WW tire options for first gen?

[Turbinator]

On 4/8/2023 at 8:46 AM, Wayne R said:

a product most of us know called ,

prepsol or wax  and grease remover, for those that dont know, this is the product used just before you paint

your car.

Wayne, this is a late follow up. I remembered your Prepsol wax and or grease remover would remove the brown spots. I'd never experienced the tire bloom until I bought American made tires by Cooper. I have no problem wiping off the brown spots since I have a chemical solution.

Thank you!

[Turbinator]

I just bought a set of radials with one inch white walls for $463.00 inc. tax.

The name on the tire is IronMan 225/75/16. Surprisingly the tires are made by Cooper right here in the USA.

Imagine that.

Turbinator

[RivNut]

225/75R16?

Did you switch to 16” wheels?

[RivNut]

Do you think that your new tires can handle this?  converts to around 187 MPH. German ingenuity.

[RivNut]

Must be behind schedule

 

200 mph across France and Germany. 

[XframeFX]

A desperate purchase this week for these Made-in-China Suretrac 225/70-15s with 1.4" WSWs.

Unbelievable I couldn't do Like-for-Like replacement of my 3/4" WSW 225/75-15s. New tires are 0.9" smaller OD.

 

Price was good, $637 CAD for a set of 5

 

WSWs makes my paint look like a cream colour!

[EmTee]

I like them - I have a similar sized WW on my '64 GP and I think they look good!

[XframeFX]

 

 

6 hours ago, EmTee said:

I like them - I have a similar sized WW on my '64 GP and I think they look good!

Thanks Tim. Your positive comments is encouraging.  I did not sleep well that night. Mostly due to damage to the pinch weld.

 

All 1964 Pontiacs were shod with 14" tires when new. Correct? Size?

 

These WSWs and smaller OD  (27.4"OD) will have to grow on me.

Ideally 235/70-15 with 3/4" WSW for a spot-on OD of 28" is what I wanted. Closer to the optional 7.60-15 OD.

[EmTee]

16 hours ago, XframeFX said:

All 1964 Pontiacs were shod with 14" tires when new. Correct? Size?

Yes, the tires on my GP are 205/75-14.  They were on it when I bought it.  I have had a couple of people specifically say to me that they liked the slightly wider whitewall on this car.  Mine is also white, so the appearance on your Riviera is very much like my GP.

 

[XframeFX]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:45 AM, EmTee said:

the tires on my GP are 205/75-14.

Two extremes of Pontiac. Tim's 1964 Banker's Hotrod and a lowly 1963 Tempest. The latter was built with larger 15" wheels!

Pontiac 8-Bolt wheels of the era were only 14". Strange?

Close-up shows 215/70-15s on this car:

 

[Riviera63]

1 hour ago, XframeFX said:

Two extremes of Pontiac. Tim's 1964 Banker's Hotrod and a lowly 1963 Tempest. The latter was built with larger 15" wheels!

Pontiac 8-Bolt wheels of the era were only 14". Strange?

Close-up shows 215/70-15s on this car:

 

That is a 1961 or 1962 Tempest. Hard to tell which one without seeing the front end. Definitely, not a 1963. 1963 pictured below. The 1961-1963 Tempest's had 15" wheels with a different bolt pattern than the other Pontiac wheels. They were actually Ford Thunderbird wheels. I heard that it was not uncommon for the the different companies back then to share certain parts/designs. I can only guess as to why they wanted the bigger wheels. It may have had to do with the drivetrain. The 1961-1963 Tempests had a rear transaxle that did not have a conventional driveshaft. It had a woven steel shaft which sagged in the middle. No "U" joints. This is where they got the nickname "Ropeshaft" drive. Those cars also had independent rear suspension which was perfect for the radial tires that would come later. The only other American car of those years that had independent rear suspension was the Corvette.

 

Even though I own a Riviera now, being a previous owner of several 1963 Tempests I take exception to the term "lowly". It was actually a very interesting and unique car. The 1961-193 Tempest was the brain child of John DeLorean when he was the head of Pontiac. The 1963 was the test bed for the GTO which would come out in 1964. Besides the things mentioned above there were some other interesting features. The base engine was the 194.5 cubic inch 4-cylinder which was literally a 389 cut in half. This was the first American 4-cylinder since the Crosley of the late 40's-early 50's. The optional V8 for 1961-1962 was the Buick 215 cubic inch aluminum V8. 1963 had a more conventional cast iron V8. With the transaxle they were attempting to get a 50/50 weight distribution front to back. You would check the transmission fluid through a removeable plate in the trunk. 

 

Bill

 

 

[RivNut]

In the movie My Cousin Vinny, the 326 1963 Tempest proved to be the key to the innocence of the two accused “yoots.”  Good movie for car guys.  

[Desmc14]

Late to this but I bought the Hankook Kinergy in 2022... from the USA... I'm very happy with them.

 

[Riviera63]

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

In the movie My Cousin Vinny, the 326 1963 Tempest proved to be the key to the innocence of the two accused “yoots.”  Good movie for car guys.  

Yes, great movie. Interesting fact about the "326" in 1963. It was actually a 337. Pontiac wanted a cast iron V8 for 1963 but did not have time to develop one  from scratch. Pontiac made engines for GMC in the past. They used 389 block and other parts already developed. The result was a 337. At the time GM had an edict that no car under a full size could have an engine larger than the Corvette had, which at the time was the 327. They called it a 326 to get around this and they knew for 1964 they would have a true 326. They eventually were found out but, it was too late in production to do anything about it. 

 

My Tempest LeMans convertible pictured above had the V8 with a 4bbl. That in a light car like this gave you plenty of power.

 

Bill

 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Riviera63 (see edit history)

[rodneybeauchamp]

On 9/21/2023 at 4:29 PM, XframeFX said:

A desperate purchase this week for these Made-in-China Suretrac 225/70-15s with 1.4" WSWs.

Unbelievable I couldn't do Like-for-Like replacement of my 3/4" WSW 225/75-15s. New tires are 0.9" smaller OD.

 

Price was good, $637 CAD for a set of 5

 

WSWs makes my paint look like a cream colour!

You should be happy with those. I fitted them on my Riviera in early 2016 and the next owner is still using them. Mine were 235 on the optional 6” Riviera rim and did touch the frame on full lock but never an issue.

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀

[XframeFX]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:34 PM, Riviera63 said:

Definitely, not a 1963. 

Type-O. It's a 1962

 

On 9/23/2023 at 3:15 PM, Riviera63 said:

It was actually a 337. Pontiac wanted a cast iron V8 for 1963 but did not have time to develop one  from scratch.

Interesting, TX. Did not know this!

Your old Lemans is certainly unique and rare?

Tempest/Lemans were never marketed in Canada. Like Full Size Canadian Pontiacs on Chev chassis and Chev power-trains, GM Canada transformed 1962 Chevy II and deluxe trim "Acadian" (Nova) with itty bitty  13" 5-on-4.75" except 14" for V8.

The new A-Bodies for 1964, the Chevelle dressed up as the "Beaumont" with deluxe trim also Acadian.

Extremely few ordered a 409 Parisienne, 396 Beaumont SD or 427 Grande Parisienne back then. However, seeing the odd one today, I suspect they're clones.

 

On 9/23/2023 at 3:15 PM, rodneybeauchamp said:

Mine were 235 on the optional 6” Riviera rim and did touch the frame on full lock but never an issue.

235, not the same.

Preferred Like-for-Like replacement for old 225/75-15 or opt for 235/70-15 like yours is what I wanted.

MPG will be even more atrocious with these 225/70-15s @ 27.4"OD.

[XframeFX]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:41 AM, MikeJS said:

Although a little early to say late June has come and gone, but have you heard anything on these new skins?

WSW Tire purchase options in CANADA:

Mike, there are major brands marketed in Canada such as Hankooks that produce WSW tires. But it seems all the major Tire franchises draw from the same source including online retailer 1010tire.com. Will not stock WSW "Trailer" Tires. However, the latter will bypass that source and import separately at a slight loss so I was told. 1010tire.com's price for a Hankook Kinergy WSW is $100/tire over a Hankook Kinergy BSW counterpart. For a little more, better go for Diamondbacks. There are small time dealers that will source Diamondbacks.

 

Then there are independent and small chains such as "Canada Custom Auto Works" that source directly from tire manufacturers. I'll list four Tires with WSWs marketed in Canada and particulars:

1) GT Radial - No longer in business as of late 2022

2) Radar Tires - Forever out-of-stock on WSWs

3) Uniroyal.ca Tigerpaw AWP - Forever out-of-stock and might be the same situation as centrally sourced Hankooks. They are produced but Canadian warehouse won't stock WSW "Trailer" tires.

4) Suretrac Power Touring - There is stock in Edmonton warehouse which happens to be the Canadian headquarters for Suretrac.

 

Unfortunately, only #3 and Hankooks are narrow WWs. Suretracs are 1.4" wide for 70 series and 1.5" wide for 75 series. Although wider, they are period correct. Tom McCahill of Mechanix Illustrated after test driving the new 1963 Riviera commented: "Look how narrow the whitewalls are becoming"

https://suretractirescanada.com/

Warehouse: 16309 - 117 Avenue, Edmonton, Alberta

 

[RivNut]

The wider 1.5” white sidewall series 75 tires would be the closest you could get to the original.  I think it’s a matter of what we’ve become accustomed to rather than what looks correct.  Once you mount a 1,5” white sidewall and get used to it, you’ll agree that that is THE tire that belongs on the car for an authentic look.  I’ve run 70 series tires on a few of my Rivieras and they rub at full lock.  For me the 75 series tires are best in more ways than one. 

[Turbinator]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:40 AM, XframeFX said:

These WSWs and smaller OD  (27.4"OD) will have to grow on me.

Ideally 235/70-15 with  3/4" WSW for a spot-on OD of 28" is what I wanted. Closer to the optional 7.60-15 OD.

John, happy to learn of the sharp acquisition of 5 WSW tires you like to include delivery for $637.00 CAD. Truly a good deal for the size and 3/4” WSW tires. 
I like a smaller 275/70 R 15 for my 63. I got my white walls at 1”wide. It took s period of time to get the one inch WSW on the radial bias look for what I wanted to pay.

The tires look good on your car with the sharp looking Buick Roadwheels.

Turbinator

[XframeFX]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:41 AM, MikeJS said:

have you heard anything on these new skins?

I thought I'd post this image from page #29 of a Scottsdale Riviera for sale in 2019 to show WWWs making the paint on this car appear cream as well:

"Rivieras and Riviera parts for sale on local Craigslist, eBay, etc."

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/283876-rivieras-and-riviera-parts-for-sale-on-local-craigslist-ebay-etc/page/29/#comment-1852488

Hmm . . . WWWs never occured to me as an option.

 

Here's  my Riviera's new look with only WSW tires I could find in Canada:

 

Here is the old look with narrower WSWs which I prefer:

 

[RivNut]

The new skins in the middle picture showing the wider white are pretty close to OE.  Looks like it rolled right off the showroom floor.

[EmTee]

1 hour ago, XframeFX said:

Here is the old look with narrower WSWs which I prefer:

Is it really the width that you prefer, or is it the yellowed color...?

[XframeFX]

4 hours ago, EmTee said:

Is it really the width that you prefer, or is it the yellowed color...?

I prefer the 3/4" WSW. But since I stumbled upon that Scottsdale Riviera and that I haven't seen WWWs on a 1st generation Riviera, I thought I'd line-up the three for comparison.

The last two is of my Riviera with the middle being it's current configuration with 1.4" WSWs. Its all good, growing on me. If white becomes dingy, that's OK too. As long its consistent, not splotchy.

That 1st Riviera must be cream in colour or pearl finish, sure isn't white.

[RivNut]

51 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

I prefer the 3/4" WSW. But since I stumbled upon that Scottsdale Riviera and that I haven't seen WWWs on a 1st generation Riviera, I thought I'd line-up the three for comparison.

The last two is of my Riviera with the middle being it's current configuration with 1.4" WSWs. Its all good, growing on me. If white becomes dingy, that's OK too. As long its consistent, not splotchy.

That 1st Riviera must be cream in colour or pearl finish, sure isn't white.

That’s a 1964 and looks like Sunburst yellow.

[Pat Curran]

On 9/23/2023 at 2:15 PM, XframeFX said:

Two extremes of Pontiac. Tim's 1964 Banker's Hotrod and a lowly 1963 Tempest. The latter was built with larger 15" wheels!

Pontiac 8-Bolt wheels of the era were only 14". Strange?

Close-up shows 215/70-15s on this car:

 

Had a 62 in this body style but it was white with red interior.  GM permitted divisional autonomy during this era and the Tempest/LeMans was proof of that.  

Edited November 26, 2023 by Pat Curran
Update (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

A heads-up on WSW tire replacements for those having oldish rubber. Tire manufacturers are discontinuing Tire Lines offering WSW option on run-of-the-mill all seasons. The one "tire shop" source left here in Canada is now having difficulty sourcing a set for my other project requiring 14" WSWs.

I put off a set of 14" tires last summer after my SureTrac Power Touring purchase for my Riviera. They had the 14" size I wanted in the same tire and I should've purchased them too. 2nd choice "Radar Dimax Classic" from last year is also discontinued now. Left over stock is being snapped-up!

 

Tire manufacturers figure who on earth would order WSWs for their trailer? Classic rides you say? What's that?

 

Of course south of the border WSWs can still be had but I'm seeing less choices. Pretty soon it will be Coker, Diamondback and Kontio for summer profile, vintage sidewalls and BIAS look tires costing $$$$ with their small time dealers. No free shipping to Canada, not ever!

Tire shop prices will soon be a thing of the past!

 

 

[Turbinator]

On 11/25/2023 at 3:31 PM, XframeFX said:

Here is the old look with narrower WSWs which I prefer

My tire store owner told me the standard is 15/16” of an inch for WSW tire. My preference and has always been 1” white sidewalls. 

[XframeFX]

1 hour ago, Turbinator said:

My tire store owner told me the standard is 15/16” of an inch for WSW tire. My preference and has always been 1” white sidewalls. 

So, you're saying your preference is spot-on (within 1/16")? Nowadays, I don't think you get to choose. Simply have to accept what's out there unless you want to spend big $$$ for Diamondbacks or Cokers. You see for quite some time, this has been the case for 3" WWWs for 50s rides, that I understand. You want those, well pay-up! But for run-of-the-mill All Seasons with a white stripe? Diamondbacks? No Way!

Bob, what does your tire shop store owner say for tire availability of those 15/16" stripes?

[Turbinator]

1 hour ago, XframeFX said:

what does your tire shop store owner say for tire availability of those 15/16" stripes?

John, Im pretty sure hell get you what you want. You pay for the tires and Ill ship them at rock bottom price, but they come in by Wagon Train. ( Ward Bond and his crew)

[EmTee]

11 hours ago, Turbinator said:

You pay for the tires and Ill ship them at rock bottom price, but they come in by Wagon Train.

Oh, and they may have a couple thousand miles on them when they arrive... 

[Turbinator]

44 minutes ago, EmTee said:

Oh, and they may have a couple thousand miles on them when they arrive

And some shop handling marks to make sure of no dry rot. They should be recently made because after 5 years they are to be discarded. You figure 6 months by WagonTrain takes value away from the tire!

[MikeJS]

2 hours ago, EmTee said:

Oh, and they may have a couple thousand miles on them when they arrive...

Good day.

 

Too funny, that's probably all the mileage my tires have on 'em, but seeing that I bought them in the late '90's, I'm another one that would love to get some newish (+/-) 1" whitewalls up here in the Great White North. I still like to believe that the rubber compounds they used to use are very different from the planned obsolescence of today's manufacturing. Sheesh, I've got underwear older than 5years that are still going strong, but they're not made of rubber...

 

Anyway, John, on behalf of us living in the oft' forgotten northern wilderness, I really appreciate your efforts following up on this topic. (Sorry I forgot to respond to your DM) Hopefully we can find a way to cost effectively source what I believe should be the right width of the first gen Riv whitewalls, way up here, by wagon train, dog sled, dirigible air drop, whatever...

 

Later,

 

[Turbinator]

21 minutes ago, MikeJS said:

believe should be the right width of the first gen Riv

Mike, JS to find a Cooper Tire seller and ask the Iron Man 15” radial with WW. I got them in Baltimore area.

Better yet call Jerry at Interstate Tire in Cockeyville MD and see if his distributor has contact near you. Connect the dots.

Turbinator

[RivNut]

https://zohr.com/tires/cooper-tires/cooper-trendsetter-se-225-75-15-01312/
 

I bought a set of Cooper Trendsetters for my 90 Rivier just a year ago from Discount Tire.  My 90 too a 205/70R15 but I know the tire comes in the 225/75R15 for the first Generation Riviera.

[EmTee]

I'll need to find a set of 14" WSW radials for my '64 GP soon.  If not this year, then probably next.  Maybe I shouldn't delay...

[XframeFX]

6 hours ago, MikeJS said:

Too funny, that's probably all the mileage my tires have on 'em, but seeing that I bought them in the late '90's

I no longer have those BF Goodrich tires purchased in the early 90s with less than 500 miles on them. If it weren't for road trips and liability to my passengers, I would've left them on. Fine for low speed around trips.

 

I insist on premium brand name rubber for my daily drivers and those BF Goodrich tires were that, Now, my Riviera car has SureTracs from Asia, China I think😳

 

Looking for 205/75-14 with  2.5" WWWs or wider. I know this is custom tire territory so I'll settle for run-of-the-mill WSW all-season tires. I've sourced rubber paint to extend the white to the tire bead. HALF A$$ I know, but I need to make my project a roller on original rims (not running).

Some Youtube videos show hackers actually grinding the sidewall off raised white letter tires (still available) to reveal a base white sidewall beneath! Hmmm. .  . how desperate am I?

No Portawalls!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 6 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

1 hour ago, EmTee said:

I'll need to find a set of 14" WSW radials for my '64 GP soon.  If not this year, then probably next.  Maybe I shouldn't delay

This is walmart.com only. Walmart.ca only provides 16" tires and up😞

 

[RivNut]

Want a wider white sidewall? Check out this video

 

 

 

 

 

If you can someone with a whitewall tire machine, he can make any size whitewall from a blackwall tire.  I watched a guy do this once on a Tote The Note used car lot.  A car came in with two white walls and two blackwalls. The guy with the machine used a floor Jack to lift the car and set it on the machine.  The machine would create a grove by removing a little rubber from the tire as it spun on the machine.  The operator would then apply a latex paint in the grove.  He could adjust the cutter so it would cut any width groove.  Cheap whitewalls but 40 years ago whitewall tires made any car more upscale.

[cjp69]

Which are correct for a 65, 225/75/15 or 215/75/15?  Or are either one correct? 

[RivNut]

There is a chart on the ROA website that shows the conversion sizes for each year. In 63 and 64, there were two tire sizes as original - 7.10 x 15 and 7.60 x 15. They convert respectively to 215/75R15 and 225/75R15.  In 1965 the industry change the tire designations. The 65 Riviera came with one size 8.45x15.  Different designation but the same physical size as the 7.60 x 15. Your proper replacement size is the 225/75R15.