Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Ben, The through bolt is a piece of all thread with a nut on each end. The plate the "half moons" are mounted is a 3/16 plate. The half moons are from Vintage Air. Modified to fit. The plate is mounted on the two front head bolts. Ben 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 All thread... of course! Thanks for the clarifications! I want to do AC at some point; grandpa doesn't like cruising with wing windows anymore even though he said it didn't bother him when he drove from Michigan over to here in 58. Lol. Looking forward to your final product! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 Tuesday evening, And front clip is BACK ON!! Too late for pictures. Dark caught me. Son-in-law came by and helped. Thanks, Michael. If life stays cool, hope, tomorrow, to get him ready to fire up on Thursday, Will see. Ben 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 I THINK all is ready. Just install battery and hit the switch. The AC condenser is in . Leaving the bumper/grill off for now. Will try to run AC hoses after engine proves OKAY. Fingers crossed!! Ben 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 I would like to say "he started right up" but can"t. Did start, just sounded like on 2 or 3 cylinders. Would not stay running. Timing too slow? If that is the case, I have to decide whether to move the distributor a tooth or move the wires one spot C W. If the distributor is turned CW as far as it will turn, he tries to start. Or may just be the lifters need to pump up? Rolled it into the garage where I can work on it even if the rain does come the next few days. Ben 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Success!!! Pulled the distributor and moved one gear tooth and he runs! I have a slight vacuum leak that has eluded me so far. I will prevail. Valve cover leaking at the back. Not sure why. The gasket surface seems to be flat. And have a noisy lifter or two. I readjusted the rocker arm/lifters per manual. Helped some. I will adjust the noisy one's when I have them isolated. Down the road in a day or two. I hope. Ben 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 You'll have to get us a video of it running! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Congrats! I too, would love to see a video! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 On 1/16/2017 at 6:23 PM, First Born said: Success!!! Pulled the distributor and moved one gear tooth and he runs! I have a slight vacuum leak that has eluded me so far. I will prevail. Valve cover leaking at the back. Not sure why. The gasket surface seems to be flat. And have a noisy lifter or two. I readjusted the rocker arm/lifters per manual. Helped some. I will adjust the noisy one's when I have them isolated. Down the road in a day or two. I hope. Ben What a snap! Hardly took any time at all, right? Congrats, sounds like your into a waymore fun stage now! Like 2 hear how that one sounds. You tube, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 Okay, made a video. It wants to stay in the phone camera!! Took George for a run today.Wow. Not a hot nailhead, but impressive. Did 10-15 miles. I would like to do more before really putting him to the test. I believe the heat on the intake did the job. Does not have the stumble when throttle is "opened". Time will tell. Looks like I will have to r&r some lifters. One or more are noisy. If I can isolate the offender(s). And the pesky vac leak!! I can hear the whistle at slight throttle opening, just have not located it. I have sprayed with starting fluid. Nothing. I suppose I have not sprayed the right place. My old ears, even with help, have trouble zeroing in on sounds sometimes. This is one. Overall, I am happy so far. Ben 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Drove about 50 miles today. If it wasn't for the noisy lifter, I would be a happy camper. Runs strong. hesitates a little taking off. I will address that soon. Followed Willies advice and checked plugs after drive. No soot. Thanks old tank. I will probably drive another hundred or so before checking the WOT performance. As soon as I can get my GREAT GRAND DAUGHTER to help, I will run more pictures and the video. Ben 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Ben, I've been battling a noisy lifter for as long as the engine has been rebuilt. Just one! Recently it was too cold for an oil change so I took the car up to a Jiffy Lube with a new filter in hand. I've been feeding it only conventional, but they dumped synthetic in there and now the noise is gone. Just food for thought. Still looking forward to that video! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdarrunt Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Ben, Had no idea you were doing a step by step on the Forum; in fact this was the first time I clicked on "Modified". Proud of you! Have sold several more of the HEI units like yours but mine is back to points because of laziness. Promised a completion date and when I dead butted it I pulled the one out of my 37 to meet the date. You have seen my Lazy Guy compressor bracket for a straight eight but since I'm also going with tie rod assist p/s I think I will go serpentine. The 235 Chevy is a very similar engine with two less cylinders and I have a mock up of a serpentine on one of them. A second option since I have 12v and an alternator is to use an electric/hydraulic pump like first used on early 90's Toyota MR2's but now used on a number of modern cars. This pump can be mounted anywhere and do away with bracket building on a crowded engine front. Why didn't you hold onto my super duper straight eight engine lift bar till you were finished? I see it on page one but then a chain on later shots. Having just a single chain hook up where the engine can be rolled/tilted/rocked would have made stabbing easier. Pic of serpentine mock up shows only 90 degrees of belt wrap on crank pulley but it hasn't been a problem. Final brackets are of heavier material for accessory and idler mounts. Don't even know what pulleys were used but you've see my storage sheds so I know you're a believer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Hey, Evan, long time no see. I even missed calling on our birthday. So a belated HAPPY BIRTHDAY, friend. I still have your lift bar. Forgot it when I brought the crank back. Also your block with rope handle. I tried the serpentine route, but did not perfect it. Yeah, your stash is impressive and helps a LOT. To say nothing of your skills . If you do get it perfected, I am interested. The double groove pulley on the water pump will work, but I do not like it. I am still fighting the noisy lifter problem. I have the rocker arm assembly off now. I guess next is pulling the lifters. Probably discover I did not keep them clean enough. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Ben, Noisy lifter fix = 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdarrunt Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Ben, The way I check hydraulic lifters that have been run and should be pumped up is to set them in a shallow can and barely cover with oil. I set this on the drill press table and use a push rod in the drill chuck to work plunger up and down on lifter. If it's hard as a rock it's good but if it moves it's bad. You can pop a bad one apart, clean and reassemble, place back in oil and pump up with drill press. If good it will get hard with no plunger movement.Saves on guess work. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 Thanks, Evan, I think they are all OK. I have the push rod cover off. The rocker arm assembly off. I have not checked them the way you said, but I cannot get any give out of them. I don't have a spare push rod, and I would hate to ruin one. May give it a try. The lifters are all free in the block. I followed the manual adjustment method. I will re assemble and adjust again tomorrow. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Ben, I just picked up on your cars name.. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 14 minutes ago, pont35cpe said: Ben, I just picked up on your cars name.. Tom Yeah, Tom, if one goes back to the original thread when I was refurbishing it, I mentioned the reason for George. My Dad was a dyed in the wool Buick man. So, in his honor, it became George. I think of him every time the Buick comes into sight. I think I have reworked a lifter or two that will be good. Been busy this week. Hopefully next week will see me getting him in shape. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 Today was a GOOD day to live in N Texas. 70 degrees. I installed the reworked rebuilt lifter. I tested it per Evan Ritters method. I THINK it fixed the problem. The heavy ticcing is gone. Idled for 20 min or so. still a tiny sound. Hopefully take George out tomorrow or the next day. Ben 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 Well, obviously did not make the next day. Two weeks! I have done some tinkering. Made some decisions, temporarily at least. The AC is on hold. The two groove water pump pulley that I was using to drive the compressor just did not work out. I COULD NOT get it to run true. Wobble , wobble . Up and down. I could feel it on the engine. Just made wrong, had to use two different spacers. Too much. I will locate a better one, but for now, no go. So, with every thing together except the hood,we set out for a test. And what a test! A mile from the house, water was spraying on the windshield. Now who in the world did not tighten the radiator hose.? And who would go on a TEST drive with NO TOOLS? Fortunately, HF was just off the next exit, 1/2 mile away and they sell screw drivers. Tightened that sucker up, and away we went. George runs like a sewing machine. Better with each mile. Totaled about 120 miles today. Some freeway, up to 80 mph, and some two lane. Still pulling hard at 80. Still pulling hard at about 65 mph in 2nd @ 4500 rpm. I chickened out at 4500. 40 mph, in 3rd, to 60 mph in 10 seconds. 60 to 80 the same, 10 seconds. I do not know if this is good or not. Remember the 1/4 mile test I did before pulling the 248? 60 mph in 23 seconds? Today, 74 mph in 20 . And I DO NOT get good shifts. Pretty sloppy, in fact. I am satisfied for now. Still a little lifter rattle, so shopping for some GOOD lifters. I do have a line on some. Later on, I will try to do a post including the mods and what not , all in one. Way over budget. Learned a few things. Most important was that I did not know as much as I thought I did. Surprise, surprise. Ben 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 On 2/18/2017 at 9:01 PM, First Born said: Now who in the world did not tighten the radiator hose.? And who would go on a TEST drive with NO TOOLS? LMAO... This whole thread is so awesome! YOU DA MAN BEN!!! freaking great job!!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 So the lifters I gave you are no good ?? Wouldn't surprise me but sorry you had to find out too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 Bill, just noticed your post. I don't KNOW it is the lifters at fault. I just know they get noisy after running awhile. Larry Schramm gave some ideas and guide lines to me yesterday. Stay tuned. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Well, on the lifter situation, I have ordered a full set of replacement from Kanter. Will see if that is the problem. Pricey. Especially if that is not the "fix". On a lighter, sorta, note, Gary from S.B. sold a '50 Roadmaster radiator to me. Larry Schramm transported it to Chickasha. The radiator shop, an old school one, called today and said come get it. Tanks were removed and core rodded out. He says it was pretty full of scale but will be good to go. About 15 percent more surface area and an extra row of tubes. Probably cannot overheat if I tried. It will be installed when I finish with the AC. Later Ben 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Ben, just wondering how the lifter situation is coming along. Sorry to have missed you at Chickasha.. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 hour ago, pont35cpe said: Ben, just wondering how the lifter situation is coming along. Sorry to have missed you at Chickasha.. Tom STILL NOISY! Family obligations have precluded much work lately. Will soon replace the new heavier valve springs with the original. See what that does. Sorry we missed, too. Every time I attend any thing like that, I promise myself I will meet so and so. Never have made it 100%. Thanks for being interested Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted April 29, 2017 Author Share Posted April 29, 2017 FINALLY! A little progress. A week and a half ago I was planning to change the valve springs for the original. Larry Schramm had said " look at the changes made" or words to that effect. Nothing else changed should have had any effect on the lifters. A little schooling for those who have NOT worked on the straight eight. My understanding of most if not all V8 engines is that the lifters are supplied with full oil pressure and then oil flows up to the overhead. Not so on the straight eight. A side stream, via a 1/8th inch pipe, from the oil galley flows to the top front right corner of the head. Through the filter if so equipped. A 1/4th inch horizontal passage in to the head intersects with another , vertical, passage that exits underneath the valve/rocker arm cover. Into this passage is a fitting with a REDUCED opening! A 1/8th inch pipe from this reducer supplies oil to the rocker arm shaft. Oil then travels through the rocker arm to the push rod and then down to the lifter. Very little pressure? I think! All of that to say, I/we think the new valve springs are to strong, thereby forcing oil from the lifters that were not designed for such pressure. So why have I not just changed the springs? THE PARTS WILL NOT MATCH. Valve keepers are different. The original will not work on the new valves. The new retainers, into which the keepers fit, will not take the original keepers. GRRR. The new retainers will not fit into the original inner spring. NO MIX AND MATCH! Not insurmountable, just a chore. Eventually. So after talking with Tom Telesco in MA and Dema Elgin, the cam grinder, I changed the oil. It was ready for the first change at over 400 miles. The suggestion from one was to add Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Both suggested heavier oil. SO 20W-50 and Lucas. And it worked. Lifters , if not silent, almost are. I drove about 30 miles and still quite. So this will suffice until we figure how to make the original springs work. Dema and Tom said using manual lifters will work. Dema checked the grind profile and OK to use manual. Just use a lot less lash. This would entail a set of manual lifters and longer push rods. Maybe in the future. Now to put some miles on the rascal. Ben 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I think the oil stabilizer is also a viscosity improver (i.e., raises the number), so the end result might be "more" than 20W50 itself. Wondering what might happen if you increased the hole size in the adapter for a little more flow? In all respects, glad things are quiet now! NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Ben, a smaller hole would increase pressure, not decrease it. Pressure is force/area, so if the force of the oil is constant, as supplied by the pump, and neglecting surface tension in the oil galleys, then reducing the cross sectional area of the galley will increase the pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Picking up on what Beemon said and the positive result of the higher viscosity oil, I wonder whether a little more oil pressure would be advisable. Is there a way to shim, swap springs, or otherwise adjust the oil pump to raise the pressure a few psi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted April 29, 2017 Author Share Posted April 29, 2017 Willis, I have done that and did not help. Only result was/is more volume to the rocker arm and valve . Beemon, there you go again ! Perhaps my explanation was not clear. Downstream of the fitting [smaller hole] ,the pressure has decreased. As well as the volume. Buick intended this to reduce the oil to the valve tip in order to reduce the amount running down the valve guide. Per the Shop Manual. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 On 4/28/2017 at 8:37 PM, Ben Bruce aka First Born said: A little schooling for those who have NOT worked on the straight eight. My understanding of most if not all V8 engines is that the lifters are supplied with full oil pressure and then oil flows up to the overhead. Not so on the straight eight. A side stream, via a 1/8th inch pipe, from the oil galley flows to the top front right corner of the head. Through the filter if so equipped. A 1/4th inch horizontal passage in to the head intersects with another , vertical, passage that exits underneath the valve/rocker arm cover. Into this passage is a fitting with a REDUCED opening! A 1/8th inch pipe from this reducer supplies oil to the rocker arm shaft. Oil then travels through the rocker arm to the push rod and then down to the lifter. Very little pressure? I think! I began reading the manual on the Hometown Buick site because I wondered if changing your engine to full filtration is resulting in less volume of oil being available to the head when the filter is now supplying the crankcase along with the head? Reading about this oil route in the 1950 service manual on the Hometown Buick site, I saw the next passage and wonder if there is something amiss in the manual? Note, in the 2nd paragraph, first line, It seems to say that in later series 40 engines, the oil does NOT flow into the pushrod. If that is so, where does the hydraulic lifter get it's oil supply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, JohnD1956 said: I began reading the manual on the Hometown Buick site because I wondered if changing your engine to full filtration is resulting in less volume of oil being available to the head when the filter is now supplying the crankcase along with the head? Reading about this oil route in the 1950 service manual on the Hometown Buick site, I saw the next passage and wonder if there is something amiss in the manual? Note, in the 2nd paragraph, first line, It seems to say that in later series 40 engines, the oil does NOT flow into the pushrod. If that is so, where does the hydraulic lifter get it's oil supply? John, on the 2nd page of this thread, post 43 one can see the oil galley and the bypass "holes". The oil comes out of the pump , through the full flow filter and into the Galley right where it did originally. The crank and all the bearings are supplied from this galley. See those small holes? There are 2 or 3 more , and these are where the passages to the main bearings were drilled. They have plugs in them at assembly. Except for the one beneath the "F". That is where the line supplying the overhead attaches. On most cars by the '50s a filter was in line before the overhead. That description of the change for 2nd series is referring to manual transmission cars. I think it is simply that the lifters have more clearance than the ones the springs are made for. Therefore the extra spring pressure forces the oil out of the lifter and the oil pressure is not sufficient to the task. Ben Edited May 1, 2017 by Ben Bruce aka First Born (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted May 26, 2017 Author Share Posted May 26, 2017 Well, folks, I have procrastinated. After advice from Tom Telesco and Dema Elgin, I have changed to heavier oil. Seems to have done the job. I have driven about a hundred miles or so and they are quiet! I will probably change out the valve springs sooner or later when all the "parts" are sorted. Now just have to find someone local that can tune the obd1 system. Needs to be tuned for the changes, as it is running a little lean. But RUNS! Ben 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Glad to hear of your progress! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 You sure the VISOR isn't a tad loose, making the clicking sound, MAYBE, maybe not. Got to love kidding my friend Ben, Dale in Indy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-car-guy Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 57 minutes ago, smithbrother said: You sure the VISOR isn't a tad loose, making the clicking sound, MAYBE, maybe not. Got to love kidding my friend Ben, Dale in Indy Welcome back Dale, I was wondering with the lack of visor jokes 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Ben, still waiting on that video! Glad it's back on the road now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted May 27, 2017 Author Share Posted May 27, 2017 8 hours ago, smithbrother said: You sure the VISOR isn't a tad loose, making the clicking sound, MAYBE, maybe not. Got to love kidding my friend Ben, Dale in Indy Love you too, friend. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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