Local Shows & Stock Vehicles

[nearchoclatetown]

Wait a second! Ron's original statement was that he sees a growing number of modified cars at local shows and a lack of original cars being driven. His question was whether others see the same trend. This is not a debate over car ID or whether anyone likes what someone else has done to their car or if they have the right to let them sit in the garage for decades. Answer the question!!!

[Ron Green]

Jmarsicro, I am going to try and make the Gettysburg Region show and I will keep you posted. I have a flyer on it somewhere.

Dave, This Buick started out as a 2-door however I know of a few rag tops that are no longer with us as they should look.

nearchoclatetown, We are straying somewhat and I guess with this subject its expected. But you are right regarding the question. Are others seeing less stock vehicles at the local level then the ones that are modified? Have you noticed any differences in the percentages the past few years?

[michel88]

The modifications to the very rare '53 Skylark are no improvement in my opinion. I agree with Dave@Moon that this car should be considered a Full Classic. They only produced 1,690 of these cars and now another one is lost! This is scary that we are seeing so many pro-street rod people on the AACA web site. I guess it's only a matter of time until someone decides to improve the styling of a '56 or '57 Continental Mark II by chopping the top.

Woody Michel

[Ron Green]

michel88, I found this Buick (started life as a 2-door) on Ebay and only posted it as a example of the trend (in my opinion) that I see at the local level. The area I live in probably has more antique vehicles then most in the USA and I was alarmed from the show I attended last week.

I visited a friend of mine that has been in the restoration business for 40 years last week and he has 8 employees and a 2 year backlog. Ninety eight percent of their work is stock and they have done numerous AACA national award winners along with various Concours winners. They work for people that have the dollars (not me unless its on the side) and they currently have a 59 Buick Electra 2-door and a 53 Buick Skylark convertible that are undergoing frame offs and will be modified a lot. So possibly the trend is reaching further then just the average Joe in his garage.

From re-reading this thread I don't get the impression that those who posted are hotrod people. I for one like you love them stock and turn off the TV shows that chop and gut beautiful vehicles.

This has turned out to be a interesting thread and if this trend is starting in this area it must be the same or worse in other states?

[Guest]

To answer the subject question I attend a few shows every year in northern Minnesota as well as our local shows in northwestern Ontario. The trend is definitely towards modified cars. the 60's muscle car and Corvettes owners seem focused on originality almost to a fault in some cases but with the ealy 50's to 30's cars most are now modified, sadly in my opinion.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Answer the question!!! </div></div>

How many yes's do you need?

Ron,

That car has (essenially unattainable) complete Skylark side trim, open/round Skylark wheel well fenders (front & rear), and "Darrin dip" doors & upper rear quarters off of a Skylark (none of which fit the standard 1953 A- or C- body Buick). If this isn't an original Skylark that's been butchered then it's a good Skylark body that's been applied to another frame (whatever the guy <span style="font-style: italic">said</span> he did). Like many (but not all) hot rodders I've met this person would likely describe the XP-300 and the original (1951) LeSabre as "an old 2-door Buick" as well.

It's <span style="font-style: italic">still</span> getting worse.

[Dave@Moon]

I rarely believe what a hotrodder tells me he did.

I just looked up the "a 1953 Buick Riviera 2 Door Hardtop" Ron found on eBay. One picture tells it all (especially at the right-hand margin).

p.s. Try real hard and guess what he used for an engine! Go ahead, take all three seconds to think about!

[Guest]

yes dave, a "Retro-rod", coverted coup..... not as painful.

i've seen a lot of those 65 buick riv's with a "grafted" '50's front clip on , and painted purple. The windsheild always look wrong.

Below is a dude who took a '50 buick two door with 23k on it and is in the process of destorying it.

Below is the latest chapter:

As many of you know, I'm building my '50 Super Fastback into a

traditional Kustom. Unlike most other modified '50s, I'm keeping the

original 263 S-8.

We've begun work in earnest and have overbored the block to produce

283ci. We'll be using custom Ross pistons made to our specs and

keeping the stock connecting rods. Power predictions are in the 225hp

range, up from 124 hp stock.

The head has been milled down .100-inch to increase compression ratio

from 7.2:1 to 9:1 with the new piston. The head has been ported and

the chambers cleaned up to increase flow velocity and volume while

increasing chamber efficiency. A camshaft will be acquired from Chris

Nielson Cams of Utah (801) 451-7745.

I'll be using a Bendtsens Transmission adapter

www.transmissionadapters.com to mate a 700R4 overdrive automatic

behind the 283.

The engine will be fed by a pair of Screaming Eagle (Holley) 275cfm

carbs originally designed for use on Harley Davidson motorcycle

engines. Their combined cfm of 550 cfm should be perfect for this

engine. We are fabricating an intake manifold using the Harley

intakes to feed into a fabricated flange to mate with the siamesed

intake ports, and the two smaller intake sections will be joined with

a length of tubing to equalize manifold pressure.

I'm hoping to get a header too, but I've not secured a solid deal on

that as yet. Once I get a commitment, I'll share. I'd prefer to work

with someone who can offer such a part to anyone once mine is

complete.

All my engine work is being done at Pro Machine of Placentia, CA. The

man there is John Beck (World Record Holder at Bonneville) and if

you're considering a modern upgrade as part of your S-8 248/263

rebuild, I cannot recommend him enough. Now that we've completed the

research and are actually building the engine, John knows what these

engines want and where to get it. He can be reached at (714) 777-

1324.

[rocketraider]

Looking at the mods listed, I can see where the Darrin dip came from (57 Chevy), the rear wheel openings (stretched and radiused), and the side trim (56 Buick dipped very low in front of the RWO, similar to the Skylark).

It's what used to be called a full radical custom. Personally I think the guy had too much money and imagination, but I also have to look at it from the standpoint of craftsmanship and that most early luxury cars and full classics were custom bodied.

And if you remember, the Skylark itself was a "factory custom".

Locally, most vehicles are still restored to stock. The modified classes are essentially the province of Tri-5 Chevys and Camaros. Once in a while you'll see a car that is bone stock with exception of custom wheels or maybe a little underhood chrome. Radically modified cars like this aren't common here- maybe 3% of the showfield, tops, and most streetrods are glass-bodied and aftermarket frames/suspension.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Looking at the mods listed, I can see where the Darrin dip came from (57 Chevy), the rear wheel openings (stretched and radiused), and the side trim (56 Buick dipped very low in front of the RWO, similar to the Skylark). </div></div>

I agree that the mods as listed add up to what is seen in the photos if this was a Riviera hardtop to begin with. I can only imagine what it must've been like to try to match '57 Chevy door uppers with the curves of a '53 Buick, but I suppose it's possible.

I've posted this car on the Buick side to see if there's anyone there who can tell if an authentic body was used or not. Suffice as to say that the resemblence (if it is a grafting of parts together) is uncanny. Even the smallest details among those that still remain from the stock form and/or were recreated (i.e. where the "dip" is on the rear uppers, the length arc of the curved trim, etc.) are not conclusive. And I suppose anyone going to this expense would've thought nothing of spending the giga-dollars needed for the 3 genuine Skylark trim items that are identifiable.

Hope nobody needed 'em.

[Ron Green]

I'm off to Buffalo for the GN and won't see any modified vehicles there. This thread will probably fade off into the sunset soon however lets post some observations from what you are seeing this summer at the larger local shows throughout the country. So far I'm thinking that stock seems to becoming the minority?

[Dave@Moon]

The Goodguys National was in nearby Columbus last weekend. Approximately 7000 street rods attended. I saw about 1/4 of 'em driving I-70 and I-71. One could only wonder how many of their aficionados couldn't make it to Ohio that weekend.

You don't need to look at local shows anymore to see this trend.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

I see lots of newer & modified too...

Just for perspective, when the AACA was chartered back in 1935, what kinds of cars were seen at shows? Horseless Carriages and some Brass-Era stuff...

When was the last time anybody saw something fitting THAT description at a local show? I would offer the suggestion that the most hobbyists interest in old cars goes back to what they saw and experienced during their childhood...so lets say that's anywhere from 20 to 60-70 years back from the present day...that's puts us between 1984 & 1924...

Thirty-something guys like me who are fascinated by pre-WWII cars (let alone Jazz-Age or earlier cars) are probably in the minority of that fan-base.

Most present day enthusiasts can't (or won't) cope with mechanical brakes, non-synchronized trannies, points ignitions, lack of A/C, etc...

Plus the driving restrictions that come with an Antique plate...

Most of these 21st Century "hot-rod Johnnies" are just boltin' on what they can get from the local Auto-Zone or other chain "speed-shop"...there's little individual craftmanship or creativity involved like there was in the early days of the "California Hot rod", when each guy pretty much made his own stuff...( and "modified cars" had little resale value, so these "soupers" did a lot of bolt-on work so that they could put a car back stock and get some re-sale $ out of it (as well as keep their toys for the next project)...

But most of these modern folk don't have enough experience or interest in cars to understand from whence we came...

A 1941 De Soto (or other Chrysler product) certainly won't impress anyone in a drag race, but it was a very well-engineered car for its day, and the fact that I'm still driving an UNRESTORED example, I think is pretty impressive in its own right...(I don't baby it either...)

What really gets my goat are the "kids" who get a 1930's or '40s car, then get on our forum discussion boards, and the very first thing they want to know is "what can I drop in for power? Where can I get a disc brake conversion kit? "etc."

My first response is: "Why don't you slow down and get to know your car for what it is, the way the factory built it, first? You might just find that you like it stock!"

Well...this is becoming a rambling rant...sorry!

I would like to see more ANTIQUES at local shows...so, guys with stuff in mothballs...please bring 'em out once in a while...just so the "kids" can grab a look at the "Real Thing"...

I used to feel "guilty" about bringing my shabby '41 onto a show field; I find I'm getting over that...most of the time, I have the ONLY De Soto at a given show; my car is driven there under its own power; yes, I know it needs TLC and has many flaws, and I will attend to them as time & money permit; but it's still going after 63 years...so if that offends the "Trailer Queen" crowd, my apologies...I'm not there for a trophy (yet- )...just to see the cars, and let others see mine...in all of its rusty tenaciousness...

10 years ago, I was getting pretty tired of the plethora of carbon=copy '55-'57 Chevies at shows...now I find myself equally weary of the dearth of "carbon-copy" "street-rods" with small-block GM crate engines under the hood, regardless of what badge is on the grille...

Gimme a stock Hupmobile over a 'rod any day !

!

[R W Burgess]

Dave, I'll tell you a little secret. I've been to Columbus, York, Pa., Charlotte, NC, and many other local shows that consisted of mostly rods and customs. Occasionally, I'll see something I haven't seen before at these shows, but mostly I see the same cars year after year. Some have undergone changes from the year before, for the better, I might add. These cars continally go through changes in their lifetime, to the point where they don't even look like the original car. And, that's good, I guess for rods. Where am I going......oh, the point I'm trying to make is the people and the happening around these shows. It's almost a carnaval atmosphere. There are lots of parts, toy, and complete car vendors there. And a very important part, to me anyway, is the entertainment every evening. I've seen some of the best non-professional bands at these shows. They never seem to disappoint me. Even at York this year with evening showers each night, we were indoors enjoying the music and company of your family. Hard to beat that, I guess. Sorry to ramble, but I'm becoming a music nut. You should hear me sing,ummm....maybe not. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[Guest Randy Berger]

Frank, I always enjoy your posts. I take my 56 Packard to the local cruise

and hang up a "blurb" sheet describing the car and how it was restored.

I'm always surprised by questions like "Whose motor is that?" "Whose tranny are you running?" "Who made Packard?" The point is they leave impressed and maybe they now appreciate a restored vehicle as well as a rod.

When the rods leave, they all have to rev up their engines and let their pipes make a large racket, sort of like "Hey Ma, looka me!". Everyone notices when I leave because I have to blink my lights to let them know I'm on the move. One of the things I admire about the British is their sense of understatement.

One of the regulars normally drives a 56 Plymouth convertible but last week he showed up with a 1936 Chrysler that had the vent wing roll up and down with the regular window. Always feels good to learn something.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[ex98thdrill]

Speaking of big car shows. For the street rod lovers, there is a big street rod show at the New York State fairgrounds that starts today and runs this weekend through Sunday. If you're going to or from Buffalo by way of the Thruway, you might want to stop there too.

[ted sweet]

The syracuse show is for anything 1988 or older

[kuhner]

Have to point out something in and earlier post. Technically a "Street Rod" is a modified vehicle 1948 or before. At street rod shows only pre 48 vehicles are allowed to participate. I think the rest of them would fall under the street machine or hot rod category. From what I've been told thats really how-why the GoodGuys events came about.

[Azbluewhale]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm off to Buffalo for the GN and won't see any modified vehicles there. This thread will probably fade off into the sunset soon however lets post some observations from what you are seeing this summer at the larger local shows throughout the country. So far I'm thinking that stock seems to becoming the minority? </div></div>

Here in Tucson, AZ, we have bi-monthly cruise nights at a local 50's diner. There is usually quite a mix of everything from pre-war to ricers (unless there's a street rod show in town that weekend). One of my favorite shows is Midnight at the Oasis in Yuma in early March. It's an open show limited to 850 cars and although street rods predominate, there are still a lot of stock and restored-to-stock 40's, 50's and 60's cars and trucks.

I take my wagon to as many shows as I can. Sometimes, I can even pick up a trophy just because there's nobody else in my class!

[ex98thdrill]

I could care less about the age of the vehicle or a definition. I'm only announcing the show for those that might want to look. I'll be in Buffalo for the AGNM, so this isn't a matter of me bringing up the street rod debate again. I've now told you about the show. If you want to go, go, if not, don't. The comments either pro or con towards street rods aren't needed, but if you got some spare time and want to see something else either on your way to or from the AGNM, here is something to do.

If someone wants something else to do while in the Buffalo area, there is also an Air Show at the Rochester International Airport which is about 85 miles east of Buffalo.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

Randy...

Thanks for your kind words...it's a little scary to think that some of these modern day "gear heads" got all their ideas & "knowledge" from the Tee-Vee or from movies like "Duh Fast and duh Furious"....(yo, yo...)

Dad tells everybody that I'm "37 going on 80"...

In any case, I'm personally much more interested in seeing old, stock iron, in any condition, than I am somebody's "Credit-card Hoopty"....

While I can appreciate some of the skills and craftsmanship involved in performing some of these "upgrades", I also wish they were applied towards preservation ends...especially towards the preservation of my De Soto...

If somebody wants to get my "wow" for their metal working skills, let 'em fab a floor for my De Soto...anybody with a saw-z-all or a torch can make a car shorter...

(Oops...I'm foaming at the mouth again ! Time for the meds... )

As I said before, lets get those REAL antiques out to the shows!

Don't let the hop-up crowd take-over !

[Guest tin knocker]

Frank, your statement that you would rather see old stock iron in any condition brought back some thoughts from a recent trip. You phrased my thoughts precisely. I have visited The museums at Imperial Palace and Harrahs as well as some others. I thought the cars on display were nice. On the way home I spent the night at a motel in Murdo, South Dakota. Next to the motel was an old car museum.

The museum has several buildings with displays of items from early farm life and several metal buildings which contained a large number of old cars in the condition in which they were acquired. Most were from the teens and twenties. There was a variety of makes displayed, some of which I had not heard. They appeared just as they were when the owner had parked them for the last time. Since I got there late I wandered through until they chased me out and locked up. It was much more interesting than looking at rods and over restored cars. They actually conveyed a sense of history.

I know others have visited it and I wonder if they enjoyed as much as I did. I would sure like to see some like that at local shows. As it is they hold little interest for me since I grew up with the cars on display and I feel like I am walking through a used car lot rather than a car show.

Rollie

[Guest]

tin knocker, I have been to the little museum in Murdo and agree with what you say so I guess I am a kindred spirit. The finest experiences I have had in my old car interest have been when I find an old car decaying in the woods (or bush as we say here). I know a place where old cars were parked many years ago and I get more amusement and a sense of nostalgia strolling among these rusting hulks than I ever have at a car show. You just can't beat original!

[Guest leadfoot]

Out here in western Maryland there is a an active calendar of local weekly cruise-ins and frequent small "shows". Seems that there are a lot more rod guys (and gals) compared to us 'tiquers.

The local shows I've attended have a mix of antiques and street-hot-modified rods. But even in metro DC, this has been going on for about ten years. I remember local shows put on by AACA regions with a classes for rods of various sorts.

Hey nearchocolatetown, JBed might even enjoy the rod culture around here! Or he might just get on his soapbox and try to "save the cars".

[Pierce66]

Sometimes I almost wish we could go back to the "good old days", when our old cars were worthless, and we were looked upon as nuts for bothering with them. Yes, there was a small emerging hot rod crowd, and the HCCA was already holding small tours. But generally, those who owned old cars could get together, and enjoy them for what they were. One cant help admiring the quality of some of the so called "customs". But I dont know whether to laugh or cry when some guy points to his beautifully done car, and says "how do you like my '32 whatever"...when he is the first to admit that virtually NO part of his beautifully crafted machine was EVER on a REAL old car.

When we are young, we know all the answers. As we mature..we know we dont know the answers...but at least we know the questions. At my age, I am not sure I evern know how to frame the questions !

The world has changed from the days a bunch of car buffs with old cars would get out on the roads of our day ( 1950's) and drive to some fun place for a meet. Even the biggest and fastest of the cars from the 20's and 30's are in the way on modern Interstates, and, even with high-speed rear axles, when you GET to someplace...crowds, no place to park, etc.

I dont know what the answer is - again, I no longer feel competent to even ask the questions !

I share the mixed emotions of you guys when we arrive at a present day "Classic And Antique Car Show"...and see row after row of "mouse powered" (hot-rodder's name for the so called "small block Chevrolet motor) custom cars that, as I noted above, rarely have much to do with REAL old cars, other than their external physical outlines.

? ? ? ?

A puzzled "woof" from Cal Worthington's DOG SPOT

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The world has changed from the days a bunch of car buffs with old cars would get out on the roads of our day ( 1950's) and drive to some fun place for a meet. Even the biggest and fastest of the cars from the 20's and 30's are in the way on modern Interstates, and, even with high-speed rear axles, when you GET to someplace...crowds, no place to park, etc. </div></div>

It hasn't changed. We did.

The roads those 20's and 30's cars rode on are still there. Why bother trying the interstates? Why do you need to "GET to someplace"? What's the point of a destination when the trip there is the interesting part?

<span style="font-style: italic">LOCAL</span>, small-scale touring is the answer. Riding around at 45 mph on State Route XXX for 2 or 4 hours every month or so is what we can enjoy more than any other enthusiast group. The diners are still there for lunch (even a few with car hops), the state parks still have picnic groves, the covered bridges are still pretty, the fall leaves still turn, and in many areas there's still a <span style="font-style: italic">Starlite Drive In</span> to visit.

The fact that people <span style="font-style: italic">live</span> on those roads (instead of sleep-drive to the next town on them like they do on I-whatever), and will <span style="font-style: italic">see</span> us enjoying our cars is what will get us through (what I see as) this crisis. You can't want what's behind a locked storage door, or hidden in a secured trailer. You see 15 Studebakers rumbling down your hill just once, you might want one someday.

Or we can all leave our cars to <span style="font-style: italic">SpikeTV</span> and <span style="font-style: italic">The Learning Channel</span>.

[Pierce66]

Dave - couldnt agree with you more ! Trouble is, so many of us live in big cities, where you have many many miles of congested Interstates to get thru, before you get to an area that is pleasant for old cars.

I have always advocated that the cub movement try and plan as many events as possible on just the kind of roads you discussed. Wish more people would listen to us, and DRIVE their cars in such situations.

Double WOOF !

[Pierce66]

oops..typo error...in my above "post"..I meant to type CLUB movement...(not "cub" movement )....!

[nearchoclatetown]

Dave@Moon, this is going to hurt so let me qualify this. Your post of 7-17-04 2:14 No. 233319, this is painful but, I AGGREE. I guess I can justify it by saying "You are RIGHT"

[R W Burgess]

Re, <span style="font-weight: bold">"You are Right!"</span> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> What!?

Are you defecting on me Choc? You're agreeing? Ok, yea, you're right. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You too, Moonman. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Our AACA Region has an annual Autumn Tour every year driving over roads I'd just as soon bypass any other time of the year in my modern vehicles. Those old cars aren't worth a darn parked in a shed or garage somewhere. Ummm, I hope Howard isn't reading this! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[1937hd45]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Those old cars aren't worth a darn parked in a shed or garage somewhere. Wayne </div></div>

Wayne, Please point me in the direction of this barn/shed with the free 1932 Fords!

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Trouble is, so many of us live in big cities, where you have many many miles of congested Interstates to get thru, before you get to an area that is pleasant for old cars. </div></div>

Both of my cars are well capable in modern traffic (or will be when they're done). But I must say that I've long wanted a number of brass era & pre-war cars that'd also be a problem in busy traffic. All I can say is that if I ever am lucky enough to attain that status, I'd be planning my weekends around the problems of getting the one of the cars to areas where I could enjoy it. Tours that start at 7:00AM, the first leg on a trailer out of town, would be a better day than I currently have available to enjoy.

[poci1957]

I am glad Ron started this post, I think of this subject often and consider abandoning the hobby because I just dislike this trend so much and see little relief in sight. I live in central Illinois, an area that has lots of amateur "car people". The modified trend is heavy here, and the quality of cars has slipped for years. I go to Hershey and had thought central PA was my refuge from this, but it seems it is a problem there too. I think the TV shows and magazines contribute, and I think peer pressure is a problem in that if a guys buddies all like street rods and that is all he sees then that is what he wants.

In this vein, the biggest current problem is that no one values history or authenticity enough to go to the trouble. It is hard to find oddball parts and expensive to chase authenticity, and you can get the car on the road for less time and money if you skip those steps. That is why I am in the AACA--I am into historic and authentic and I want to interact with people who value these traits. I do not want to deal with those who don't, and they have plenty of other venues for their cars. I think the writer who suggested we drive our authentic old cars as often as possible is right, we need to make authenticity interesting and attractive to other enthusiasts and show them our side. The writer who said the flood of rods will increase the value of authentic cars is probably wrong, remember, the value is what buyers with money will pay for your car. If buyers are not interested in your authentic car then it is not valuable, is it? If we want to protect that value and protect history and authenticity we must favorably interest enthusiasts that are turning the other way. I am interested in ideas on how to do that.

[poci1957]

As a P.S., my interest is 1957 Pontiacs and I am the POCI Tech Advisor for that car. Far more people contact me about modifying than restoring, most want to cut the front off the frame and weld on a Trans Am subframe so they can use a later drivetrain, ball joints and disc brakes. Many are inexperienced in cars and must get these ideas from others, often they want to do this because they think they can do it cheap. Twenty years ago cars would deteriorate in storage while a stubborn owner planned to "restore them some day". Now that car will have the front end cut off and the roof chopped before it is put in storage. I cringe thinking how many 1950's Pontiacs and other cars are being destroyed this way.

[nearchoclatetown]

Wayne, don't think I've lost my complete mind yet, but Dave is right the cars need to be used. I was at a show in Campbelltown Pa.[tornado on thurs.] yesterday and tried to count OG vs modified. There were only 3 of us with pre-30 cars but I'd guess about 30-40 percent of about 125-150 cars were stock. I don't consider custom wheels as a modification. A GN winning '60 Pontiac, 3 perfectly restored Mopars, and a very rare L-89 Camaro. There were cars with everything from brushed on paint to ultra custom. If cars are hidden from view, maybe the history will be lost, because we all know you could special order SBC engines in any car. BTW, since Bob claimed the '32 that sits all the time I'll take the Corvette that sits all the time.

[R W Burgess]

You're right Choc! I don't drive it(pictured) enough. I plan to make a trip with the Vette to Northern Virginia within the next couple of weeks to check on Bob(Ironman) Ruckman. I've give 'Ol Bob a spin around the block if he's up to it. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Wayne

[1937hd45]

That is a nice car Wayne, for some reason I thought you had a later model.

[jaxops]

Like you really needed more input on this subject, but here we go anyway:

I really like the local parking lot car corrals. They bring in a lot of different cars and different people from many other clubs and non-affiliated people. They tend to be free or very low cost for parking, usually have music or give aways, etc and you can stay as long as you want to or leave when you're tired out.

As for local shows, two shows that are strictly for fun are my favorites: the

Khedive Show in August supports crippled children and again, brings in a lot of varied car types and people. It is a huge show and is also a lot fun. The other show is the Tidewater Trans Am Club Annual Show. It is funny that this is so good, but it's because they really appreciate having the mix of older and more stock cars to round their show out.

As stated in earlier posts, it is just plain fun to show the car to the public. So many people haven't seen a very old car up close.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

I just want to (try) clarify some of my previous remarks...

It is kind of neat to see old stockers "Being taken back by nature"...

But, trailer queen or not, ulitmately my preference is to see stock cars fixed-up and preserved (whether that means a $30k - $100k+ resto, or just Jalopy-Joe in his back-alley gargage trying to slow-down the inevitable march of time vs. his "survivor" '41 De Soto )...

I like the idea of the "local "WPA-road mini-tours"...I think it was such an event that crossed my path (literally) on a sunny September Saturday baout two years ago...I was headed out of Scranton to I-81, on my way to Wilkes-Barre.

I was at the traffic light where I -81 crosses PA Rte 307 (near Chick's Diner), when much to my surpise, along came a caravan of brass-era cars: several Model T's, and a coffin-nosed Stanley...all out running, driving...!

That's the very best thing of all: seeing antiques out of the road!

And, I was at the AACA Scranton show yesterday with the '41 De Soto; in spite of persisent rain...I can't blame the trailer-queens for staying away because of the falling wweather...

But there were about 75 cars there with their dedicated owners...some of the old iron present included a '30 Graham sedan, several Model As, including a roadster and a phaeton; a '32 Plymouth sedan, a '38 Buick Century coupe (nice!),

my '41 De Soto, a '47 Chrysler Windsor, 1950 & '53 Pontiacs, 1950 Chevy Styleline, a '54 Mercury; two '56 Chrysler Windsors - one a "survivor" four-dr sedan, the other a nice blue & white station wagon; and other cars from the late '50s through early '70s...

One of the nicer touches was an assemblage of antique fire engines:

1930 Mack, 1936 GMC, two 1940's Ward-La Frances, a snub-nosed American La France, a '49 GMC, and a '56 Chevy ...

Kudos to the die-hards who came out!

Let's hope for better weather !