Something definitely different for me. A 1979 Triumph Spitfire!

[chistech]

I was approached by an employee at one of my packaging customers about restoring a car for him. His boss, the gentleman in the company whom I deal with, had told him part of my business is restoring antique cars and he should speak with me. After our initial talk, I decided I would attempt the work and he decided he wanted me to do it. The owner has a budget so it’s not going to be a full frame off restoration. I will be concentrating first on all the mechanics and replacing the very poor interior. While there is no rot, just some surface rust areas, the car doesn’t run and has been off the road for 14 years. 
 

I picked the car up last Friday and got it in my Garage on Sunday. I had to use dollies on the rear axle as both brakes were stuck but luckily the front was free. Got the car up on my two post lift and immediately realized just how small a car it is. Its wheelbase was barely enough to allow the arms to pivot under. Once on the lift I got each wheel off and each, medium size soup bowl brake drums off! Compared to the other cars I work on along with my dually and other trucks, this thing is enjoyable to not be having to strain to move anything! With the brake drums removed and the wheels back on, the car now easily rolls in the shop. I then pulled the interior and roof  out/off the car. This was 3 hours work.

[chistech]

The owner had told me that he believes the timing chain is bad because it made a sound he had experienced once before and it was a bad chain. It’s the reason why the car got parked. So yesterday I decided to start the mechanical pull down and to investigate the engine. The clutch and brake masters were removed and both are bad with the usual green/white crystals all inside the plunger and rubber boots. Put together an initial shopping list of parts to get the mechanicals done including all brake hoses, calipers, wheel cylinders shoes, pads, master cylinder, clutch master,clutch slave, and a full clutch kit with pressure plate, clutch disk, and throw out. Got the parts ordered and then pulled the rocker cover where I immediately saw the problem. The #1. Cylinder intake valve spring was broken and the valve had dropped right down with the top even with the top of the guide. The engine was going to have to come out. I started the process of removing everything needed to pull the engine.

[chistech]

Today was day three on the spitfire. Because of the US required rubber bumpers, there is a fair amount of fascia that needs to be removed to access the hood hinge pivot bolts and removing the hood is best when pulling the engine. This car is the first car I’ve been able to stand up underneath when on my lift. My garage ceilings are not that high so I have a Rotary brand, low ceiling lift. Designed for old garages like mine.Because the car is so small and low, I can go all the way up to the stop on the lift. I’m liking this car even more! 
 

With the engine/trans pulled, then separated, the engine got set up on the stand. Pulled the components off the engine then got all the studs removed. A couple whacks on a piece of hardwood freed up the head and i lifted it off. I was expecting to see a shattered #1 piston and a bent, stuck valve. To my amazement I saw neither. The piston does show some contact with the valve but it’s minimal and the valve slides freely in the guide! This is a pleasant surprise and a good thing for the owner. The motor was stuck and showed very light rusting of #2 and #3 cylinder walls. I poured Kroil into the cylinder and put a socket on the harmonic balancer nut. With about 25# pressure on the 3/4” ratchet, the motor broke free. With me to this point, I shutdown the lights and fans calling it a day. Making good progress so far.

[r1lark]

Those Sprites are still an inexpensive way to get into British sports cars, but one has to be careful to look for rust. It's such a shame Triumph had to put those big ungainly rubber bumpers on the late model Sprites. 

 

But they are small! Even compared to my TR3 they are small, a little too small for me. 

[chistech]

13 minutes ago, r1lark said:

Those Sprites are still an inexpensive way to get into British sports cars, but one has to be careful to look for rust. It's such a shame Triumph had to put those big ungainly rubber bumpers on the late model Sprites. 

 

But they are small! Even compared to my TR3 they are small, a little too small for me. 

That’s what really surprises me is that there s no rust through anywhere. For a car up here in the N East it is in exceptional original condition as far as the sheet metal goes. I have a friend who’s worked on these cars for years and when i told him I would be working on a Spitfire he immediately started telling me where the bodies are usually rotted out.

[Zimm63]

No rust is 3/4 of the way home on these.  

 

The mechanics are straight forward and parts availability is good.  

[chistech]

More work today on the Spitfire. Stripped all brackets from the block and wire wheeled the top of the block to remove any remnants of the head gasket. Sandblasted and etch primed the brackets. Wire wheeled a heavy rusted starter to bare metal, cleaned up and checked the bendix assembly, then primed and painted it. Removed the intake from the exhaust manifold and found a long crack in the exhaust manifold. Looking into getting another if possible. Blasted the aluminum intake then clear coated it. Freed up the compression nut that was rusted to the water pipe, blasted primed, then painted the pipe. 
     I’ve had many people ask why restoration work cost so much. It really comes down to the time spent on many things. If anyone has ever stood at a sandblast cabinet for hours while removing decades of rust and corrosion to bring a piece back to raw metal so it can then have a finish applied will know. Anyone who’s removed broken studs in blocks and manifolds with each bolt taking at least half and hour will know. Then all fasteners are blasted and finished along with all threaded holes getting the proper size tap ran through them to clean the threads. It’s all time but it’s being done right. 

The block is ready to be degreased aand power washed. Once that is done, the timing cover, front engine mount plate, and the oil pan will be removed for more blasting and more painting! You can see the #1 cylinder intake lift has the top 1/4” broken off most likely from the pushrod flapping around. The pushrod itself is straight and shows no damage. I did notice a white X painted on the side of the block. Not sure if this was some sort of factory marking put on at the time. The engine is original to the car so it got there some how and it’s not likely someone reached down with a paint brush. Has anyone ever seen this?

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Wow you cover a lot of ground each day!  I never thought this way about my TR-6 but I read a period review on a handful of small roadsters- mostly LBCs and a Fiat - maybe Porsche 914 .  Bottom line on the MG midget & Spitfire, testor said only cars he ever felt he was wearing more so than driving.

[TAKerry]

My brother bought one of these new. It was the last model year, maybe a '79? WHEN the car ran it ran great. Def everything a British sports car should be. But it would overheat and the cure was to pull over, let it sit, start back up and move along. As much of a stereotype that it has become, it also had its share of electrical demons. He had it for about a year and could not take the punishment any more. Traded on a new Cutlass. Literally on the way to the dealer to pick up his new car the electrics under the hood caught fire. He was about a mile from home and stopped in front of a small fish pond. Used that water to put the fire out. Called the dealer and let him know what happened, very disappointed that he would not be getting his new car. The dealers response was that he did not care how he got the car to the lot. He had already sold it to someone sight unseen!! I sure would have hated to be that person.

 

Looks like you are moving right along with this job. I will be following along. Thanks for the updates.

[Laughing Coyote]

This would be a total blast. 

https://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/d/catalina-1974-triumph-tr6-8/7764402019.html

 

[chistech]

Wasn’t able to work on the car today other than drop the head off at the machine shop and do a little parts research. A friend from out of state owns a machine shop and has a great source of parts for the spitfires, both new and old so he sent me their contact info. He also educated me some on what new parts to use and what parts to stay away from. The rest of my day was spent working on the other side of my business, packaging machine repair and sales. Sold a machine and delivered it then repaired another. Tomorrow more of the same with a fair amount of travel so probably no work on the spitfire till next Monday. Hope to degrease and power wash the block so I can continue further disassembly. Not pulling the crank, pistons or cam, but will be installing a new timing chain and possibly the oil pump. 

Edited July 12 by chistech (see edit history)

[demco32]

On 7/12/2024 at 6:09 AM, chistech said:

Wasn’t able to work on the car today other than drop the head off at the machine shop and do a little parts research. A friend from out of state owns a machine shop and has a great source of parts for the spitfires, both new and old so he sent me their contact info. He also educated me some on what new parts to use and what parts to stay away from. The rest of my day was spent working on the other side of my business, packaging machine repair and sales. Sold a machine and delivered it then repaired another. Tomorrow more of the same with a fair amount of travel so probably no work on the spitfire till next Monday. Hope to degrease and power wash the block so I can continue further disassembly. Not pulling the crank, pistons or cam, but will be installing a new timing chain and possibly the oil pump. 

https://rimmerbros.com/Category--Triumph-Car-Parts--m-602?selectedcurrency=2&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItfCnyrujhwMVKTkGAB3aWAT-EAAYASAAEgKK3vD_BwE

They have good parts, Ted.

I did body work on one and order all new parts from them.

 

 

[STEVE POLLARD]

Very cool project Ted !

[Luv2Wrench]

This is awesome, can't wait to see more!

[chistech]

On Sunday I power washed the body along with the engine. I used a product called Tuff Stuff to degrease everything and a good powerful pressure washer. Got the exterior body, engine bay, and firewall cleaned up pretty well. As mentioned before, this is more of a mechanical restoration than a complete one so I’m only concentrating on the cosmetics where it will be hard to get to once the car is assembled. I didn’t concentrate on removing all the undercoat on the chassis on even on the firewall. My efforts were mostly to clean off the accumulated grease and road dirt. The firewall is an area needing attention with the battery box and the deck by both masters being fairly corroded so it will be stripped and repainted.
 

The engine cleaned up well and will now be partially disassembled for painting and timing chain replacement. My normal procedure while working on any car is to go along doing the small bits in between working on the main parts. I put things like brackets, nuts, bolts, etc. into the blast cabinet, blast them, then prime them. Those pieces might sit in etch primer for a day to three but if i simply walk into the garage to grab something, I’ll spray some color on those parts, then walk out knowing that by the next time I get back on the car, those pieces will be dry and finished. I find working this way I’m getting more done it seems and I’m never waiting for paint to dry, literally. Some parts like the aluminum pieces and cast ones are getting blasted then cleared. I’ll also test other accessories for operation and if they don’t work, disassemble them and see if they can be repaired. One such item was the washer pump that is now repaired, cleaned up, then cleared. Currently the 2 speed wiper motor is disassembled and getting the same treatment. These small projects require bench work and I fi them in between the bigger work. It allows me to take a seat after a long day of being up plus I’ve always found changing things up helps you stay interested and motivated. The engine and surrounding areas should have a vast improvement on their looks when done along with the mechanics corrected.

Edited July 17 by chistech (see edit history)

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

Great job and thought process. I really like the ball in the exhaust so nothing can drop into it. Mike

[chistech]

You don’t miss much Mike!

[TAKerry]

And here I thought, that thing would probably run better if he takes that golf ball out of the exhaust pipe!

[chistech]

While I’ve done a fair amount of work, I’m just showing the results here. All the motor parts were blasted and painted after disassembly. I learned from a good friend in the engine machining business that the new aftermarket gaskets available for the spitfires are not good with even the better known head gaskets leaking immediately upon initial start up. That friend recommended I call an experienced British parts supplier he knew. With my machine shop telling me I needed two intake valves and a valve spring set, i called the supplier. He is quite enjoyable to talk with and extremely knowledgeable. I gave him my shopping list and he got back to me yesterday. He found me a complete head gasket set manufactered in 1974 and he even miked the head gasket to find it’s quite a bit thicker than today’s gaskets that quickly fail. He’s got the valves, springs, trans rubber mounts, rubber hood support cones, and every other part I needed except the exhaust manifold. I was fortunate that a good friend who saw my posts on FB about the spitfire has a NOS exhaust manifold and offered it to me. While it’s slightly different with its location for the EGR valve, everything else appears it will work. I believe i will be discarding the EGR valve anyway so the port location won’t matter. Once the engine parts come in next week, the machine shop will get the valves to finish up the head and the motor will get reassembled. All the brake and clutch parts just came in yesterday so I will start on that the beginning of next week. 

[JamesR]

Very interesting project! Best wishes on the Spitfire.

 

I remember these last years of the Spitfire; I think 1980 was the last year for Triumph cars, or at least the Spitfire, and I remember the final few cars that were filtering out from England to the Triumph dealer in our city. They had them on sale with substantial discounts, as few buyers wanted a new car from a dying brand. There were a few Spitfires that were parked by the dealer's service department, and they were either suffering from extremely low quality control...or maybe even vandalism from disgruntled English line workers who were putting in their last few days assembling and painting the cars. The big black bumpers were over-sprayed with whatever color the body was painted, so much so that it looked like the painters hadn't even bothered masking off the black bumper before applying the finish on the body. I recall those  four or five brand new cars all lined up next to each other, all with the same problem: massive over-spray on the bumpers (both front and back, I think.)

 

I would stop in to look at Spitfires in the showroom in prior years, and had never seen a problem like this before. Maybe there was some other explanation, but I don't know what it would've been.  I guess the dealer's body shop fixed the problem before they went out on the lot.

 

Even with that memory, I remember Spitfires fondly. They were a beautifully styled car. I never owned one, but always wanted one...and still do!

Edited July 27 by JamesR (see edit history)

[chistech]

JamesR, this being my first foray into a British restoration, I see some designs I really like and some others, i scratch my head saying “what the hell were they thinking”! Some of the craftsmanship is pretty rough and the rest is just good enough in my opinion. The top of the block (factory finish) looks like someone was practicing Morse code with a hunk of metal or something similar. The machining where the fire rings sit is just Okay, nothing better than that. So now I have to make sure of the quality of the head gasket as it’s known the current brand new ones available, including Payen brand, leak immediately upon start up. I located a vintage Fel-Pro set that I’m picking up today. Going to mic the thickness of the fire rings and discuss the measurements with my guy who knows what a good gasket should measure out as. I believe that Triumph depended more on a quality gasket than concentrating on doing quality engine machining to get things sealed. 

[demco32]

24 minutes ago, chistech said:

JamesR, this being my first foray into a British restoration, I see some designs I really like and some others, i scratch my head saying “what the hell were they thinking”! Some of the craftsmanship is pretty rough and the rest is just good enough in my opinion. The top of the block (factory finish) looks like someone was practicing Morse code with a hunk of metal or something similar. The machining where the fire rings sit is just Okay, nothing better than that. So now I have to make sure of the quality of the head gasket as it’s known the current brand new ones available, including Payen brand, leak immediately upon start up. I located a vintage Fel-Pro set that I’m picking up today. Going to mic the thickness of the fire rings and discuss the measurements with my guy who knows what a good gasket should measure out as. I believe that Triumph depended more on a quality gasket than concentrating on doing quality engine machining to get things sealed. 

These triumph cars suffer overheating of the engine.

Payen is good.

[JV Puleo]

7 hours ago, chistech said:

JamesR, this being my first foray into a British restoration, I see some designs I really like and some others, i scratch my head saying “what the hell were they thinking”! Some of the craftsmanship is pretty rough and the rest is just good enough in my opinion. The top of the block (factory finish) looks like someone was practicing Morse code with a hunk of metal or something similar. The machining where the fire rings sit is just Okay, nothing better than that. So now I have to make sure of the quality of the head gasket as it’s known the current brand new ones available, including Payen brand, leak immediately upon start up. I located a vintage Fel-Pro set that I’m picking up today. Going to mic the thickness of the fire rings and discuss the measurements with my guy who knows what a good gasket should measure out as. I believe that Triumph depended more on a quality gasket than concentrating on doing quality engine machining to get things sealed. 

I worked for a Triumph dealer at the end of the Spitfire's life. They weren't held in high regard by the service guys, very likely for the reasons you mention. I think I'd deck the block and head to make sure you have a really good surface to work with.

[chistech]

1 hour ago, JV Puleo said:

I worked for a Triumph dealer at the end of the Spitfire's life. They weren't held in high regard by the service guys, very likely for the reasons you mention. I think I'd deck the block and head to make sure you have a really good surface to work with.

The head is being done but not the block. It has machined depressions around each cylinder for the fire ring. If you deck the block it would shallow the depressions but I suppose that might not be that bad. I was told the old gaskets have a .035 difference between the thickness of the fire ring and the surrounding gasket. Many of the recently made gaskets only have about .010-.012. This isn’t enough to seal the cylinders and they immediately leak upon startup. I picked up my fel-pro set today and the head gasket is showing about.020 to .025 difference. It is a Payen gasket inside a Fel-pro box. Hopefully that’s enough 

[chistech]

More odds and ends done. Pulled the rear hubs then the brake backing plates. Pulled the front calipers, dust shields, tie rod ends, and rotors. Blasted everything and then primed the pieces up. The rotors are in extremely good condition and will be going right back on as is. Got the rear backing plates painted and assembled with the adjusters, wheel cylinders, brake line, and hoses. I’ve got new rear axle bearings and seals coming so I can’t reassemble the rear until those parts get here next week. 
    Assembled the new rotors, front hoses, and brake pads so they’re ready to go on. Have new inner bearings and seals coming for the front also. The clutch kit they got me is wrong and big enough for a 3/4 ton pickup so it’s going back. 

[Roger Zimmermann]

Boy, those front bumpers for the US market are so ugly!

[JV Puleo]

On 7/27/2024 at 7:14 PM, chistech said:

The head is being done but not the block. It has machined depressions around each cylinder for the fire ring. If you deck the block it would shallow the depressions but I suppose that might not be that bad. I was told the old gaskets have a .035 difference between the thickness of the fire ring and the surrounding gasket. Many of the recently made gaskets only have about .010-.012. This isn’t enough to seal the cylinders and they immediately leak upon startup. I picked up my fel-pro set today and the head gasket is showing about.020 to .025 difference. It is a Payen gasket inside a Fel-pro box. Hopefully that’s enough 

I wonder if anyone has ever hand-scraped a block. That is how very flat surfaces are made for machine tools...much flatter than planing or milling which is almost crude in comparison. It's one of those things I've always wanted to try but haven't gotten to yet though I have most of the necessary tools. It's actually a simple, rather slow, process. All you need are a proper straight edge, blueing and the scrapers. It would remove the absolute minimal amount of material...perhaps .005 at the most. I may try it on the underside of my Mitchell jugs and on the top of the crankcase.

[demco32]

On 8/12/2024 at 4:33 PM, JV Puleo said:

I wonder if anyone has ever hand-scraped a block. That is how very flat surfaces are made for machine tools...much flatter than planing or milling which is almost crude in comparison. It's one of those things I've always wanted to try but haven't gotten to yet though I have most of the necessary tools. It's actually a simple, rather slow, process. All you need are a proper straight edge, blueing and the scrapers. It would remove the absolute minimal amount of material...perhaps .005 at the most. I may try it on the underside of my Mitchell jugs and on the top of the crankcase.

the composite seals are good and better than the metal cylinder head seals.

I have been working on English classic cars for years and there is rarely anything wrong with the front face of the engine block.

unless the engine has been very overheated

Payen is good.

Too much heat in the engine is usually caused by the fuel mixture being adjusted too lean. incorrect ignition adjustment is also common.

If it is still the original iron radiator in the car, it will be partly clogged, I always replace the cooling block with a copper or a completely new aluminum radiator.

Checking the thermostat and water pump is also recommended.