Oil filter

[tenugent]

# wix oil filter for a 63 425

[Jim Cannon]

Wix 51049

 

 

[Craig Balzer]

3 minutes ago, Jim Cannon said:

Wix 51049

 

 

T or F: Since the blocks are identical, this Wix filter will work for the 425 CID engine as well

[Turbinator]

While we were on filters I found a Wix 42092. They changed part number but said a direct fit for 63 Riviera.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/wix/wix-round-panel-air-filter/wix0/42092/v/a/13723/automotive-car-1963-buick-riviera?q=42082+air+filter&pos=1

[XframeFX]

20 minutes ago, Jim Cannon said:

Wix 51049

I've been using K&Ns HP2003 oil filter at only a few $$ more. Only it only has a shorter height of 4.69" versus the standard 5.14"

What height is the WIX 51049?

https://www.knfilters.com/cross-reference/wix/51049-oil-filter

[XframeFX]

7 minutes ago, Turbinator said:

They changed part number but said a direct fit for 63 Riviera.

OMG Turb! This is good - For our Air Filter element that is. Image shows correct upper OD

Are these the correct dimensions?

[tenugent]

44 minutes ago, Jim Cannon said:

Wix 51049

 

 

That's the # I used for napa Jim,had a falling out with them and wanted to know the wix #

[Turbinator]

1 hour ago, XframeFX said:

Are these the correct dimensions?

John, I do not know the dimensions of the air filter. I would hope their design engineers and QC folk would know what product dimensions should be.

An error in manufacturing would not surprise me.

Turbinator

[BulldogDriver]

Wix 42092 is the number that has been B/O forever. That seems to be the same item# on the O’Reilys link. I would not want to hold my breath waiting for delivery of that part. 
 

Ray

[1965rivgs]

1 hour ago, tenugent said:

That's the # I used for napa Jim,had a falling out with them and wanted to know the wix #

  Be careful Tim, Napa has a big "family"

Anonymous

[NTX5467]

In many cases, tne NAPA part number is their vendor's part number.  For example, in the A1 Cardone line, the placement of the "-" is the only difference, with the exact same numbers.  NAPA Exhaust numbers used to be the same number as Walker Exhaust, which built their stuff.

 

Seems like that in the WIX website, there is a vendor cross-over which also has their number changes in it?  Quite a bit to dig through, once you know their current number via their dimensional listings.  You can also use the Rock Auto catalog listings for dimensions and possibly other brands, too.

 

You can also put the number and vendor into Google and see what pops up, too.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Edited August 14, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[tenugent]

1 hour ago, 1965rivgs said:

  Be careful Tim, Napa has a big "family"

Anonymous

Monkey ain't scared

[rocketraider]

Most NAPA filters are made by WIX, so the filter numbers will be close if not the same.

 

I understand falling out with NAPA. There are four in this area, all about 30 miles apart, and a 20 mile drive for me to any of them.

 

One of them is top notch and gets a lot of my business, and the smallest one has always come thru for me too.

 

The other two are both owned by same family and are serviced thru a different warehouse. The stores themselves leave something to be desired but their supply warehouse is, to be kind, totally incompetent.

[tenugent]

5 hours ago, tenugent said:

That's the # I used for napa Jim,had a falling out with them and wanted to know the wix #

Sorry Jim the napa # I used was 1049

[Hazdaz]

Is '64 the same as '63?

[Jim Cannon]

46 minutes ago, Hazdaz said:

Is '64 the same as '63?

Yes.

 

[NTX5467]

In the 1990s, I had a friend who had a NAPA store in Eastern TX.  He was sourcing his ACDelco items from a Dallas jobber warehouse.  His customers liked it as he had their parts the next day.  THEN the NAPA rep told him he had to use the smaller supplier (closer to him), just over the Louisiana border, higher purchase prices and poor service to him.  End of taking better care of his customers, it seemed.

 

As things have evolved, so many local parts stores are supplied by one massive regional parts jobber.  Sometimes, the jobber owns the store, too.

 

Life goes on . . .

NTX5467

[Turbinator]

20 hours ago, BulldogDriver said:

I would not want to hold my breath waiting for delivery of that part. 

Ray, one way I know of to find out. I’ll let you know one way or the other if I get the filter. 
Turbinator

 

[Turbinator]

5 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

As things have evolved, so many local parts stores are supplied by one massive regional parts jobber.  Sometimes, the jobber owns the store, too.

 

NTX, you are right on regarding customer service. High tech low touch. You call a company and you end going through the answering machine drill. I found an exception to my general statement. A company known as Cyclone makes their equipment here in the US. I use their stuff a lot for what I do. I call and Jody answers the phone  and Jody puts me through to Joe in Tech support. If Joe is on the line. Jody takes my name and number and says when Joe is free he will call you. Joe calls. Makes sense to me. No voice Mail no run around.

Good example of management knowing what customers want.

A NAPA dealer in Hunt Valley MD ran down an A6 newly manufactured air compressor for my needs. The dealer was the owner and worked hard to get my air compressor.

Turbinator

[NTX5467]

Out of curiosity, I did some looking around in Rock Auto today . . . .

 

1963 Buick Riviera 425 V-8    

    Oil filter    Wix 51258  Black color    Ht = 4.338"

                     Wix 51049  White color   Ht =  5.178"

                     Fram PH25  Ex Guard      Ht =  4.047"

 

1963 Buick Riviera 401 V-8

    Oil Filter    Wix 51049    White color    Ht - 5.178"

Interesting that RockAuto online catalog lists both oil filters for the 425, but only the 51049 for the 401, although the Fram PH25 is listed for both engine sizes.

 

From the Wix online catalog  1963 Buick Riviera    401 V-8  shows 51049    425 V-8 shows 51258

 

Other filter listings in the Wix online catalog --

    Fuel      33002    Plastic/opaque    2-5/16" lines      Listed for 401 and 425

                 33032    Chrome w/hoses and clamps      2- 5/16" lines      Listed for 401 and 425

                 33040    Chrome                2-5/16" hoses, 1-1/4" vapor line    Listed for 425 only

    

    Air        401 only    42092    17.062" OD Top    16.16"  OD Bottom    Flange on top, no flange on bottom    2.92" Ht

                425 only    42082    9.96" OD  Top and bottom                     No flange on top or bottom                 3.03" Ht

 

For 1964 Riviera, only one oil filter listed -- 51049 for 4012 and 425 engines

                             Only one air filter listed -- 42092 for 401 and 425

                             Fuel filters    401    33002 and 33032

                                                  425    33033   3/8" lines    and 33040

                             Air filter        42092 for 401 and 425

 

For 1965 Riviera, only the Air Filter changed from 1964 . . . 42084    11.625"  OD    2.36" Ht

 

Hope this might explain some number differences,

NTX5467

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

43 minutes ago, NTX5467 said:

Hope this might explain some number differences,

NTX5467

 

Yes Sir, one thing it tells me is the 63 Riv air filter is different size than the 64 and 65. I would think there would more crossover of parts compatibility then there is. The generalization I make is if the Japanese develops a good design that works they keep. By example the Toyotas I’ve had as my daily drivers hood support has been the same since 1988.

I think Americans change designs in hopes of selling more vehicles.

I appreciate you taking the time to show all the items we might use.

Turbinator

[RivNut]

We have to be consistent here. @NTX5467 is discussing oil filters and @Turbinator is replying with info about air filters.
 

 I’ve noticed that when looking for parts for my 1964 Riviera, Rock Auto offers me a choice of 401 or 425 engines.  There was not a 401 offered for the Riviera in 1964.  We need to take all this info with a grain of salt and use some common sense when looking at parts.   

[Turbinator]

22 hours ago, Turbinator said:

would not want to hold my breath waiting for delivery of that

Ray, I called OReilly’s store in siouthern Maryland. The Waldorf store employee said he would make the request for the filter. The gent went on to say if it is available he try to snag one for me. Also, he will call back and tell me the full story. I suspect you are right saying the 42092 is discontinued.

I think I’ve beat this horse enough.

Turbinator

[telriv]

The 51258 oil filter is the SAME as the 51049 ONLY that it's shorter.

Can be used for either.

 

Tom T.

[NTX5467]

To the issue of parts changing from one model year to another . . . years ago, a local transmission shop owner and I were talking, after closing time.  We were talking about part changes.  He made the comment "If Chrysler or Ford change something, there usually is an engineering reason for it.  If GM changes something, it depends on who was making decisions that day."

 

By observation, most of the "long-lived" reputation of many import brands is due to their engines, or used to be.  In many cases, GM vehicles could have been that way too, but the necessary upgrades to do so would have cost GM billions of $$$$$ to do that, none of which could have related to increases in new vehicle sales.  So spend "enough" money, but not too much.  

 

At 92K miles, I put a Cloyes double-roller timing chain in my '77 Camaro V-8.  It was still in it when we pulled the motor at 525K miles for leaking block freeze plugs, when a rebuilt 355 (which had been waiting a long time, on the engine stand) was installed.  So, if GM had spent about $10.00 on a better timing set and another $10.00 on better valve guide machining and seals, every GM engine could run at least that long with little repairs.  But as the average GM customer traded vehicles every few years, such money would not have related into new vehicle sales, while keeping a good reputation for GM vehicles' longevity increasing used vehicle values.  Have to keep getting new vehicles sold to generate operating profits for the stockholders!

 

In other words, until the marketplace forces GM to spend money on upgrades and such, they will not.  I noticed several years ago that GM-Fleet noted that all GM V-8s (in pickup trucks) had their timing chains factory validated to last at least 200K miles, for example.  If Cadillac had not been "chasing" Lexus, the Northstar V-8 might not have happened as it did.  Similar with Ford/Lincoln-Mercury and their 4.6L V-8.  The other thing is that when an engine family tooling needs replacement, design a new motor for the same money as building a mediocre one, which justifies the expense, then plan on building it for 10-15 years, until "cycle repeat".

 

THAT is why the Chrysler Gen III Hemi was replaced after about 4 upgrades since its introduction in about 2005.  Why the GM 3.5L High Feature V-6 replaced the Buick 3800 and Chevy 3.5L V-6 (2.8L V-6 engine family).  Why the new Chevy "Turbo MAX" 2.7L 4-cyl has replaced the V-6 and 4.8L V-8s in the pickup truck powertrain selections.

 

Oh well, take care,

NTX5467

Edited August 15, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

5 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

From the Wix online catalog  1963 Buick Riviera    401 V-8  shows 51049    425 V-8 shows 51258

Since 1980, I've been installing Fram PH-11 Oil Filters until that brand was demonstrated on Auto Jobber parts counters with cut-aways showing inferior pleated media to whatever the other cut-away was.

PH-11 are full height, PH-25 is a mini version. Just like PH-30 is the stubby version of the full height PH-13A for SBC applications.

 

The K&N HP-2003 is like an in-between for canister height.

 

Question: Many specs don't mention type of media. Synthetic media sounds better than paper pleats. Which Oil Filters have which?

 

[NTX5467]

The type of media usually is not mentioned.  To me, as long as it's a quality brand, that is a moot point.  Especially considering how many miles we've driven cars with simple paper media of unknown micron-trapping specs.  I've seen some filters say they are rated for synthetic oils, but I consider that more marketing hype to charge more money and give an aura of "better quality".

 

Understandably, we all want the best oil filer and air filter available, which used to me either an OEM brand or a known good aftermarket brand.  I remember when Fram was discovered to have "cardboard" ends on their filter media and flat leaf springs as the high pressure blow-off valve controlled (as coil springs were deemed much better).  I believe that their higher-priced or heavier-duty filters now have metal end caps, but "t

he damage" was done, at least to more vintage consumers.  Younger generations were not around for those things, so they just see an oil filter on the shelf, in a nice box, now.

 

The square inches of media area can be a concern, BUT look at the current OEM oil filters on newer engines.  Smaller than my fist, usually.  Even for engines of 6.0+ Liters.  Granted, they are installed on engines which are completely sealed from the ambient atmosphere, but still they must filter lots of oil in 7500 mile, or longer, oil change intervals.  So, in one respect, these things tend to make me wonder if the way we always determined if a filter was good or not, are really valid any more?

 

I've always liked to use OEM-brand filters (ACDelco or Motorcraft), but after a filter test in the 1980s by "Auto-X" magazine, the Wix filters suddenly came into the spotlight, after Dana Corp bought the brand.  It was the best Ford FL-1A filter application in the test.

 

Perhaps a good measure of an oil filter is its weight.  Back in the 1960s, Hastings and Baldwin were usually sold at discount stores.  In looking at their websites and history, each has been bought by an international entity, improved their product, and now they are worldwide brands.  BTAIM

 

Kind of like buying an automatic transmission rebuild kit.  There are inexpensive aftermarket brands, better aftermarket brands, and OEM kits.  When installed, they all do their job well.  Never know how good or bad they are until you pull things apart and see how they held up . . . many years later.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[EmTee]

Most important (IMHO) is to pre-fill whatever brand filter you choose with oil to the extent possible before installation.  Oil pressure is essentially zero until the filter canister is full.  Minimizing that initial startup 'drought' will avoid excessive wear.

[Turbinator]

55 minutes ago, EmTee said:

Most important (IMHO) is to pre-fill whatever brand filter you choose with oil to the extent possible before installation.  Oil pressure is essentially zero until the filter canister is full.  Minimizing that initial startup 'drought' will avoid excessive wear.

EmTee, since I was a boy changing oil in Dad’s pick up, used Chevy and Buicks he drove I always wondered about started the engine with no oil circulating in the engine. Then I read about priming the vertical oil filter at oil change time. Then I thought about the horizontal oil filter fitment. I just put about a 1/3 full in hopes not much would leak while I was spinning the horizontal filter on. I’m a fan of the better on going maintenance items for my Riviera. BG products I believe are worth the money. For ethanol gasoline treatment I use only HEET or BG products based on a University study that appeared to be a good study.

Turbinator

[EmTee]

28 minutes ago, Turbinator said:

Then I thought about the horizontal oil filter fitment. I just put about a 1/3 full in hopes not much would leak while I was spinning the horizontal filter on.

I can get the filter on my '67 Riviera about 2/3rds full and not loose any oil while screwing it on (it's a horizontal installation).  I do, however, take a breath beforehand and work fast! 

 

Any reduction in the time to fill the filter upon startup is a good thing.  That said, I have determined that GM understands this, as my wife's Equinox uses one of those 'bare' cartridge filter elements (i.e., not a spin-on type).  I was initially concerned that there is no simple way to pre-fill the filter cavity.  What I have surmised after several oil changes, is that refilling the crankcase 'automatically' fills the filter cavity.  It appears that oil passes through that area on its way to the sump, as the oil pressure light is extinguished almost immediately after startup.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by EmTee (see edit history)

[RivNut]

I’ve never experienced it as a problem just putting a dry filter on and cranking the engine. The pump is in the pan and the pan has oll on it. The oil goes through the filter before going into the pan. Your filter is the last part of the journey.  

 

The filter on my BMW is a replaceable cartridge that sits on top of the engine. For any of you who drove Tri-5 Chevies with the OPTIINAL oil filter, youll recall that was a cartridge filter that sat above the rocker cover.  

 

 Change the filter and don't worry about it not having oil in it before you start the engine. 

[NTX5467]

After the vehicle sits overnight, or for any period of time, any oil in circulation will drain back into the crankcase, including the filter (unless it has an anti-drainback valve).  The bearings and other things will still have a residual layer of oil on them, pretty much, too, so no "dry engine" starts per se.  The use of the 0W-__, 5W-__ , and 10W-__ motor oils will get oil through the system quicker than a base 30 oil will.

 

NTX5467

[arnulfo de l.a.]

6 hours ago, EmTee said:

Most important (IMHO) is to pre-fill whatever brand filter you choose with oil to the extent possible before installation.  Oil pressure is essentially zero until the filter canister is full.  Minimizing that initial startup 'drought' will avoid excessive wear.

WOW ! I never knew that. Just changed my oil a couple of weeks ago. Fortunately I am in the habit of letting the starter crank the engine until the oil pressure light goes out then i will give the gas pedal a couple of pumps and she fires right up. I will start putting oil in the filter prior to installation from now on. Thanks for the info EmTee!

 

[XframeFX]

10 hours ago, Turbinator said:

BG products I believe are worth the money.

When Tom T. pointed this out, I searched Hi & Lo for this product. Just like many other Chemical companies, they pulled-out of Canada long ago. Too many rules and regulations to bother with the small market here.

Hmm . . . BG44 should've been on my list when in Spokane last month.

However, I had a can all along, LOL! +30 years old and I wonder if it's still usable. Still sealed in its 325 ml tin

Bilingual showing the French side - one of many Canadian requirements in order to sell here:

 

[telriv]

John,

 

This product never goes bad as far as I know.

If it's been sitting on the shelf for 30 yrs. just shake it to mix it up.

I'm sure some of the chemicals have fallen out of suspension.

 

Tom T.

 

[XframeFX]

Tom, I think your recommendations was to add it to a full tank. Then when down to half full, fill up again?

[NTX5467]

BG Products, like other similar chemical products, are used by many new car dealers whose service departments sell those products and related services.  Usually fuel system items and kits, brake pad "soaks", and cooling system kits.  One reason they were popular with our techs was their spiff tokens in the bottom of the cans!

 

IF you find a new car dealer's service dept that uses BG, go to the parts depart or used car department reconditioning parts department, and see what they might have.  Then you might ask for the contact info for the distributor, if you can't find it online.

 

Why new car dealers and not auto supplies?  Selling the products and related services is an additional profit center for the service dept and parts departments.  The sales volume is much higher, too.  Our BG rep came around about every two weeks, wrote the order, and the items were delivered the next week.  Hard to find an auto supply with that kind of consistent sales volume of those products.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[NTX5467]

www.bgproducts.com gets you to the front page of the website.  From there, you can search for a local distributor by state and county.

 

From the result of the "Find A Distributor" search, you can then proceed to the "Find A Shop" search via zip code, after the prior search.

 

The "Find A Shop" page will bring up a map with the shops listed on it, including their addresses and such.  Plus which level of distribution that have achieved.  I suspect the dealership parts dept will sell you the items they might have, while the independent shops might also, as they might also seek to sell you the product + installation services.

 

One of the other tool bar items is "PRODUCTS", so you can browse through that, too.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[telriv]

Yes John B.

 

Tom T.

[Turbinator]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:18 PM, NTX5467 said:

www.bgproducts.com

Good morning, I’m missing something here. I go on Amazon and buy BG products. Are you helping us with the hard to find BG products? Places to shop?

turbinator