Using Excel spreadsheets for in depth research work

[TAKerry]

I applaud your efforts in even wanting to create some kind of data base to further help the hobby. I do understand what the other guys are saying though, as I myself find it easier to pick up a yellow pad and write something down than create a computer program. Keep up the good work! 

[30DodgePanel]

3 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I applaud your efforts in even wanting to create some kind of data base to further help the hobby. I do understand what the other guys are saying though, as I myself find it easier to pick up a yellow pad and write something down than create a computer program. Keep up the good work! 

Thank you TAKerry,

 

Oh I get it too, trust me I do....

I had many notepads and random papers just like the next guy until it became so out of control I had to force myself how to learn Excel and other ways to keep files organized and so I could refer to those notes quicker as needed if someone in the club called on me for answers. I honestly hated the thought of learning it initially because I don't care for computers, but computers and programs are like insurance, we all have to have it if we want the benefits of coverage (or in this case, the benefits of organization for large amounts of data). So why not make the best of it and find the benefits of it in areas of interest such as the hobby? In turn the research has truly become a passion for me as I saw the need in regards to GB/DB truck history. Finding those answers and filling in the gaps is actually very rewarding, but it could not be done without tools like Excel, Word, Adobe or other forms of note keeping on a large scale that other wise would get lost in my office. 

 

But I do see why guys feel the way they do, absolutely. To each his own, I'm not knocking it, if pen and paper works for them then great. Both have pros and cons just like anything else in life... 

 

Bob (1937) made a good point earlier in this thread, he said "I'm not writing a book". So for guys like him who don't need to record epic amounts of data, I see nothing wrong with that old school note keeping method. If it works for them that's great,... I on the other hand do write and hope to eventually publish some of my work to shed light on the things I believe are important for other like minded DB truck owners. For now, I'm still in the foundational stages of learning the craft (research) and I'm content with that even if it's painstaking at times. Sometimes when I come home from a hard day of working with my hands out in the field or in my shop I find solace in the research believe it or not, but that's just me. I love the research aspect just as much as pulling a tranny or engine apart or pounding metal. To me, it's all a blast! The hobby truly has no limits in my opinion.

 

I never dreamt I would ever use Excel in the hobby someday, but I'm sure glad I did though, but then again I never thought I'd know how to type either till I sat down with a $5 disc from Circuit City years ago and taught myself. Now you all have to listen to my ramblings  

 

Electrical sucks though.. you can have it  I simple do not get it since I'm not wired like that (pun intended).

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[dship]

21 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I'm clueless as to what spread sheets are or where to buy one and use it, got to ask, how many Reatta parts can someone own that requires computer storage info keeping? 

Enough spare parts to keep an organized inventory so that when I need a part, I know right off the bat that I have one.  Even though my Reatta is only 32 years old, many parts are unique enough to stock up on when I come across one that I can acquire.  Many parts are now unobtainable, but my Excel spreadsheet says that I have one in stock!

Edited March 19, 2023 by dship (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

3 minutes ago, dship said:

Enough spare parts to keep an organized inventory so that when I need a part, I know right off the bat that I have one.  Even though my Reatta is only 32 years old, many parts are unique enough to stock up on when I come across one that I can acquire.  Many parts are now unobtainable, but my Excel spreadsheet says that I have one in stock!

Given how many times I've bought a duplicate part at a swap meet because I didn't remember if I had a spare or not, this is a good idea. The advantage of the spreadsheet/electronic format is that you can save it to your phone and always have it with you at swap meets.

[60FlatTop]

You are limited by the subject knowledge of the programmer who sets the sheet up.

 

I have collected facilities capital equipment data for over 50,000,000 gross square feet of commercial and institutional buildings. Efforts were severely affected by a third party data entry format. In most instances I could have done better with a wooden recipe box and 3"X5" index cards.

 

And I have been using Excel from back when it was limited to 48,000 rows.

 

I think the programmer I suffered went on to develop Ebay's Parts Compatibility Program.

[dship]

I started out using Lotus 1-2-3 before it was bought out by MS.  I then switched over to Excel even before there was any graphical user interface invented.

[cricketkj26]

Wow!, There is definitely some large amount of grey matter being used in this topic.  I can envision the usefulness of an advanced spreadsheet program 

for tracking parts ,vehicles, mods, production, ect, ect, If you work the Smithsonian, national archives, or for a diverse Restoration facility that tags and tracks 

every part. Im impressed that most of you folks (I'm Assuming) who are  retired or semi retired would want to take on ambitious projects that requires advanced

excel spreadsheet methods.  Im only 61 and use computers everyday and would not dare to venture into such a project. I just want and would have a hard time 

using a systematic non complicated system of recording, tagging, and tracking parts and sub assemblies on my 1925 Chrysler project.  Im 7 years into it . I guess

Its never to late to get stated to do a simple way on the computer. I look at a computer as a necessary evil rather than a helpful tool.  I have spend 3 -4 hours 

transferring photos from cell phone to laptop and tagging them, poof- hit the wrong key and its all gone, LOL(yes I've done it). I just want to get the car back together 

and not have 10 = 20 nuts and bolts left over or spend 2-3 hours figuring out how something goes back together while looking back thru hundreds of photos ,

Ouch - yes this is my first big project.   Kudos to you folks taking on or trying to improve historical data that could be shared across the vintage vehicle world.

After working all day staring and typing into a computer 45-50 hrs a week and culling thru email after email the last thing I want to do after I walk away from the

desk Is get on my personal PC.  I rarely check my personal emails due to looking at so many during the day.  Its time to hit the shop !  Good Luck with the Spread

Sheets, Research Projects , and to all our wrench turning escapades.  Cricket.

 

 

 

[SC38dls]

As far as using excel or for that mater any other computer program that requires hours of input via typing or setting up conversion criteria I refuse to do it!  I’m retired from almost 50 years doing that for my customers. My car is my enjoyment so I do tag extra parts but it’s hand printed, stuck in a drawer or on a shelf and the inventory and location is in my head. When I’m gone it’s all junk anyhow so I’m doing it my way for enjoyment. 
dave s 

[Jim Skelly]

I started identifying emblems, hub caps and wheel covers with a small label on the reverse side.  For spare parts, I write on the part itself if there is no box.  I write a description on Ziploc bags for the few odd tools I have that aren't readily identifiable.  For swap meets, I have copied and pasted photos of items I am looking for with a typed description of part and casting numbers into a Word document that can be printed off and brought to a meet.

[Peter Gariepy]

17 hours ago, dship said:

I started out using Lotus 1-2-3 before it was bought out by MS.  I then switched over to Excel even before there was any graphical user interface invented.

GEEK HERE:  Microsoft didnt buy Lotus, IBM did.

Microsoft's non graphical user interface spreadsheet was called Multiplan.

Excel was first in a graphical user interface on the Mac in 1984.  Then it came out for Windows.

[60FlatTop]

21 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

even before there was any graphical user interface invented.

My first graphical interface was a Honeywell system that indexed a Kodak slide carousel, Pulled up a slide, and backlit it to a gray field screen. It was the hot setup in 1973. Astute observation over the years still puts my money on the wooden recipe box with 3X5 cards.

 

I had been doing it so long when the kid came in talking about a GUI I thought it was some kind of PCB residue.

[SC38dls]

All of these programs are good but the cost for keeping them up to the Latest version is generally going higher and higher. It’s how the company makes money. I’d rather spend my extra cash on my car. It may become obsolete but it’s been the same for 85 years and will continue to be the original version. I’m sure it is going to be around a lot longer than me. It will never get the GM 350 crate version update as long as I’m around. 
dave s 

Edited March 20, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

1 minute ago, SC38dls said:

All of these programs are good but the cost for keeping them up to the Latest version is generally going higher and higher. It’s how the company makes money. I’d rather spend my extra cash on my car. It may become obsolete but it’s been the same for 85 years and will continue to be the original version. I’m sure it is going to be around a lot longer than me. It will never get the GM 350 crate version update as long as I’m around. 
dave s 

There really is no analogy between an old car and software.

Software is a constantly moving target.  Additional features to stay competitive, updates to keep it secure and compatible with new operating systems and hardware, etc.

A perfect example is the forum software. The forum has gone through 5 major updates in 25 years, and countless smaller updates.  If I continued to use the forum software from its original days the forum would've been dead and gone 20 years ago.

 

As to costs.  Capitalism my friend. If you don't like the cost of Excel there are free alternatives including OpenOffice and Google Docs/spreadsheets.

[SC38dls]

Peter, I’m a guy who started a computer processing center in 1971 and grew it into the second largest subscription fulfillment company in the Chicago metropolitan area. It was all custom software and had well over 1.5 million dollars invested in it. I understand development and costs to stay current. I started before disk drives were available and we used mag tape to store everything. I closed it when things could be stored in the cloud and it ran on your phone. My statement was simply to say keeping current in any spreadsheet program is costly and basically silly for a hobbiest to maintain currency on these programs for old cars. 
Never said a word regarding an association or businesses software. After all AACA keeps this forum running and you employed for a reason. The goal is to provide a service to the members and to entice new members to join is it not?  You do a good job of this and I like the new format that happened today but it has nothing to do with a person keeping all their parts info on a spread sheet and keeping those spread sheet programs current. So I will agree there is no real analogy of old cars and software based on your statement. Mine on the other hand has a very real analogy for spending money on an old car or software you have paid for multiple times! 

dave s 
 

Edited March 20, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

4 minutes ago, SC38dls said:

AACA keeps this forum running and you employed for a reason.

I'm employed!?  Damn... where have the payroll checks been going for 25 years!?  (Dave, I'm a volunteer)

 

5 minutes ago, SC38dls said:

My statement was simply to say keeping current in any spreadsheet program is costly and basically silly for a hobbiest to maintain currency on these programs for old cars. 

I humbly disagree. "Costly" is relative.  We buy tools to fix our cars.  Software is just a tool.  The cost is relative to the need.  People buy $1,000 hydraulic jacks vs $50 ones simply because they need the better tool.  No different with software. If the original poster finds he has a need better addressed with commercial software vs cheap or free software, that is not "silly".  The cost of Microsoft 365 is $100 a year and includes Excel, Word, Powerpoint, etc.  Considering the 100s of hours he wants to invest in this project, the $100 yearly fee seems trivial.

 

[dship]

2 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

GEEK HERE:  Microsoft didnt buy Lotus, IBM did.

 

My memory eluded me some since it was so many years ago...thanks Pete

[Peter Gariepy]

4 minutes ago, dship said:

My memory eluded me some since it was so many years ago...thanks Pete

Trust me, my memory is waning as well.  

[ply33]

26 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

. . .  The cost of Microsoft 365 is $100 a year and includes Excel, Word, Powerpoint, etc.  Considering the 100s of hours he wants to invest in this project, the $100 yearly fee seems trivial.

I am not sure I could recommend it for business use but I find LibreOffice does everything I need for word processing and spreadsheets. The price (free) is right too.

 

The TL;DR for the rest: It sounds like the original request might be a big project not only on data collection but in organizing the data. And that organization might be more complex than a spreadsheet can handle.

 

I started collecting parts cross reference information for my Plymouth on 3x5 cards back in the 1970s. When PCs became available I switched first to a text file then to a proprietary database program and later to SQL.

 

The issue comes in on how you want to access and search for things. Even just a simple parts cross reference can turn into multiple tables (part description, part type codes, car model part usage, part interchange, supplier list, etc.) all interrelated and indexed. That is hard to do in a spreadsheet. At least I am not enough of a spreadsheet guru to do it.

 

And accessing SQL, other than in a command line, requires some other programming. Not an issue for me as I spent 40 years in software development.

 

My “final” result in the parts database on my vanity website where you can search by part number, part description, part type code, etc. and the results are formatted similar to the original parts books. Oh yes, you can also have the pages formatted into PDF for printing, etc. Please excuse the late 1990s/early 2000s look of the website, I haven't bothered spending the time on keeping it up with modern web appearance standards.

 

All this took a lot of work above and beyond transcribing from factory parts books, information found on parts boxes, and aftermarket supplier catalogs, etc.

 

I applaud 30DodgePanel for starting this project and hope it turns out well. But I suspect it will be a bit larger effort than they suspect.

[SC38dls]

Peter my apology for not remembering you are a volunteer ( seems like we have a pattern going here about memory) but I’m older and the grey hair keeps pulling memory cells from my head. I did remember the important part (at least to the forum users) is you do a damn good job at it. I sure hope AACA is footing the cost of this software and not you! As far as cost for a car guy with a few cars or 250 parts, you are paying for software over and over. When you buy a good floor Jack you pay onc, that’s it. My personal one is almost 50 years old. My last excel was four years ago and they wanted a ridiculous amount to renew it. The different spreadsheets I have on that computer can not be used anymore unless I paid their hostage fee. Actually because I have my old custom software I can still import any excel file into it and output our spreadsheet for searches and updates. But my point is still you are spending time and money on a task you will most likely never use as a hobbiest, if you are doing it for a parts selling business it might be worth while but I will bet your cost exceeds the benefits. 
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. But I still respect your skills keeping this forum in very good running order. 
dave s 

 

ps Where were you when I was looking to add a good programmer to our staff. I’m not sure if you are old enough to program in assembler to convert tape logic to disk or disk to the cloud. I’m talking generations of main frame to server systems. 

[Peter Gariepy]

29 minutes ago, SC38dls said:

My last excel was four years ago and they wanted a ridiculous amount to renew it.... ridiculous amount to renew it.... The different spreadsheets I have on that computer can not be used anymore unless I paid their hostage fee

The most you'd have to spend today for Excel is $100 a year. (not ridiculous to me, its part of the job to have the most recent MS products on hand)

 

In the case of the original poster... Google Spreadsheet is about as robust, and it's free. (I'm suggested that in a previous post.  The cost of the tool/software relative to the time required to get the data in to get the desired result is the bigger issue. The real expense is time, not software. Better software may reduce the time, offsetting the cost. 

 

29 minutes ago, SC38dls said:

Where were you when I was looking to add a good programmer to our staff. I’m not sure if you are old enough to program in assembler to convert tape logic to disk or disk to the cloud. I’m talking generations of main frame to server systems. 

Yikes.  Assembler!  Never was in my skill set.  I did recently get a tape from a client with data on it that took some doing to extract. Had to find the hardware to read the tape. Then convert ebsitic to ascii, then CSV, then XLS, then SQL.  Fun times.

[SC38dls]

We programmed everything in assembler because it saved room in the memory. It also gave us the ability to move only the part of the program for that particular process into the processing memory therefore giving more room and speed to that portion of the update. Speed being the goal when it took 20-25 minutes to read a full mag tape. I’ve still got a program that converts csv to txt faster than I could mount a mag tape with 200,000 records on it. 
dave s 

 

ps IBM called the memory swap virtual memory. They also used that technology to get users to upgrade their mainframe. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[ply33]

4 hours ago, SC38dls said:

We programmed everything in assembler because it saved room in the memory. It also gave us the ability to move only the part of the program for that particular process into the processing memory therefore giving more room and speed to that portion of the update. Speed being the goal when it took 20-25 minutes to read a full mag tape. I’ve still got a program that converts csv to txt faster than I could mount a mag tape with 200,000 records on it. 
dave s 

 

ps IBM called the memory swap virtual memory. They also used that technology to get users to upgrade their mainframe. 

My first software paycheck back in 1973 was for assembly language programming a 16 bit minicomputer that had a massive 8K words (16K bytes) of memory. Cross compiled the card deck for it on a IBM 360 with the resultant program on a mag tape. Had to key the bootstrap for the minicomputer in on the front panel switches.

 

There were all sorts of techniques used back in that day to optimize processing speed and/or memory use that have gone by the wayside with the advent of more powerful processors and cheap storage.

[Peter Gariepy]

4 minutes ago, ply33 said:

My first software paycheck back in 1973 was for assembly language programming a 16 bit minicomputer that had a massive 8K words (16K bytes) of memory.

 

 

And now... 50 years later, we have devices in our pockets more than 5,000 times faster than supercomputers from the 1980s, with virtually endless storage and memory, that has access to the entirety of world's knowledge. Who knew.

 

[stakeside]

On 3/18/2023 at 5:52 PM, 30DodgePanel said:

Wwwhy's that, can you help me hammer it into correction?  

 

Seriously though Bob, it's pretty confusing to even Dodge Brothers truck owners who are members of the Club which is why most truck guys just accept word of mouth or stories for all their details on the truck they own, hence the reason guys like me are left to find all the answers. I realize some lazy asses don't care about the details... I get it, but those of us who do care choose to teach ourselves new techniques in research in order to some day make up the ground lost over the years. 

 

Here's a few "blinding issue" examples just for shits and giggles. Let me know if you can help  

1.) Why did the DA124 and DA133 appear out of nowhere in the E Series as they transitioned into the F Series trucks.  

2.) What are the exact serial # ranges

3.) At which point did they phase out the Victory Six engine for the DA6 truck engine

4.) Were the D series engines used in cars also

5.) How about the Standard, did the truck and cars both share the same engine

6.) Why did some E series trucks use a Carter Carb and some used a Zenith for the same engine

7.) Are DA6 Car engines and DA6 Truck engines the same ( Clue: no they are not! Found that out doing research like this) 

Etc.......

 

 Let me know if you want me to keep going or is this enough for you to help out with .... I have pages of questions and you'd be surprised how one part# can open up so many avenues of discovery. 

 

I am not sure of the differences of the passenger and truck DA6 engines.

 

I acquired a DA6 engine that was out of a 1929 DB Victory passenger car.  The engine wasn’t locked up and I was able to get running. It was a tired engine and had heavy oil flow out of the rear bearing. I then installed the passenger engine in my 29 Dodge Bros ¾ ton truck. I was able to get my truck on the road until my truck engine was rebuilt.

Here are the external differences of the passenger car engine:

1)      Replaced 2 blade fan with a 4 blade fan

2)      Replaced crank front pulley

3)      Replaced water pump pulley

4)      Replaced manifold since exhaust exits near rear of engine

5)      Replaced upper water inlet

6)      Replaced distributor lock base.

7)      Replaced throttle and spark linkage

There were no differences between the truck and passenger DA6 block engine assembles observed. The only noticeably difference was the location of the motor number. It is on front of the engine not rear like the passenger car.

On 3/18/2023 at 5:52 PM, 30DodgePanel said:

e

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by stakeside (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

21 hours ago, stakeside said:

 

I am not sure of the differences of the passenger and truck DA6 engines.

 

I acquired a DA6 engine that was out of a 1929 DB Victory passenger car.  The engine wasn’t locked up and I was able to get running. It was a tired engine and had heavy oil flow out of the rear bearing. I then installed the passenger engine in my 29 Dodge Bros ¾ ton truck. I was able to get my truck on the road until my truck engine was rebuilt.

Here are the external differences of the passenger car engine:

1)      Replaced 2 blade fan with a 4 blade fan

2)      Replaced crank front pulley

3)      Replaced water pump pulley

4)      Replaced manifold since exhaust exits near rear of engine

5)      Replaced upper water inlet

6)      Replaced distributor lock base.

7)      Replaced throttle and spark linkage

There were no differences between the truck and passenger DA6 block engine assembles observed. The only noticeably difference was the location of the motor number. It is on front of the engine not rear like the passenger car.

 

Hi Sherman,

I guess I should have explained that comment. True, the bore, stroke and internals are the same, but many of the differences were external as you pointed out, plus around Feb 1930 according to a confidential bulletin I came across the DA6 was "modified" to be more suitable for truck use. What that modification was and at what engine # this occured is something I haven't pinpointed yet. I meant to pursue it at one point but was sidetracked with other research details. As far as I know, the DA6 cars did not receive this modified truck engine. If you are aware of what this modification was I'd like to know your thoughts, especially if you have a suggested engine # where this occured according to parts books from any factory details.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

On 3/19/2023 at 12:50 PM, dship said:

Enough spare parts to keep an organized inventory so that when I need a part, I know right off the bat that I have one.  Even though my Reatta is only 32 years old, many parts are unique enough to stock up on when I come across one that I can acquire.  Many parts are now unobtainable, but my Excel spreadsheet says that I have one in stock!

 

I could definitely see that benefit. 

I would imagine you can tell if and when a change occured (at what part #)? 
Try finding that in a note pad and it could take 5, 10, 60 minutes ... hell, sometimes days if you forgot where you wrote it down. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

On 3/19/2023 at 1:16 PM, 60FlatTop said:

I think the programmer I suffered went on to develop Ebay's Parts Compatibility Program.

 

IF true, that would explain a lot of our current frustration with the search capability on eBay would it not?. 

[30DodgePanel]

On 3/20/2023 at 10:34 AM, Peter Gariepy said:

I humbly disagree. "Costly" is relative.  We buy tools to fix our cars.  Software is just a tool.  The cost is relative to the need.  People buy $1,000 hydraulic jacks vs $50 ones simply because they need the better tool.  No different with software. If the original poster finds he has a need better addressed with commercial software vs cheap or free software, that is not "silly".  The cost of Microsoft 365 is $100 a year and includes Excel, Word, Powerpoint, etc.  Considering the 100s of hours he wants to invest in this project, the $100 yearly fee seems trivial.

 

It's a small sacrifice I choose to make in hopes that it answers more detailed questions long term for my Dodge Brethren for years to come. 

Sure it is only one aspect of the GB and DB truck community but I feel personally responsible for some sick reason.

Also true is the challenge of time and input that you've touched on multiple times. Lets hope I can out run father time so it's not in vain.

 

I've even had THAT talk with my wife recently, "if something happens to me, make sure this stick gets in the right hands".

Her response was (gasp) "OMG Dave, what have you gotten yourself into?" lol

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

On 3/20/2023 at 11:24 AM, Peter Gariepy said:

On 3/20/2023 at 11:13 AM, SC38dls said:

ps Where were you when I was looking to add a good programmer to our staff. I’m not sure if you are old enough to program in assembler to convert tape logic to disk or disk to the cloud. I’m talking generations of main frame to server systems. 

Yikes.  Assembler!  Never was in my skill set.  I did recently get a tape from a client with data on it that took some doing to extract. Had to find the hardware to read the tape. Then convert ebsitic to ascii, then CSV, then XLS, then SQL.  Fun times.

 

You guys really should get a room (chatroom) and stop hijacking this ever important thread  

(Just joking!)

[zdillinger]

For those concerned about the cost of Microsoft 365, I humbly offer Google Drive. It offers Google Sheets, an Excel-like option, that is easily accessible anywhere you have an Internet connection. You can get a link that can be shared with anyone, locked down with a password, etc., and offers 15gb of storage for free. Also, Google Meet is a handy alternative to Zoom for online meetings.

 

I make extensive use of Google Drive in my personal and professional life. Highly recommended.

Edited March 22, 2023 by zdillinger (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

On 3/17/2023 at 10:18 AM, Walt G said:

These sage words apply to historical research as well , biggest thing is knowing were to look at original material that even had data, information, images, photographs . Does that exist and if found can it be combined with other information "of the era"  to give a true accurate presentation in a article or story of what happened. First person accounts of what was going on are not that common, and some information can only be found in "trade" publications that was not readily available to the general pubic even when new. Industry or dealer only publications. The joy of being a historian. Not everything can be scanned and copied to be on line for convenience. for all authors

I have had people get irate with me because they have a vehicle and demand that they also have the information I have  because they deserve it. I have ignored such behavior .

 

Very true Walt.

 

You've touched on other important factors of why it's important to attempt to combine it all on one platform for quicker access to information instead of sifting through countless hours of data via notes, books, brochures and catalogs as a truck owner. As seen in these examples below, researchers in the 21st century have the ability to really draw down on any details we choose to that help validate or prove what our primary sources are in order to correct any prior errors within the club data or from some members who continue to repeat incorrect regurgitation as I call it (among other reasons). It's important information when looking for the correct parts for your vehicle if you're trying to restore it or find details about your truck. Yes the parts list has a lot of that information but combining all the details for all trucks into one database for a select set of years is benefical to everyone (Example 1928-1932 or 1921-1932 as there were many changes from Graham to Dodge trucks).

 

If we can create a user friendly database, and a owner of a DA133 truck came to me (or anyone who has access to the database) we could help quickly in just a few easy steps. 

 

1.) This first snippet is that very scenario of those short steps.

A 1930 model DA133 truck that was shipped by boat a few days after it was finalized on the production line dated 9/28/1930. It clearly shows this as a 1930 model built after July of 1929 yet some may insist that the story they heard or had passed down from prior owners says their truck to be a 1927 or a 1932 for example. Showing the current owner and caretaker of a truck exactly what they have is a delicate balance at times and can be difficult to convince them otherwise without proper documentation. In this scenario they have a "1930 model produced after July 1929". Not a 1929, not a 1927, not a 1932...

 

 

 

 

2.) Then we simply click on the dealer invoice on the far right as one of the primary sources that tells us where we found that information (imagine using a notepad for this lol). Source could also be a era publication as you mentioned, I'll touch on that below in another snippet. 
NOTE my typo in this snippet. I typed 535879 in this example, but the invoice is actually 535873. Excel's way of snitching on me to correct my error I guess....  

 

 

3.) Then once we click on the photo attached to the dealer invoice note a copy of that invoice appears, with details not only about this one specific truck, but many other facts such as the shipping company, Pearl Motor Co, the Order # (from Dodge factory), Bill of Laden, what district etc.

The facts and details that one wishes to draw down on are endless with one snapshot that could only be included with the capability of new technologies such as Excel or other similar tools. Sure it takes hours of input (as Peter said, that's where the challenge is and I'm fully aware of that), but to me the possibilities of an extended project such as this could have far reaching benefits for years to come as we are looking for more clarity within any given manufacturer not just the Dodge brand. The real challenge for me is not just entering the data but also verifying the source (and correcting it if necessary) then double checking my work before I save it. (This is when I wish I was Marty Feldman or had multiple sets of eyes  ).

 

 

 

This next snippet is a perfect example of why source material proof is important to note and be able to find it quickly if needed. 
When you look at the truck below with frame #E148869 it shows the source to the far right as "AACA forums" and the poster was R Keent. I've reached out to that poster several times in the last 10 years but he has never responded to verify the details I entered were correct for the truck he had. As one might imagine, if one digit is off in the frame or engine # sequence it really causes many more questions or confusion and that's something completely avoidable. In order to make sure we have the correct details we have to have input from others who are at times just too lazy to help or don't care unfortunately. Sometimes they may have legitimate reasons such as a recent death in the family, illness or may have passed on themselves making it impossible to verify or are simply too private and don't wish to share the details. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Original publication as a source.

Proving the introduction date for new models as they rolled out can be another delicate discussion with some while trying to correct data points from nearly 100 years ago. Your point about early automobile publications is a very important tool and now with digital collection access via the internet (free to public) we can locate and note the source for those details if needed without spending thousands of dollars on source materials. These are important details that can sometimes correct regurgitated information that otherwise would remain incorrect for the next generation to figure out. If we're seeing it today while we are researching then why shouldn't we correct it? Note this next snippet is an example from a August 1929 issue of Commercial Car Journal, it shows not only the introduction of the model DA133 trucks, but also the various combinations and specs for each of DA133 6cyl OR for the 4 cylinder model U133 that was ordered, I.E. some came with Carter carbs, some had Zenith, some had Delco Remy, while others had North East components, tire sizes etc. As a purist and restorer, these details are not only important but could effect your trucks current operation if you simply guess at what parts were used or if you believed incorrect regurgitated information, then there is the judging aspect if one so desired to go that route for awards or accolades. If a judge knows these facts then this is yet another effective tool once completed.

 

 

 

 

Now imagine if we were the owner of one of these trucks in the Dodge Brothers Club (or any Club) and found this data. Wouldn't we want to have access to some of these original documents for our vehicle? 

Of course we would, who wouldn't... 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Well stated, it takes a lot of patience and time to "get it right" so far as exactly what happened. BUT many now are so used to instant information that the click of a button provides can not understand those of us who put the time in ( years in fact) to get that odd bit of information that can validate or change what was known or assumed all along to be correct.

I view this from an automotive history point but also from a local/state historian's viewpoint as well . Same mentality of " need it now" exists but not so much there. But all that being said there are some of us who will continue to plug away at trying to make all of what we find available. I do not believe in the word "expert" there is no such thing, more knowledgeable , perhaps, yes indeed all because of taking the time to do the research, do the "homework".

Sharing what we can gives some of us great pleasure, I just spent the last 2 days looking at then sharing 25 photographs for a friend who is to give a talk at a club's annual meeting that takes place soon. Most all never before seen and of the 1925-37 era.

Walt

[30DodgePanel]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:40 AM, stakeside said:

I am not sure of the differences of the passenger and truck DA6 engines.

 

Hey Sherman,

I thought you'd like to see some of the examples of these Excel capabilities I've been experimenting with.

I'm sharing here with you and others so everyone can enjoy and hope it helps grow other club interest in the possibilities of using Excel or similar.

 

As you know the Graham and Dodge Brothers relationship officially started with the mysterious 1000 - 3000 Series. They had produced a "Truck Builder" (example on one of our recent newsletter covers) and Speed Truck prior, but that was not an exclusive deal with the Dodge Brothers because Graham were making many bodies on other chassis such as Cadillac and over 50 other makers at the time according to many sources. I've never had much of an understanding of the 1000 - 3000 series until I came across a brochure while searching a digital collection available online. When I began clicking on the links I was amazed at what I stumbled onto. Again, I'm trying to put as many of these details about primary source data as I can onto this spreadsheet. Having a link for each body for the beginning of the series I think will be key for all of us to have a better foundational understanding of the later models and styles.

 

To me, these type of items are like icing on the cake for a researcher.

Enjoy. 

Snippet of current layout in Excel (this may change).

 

 

I can send you the rest of this brochure with the full page with specifications and notes to you in email if you'd like, this is just a couple of examples I was dabbling with in Excel to make sure the project idea of incorporating of links and photos as attachments into to the database would even work before I got too far. When I share it, now you just click on 2001, 2010, 2027 to view the specs to give the viewer a better understanding. Amazing find and I'm exciting to share with anyone who has an interest in understand the GB/DB history. 

 

Cover

 

 

 

As I've researched the GB/DB trucks over the years something has always plagued me ....

"What is the body style numbering and cab numbering system all about, does it have a meaning, or was it pointing to anything that can help answer other questions". 

In just three short pages I believe I am already seeing a theme (could be wrong) of the foundation for future cabs and body styles/numbers. Granted I am still looking for any solid documentation on the 1000 and 3000 series but this brochure that covers the 2000 series styling is very encouraging for use on attaching links to share the story. 

 

 

Truck chassis with cab No. 2004 ( never seen that before, or the early logo style ) 

No. 2001 Express Body

 

 

Yes, some of this information can be found in some books (or many different books that are not in any real order as models were randomly discussed) but to have it on one page with search and link capabilities is a much better format for some users and researchers, especially one that follows the model chart layout for ease of understanding. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Gunsmoke, I apologize as I did take it off topic in some ways. I’m glad you got it back on track. It is a good, important subject for dodge owners. 
dave s 

[ply33]

5 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

. . . Having a link for each body for the beginning of the series I think will be key for all of us to have a better foundational understanding of the later models and styles. . .

If the Internet Archive has a copy on their “wayback machine” you might want to link to that in addition or instead. Or possibly copy/download the information.

 

The issue is that the web is dynamic and links will break. If you have a link to the original source (photocopies, etc.) located on a server that you don’t control it is almost certain that the links will change or disappear sometime.

[30DodgePanel]

17 hours ago, SC38dls said:

Gunsmoke, I apologize as I did take it off topic in some ways. I’m glad you got it back on track. It is a good, important subject for dodge owners. 
dave s 

 

I presume you meant that for me? 

Please, no apology necessary, I was just razzing you and Peter....

I think you guys both made some important observations and it kind of shows us all how involved things can get with those technologies we take for granted for being at our fingertips. Also gives the reader a glimpse into the many advances that it took to get here. I for one appreciate everyones experiences even though I don't fully understand all that you discussed. 

 

Regards

Dave

Edited March 23, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

16 hours ago, ply33 said:

If the Internet Archive has a copy on their “wayback machine” you might want to link to that in addition or instead. Or possibly copy/download the information.

 

The issue is that the web is dynamic and links will break. If you have a link to the original source (photocopies, etc.) located on a server that you don’t control it is almost certain that the links will change or disappear sometime.

Yes, very good points and advice.

 

I have copied all the details and have them in folders on my computer and make sure to save and backup daily after revisions and enhancements are made. I do like the idea of adding important links to the archives for an additional safeguard measure as those technologies that you mentioned change. 

 

And by the way, thanks for reminding me about the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. I always forget to use that for some reason but I need to use it more to find out what they have in storage. Thank you! 

Edit, I just realized why I haven't used it much. I just need to get used to it. In my opinion (in the past) things take way too long to view. I think it's operator error so I'll need to practice with it some to see if I can improve my search skills to make it more efficient for what I'm wanting to accomplish.

 

 

Here's a glimpse into the insanity that is constantly evolving . 

By all means, if you see anything that can be improved on I'd appreciate any open feedback or critiquing 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

37 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

 

I presume you meant that for me? …….I for one appreciate everyones experiences even though I don't fully understand all that you discussed. 

 

Regards

Dave

Dave, my mistake. I was tired from driving back to SC from VA and read another thread where he responded. I owned and ran a service bureau for 50 years and I still don’t understand all this computer stuff. 
dave s 

[cricketkj26]

Wow those are some incredible Files  that took some serious note taking , data recording and Research.  You definitely benefit from professional grade software, apps and

a upgraded computer to drive those Tools!  You have a lot more brain power than I'll ever have. I truely get the point now. Cricket.  Thanks for sharing this issue.