'Air filter for a '63 w/ a 401 - update

[Turbinator]

I found the 49092 air filter on Amazon, but is was hard to find. A website Everythingtruckparts.com has the 49092 listed easy to find.

Turbinator

[RivNut]

Listing is one thing, availability is a whole different ball game.

[NTX5467]

Yes, I found that out when I was searching for KONI shocks for my '77 Camaro in the later 1980s.  Lots of places offered them, but only a few had them in stock for immediate shipment, when asked via a phone call.  If nobody has them in stock, but their main supplier warehouse has them, then might be best to use the closest place to you where you can drive to pick them up.  Possibly building a relationship with somebody more local rather than somebody "on the other end of a phone line".

 

NTX5467

[BulldogDriver]

In this case there are many listings for the filter but as far as I have seen, none exist. As far as I can see WIX may no longer be a source for them but as I have stated before that has not been confirmed, they won’t respond to requests for confirmation. 
 

As far as I can see WIX was the only supplier of these in recent years. The market for them is very limited; our cars, two years of Cadillac, and one year of Oldsmobile.
 

I have a contact within a major Retailer that is trying to reestablish a distributorship with WIX. If or when that occurs the plan is to see if they will make a special run of these filters and this will probably be the last time to get them.  
 

I have also reached out to a source that does reproductions to see if there is another option to be able to keep using our unique air cleaners. 
 

Will update went I know something. 
 

Ray

[RivNut]

This morning I spent some time talking to two people at Wix; the first in customer service who told me that the 49092 is not discontinued but they had none in stock but had some that are back ordered.  She transferred me to another person in the warehouse who explained that the back ordered items would not be produced/shipped until enough dealers requested them.  (Sounds like an OPGI story.) Anyway after those conversations I called James at Bestoffercounts and left a message for him to call me.  I then talked to Steve at CARS and told him the story.  He said that they ordered some but got the wrong product.  After sometime, he concluded that they perhaps did not have a good description of the air cleaner.  After some more discussion, he said that if they knew what to look for, they might be able to come up with something.  I took a bunch of pictures of one of mine and texted them to him.  As well as the WIX part number.  I’m now waiting to hear back and see if anything will be done.  I’ll keep everyone informed as I get new information. Keep your fingers crossed. 🤞 It’s my opinion that CARS would like to carry them once they’re sure they can get the right product.  

[mrsuggestion]

Isn't the part # 42092?

[BulldogDriver]

Ed,

Kudos to you! I tried want you have accomplished.
 

James and myself were looking at options if Wix weren’t going to make them any longer.

 

If the issue is not enough orders for the filter then maybe the members should place orders now so Wix will get moving on production. I’ll get this info out to the Cadillac and Oldsmobile club so they can help with this. 

 

Ray

[RivNut]

23 minutes ago, mrsuggestion said:

Isn't the part # 42092?

It might be. I just repeated the number that The Turbinator posted in the first post.on this page.  I’ll check it out and if I’m wrong, I’ll let Steve at CARS know.

[RivNut]

Bulldog driver,

 

Im glad you caught that. Should have checked it first rather than copying.  I’ll let Steve know and if/when James gets back to me, I’ll have the correct information for film.  42092 is correct.

[Rocks Rod & Custom]

These are filter numbers for the pancake style air filter housings

 

[gungeey]

Clarks lists them in their latest catalog. 

[RivNut]

I talked to James at Bestoffercounts for some time yesterday.  He’s had these air filters on back order for longer than he can remember.  He said that after Covid a lot of companies were bought and sold.  The larger acquiring companies are in for big profits.  As an example he told me that one company would make a certain item but only if they could produce enough of the product to put one item in every retail outlet in the country.  Just think how many individual NAPA, AutoZone, AdvanceAuto, and O’Reilly stores there are in the US.  It’s staggering what’s happening across the corporate world.  Basically what it boils down to is unless you have one of these and use it only for show purposes, there aren’t going to be anymore.  

[NTX5467]

Unfortunately, that "reality" has been around for ages, just that NOW it is affecting many in the old car market.  We all might think "They need to build some more of them for us", as we each might know 5-10 people who need that part.  Then multiply that by several times, and it all seems to make sense to US.  Only thing is that at the producer level, that 100 pieces that we might know could be needed or desired takes a bunch of time and money to orchestrate.  Of course, many of the set-ups on the line would take about the same time and effort as if they were changing to another filter product already in production.  Hopefully, all they'd have to do is to input information into a computer and it just happens.

 

Then there is the printing of the boxes, which could be another set of data to input into another computer.  So, theoretically, they could have the desired items up and running in minutes.  For little real difference from what was already going on in production.

 

To me, the real issue might be that "flange" on the top of the filter.  Might it be better to design and 3D-print a "spacer" of the correct outer diameter, the correct inner diameter, and thickness to use a normal filter with?  Where the normal filter was of the correct diameter, but just a bit shorter, to allow for the thickness of the flange to be placed on top of it, to look like a correct OEM filter?

 

Perhaps there might be a smaller filter entity which could produce the filters other than WIX?  But we might still end up with the "sales volume over how many years" issue.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

Edited August 30, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[BulldogDriver]

Actually the flange isn’t the big problem with this air filter. If you could find a filter that was the some diameter and height it would be usable. Only difference would be the air coming into the air cleaner would be around the perimeter and the snorkel which should be less restrictive. The carb/intake are still sealed from contamination. 
 

I have been looking for a filter that met the specs of the original without the “lip” with no luck. If one does exist then that could be a solution to the problem. These air cleaners are unusual with their low wide profile. 
 

Having said this I recently ordered 2 filters from Cars to get the back order number high enough so Wix would get to making some of these. Well they are saying that the order has shipped. I don’t know who the manufacturer is of the filters but if they are truly shipped, it will be the first in over a year. 
 

Ray

[RivNut]

2 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

Unfortunately, that "reality" has been around for ages, just that NOW it is affecting many in the old car market.  We all might think "They need to build some more of them for us", as we each might know 5-10 people who need that part.  Then multiply that by several times, and it all seems to make sense to US.  Only thing is that at the producer level, that 100 pieces that we might know could be needed or desired takes a bunch of time and money to orchestrate.  Of course, many of the set-ups on the line would take about the same time and effort as if they were changing to another filter product already in production.  Hopefully, all they'd have to do is to input information into a computer and it just happens.

 

Then there is the printing of the boxes, which could be another set of data to input into another computer.  So, theoretically, they could have the desired items up and running in minutes.  For little real difference from what was already going on in production.

What might

To me, the real issue might be that "flange" on the top of the filter.  Might it be better to design and 3D-print a "spacer" of the correct outer diameter, the correct inner diameter, and thickness to use a normal filter with?  Where the normal filter was of the correct diameter, but just a bit shorter, to allow for the thickness of the flange to be placed on top of it, to look like a correct OEM filter?

 

Perhaps there might be a smaller filter entity which could produce the filters other than WIX?  But we might still end up with the "sales volume over how many years" issue.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

James was saying that minimum amounts range from 1,000 to 5,000 units. I doubt if there are that many 63 & 64 Rivieras still running.

[BulldogDriver]

Probably be hard to get to those numbers even with the Cadillacs and Olds that used that filter. 
 

Ray

[NTX5467]

5 hours ago, RivNut said:

James was saying that minimum amounts range from 1,000 to 5,000 units. I doubt if there are that many 63 & 64 Rivieras still running.

Other than not having "the flap", what other filters will fit that housing?  Just curious.

 

NTX5467

[BulldogDriver]

None that I have been able to find. They are so wide that nothing seems to be close. Only ran in Gen 1 Rivieras, 59/60 Cadillacs, and I think it was 59 Oldsmobile. 
 

Ray

[RivNut]

Rough measurements (without the lip) are basically 16” x 3”. There are a few after market elements with those dimensions.  James @ Bestoffercounts and I were discussing that. A filter without the lip would still work but there would be a gap around the diameter of the lid. 

[BulldogDriver]

Ed,

 

What elements have you found with those dimensions?  The ID would need to be 13 3/4”. 
 

Ray

[avgwarhawk]

43 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Rough measurements (without the lip) are basically 16” x 3”. There are a few after market elements with those dimensions.  James @ Bestoffercounts and I were discussing that. A filter without the lip would still work but there would be a gap around the diameter of the lid. 

Where is the gap? Between the top of the filter and lid?  If so would self adhesive weather stripping work to fill the gap? 

[RivNut]

  The breather is a two piece unit.The outer diameter of lid is less than the inner diameter of the base. The lip in question fills the gap.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by RivNut (see edit history)

[RivNut]

3 hours ago, BulldogDriver said:

Ed,

 

What elements have you found with those dimensions?  The ID would need to be 13 3/4”. 
 

Ray

We're talking about the outside diameter

Edited August 30, 2023 by RivNut (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

12 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

Unfortunately, that "reality" has been around for ages, just that NOW it is affecting many in the old car market.  We all might think "They need to build some more of them for us", as we each might know 5-10 people who need that part.  Then multiply that by several times, and it all seems to make sense to US.  Only thing is that at the producer level, that 100 pieces that we might know could be needed or desired takes a bunch of time and money to orchestrate.  Of course, many of the set-ups on the line would take about the same time and effort as if they were changing to another filter product already in production.  Hopefully, all they'd have to do is to input information into a computer and it just happens.

So, what was K&N's business model? Seems to me they were the most flexible. Producing low volume for numerous applications. I say that because they touted their filters were washable and their revenue would be cans of filter oil. I say "were" because they moved from Southern California to Texas and dumped a lot of their molds (mentioned in the top of this post).

 

My research has the same conclusion, nothing comes close, even w/o a Lip.

Question: What diameter is the element for the 2X4 air cleaner? If the same, stacking two would be too high? Does it have the "Lip"?

[BulldogDriver]

I checked the dimensions of a 2x4 carb air cleaner and they are not the same. Don’t remember exactly what the difference was but it wouldn’t work for a single carb unit. 
 

Ed could you give an example of the aftermarket filters you referred to in your previous post? I have looked multiple times for something that would replace a Wix 42092 with no joy. 
 

Ray

[RivNut]

Allstar performance ALL26028.  First non sponsored item that shows up when you Google “16” x 3” automotive air filter.”  That’s the first one, others show up as well. Most are for open element aftermarket air cleaners.
 

Edited August 30, 2023 by RivNut (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

On 2/23/2023 at 2:34 PM, rapom said:

The picture shows my old one along with the new one.

 

Hopefully they have the right ones.

 

Sorry for any trouble this may have caused for any of you guys.

Rapom never followed-up on how he faired. Would be nice if he could share the P/N and dimensions of that incorrect element if he still has it.

 

However, the incorrect element does appear to be for the 2X4 pancake air cleaner. This element is still available and has the "Lip".

Still need to confirm OD/ID dimensions. If the same, why not fabricate a spacer to raise this element up to the Air Cleaner Lid? The 3" element is supposedly oversized for our Nailheads mentioned elsewhere.

 

https://www.baldwinfiltersrus.com/baldwin-pa631-air-element-filter.html

 

 

Need to verify below:

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

I found a WIX webpage which has the filters by size listings.  in the "3 inches tall" listing, it came up with 46941 R and Q part number listings.  From their specs, .06" smaller ID than the 42092 filter.  BUT 3.76" tall.  I could not get the page to work past the 2nd page, for some reason.

 

The WIX listing also mentioned " '65-'66 GS and '65-'67 Skylark" as applications.  Plus the '59-'50 Cadillacs and '59 Oldsmobiles.

 

FWIW,

NTX5467

Edited August 30, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

when i sent these pictures to James. I didn't take one of the OD of the bottom but itbis 16". No reason a 16" x 3" element will not fit in the base of the breather.

[XframeFX]

7 minutes ago, NTX5467 said:

From their specs, .06" smaller ID than the 42092 filter.

Thanks, you progressed further. My research could not find anything that came close.

 

In desperation, I'd purchase the 2X4 element to chop just for the Lip. Again, IF the diameters are the same. But then I'd use the whole element with a spacer.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[RivNut]

I just finished some research into the air filters made for automobiles. There were five listed. One, Donaldson, is in the US. Three are located in Germany, and one in Italy.

[Craig Balzer]

19 hours ago, XframeFX said:

Thanks, you progressed further. My research could not find anything that came close.

Try this site

https://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/FilterBySize.aspx

[RivNut]

You’re not going to find anything designed for a certain car. The only 16” filters are aftermarket filters.  Probably designed for open element dirt track racers.  
 

[NTX5467]

The common 3" tall filter, as above, is a 14x3 filter, originally in Chevy HP cars of the later 1960s to earlier 1970s.  Think Z/28s and Corvette LT-1 and L82 cars.  The factory air filter bases were stamped of thicker metal and go 1" lower down over the carb than the pictured aftermarket versions (pictured above).  Fitted specifically for the Holley 3310 (with "race bowls") and a divorced choke.  In reality, the aftermarket knock-offs probably put more air into the carburetors as that additional inch higher is also space between the top of the air cleaner and the choke housing.

 

Underhood styling was important, in the later 1950s.  Air cleaners were an important part of that, too.  Bigger engines needed more air, so larger air filter housings resulted, to replace the earlier oil bath air cleaners.  Fords did this well, but also had a small diameter air filter in the middle of that big air cleaner housing.  The big air cleaner housing for which an air filter element is now being sought was a part of this deal, too, but with a specific air filter which the lower car lines did not use, by observation.

 

The OTHER side of this deal is not to unnecessarily throw out a used air filter for these vehicles!  Do what we used to do back then, by blowing out the accumulated dirt with an air hose from the inside out, after tapping them on a workbench.  Re-use rather than not.

 

All things considered, if there are some new ones to be found, find and stash them for future use.  Use sparingly, too.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Edited August 31, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

I’m going to put everyone’s suspicions at ease. I ordered a 16” x 3” air filter from Amazon.  I’ll see how well it fits in a 63/64 breather. If it fits or doesn’t, I’ll post some pictures and let everyone know.

[BulldogDriver]

So my order from Cars came in today and……….. filters are for the 2x4 barrel air cleaner. It’s what I expected and will have them returned. 
 

I personally think that Ed’s idea is going to be the most logical solution for an air filter. I would not rely on WIX as this is a nuisance thing to them and as they are now a German owned company I can’t see them having any vested interest in our cars. 
 

My next step is what Ed has already done. Truly hope this will be the answer.

 

Ray

[RivNut]

I got the 16” x 3” air filter from Amazon today.  Here are some pictures of the filter in the breather assembly.  The filter fits into the bottom just fine. The lid centers on the filter leaving about a  1/4” or less opening between the top and the body of the filter.  The filter is secure between the bottom and the lid so no unfiltered air will reach the carburetor.  The small gap reminds me of when guys with pickup trucks used to flip the lid on this air cleaners to allow a little more air to reach the carb claiming a slight power increase.

 

[RivNut]

Here’s a link to the filter.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003BZYYSU?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

 

 

[Seafoam65]

That looks pretty darn good........if I owned one of these cars I would stock up on that one from Amazon.

[EmTee]

Maybe cut some 3/16" (or 1/4"?) vacuum hose to length so that it fills the gap and is held in place by the lid?  Or leave it open and enjoy the sound of the AFB gulping air at WOT!