1947 Chevrolet Ute (Australian)

[timecapsule]

I'm curious if there is anyone out there with first hand knowledge of the 1947 Chevy Ute, that was made in Australia.  (right hand drive)?  I'm not referring to the Holden.

I came across a barn find. (literally) The owner says it's for sale.  He said he had it running some years ago.  It was shipped from Australia many years ago and I don't think it has any paperwork with it.  It looks complete.  However it does have a number of bumps and bruises but no visible rust.  Not sure about the frame though.  They are quite small.  But besides the shorter frame, I would think most parts would be the same as the 47 chevy cars, with the exception of everything behind the doors.   It looks complete, even though the grill ( looks just like the stylemaster grill) is long past the thought of re-chroming.  The front bumper wasn't visible, but the owner says he has it somewhere around.  

[Twisted Shifter]

Pictures, pictures, pictures...that's the only way anyone could start to determine if the ute is authentic. There was one on the forum some time ago that was made from a sedan delivery. It was nicely done, but not authentic or a faithful clone. Having no papers is a red flag.

 

 

 

 

 

[timecapsule]

13 minutes ago, Twisted Shifter said:

Pictures, pictures, pictures...that's the only way anyone could start to determine if the ute is authentic. There was one on the forum some time ago that was made from a sedan delivery. It was nicely done, but not authentic or a faithful clone. Having no papers is a red flag.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm convinced that it is authentic.  The guy is well know for his late 37 and 38 chevy collection and he's a retired hot rod builder.  He has a contact in Australia who he had purchased a number of 37 Chevy's from a number of years ago and the Chevy Ute was thrown in on the deal. 

The question isn't about Authenticity.  It's about anyone having "first hand" experience with the Chevy Ute.

Edited September 14, 2023 by timecapsule (see edit history)

[1939_Buick]

Trim, grille, dash, etc on GMH Chev's was not always the same as USA.  Some as USA but could also be older.  Especially  RHD dash's. GM-Ford-Dodge would use an "old" RHD dash for years on USA designed cars-utes(pickups). Not update to USA design every year.

1st photo was listed as 1946 (2020 farm auction in South Australia)

2nd photo listed as 1948 (has modifications) (Photo I took)

3rd photo is a 1948 parts ute at the same farm sale as photo 1

These are very popular in Australia, with a lot modified. Most had a very hard life.

Edited September 14, 2023 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[1939_Buick]

1939 GMH Chev ute literature

[timecapsule]

7 minutes ago, 1939_Buick said:

Trim, dash, etc on GMH Chev's was not always the same as USA.  Some as USA but could also be older.  Especially  RHD dash's. GM-Ford-Dodge would use an "old" RHD dash for years on USA designed cars-utes(pickups). Not update to USA every year.

Photo below was listed as 1946 (2020 farm auction in South Australia)

2nd photo listed as 1948 (has modifications)

3rd photo is a 1948 parts ute at the same farm sale as photo 1

Very popular in Australia, with a lot modified.

Thanks for the pictures and the info and variations which seemed to be common.

 

[timecapsule]

10 minutes ago, 1939_Buick said:

1939 GMH Chev ute literature

Great literature, thanks.  I tried to blow it up to read it but it got a little blurry.  So I couldn't determine it if mentions the engine size.  Would it be the 194 c.i. engine? 

[Crusty Trucker]

Here's the old thread regarding utes that contains more literature and information.

 

 

[1939_Buick]

Ebay UK  GM Holden (AU).  Sales literature is not always accurate from an engineering perspective.

 

1948 Car https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175641481364

1948 Ute https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185763651868

Edited September 14, 2023 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[timecapsule]

1939_Buick , I'm curious, what was the purpose of the flairboard delivery  as opposed to the wellsides delivery?

[timecapsule]

4 minutes ago, Crusty Trucker said:

Here's the old thread regarding utes that contains more literature and information.

 

 

Thank you, I'll check it out.

[timecapsule]

7 minutes ago, 1939_Buick said:

Ebay UK  Car (not ute).  Sales literature not always accurate from an engineering perspective.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175641481364

Below it in the related stuff I noticed the  "1935 CHEV UTILITIES BROCHURE 'RARE' GMH AUST"  That's really cool and lots of information.  Thanks.

Edited September 14, 2023 by timecapsule (see edit history)

[timecapsule]

I'm familiar with Holden.  But my understanding on the other Ute's is pretty vague.  So the big 3 American auto makers all had Ute's down under, right?  Were they basically copycats of the Holden?  Were they as well accepted by the Auzzi's as the Holden?  Were the American big 3 in Australia, completely separate from the USA companies?  I'm curious why the same Ute wasn't introduced in North America?   

[Crusty Trucker]

Here's the '35 Ute brochure:

 

 

[1939_Buick]

5 hours ago, timecapsule said:

I'm familiar with Holden.  But my understanding on the other Ute's is pretty vague.  So the big 3 American auto makers all had Ute's down under, right?  Were they basically copycats of the Holden?  Were they as well accepted by the Auzzi's as the Holden?  Were the American big 3 in Australia, completely separate from the USA companies?  I'm curious why the same Ute wasn't introduced in North America?   

Ute = based on car with a continuous bed-deck. Not a separate pick up bed.   Google Aust ute.   Ford made one in 1934. Sort of accepted a the first of that style.  But some were made before by various manufactures.

Yes. All 3 American auto makers had ute versions at various times.  From 1930's until they all were shut in 2017.  At the end some were cab - separate pick up bed on full chassis and other car based (no separate chassis)

In the 1930's GMH also made ute bodies for Willys and other brands .  And also had ute versions based on UK cars: Austin, Armstrong Siddley, Hillman. Bedford PC, Triumph. South Africa and South America (Brazil, Argentina)  also made locally designed utes/pickups.

 

The local brand Holden, by GM, was made from 1948. After that the GM US brands declined, but were made in smaller numbers. As time went on some RHD GM cars were imported, often via Canada.

 

None of the major car companies/brands in AU were locally owned to my knowledge by the mid 1930's.  Owned 100% by the main USA UK EU manufactures.  The portion of local manufacturer vs assemble from imported components varied over time.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobile_manufacturers_of_Australia

Edited September 14, 2023 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[timecapsule]

18 minutes ago, Crusty Trucker said:

Here's the '35 Ute brochure:

 

 

Very cool brochure, thanks.

[timecapsule]

15 minutes ago, 1939_Buick said:

Ute = based on car with a continuous bed-deck. Not a separate pick up bed.   Google Aust ute.   Ford made one in 1934. Sort of accepted a the first of that style.  But some were made before by various manufactures.

Yes. All 3 American auto makers had ute versions at various times.  From 1930's until they all were shut in 2017.  At the end some were cab - separate pick up bed on full chassis and other car based (no separate chassis)

In the 1930's GMH also made ute bodies for Willys and other brands .  And also had ute versions based on UK cars: Austin, Armstrong Siddley, Hillman. Bedford PC, Triumph. South Africa and South America (Brazil, Argentina)  also made locally designed utes/pickups.

 

The local brand Holden, by GM, was made from 1948. After that the GM US brands declined, but were made in smaller numbers. As time went on some RHD GM cars were imported, often via Canada.

 

None of car companies in AU were locally owned to my knowledge..  Owned 100% by the main USA UK EU manufactures.  The potion of local manufacturer vs assemble from imported components varied over time.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobile_manufacturers_of_Australia

Great info, thanks.

[Crusty Trucker]

Some more non-GM Utes:

1940 Ford---

 

 

 

 

 

...and one from GMC trucks:  (1947)

[Fordy]

Holden built local bodies for most GM lines after they were formally acquired sometime in the 1920's. Prior to that they build all sorts but GM was the biggest customer. There was a lot of interchangeability of panels and common bodies were used to mate up to imported firewall sections. Tariffs in play at the time made it much cheaper to import vehicles as "chassis and cowl" which usually included fenders as well. 

There should be a small tag on the left side front fender or door - or signs of there being one by 2 small holes a little over an inch apart. Tag read "Body by Holden" and had a Lion with a paw on a ball.

If you can find a copy of Norm Darwin's book on Holden history, it has a lot of detail on early production - its exact title escapes me but it's something like "history of Holden since 1900". I gave my copy to my local club's library some 20 odd years ago.

Steve

[maok]

16 minutes ago, Fordy said:

Holden built local bodies for most GM lines after they were formally acquired sometime in the 1920's. Prior to that they build all sorts but GM was the biggest customer. There was a lot of interchangeability of panels and common bodies were used to mate up to imported firewall sections. Tariffs in play at the time made it much cheaper to import vehicles as "chassis and cowl" which usually included fenders as well. 

There should be a small tag on the left side front fender or door - or signs of there being one by 2 small holes a little over an inch apart. Tag read "Body by Holden" and had a Lion with a paw on a ball.

If you can find a copy of Norm Darwin's book on Holden history, it has a lot of detail on early production - its exact title escapes me but it's something like "history of Holden since 1900". I gave my copy to my local club's library some 20 odd years ago.

Steve

 

I believe it was 1932 when the takeover occurred. They kept building bodies for non-GM makes for bit after this date, maybe 'til '35'ish.

[Rod P]

Here is an early version of book. Don't know if it was updated?

 

ISBN 0.959.2287.05

 

 

 

Front Cover, Top to bottom.

1925 Chevrolet Touring.

1934 Buick 8/40 Sedan.

1939 Chevrolet Standard All enclosed Coupe.

1964 EH Holden Premier Sedan.

1970 Holden HT GTS Monaro. 

1976 Holden HZ LE Monaro.

Large pic. 48-215 Holden Sedan. (1948-1953.)

 

 

 

 

Rear cover. Thew final resting place for the old (1953-1956)  ,FJ Holden Sedan. The car is said to have been lodged in the tree by the big flood in 1968 of the Fitzroy River at Fitzroy Crossing , Western Australia. 

The car is some 3 miles from the river.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Rod P (see edit history)

[8E45E]

6 hours ago, timecapsule said:

I'm familiar with Holden.  But my understanding on the other Ute's is pretty vague.  So the big 3 American auto makers all had Ute's down under, right?  Were they basically copycats of the Holden?  Were they as well accepted by the Auzzi's as the Holden?  Were the American big 3 in Australia, completely separate from the USA companies?  I'm curious why the same Ute wasn't introduced in North America?   

The British car manufacturers also offered 'Utes' for the Australian market besides the US car makers.  Some of those British utes are very rare as they were never offered in their home market, or anywhere else in the world.  

 

Craig

[TAKerry]

Why were the Utes so popular in Australia? Why were they never marketed or at least took hold in the US?

[hidden_hunter]

12 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

Why were the Utes so popular in Australia? Why were they never marketed or at least took hold in the US?

The domestic makers don't seem to have ever had much luck with selling their foreign built/designed cars for the most part, with some truly baffling decisions that killed off any chance of success 

 

6 hours ago, Crusty Trucker said:

 

 

 

 

 

Can't imagine a DKW/Auto Union in September of 1939 was a huge seller in Australia

Edited September 14, 2023 by hidden_hunter (see edit history)

[timecapsule]

4 hours ago, Fordy said:

Holden built local bodies for most GM lines after they were formally acquired sometime in the 1920's. Prior to that they build all sorts but GM was the biggest customer. There was a lot of interchangeability of panels and common bodies were used to mate up to imported firewall sections. Tariffs in play at the time made it much cheaper to import vehicles as "chassis and cowl" which usually included fenders as well. 

There should be a small tag on the left side front fender or door - or signs of there being one by 2 small holes a little over an inch apart. Tag read "Body by Holden" and had a Lion with a paw on a ball.

If you can find a copy of Norm Darwin's book on Holden history, it has a lot of detail on early production - its exact title escapes me but it's something like "history of Holden since 1900". I gave my copy to my local club's library some 20 odd years ago.

Steve

Thanks for that small tag info.

[Matt Harwood]

We sold this 1950 Chevy Ute a few years ago. Perhaps the photos are helpful?

 

https://www.harwoodmotors.com/vehicles/inventory_details.php?id=1025

 

[Walt G]

Sincere thanks to all who contributed to this thread/topic REALLY INFORMATIVE excellent .

I love the period brochures and material . WOW.

Walt

[Jim Skelly]

2 hours ago, TAKerry said:

Why were the Utes so popular in Australia? Why were they never marketed or at least took hold in the US?

Chevrolet marketed one here in the U.S. from 1936-1942.  So did Hudson and Terraplane, and a few others.  But they were coupes with a bolt-in pickup box.  The U.S. manufacturers also offered panel trucks and business coupes and probably figured that covered the market adequately.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Jim Skelly (see edit history)

[timecapsule]

3 minutes ago, Walt G said:

Sincere thanks to all who contributed to this thread/topic REALLY INFORMATIVE excellent .

I love the period brochures and material . WOW.

Walt

I agree 100%

[timecapsule]

17 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

We sold this 1950 Chevy Ute a few years ago. Perhaps the photos are helpful?

 

https://www.harwoodmotors.com/vehicles/inventory_details.php?id=1025

 

Thanks for that link.  I found it interesting that that car has 4.11 rear end gears.  I suspect it was made to be used for working the farm with those gears.

[Rusty_OToole]

5 hours ago, TAKerry said:

Why were the Utes so popular in Australia? Why were they never marketed or at least took hold in the US?

Australian market much smaller than the US, that is, far fewer units sold per year. It did not "pay" to make a separate pickup truck. But they could put a light truck body on an existing passenger car at minimal cost.

 

As for why they were never sold in the US, they were. Chevrolet El Camino and Ford Ranchero  were the best known and longest running models but Chrysler got into the act in the early 80s with the Rampage.

 

[timecapsule]

2 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Australian market much smaller than the US, that is, far fewer units sold per year. It did not "pay" to make a separate pickup truck. But they could put a light truck body on an existing passenger car at minimal cost.

 

As for why they were never sold in the US, they were. Chevrolet El Camino and Ford Ranchero  were the best known and longest running models but Chrysler got into the act in the early 80s with the Rampage.

 

True enough about the El Camino and Ranchero, but the Ute had a distinctive personality with the 5 window body style.  Not to mention that they got the ball rolling decades earlier.  Which brings a thought to mind.  When Ford ( I think they were the first) came out with the "extend-a-cab", around late 70's I believe it was, you have to wonder if it wasn't influenced by the Oz Ute design.

10 hours ago, Fordy said:

Holden built local bodies for most GM lines after they were formally acquired sometime in the 1920's. Prior to that they build all sorts but GM was the biggest customer. There was a lot of interchangeability of panels and common bodies were used to mate up to imported firewall sections. Tariffs in play at the time made it much cheaper to import vehicles as "chassis and cowl" which usually included fenders as well. 

There should be a small tag on the left side front fender or door - or signs of there being one by 2 small holes a little over an inch apart. Tag read "Body by Holden" and had a Lion with a paw on a ball.

If you can find a copy of Norm Darwin's book on Holden history, it has a lot of detail on early production - its exact title escapes me but it's something like "history of Holden since 1900". I gave my copy to my local club's library some 20 odd years ago.

Steve

Thanks for that small tag info.

[Rod P]

From Norm Darwin's book, page 10.

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, timecapsule said:

True enough about the El Camino and Ranchero, but the Ute had a distinctive personality with the 5 window body style.  Not to mention that they got the ball rolling decades earlier.  Which brings a thought to mind.  When Ford ( I think they were the first) came out with the "extend-a-cab", around late 70's I believe it was, you have to wonder if it wasn't influenced by the Oz Ute design.

Thanks for that small tag info.

A few US trucks had that design in the 1920's and 1930's.

 

After the war when it came to cab-and-a-halfs, it was Dodge who introduced the Club Cab in 1973.  Ford came out with their Super Cab in 1976.  More of a surprise was Datsun's King Cab in 1977, while GM waited forever to introduce one.

 

Craig

[1939_Buick]

10 hours ago, Rod P said:

Here is an early version of book. Don't know if it was updated?

ISBN 0.959.2287.05

No.  Published by Eddie Ford of Restored Cars Magazine  www.restoredcarsmagazine.com

"The History of Holden in Australia since 1917" is not for sale.  "The History of Ford in Australia" by Norm Darwin still available.

 

100 years on GM in Australia by Norm Darwin published Jan 2002 by H@ND Publishing.  Very good book

Norm Darwin is a former GMH engineer. Left GM 1984. Has written several books on Au car history.

Web site https://www.handpub.com.au/

https://www.handpub.com.au/all-enclosed-coupes

Edited September 14, 2023 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[rodneybeauchamp]

9 hours ago, TAKerry said:

Why were the Utes so popular in Australia? Why were they never marketed or at least took hold in the US?

Our car market was very different to the US and UK because of our small population, large distances between major towns and cities and our heavy reliance on rural industries before WWII.

 

The idea of the coupe utility was the farmer could carry sheep and hay and fertilisers during the week and take it to Church on Sunday. Therefore it had to be comfortable and stylish yet sturdy enough for the tasks. 
 

Also farmers would buy new vehicles in the good years and repair them to keep them running in the drought years.

 

Just my take on this!

 

Why they were not marketed in the US ….. who knows

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

[hidden_hunter]

 

The last 'top spec' ute they made before GM shut up shop here in Australia

[1939_Buick]

For timecapsle (~Hudson)

Body shell probably made by GMH.  Is right hand drive.

Based on a car, not a pick up*truck*, and continuous bed-body.  Called coupe utility at the time by all brands. Later just a ute.

 

Edit

https://www.oldcarbrochures.org/Australia/GM Commercial Vehicles/index.html

Edited September 14, 2023 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[timecapsule]

2 hours ago, Rod P said:

From Norm Darwin's book, page 10.

Nice stuff.  I had read about the lion with the outstretched paw resting on a ball.  Now I know what it looks like.  Thanks

[timecapsule]

Ok,,, so here's another question that popped into my head.  I'm curious how the assembly line took place.  Would the boys down under  have a bunch of car body parts sent over from USA, and then cut the back half of the body off and weld on a box, and call it a day?

 

What about the chassis and drive train? Would there have been issues with the exhaust or starter in respect to the steering box and column being on the right? 

The car I saw had too much stuff stacked on it, so I didn't raise the hood.  If I get serious about the car I'll go have another look and clear off all the miscellaneous stuff stacked on and around it, raise the hood, and have a more detailed look at it.