hi Alex, I'm at the museum this week and will put aside a couple of hours to get out my Argyll archive to confirm what I have here at home. I like to give the best information I can and the core of my research is there.

Hi Alex, Confirmed Argyll ID numbers are very limited, albeit well-meaning many being misread - the numbers give some information, however if you have an image of the engine that would help me enormously. S1 I believe to be the year of manufacture of the engine and a picture would help me tie down a possible date. 195 is the engine number and its original associated gearbox would have had the same, but with slightly different pre-fix to the engine, probably X1 195. With the death of Alex Govan in 1907 the company went through a dramatic re-organisation of its manufacturing processes and catalogue, part of that appears to have been a complete change in how they identified major component parts. For example, pre-Govan's death ID numbers I have located are all simple numeric series e.g. 12345, whereas afterwards they became 1F * S * 1***. May I ask, is it a complete car your enquiring about or major components you have as there are other numbers available on a complete vehicle which helps?

Hi Alex, I'm not an owner, however the Scottish transport museum I'm a researcher in has 8 Argyll cars in its collection. Is there anything specific you'd like to know and I'll try to help? Bob.

Could very well be a 1904 Argyll, but I'm leaning more towards a 1906/7. However as previously mentioned the picture is very pixelated when blown up, so I can't be certain and couldn't really fault the previous suggestion.

Thanks for sharing - excellent web site. I was really surprised to see a British Commer Camper Van - they were absolutely dreadful, under-powered even for the British market, handing like a drunk super tanker and a build quality that guaranteed something would fall off or break in a heart-beat.

This little truck is a Scammell Scarab - a three-wheeler that could turn on a Dime (a Sixpence in British money!) and the biggest operator of these tiny multi-tasking work-horses was British Railways in the 1950's / 60's, although other commercial users bought them as well such as this plastic model version manufactured by the Airfix company - Scammell Scarab Watney's Beer Truck.

Thank you so much for sharing Dave, I absolutely love streamliners and really appreciate you taking to time to post them. Obviously a personal preference, however they've got to be black & white photographs for me as colour just doesn't have the atmosphere or tone of the period - after all history is always 'black & white'.